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  • Hawk Moth says in the Origins Part 2 / Stoneheart pt. 2 something about his secret dream. Now the question is, what does he really want?

    Ultimate power is a typical ambition for a villain, simply for the pleasure of it. It's seemingly been assumed that that is the reason he wants the two most powerful miraculouses. But the Origins episode came out as one of the last in Season 1, not counting Volpina. This is his ending speech for Part 2: "This is just the beginning, Ladybug. You and Cat Noir may have won this battle, but I will win the war. I will get your miraculouses. I will get the absolute power! And then my secret dream will come true!"

    So what does he want?

    Season 2 Episode 1, the Collector, revealed his identity to be Gabriel Agreste. Adrien mentioned in "Adrien's Double Life" that Gabriel hasn't been the same since his wife disappeared. Although it's rare to see much emotion from Gabriel, it's obvious that he deeply loved and cared for his wife. According to a number of facts and quotes, she disappeared a little less than a year ago on an overseas trip with him to Tibet, which was the same trip he came across the spell book, the Moth miraculous, and the Peacock miraculous.

    So here's my theory: he wants to "change the past" and get his wife back. (as said in Dark Owl) But here's the problem: if he changes that, something else will happen in return. There's even a possibility that if he somehow wins and brings her back, Adrien would disappear. That's my thought; you guys can let me know if either you agree or have another idea.

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    • I believe if he did bring his wife back, he wouldn't lose Adrien but he would lose the person he fell in love with. But his secret dream has to be to bring back his wife. He has everything else already. 

      My theory is, he gets the two miraculouses and brings back his wife and the person to save the miraculouses is going to be Queen Bee. His wife will become La Peon and since he still loves his wife, he will listen to anything she says.

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    • Hmmm... good idea, but I've been thinking about Nathalie ending up as Le Paon.

      However, you have a very good point and I will keep it in mind. :)

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    • I'm still unsure it has to do with his wife, but frankly I'm tired of hearing that over and over again, so that may be why. She may be part of it, but here's the problem I have with "it's to get his wife back":

      First thing: Mrs Agreste is said to be missing, not dead. Adrien acts as if she's passed away, like he's getting over the grief of his loss, but Gabriel does not act this way. He hardly seems to miss her. Every time he's looked at her painting, he's been looking at his safe and the entrance to his lair. When he looks at her picture in the locket, there is nothing to indicate he misses her in his voice. Indeed, he speaks as he always does. Were she missing, he need only akumatise a psychic of some kind. Grant them heroic psychic powers and in exchange, ask them to tell him where his wife is. Considering how the Moth Miraculous seems able to give out any kind of power, this doesn't seem like something he just can't do. But like I said, he doesn't exactly act like she's dead, either. It's highly possible she's not actually missing, nor dead, and Gabriel knows precisely where she is. However, whatever she's doing necessitates that Adrien be told she's missing, that she disappeared, to keep him out of it. It's possible it relates to the Miraculouses.

      Second thing: Gabriel had the Miraculouses for quite some time after she disappeared and didn't use them. He didn't use them until Adrien, who acts as if his mother is dead or never coming back, had already had more than enough time to go through the five stages of grief and just miss his mother. If he really wanted to use the Ladybug and Black Cat Miraculouses, then he should have used the Moth Miraculous a long time ago, but he didn't. He used the Miraculous to draw out the Ladybug and Black Cat, he says as much in "Origins". He knew using the Moth for evil would draw them out. If he knows that, then why didn't he use the Moth's power before? He implies he already knows Nooroo's powers, but we never see him talk to Nooroo before, nor does it appear he could have. Wayzz doesn't detect Nooroo's power before then, though he may have only detected it once Hawk Moth suited up. However, that does imply Gabriel could have gotten the information from the book, not Nooroo and still raises the question of why he didn't use the power long before.

      Two-A: Point two gives us two interesting additional points. The first is that Gabriel did not use the Miraculous before September, even though it's had to have been months. So, whatever caused him to want to use the Miraculouses seems to have happened in August.

      Two-B: If Gabriel didn't get his information from Nooroo but from the Book, someone either read the book for him or, more likely, taught Gabriel how to read the book. This may mean Master Fu is not the last guardian after all. (added note: what if Nathalie is descended from a former guardian and can read the text, and that's why she's allowed in on things?)

      Third thing: Gabriel tells Adrien and Marinette what sounds like two different stories about how he obtained the Miraculous book in the first place. To Marinette, he says that he found the book while overseas with his wife. To Adrien, he says the book was the last thing Mrs Agreste ever gave him before she disappeared. Unless she knew the significance of the book, it doesn't make sense that Gabriel would find the book, give it to his wife, and then she would give it back to him right before she disappeared. So he's either lying, or Mrs Agreste also knows exactly what the Miraculouses are. I'm inclined to the former, because there's no evidence Mrs Agreste knows about the Miraculouses and it sounded like Gabriel might have been trying to guilt-trip Adrien, but it could be the latter if the end of Point One is true.

      Irrelevant thing but thing I need to bring up: Gabriel may not have the actual Peacock Miraculous. Not only does Master Fu not say they should be in the same place when saying the book is with Hawk Moth and how this adds to Hawk Moth's danger level, but there's all of this, too. The only evidence there is to Gabriel having the real Miraculous is that the green brooch is shown in the opening, but that is in very direct contradiction to the pattern established with every single other Miraculous so far (and everything mentioned on the entry I linked). For Mrs Agreste to be Le Paon, she should already have the Miraculous. If she does, why has she not used it? Why did she not use it to save herself?

      The use of her photo in the locket could be merely as an identifier for who Hawk Moth is, rather than what his goals are. It is not, after all, in the brooch, since the brooch is much, much, much too small to be the locket.

      I'm guessing it probably is his wife, but at the same time, why then does it take him so long to use the Miraculouses? He doesn't seem to really have a plan aside from "get the Miraculouses and make a wish", after all.

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    • True. I admit you have a good point, but we also know that Hawk Moth uses seemingly the same tone of voice for everything, since he never leaves his lair as Hawk Moth. But you see the sign​ of affection and almost longing in it when he closes it and starts rubbing it. (I speak from experience.) Also he'd only just gotten the Moth miraculous when his wife disappeared; I have a very possible theory that he found the book and the miraculouses on the same trip she vanished. (did I say that already...?) Anyway, that would be the reason he hadn't used it before; it was because he'd only just gotten it.

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    • Crazyatady15 wrote:
      True. I admit you have a good point, but we also know that Hawk Moth uses seemingly the same tone of voice for everything, since he never leaves his lair as Hawk Moth. But you see the sign​ of affection and almost longing in it when he closes it and starts rubbing it. (I speak from experience.) Also he'd only just gotten the Moth miraculous when his wife disappeared; I have a very possible theory that he found the book and the miraculouses on the same trip she vanished. (did I say that already...?) Anyway, that would be the reason he hadn't used it before; it was because he'd only just gotten it.

      Like I said, though- the locket could be nothing more than an indicator of his identity, not his goals.

      Well, I don't think that's quite right. She can't have vanished just prior to that, because Adrien has already had time to get over her disappearance and Hawk Moth addresses Nooroo like he hasn't talked much to him- "Your Miraculous, remind me of its powers again" and Nooroo waffles between happy and afraid, so he hasn't been around Hawk Moth much. After "The Collector" I'm not sure she actually vanished on the trip, but I agree she probably did, or disappeared soon after. Due to how Adrien acts about his mom being gone (he has no hope she'll return and just misses her, and he seems to think she's dead considering how he's never worried about her, just sad she's gone and he just parrots what he was told- she "disappeared"), Mrs Agreste had to have disappeared months prior. Since that's true and Gabriel says he found the book when on a trip with his wife, meaning she was around when he found the Moth Miraculous, then ergo, Gabriel didn't use the Miraculous for some time after finding it.

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    • WE LITERALLY GET TO SEE HER BODY IN QUEEN WASP!

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    • Yeah, but this post is nearly 10 months old, we hadn't seen Queen Wasp back then.

      Also, please remember to mark your spoilers.

      If you want to continue this discussion, please make a new forum post about it.

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    • SteveCrafts2K wrote: WE LITERALLY GET TO SEE HER BODY IN QUEEN WASP!

      Yep! I didn't know that when I made this post, though. xD

      I made another post talking about Emilie's revealed location, much more recently. Here's the link:

      https://miraculousladybug.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:149624#34

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    • A FANDOM user
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