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  • This is the official discussion thread for S2E8, "Dark Owl".

    Post and share your thoughts on the episode here. You will not need to mark spoilers in this thread.

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    • P.S: Apparently, yesterday's episode, "Gigantitan" did not have an English dub (due to not being dubbed yet, possibly) so today's episode might or not have an English dub so please be alert!

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    • Will it air soon because it’s December 5

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    • the episode was really good, especially the part where they detransformed! now the kwami's at least know the identity of the other's holder. 

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    • Although I havent watched this episode yet, Im very eager to see it when I do have the chance. The Dark Owl seems to be quite distinctive and his akumatization attire is very interesting. Overall, Im excited to see how this episode turns out and see how Mr. Damocles gets akumatized.

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    • can someone plz give me the link or what website has the episode in it ????? i dont mind bout ther language :)

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    • Kc-undercover123 wrote:
      can someone plz give me the link or what website has the episode in it ????? i dont mind bout ther language :)

      This wiki doesn't allow sharing links to the episode on this wiki unless it's an official source, which there isn't one for this. You'll have to look elsewhere for it or ask on a different website.

      I haven't seen this episode yet, but I'm eager to once I have the time. The season has been impressive on giving surprising information or moments in the episodes that people weren't expecting. While I'm starting to get concerned that all of the huge changes are going to be crammed completely into the second half of this season (unless not all of them end up in this season), I appreciate these moments that have these unexpected changes in character's knowledge and interactions. I'm curious to see how Tikki and Plagg's knowledge about each other affects them, especially when hearing about it from their human partners. I like the smaller details too; I'm happy we got some sort of look into Alya's room.

      Also, while I need to watch it and have a translation, it doesn't sound like Mr. Damocles knew about Knightowl beforehand. I guess the man is a psychic for ripping off an owl-themed non-Parisian superhero.

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    • Luckily, I understand a bit of Spanish, so I could pretty much get through the episode while enjoying it.

      But BOY, this was a good one! I won't say any spoilers yet, but this episode definitely had me on edge (particularly that ONE SCENE IN THE CRATE HOLY MOLY). It seems like each villain gets closer and closer to retrieving the Miraculous (or they defy Hawkmoth more and more...). I hope they keep up with this trend, it was great!

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    • A summary of the episode as I have seen it so far:

      I really miss Adam West, you guys.

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    • On the topic of the episode...


      Betting $10 that Plagg is gonna reveal that Ladybug is Marinette.


      also whyy thomas do you have to troll us with that crate scene

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    • MeowGatoLover wrote:
      On the topic of the episode...


      Betting $10 that Plagg is gonna reveal that Ladybug is Marinette.


      also whyy thomas do you have to troll us with that crate scene

      I'm with ya bud.  There's no way that loud mouth can keep a secret.  Well... there's Adrien's, but he's indisposed when he's Cat Noir.

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    • Whoa! Wow! Okay!

      So this episode confirms a few things.

      One, that an akumatised object doesn't need to be on the person who got akumatised.

      Two, that Ladybug's detransformation when one earring is removed is slow, not instant.

      Three, that Tikki and Plagg cannot sense each other.

      Man this episode was awesome, and the references to the Adam West era of Batman just made it so much better. Neither Tikki nor Plagg spoke in this episode that I remember. They made little noises, but that was all.

      I'm actually kind of surprised- I long ago predicted they'd get locked in a shipping crate like that and something like that would happen, but I was not expecting it to actually happen.

      Tikki and Plagg knowing is interesting. While Tikki is unlikely to drop the ball, and Plagg is, I wonder if things won't play out differently, with Tikki accidentally letting it slip while Plagg is weirdly good about keeping the secret.

      I really, really miss Adam West now.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Whoa! Wow! Okay!

      So this episode confirms a few things.

      One, that an akumatised object doesn't need to be on the person who got akumatised.

      Two, that Ladybug's detransformation when one earring is removed is slow, not instant.

      Three, that Tikki and Plagg cannot sense each other.

      Man this episode was awesome, and the references to the Adam West era of Batman just made it so much better. Neither Tikki nor Plagg spoke in this episode that I remember. They made little noises, but that was all.

      I'm actually kind of surprised- I long ago predicted they'd get locked in a shipping crate like that and something like that would happen, but I was not expecting it to actually happen.

      Tikki and Plagg knowing is interesting. While Tikki is unlikely to drop the ball, and Plagg is, I wonder if things won't play out differently, with Tikki accidentally letting it slip while Plagg is weirdly good about keeping the secret.

      I really, really miss Adam West now.

      No matter how I look at it I don't think it'll end well if one of them find out first... I mean if Marinette finds out first she'll start fliriting with Cat Noir and/or stumbling over her words like she normally does and failing to concintrate on the mission.  But if ADRIEN finds out first he's going to start flirting with Marinette and she's going to love it at first (Chloe not so much) but when she finds out she's going to realise the only reason he started liking her was because he knew she was Ladybug.  And I don't think that she'll like that info... I think the least worse scenario is if they find out roughly at the same time.  Although that has some of the problems of both, it is slightly better than one of them separately.

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    • TheBlackDemon1996 wrote:

      No matter how I look at it I don't think it'll end well if one of them find out first... I mean if Marinette finds out first she'll start fliriting with Cat Noir and/or stumbling over her words like she normally does and failing to concintrate on the mission.  But if ADRIEN finds out first he's going to start flirting with Marinette and she's going to love it at first (Chloe not so much) but when she finds out she's going to realise the only reason he started liking her was because he knew she was Ladybug.  And I don't think that she'll like that info... I think the least worse scenario is if they find out roughly at the same time.  Although that has some of the problems of both, it is slightly better than one of them separately.

      Well... No I don't think that's right.

      "The Gamer, "Volpina", and "Riposte" all feature Ladybug acting perfectly fine around Adrien. She wouldn't get distracted and she already flirts with Cat Noir (albeit without meaning to).

      Adrien is the kind of guy who I think will instead make an effort to get to know Marinette, rather than just immediately start pursuing her. I think, too, he'd be confused because of how different they are and how he seems to only view Marinette as a friend. Finding out she's Ladybug won't change that he only sees Marinette as a friend.

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    • Why haven't they been dubbed in english yet?

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      TheBlackDemon1996 wrote:

      No matter how I look at it I don't think it'll end well if one of them find out first... I mean if Marinette finds out first she'll start fliriting with Cat Noir and/or stumbling over her words like she normally does and failing to concintrate on the mission.  But if ADRIEN finds out first he's going to start flirting with Marinette and she's going to love it at first (Chloe not so much) but when she finds out she's going to realise the only reason he started liking her was because he knew she was Ladybug.  And I don't think that she'll like that info... I think the least worse scenario is if they find out roughly at the same time.  Although that has some of the problems of both, it is slightly better than one of them separately.

      Well... No I don't think that's right.

      "The Gamer, "Volpina", and "Riposte" all feature Ladybug acting perfectly fine around Adrien. She wouldn't get distracted and she already flirts with Cat Noir (albeit without meaning to).

      Adrien is the kind of guy who I think will instead make an effort to get to know Marinette, rather than just immediately start pursuing her. I think, too, he'd be confused because of how different they are and how he seems to only view Marinette as a friend. Finding out she's Ladybug won't change that he only sees Marinette as a friend.

      Not a bad argument, but you can see where I coming from thought right?

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    • Tankengineguy wrote:
      Why haven't they been dubbed in english yet?

      Translation issuses... acting scheduling issuses... some other issuses...

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    • I just heard the English netflix release isn't happening until 2018. Wow.

      Ok, am I the only one who felt like a fan wrote this episode? Because it really REALLY reminds me of all that fanfiction I've been finding all over the place. Ladybug actually loses an earring. The two of them detransform with their eyes closed. Plagg and Tikki interact. It also disproves a lot of fan fiction. (though, honestly, that isn't hard...some of it is ridiculous.) It's been pretty obvious that Plagg didn't know Marinette was Ladybug, but it has seemed like Tikki knew, and now that that is canon I'm looking forward to a bit of Kwami interaction in the future. After all, now that Plagg knows where Tikki is, he might wander off...he has a habit of doing that (Rogercop, anyone?) I don't think he'll say anything to Adrien but I do think his carelessness might cause another Rogercop situation. I'm also predicting a Master Fu appearance in a near-future episode, just because of all these close calls. If Ladybug and Cat Noir have new abilities, they really need to start using them before HM wins.

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    • I loved the Adam West references and the subtle nod to the Incredibles...ok, it wasn't subtle. It was pretty much a parody. It was also interesting that the show used images of Majestia (in Alya's room) and Knight Owl/Birdy from the comic. Also, I find it funny that in the end the town just sort of accepted the idea of having an inept superhero...maybe that will make it easier for them to accept someone like Queen Bee...

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    • English, French or Spanish dub, I have to say, the comedy in Season 2 so far has been top notch. Damocles had me rolling the entire episode, and the other character's reactions to him were equally enjoyable, if not funnier. It's also funny to think just how badly every single one of Hawk Moth's plans have gone in these recent episodes; first Robustus betrays and nearly kills him, then he fals to akumatize the Gorilla and ends up with an out-of-control baby, and now, just as he thought he had finally suceeded, he gets pranked with a fake ring and fake earrings. I almost feel sorry for him, but it's easier to just laugh at his poorly concieved schemes. 

      By far, the biggest affect this episode will have is still Tikki and Plagg seeing each other. The two didn't say a word and somehow they still ended up being the most important characters in the episode. They're definately going to have a hard time holding in the secret, especially with all the irony surrounding their knowledge. 

      Overall, this might become my new favourite episode when it comes out in english. 

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    • TheBlackDemon1996 wrote:

      Not a bad argument, but you can see where I coming from thought right?

      Not really, no. Ladybug has never shown she abandons her duty just because Adrien is there and Adrien has a different attitude than Cat Noir does and he's very considerate. Maybe Adrien will start showing sudden interest in Marinette, maybe, but I really don't see your point of view on Marinette/Ladybug neglecting her duties.

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    • I can't believe Adrien didn't open his eyes. Ugh. This show stresses me out. But Plagg and Tikki knowing should open more doors and story elements, right?

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    • This episode is BY FAR my favorite of the series. It had everything: hilarious moments throughout, a serious yet funny villian, universe expansion, several genuine close calls, a VERY close near-reveal, and plot development (which is ironic given the two affected characters, Tikki and Plagg, didn't say a word the entire episode). Here's hoping the rest of Season 2 is as good as this episode and not like Gigantitan.

      • awaits the large amount of fanfiction that will come out involving this episode*
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    • DarkClaw3 wrote:

      By far, the biggest affect this episode will have is still Tikki and Plagg seeing each other. The two didn't say a word and somehow they still ended up being the most important characters in the episode. They're definately going to have a hard time holding in the secret, especially with all the irony surrounding their knowledge. 

      I dunno... keeping Adrien's identity a secret is one of the few things Plagg actually takes very seriously, and Tikki has always been too polite to simply blurt things out. More likely they're just going to maintain their ignorance of the other's partner until Marinette and Adrien figure it out for themselves.

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    • This is my new favorite episode! As the season goes on, it gets better and better! Plagg's reaction when he sees Tikki was AWESOME!! But if Chat Noir is so eager to know who ladybug is under the mask. Why. Didn't. He. Peek?!? Oh well.

      I noticed in season one, that when Hawkmoth created villains (I am too tired rn too do proper Miraculous terms), it was the same video just with new audio. Now they are putting more effort into each episode, eg. Better villains that very minds of their own, LB and CN having too think outside the box to defeat villains etc.

      My three favorite scenes in this episode was; The Reveal, Hawkmoth and the Fake Miraculouses (is that how you spell it?) and Ladybug and near disaster.

      Watching this in Spanish was interesting, because the only Spanish I know I learned from Dora 😂

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    • Lightbearer Storycraft wrote:
      I just heard the English netflix release isn't happening until 2018. Wow.

      Ok, am I the only one who felt like a fan wrote this episode? Because it really REALLY reminds me of all that fanfiction I've been finding all over the place. Ladybug actually loses an earring. The two of them detransform with their eyes closed. Plagg and Tikki interact. It also disproves a lot of fan fiction. (though, honestly, that isn't hard...some of it is ridiculous.) It's been pretty obvious that Plagg didn't know Marinette was Ladybug, but it has seemed like Tikki knew, and now that that is canon I'm looking forward to a bit of Kwami interaction in the future. After all, now that Plagg knows where Tikki is, he might wander off...he has a habit of doing that (Rogercop, anyone?) I don't think he'll say anything to Adrien but I do think his carelessness might cause another Rogercop situation. I'm also predicting a Master Fu appearance in a near-future episode, just because of all these close calls. If Ladybug and Cat Noir have new abilities, they really need to start using them before HM wins.

      Plagg never wanders far, though. He might visit Tikki in Marinette's purse, but he's not careless enough to go to Marinette's house or anything like that.

      It did feel a little fan-like, but I think that had to do with being one huge reference to the Adam West era of Batman, which is so iconic of him that this isn't the first show to do something like this (Kim Possible had Timothy North AKA the Fearless Ferret, for example. He played Adam West AKA Catman in Fairly Odd Parents! as well. He even named a whole trope on TV Tropes because of it). If he hadn't passed away, I'd immediately begin advocating him to voice the real Knightowl should he appear. But alas, that was not to be.

      Like if you've ever seen the show, it's ridiculous and full of cliches and it's amazing. This episode might have been poking fun at the usual fan ideas for being cliche. Like, the fact that they get stuck in whipped cream and almost have to reveal their identities (sorta) is absolutely something that would happen to Batman and Robin or something in that show.

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    • That was an excellent episode! I wonder how Tikki will react now when she'll hear Marinette swoon over Adrien and being annoyed by Chat's antics only to to think that they are the same person. She would be like, I can't tell her that Adrien is Chat Noir, she would never believe me. First episode Plagg does not eat cheese to recharge, he shares a macaron with Tikki, how cute. Sparrow appears in the comic, sweet! Now confirmed that Marinette needs both earrings to stay Ladybug, kind of a down since she's the only one who has to wear 2 piece of jewelry unlike the others, maybe because the ladybug miraculous is the most powerful, so it was decided to have them both to have the powers so it would make some balance? Dark Owl is pretty neat, I didn't expect the wings thingy.

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    • THESE TWO HAD ONE JOB: TO OPEN THEIR FREAKING EYES.

      Overall, this episode was fantastic, the team that Ladybug and Chat Noir form is wonderful, they are just like an old married couple. How they agree so naturally to work on something together to help Mr.Damocles got me like .. HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

      Okay now, back to the interesting part. The fact that Tikki and Plagg know now the identity of the other partner just made me scream. I just cannot wait to see how the kwamis will now tease Marinette and Adrien about love matters, and with Kagami and Luka coming to the school, it will spice up everything, but I just feel that their love for each other will only grow after the reveal.

      CAN'T. WAIT.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      That was an excellent episode! I wonder how Tikki will react now when she'll hear Marinette swoon over Adrien and being annoyed by Chat's antics only to to think that they are the same person. She would be like, I can't tell her that Adrien is Chat Noir, she would never believe me. First episode Plagg does not eat cheese to recharge, he shares a macaron with Tikki, how cute. Sparrow appears in the comic, sweet! Now confirmed that Marinette needs both earrings to stay Ladybug, kind of a down since she's the only one who has to wear 2 piece of jewelry unlike the others, maybe because the ladybug miraculous is the most powerful, so it was decided to have them both to have the powers so it would make some balance? Dark Owl is pretty neat, I didn't expect the wings thingy.

      I honestly think she'll just giggle over it with the occasional "Oh, Marinette..." "What?" and advising her to give him a chance. There's no way Marinette would take the hint. Then again, I don't think Tikki wants Marinette to know, though things might change now that she knows precisely who Cat Noir is. I'm interested to see how Plagg will react, since he's been really very quiet this season and it's hard to tell if he can actually keep a secret or not. I'm of the opinion he can.

      Well, Astruc said a while back that she needs both earrings to keep the transformation. Dark Owl also takes the earring that Tikki goes into. I guess it's just the downside of her Miraculous being earrings, that she can't keep the transformation otherwise, since she and Cat Noir supposedly have the most powerful ones. Just her powerset is the most useful when akumas are rampaging. Cat Noir might have other powers (like how Ladybug has purification powers) we haven't seen from him that are used to counter some of the other Miraculouses. He might have his own powers of corruption, if he's meant to be Ladybug's total opposite in power. It's interesting how hers fades slowly when she's missing part of her Miraculous, and if she puts the earring back in the detransformation stops. 

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I honestly think she'll just giggle over it with the occasional "Oh, Marinette..." "What?" and advising her to give him a chance. There's no way Marinette would take the hint. Then again, I don't think Tikki wants Marinette to know, though things might change now that she knows precisely who Cat Noir is. I'm interested to see how Plagg will react, since he's been really very quiet this season and it's hard to tell if he can actually keep a secret or not. I'm of the opinion he can.

      Well, Astruc said a while back that she needs both earrings to keep the transformation. Dark Owl also takes the earring that Tikki goes into. I guess it's just the downside of her Miraculous being earrings, that she can't keep the transformation otherwise, since she and Cat Noir supposedly have the most powerful ones. Just her powerset is the most useful when akumas are rampaging. Cat Noir might have other powers (like how Ladybug has purification powers) we haven't seen from him that are used to counter some of the other Miraculouses. He might have his own powers of corruption, if he's meant to be Ladybug's total opposite in power. It's interesting how hers fades slowly when she's missing part of her Miraculous, and if she puts the earring back in the detransformation stops. 

      Maybe Marinette will start to give him a chance if Luka acts like him? He might remind her of Chat Noir? Or maybe she'll start getting jealous when Rena Rouge, Carapace and Queen Bee will join the team, usually she has his full attention, but now he might try to hang out with the others, like with Carapace for some guy time, Rena Rouge because they might start cracking jokes and puns, and Queen Bee because he'll know how to handle her since he handles Chloé pretty well and I doubt her personnality change much when she transforms. Would be intesresting now that it won't be the 2 of them only, they will be a group of five, and that might change her perception of him when she sees how different he acts around the others, since he might treat her differently since he has a crush on her, while the others he doesn't. I don't know? Maybe him keeping Ladybug's identity secret might be the reason he'll be akumatized? I could see it happens, he gets so frustrated that Ladybug sits right behind him and he doesn't see it gets on his nerves so much Plagg will be akumatized? That could be interesting to see too.

      I know he said that, but now we know how it goes for real, she detransforms slowly, not in 2 seconds flat, I find that interesting, since she's the only one with that weakness. I'm eager to see what other powers Chat Noir have, maybe Plagg didn't tell him because they are not necessary, if Ladybug remakes the world, maybe he can destroy it entirely? He destroyed Pixelator's dimension, he might be able to do more if his other power can destroy more than one thing at the time like Cataclysm? Either way I can't wait.

      Dark Owl eyes sure a creepy though. He gets the more animal side of the owl with those big eyes, like Chat Noir eyes.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Maybe Marinette will start to give him a chance if Luka acts like him? He might remind her of Chat Noir? Or maybe she'll start getting jealous when Rena Rouge, Carapace and Queen Bee will join the team, usually she has his full attention, but now he might try to hang out with the others, like with Carapace for some guy time, Rena Rouge because they might start cracking jokes and puns, and Queen Bee because he'll know how to handle her since he handles Chloé pretty well and I doubt her personnality change much when she transforms. Would be intesresting now that it won't be the 2 of them only, they will be a group of five, and that might change her perception of him when she sees how different he acts around the others, since he might treat her differently since he has a crush on her, while the others he doesn't. I don't know? Maybe him keeping Ladybug's identity secret might be the reason he'll be akumatized? I could see it happens, he gets so frustrated that Ladybug sits right behind him and he doesn't see it gets on his nerves so much Plagg will be akumatized? That could be interesting to see too.

      I know he said that, but now we know how it goes for real, she detransforms slowly, not in 2 seconds flat, I find that interesting, since she's the only one with that weakness. I'm eager to see what other powers Chat Noir have, maybe Plagg didn't tell him because they are not necessary, if Ladybug remakes the world, maybe he can destroy it entirely? He destroyed Pixelator's dimension, he might be able to do more if his other power can destroy more than one thing at the time like Cataclysm? Either way I can't wait.

      Dark Owl eyes sure a creepy though. He gets the more animal side of the owl with those big eyes, like Chat Noir eyes.

      Maybe... since Kagami is kind of a mix of Ladybug and Marinette's most positive traits (with the dislike of losing), I think Luka might be a mix of Adrien and Cat Noir's more positive traits. Like, they're both their own characters, but each is a subtle lead to the person they really love. She does hate having to share the spotlight with Volpina, and hated sharing Cat Noir's attention, so you might be right. And I dunno- that thing still doesn't look like Plagg to me.

      Astruc has said Cat Noir's powers would be "even more than extremely dangerous" in the wrong hands, so it's possible. I mean... I think thoses four claw-like markings on the ring are limiting Plagg's power in some capacity, since his Miraculous in the Spellbook doesn't have them, and all other Miraculouses (save for the Peacock) look almost identical to the ones in the chest or in possession of characters. Plagg's ring looks the same, except for the claws on it. And those claws aren't even black, they're grey. I mean it could be nothing and probably is nothing... but I always read into things.

      Yep. His design is really cool, though. But that might be my lifelong love of owls speaking. Good episode. Surprisingly light on the Hawk Moth considering how he's had more screentime as of late.

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    • TheBlackDemon1996 wrote:
      Tankengineguy wrote:
      Why haven't they been dubbed in english yet?
      Translation issuses... acting scheduling issuses... some other issuses...


      It would likely explain the recent delay on netflix.

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    • Dubbing seems to be behind, but it's understandable. Because of this, I'm curious for when past the six episodes know-to-have-English-dubs episodes are released on Disney Channel UK, how long it'll take for the next episode to come out. I guess at least this keeps things interesting or spaced out a bit for the English viewers because the dub isn't caught up with other countries' dubs.

      Because I'm a ridiculous fan of Birdy and haven't watched the episode fully yet, when does he make a pictured cameo? Nonetheless, I love the Batman references. I think it would be interesting to someday have a recurring non-Miraculous superhero in the series, but with Miraculous-based superheroes being the main focus here and the earlier concept idea related to that being scrapped (Quantic Kids), I can't see it happening anytime soon outside of the comic books (out of and in universe) and crossovers with other ZAG Heroez series. However, if Mr. Damocles dressing up as a superhero is all we get for now, I love it. It's fun to see a regular principal be such a superhero fan and dreamer, despite not anywhere near the same level as Ladybug and Cat Noir, and even his aforementioned programming skills come into play with the computer. Speaking of, I wonder whose face that was when the computer was akumatized; it was very noticeably real, making it rather surreal for me.

      Also, hooray for Alya's room! At this point, with it seeming like any major character change into superhero is either in the second half of Season 2 or beyond it, I'm grateful that we've gotten something new with Alya, who has been around this season but hasn't gotten deeper character development than the norm like Chloé did in "Despair Bear". It's good to see Nino too, though I really wish we'd get more of him soon. Who am I to judge yet when I haven't seen the episode wholly yet.

      One more thing that's rather off-topic: "Troublemaker" still hasn't premiered, and it seems like an episode meant for the first half of the season. I think there was two more episodes scheduled for DC Spain later this month, so I'm curious if will be one of those.

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    • Tansyflower wrote: One more thing that's rather off-topic: "Troublemaker" still hasn't premiered, and it seems like an episode meant for the first half of the season. I think there was two more episodes scheduled for DC Spain later this month, so I'm curious if will be one of those.


      The two more episodes was kinda of a misinterpretation from me... I kinda of misread dubbing as airing so no new episodes until January if I'm not mistaken for DC Spain.

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    • Tansyflower wrote:
      Dubbing seems to be behind, but it's understandable. Because of this, I'm curious for when past the six episodes know-to-have-English-dubs episodes are released on Disney Channel UK, how long it'll take for the next episode to come out. I guess at least this keeps things interesting or spaced out a bit for the English viewers because the dub isn't caught up with other countries' dubs.

      Because I'm a ridiculous fan of Birdy and haven't watched the episode fully yet, when does he make a pictured cameo? Nonetheless, I love the Batman references. I think it would be interesting to someday have a recurring non-Miraculous superhero in the series, but with Miraculous-based superheroes being the main focus here and the earlier concept idea related to that being scrapped (Quantic Kids), I can't see it happening anytime soon outside of the comic books (out of and in universe) and crossovers with other ZAG Heroez series. However, if Mr. Damocles dressing up as a superhero is all we get for now, I love it. It's fun to see a regular principal be such a superhero fan and dreamer, despite not anywhere near the same level as Ladybug and Cat Noir, and even his aforementioned programming skills come into play with the computer. Speaking of, I wonder whose face that was when the computer was akumatized; it was very noticeably real, making it rather surreal for me.

      Also, hooray for Alya's room! At this point, with it seeming like any major character change into superhero is either in the second half of Season 2 or beyond it, I'm grateful that we've gotten something new with Alya, who has been around this season but hasn't gotten deeper character development than the norm like Chloé did in "Despair Bear". It's good to see Nino too, though I really wish we'd get more of him soon. Who am I to judge yet when I haven't seen the episode wholly yet.

      One more thing that's rather off-topic: "Troublemaker" still hasn't premiered, and it seems like an episode meant for the first half of the season. I think there was two more episodes scheduled for DC Spain later this month, so I'm curious if will be one of those.

      Yes unless I'm mistaken, we'd no word of dubbing beginning until September, yes? If that's true, then that explains things to some degree.

      I wonder if Knightowl won't be the only reference we see. He seems to exist on some level like Majestia (whose poster noticeably appeared in this episode in Alya's room), but I wonder if they're purely comic book characters or if they're real people. (taps chin) Though, it would be most interesting to see a super villain who has the power to bring comic book characters to life or else, trap people in comics. I think something like that is about the only way we'll see Ladybug actually take an akuma attack fully.

      Actually... now you bring up that episode, the events of this episode suddenly cast the events of that one in a different light. We should be able to tell which one comes first chronologically.

      Ohhhh.

      You know what? I just thought of something, albeit an unlikely something.

      I wonder if the (in)famous balcony scene is a result of Plag blabbing? It's either a result of Marinette being upset by the events of "Troublemaker" or Plagg blabbed to Adrien about who Ladybug is. Or it's both. Do we know for sure what episode that balcony thing is in?

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Maybe... since Kagami is kind of a mix of Ladybug and Marinette's most positive traits (with the dislike of losing), I think Luka might be a mix of Adrien and Cat Noir's more positive traits. Like, they're both their own characters, but each is a subtle lead to the person they really love. She does hate having to share the spotlight with Volpina, and hated sharing Cat Noir's attention, so you might be right. And I dunno- that thing still doesn't look like Plagg to me.

      Astruc has said Cat Noir's powers would be "even more than extremely dangerous" in the wrong hands, so it's possible. I mean... I think thoses four claw-like markings on the ring are limiting Plagg's power in some capacity, since his Miraculous in the Spellbook doesn't have them, and all other Miraculouses (save for the Peacock) look almost identical to the ones in the chest or in possession of characters. Plagg's ring looks the same, except for the claws on it. And those claws aren't even black, they're grey. I mean it could be nothing and probably is nothing... but I always read into things.

      Yep. His design is really cool, though. But that might be my lifelong love of owls speaking. Good episode. Surprisingly light on the Hawk Moth considering how he's had more screentime as of late.

      Indeed Kagami is, but maybe more reserved than Marinette and more aggressive when she's fighting/fencing. She looks stoic and more calm, although stubborn too, but more in a got a goal in mind will do anything no matter what at full strenght way. Indeed. Plagg loves secrets, that's why he phased in Gabriel's safe and went to look inside it, because he wanted to know, but maybe he'll just tease Adrien so much about it that Adrien will get tired and snap at him, causing him to be upset and get akumatized? Plagg does get quite dramatic when he doesn't get what he want, so him being snapped at by Adrien might hurt him?

      Of course they would, they could destroy anything they want, buildings, rails for trains, planes, and I don't want to think what it does on people. Adrien is nice, so he doesn't destroy anything unless he has to, and it's pretty powerful, if it can destroy a dimension, imagine what it could do in evil hands. Maybe it's a clue, or it's an animation error or color error, who knows. But it looks better in green, it goes with Plagg and Adrien's eyes.

      Indeed. Have you seen Mistontli? First female Chat Noir! She's awesome! We can die in peace now! Just kidding, we'll be able to die in piece when the show is over, and we've still got a long way to go, haha!

      Special mention for the holographic bus full of animals, who saw the praying gorilla?

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    • ShinoharaHiroko wrote:
      THESE TWO HAD ONE JOB: TO OPEN THEIR FREAKING EYES.

      Overall, this episode was fantastic, the team that Ladybug and Chat Noir form is wonderful, they are just like an old married couple. How they agree so naturally to work on something together to help Mr.Damocles got me like .. HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

      Okay now, back to the interesting part. The fact that Tikki and Plagg know now the identity of the other partner just made me scream. I just cannot wait to see how the kwamis will now tease Marinette and Adrien about love matters, and with Kagami and Luka coming to the school, it will spice up everything, but I just feel that their love for each other will only grow after the reveal.

      CAN'T. WAIT.

      Yeah I didn't understand why Adrien wasn't tempted to open his eyes a little.  I mean he has more reason to, right?  I'm pretty sure, although I could be wrong, that Ladybug was the one who made up the "we can't tell each other our secret identities" rule.  I mean they waited a long time for their kwami's to make the fake miraculous and for Dark Owl to fall for the trap before changing back.  Not to mention waiting for their powers to recharge.  I mean if I was in Adrien's shoes I'd give in to the temptation and peak a little after at least 2 minutes... But then again that's just me.

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    • I just found out that the production code for this episode is 213, meaning this is technically the "mid-season finale". This probably means the five episodes of the first half of the season that haven't been released yet will make no mention of the Kwamies knowing the heroes' identities. This also probably means none of the new heroes will make their debut until the second half of the season (perhaps in response to Black Owl?). The only significant plot events likely to take place during these episodes are Luka's introduction, Lila's reappearance and more redeeming character development for Chloe.

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    • Coupon Boy wrote: I just found out that the production code for this episode is 213, meaning this is technically the "mid-season finale". This probably means the five episodes of the first half of the season that haven't been released yet will make no mention of the Kwamies knowing the heroes' identities. This also probably means none of the new heroes will make their debut until the second half of the season (perhaps in response to Black Owl?). The only significant plot events likely to take place during these episodes are Luka's introduction, Lila's reappearance and more redeeming character development for Chloe.

      This episode makes sense being a "mid-season finale" and the new miraculous being introduced after Dark Owl being so close makes sense. Maybe Mariette goes to Master Fu (That's his name right?) and tells him about how she nearly lost her miraculous. Then he might bring in a new miraculous. I personally think that they wouldn't be introduced at the same time, but over a several episodes. If this is true, we also might see more of Alya, considering she will be the Fox miraculous holder.

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    • Coupon Boy wrote:
      I just found out that the production code for this episode is 213, meaning this is technically the "mid-season finale". This probably means the five episodes of the first half of the season that haven't been released yet will make no mention of the Kwamies knowing the heroes' identities. This also probably means none of the new heroes will make their debut until the second half of the season (perhaps in response to Black Owl?). The only significant plot events likely to take place during these episodes are Luka's introduction, Lila's reappearance and more redeeming character development for Chloe.

      I'm not entirely sure that's true... that might just be the order it was made.  They could have made this one last because they wanted to get the scene right.  It's hard to tell because it seems Thomas can't make up his mind on which order these episodes go in...

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Indeed Kagami is, but maybe more reserved than Marinette and more aggressive when she's fighting/fencing. She looks stoic and more calm, although stubborn too, but more in a got a goal in mind will do anything no matter what at full strenght way. Indeed. Plagg loves secrets, that's why he phased in Gabriel's safe and went to look inside it, because he wanted to know, but maybe he'll just tease Adrien so much about it that Adrien will get tired and snap at him, causing him to be upset and get akumatized? Plagg does get quite dramatic when he doesn't get what he want, so him being snapped at by Adrien might hurt him?

      Of course they would, they could destroy anything they want, buildings, rails for trains, planes, and I don't want to think what it does on people. Adrien is nice, so he doesn't destroy anything unless he has to, and it's pretty powerful, if it can destroy a dimension, imagine what it could do in evil hands. Maybe it's a clue, or it's an animation error or color error, who knows. But it looks better in green, it goes with Plagg and Adrien's eyes.

      Indeed. Have you seen Mistontli? First female Chat Noir! She's awesome! We can die in peace now! Just kidding, we'll be able to die in piece when the show is over, and we've still got a long way to go, haha!

      Special mention for the holographic bus full of animals, who saw the praying gorilla?

      I'm not looking for reasons WHY Plagg could be akumatised. The thing you're saying is Plagg does not look like Plagg to me.

      I love how in "Dark Cupid, Cat Noir says he's "always wondered" what Cataclysm does on people. Most likely this is true, but it's always been in fear. Poor kid.

      Yeah. I started her page but then it disappeared into the ethos and I'm still upset.

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    • TheBlackDemon1996 wrote:
      ShinoharaHiroko wrote:
      THESE TWO HAD ONE JOB: TO OPEN THEIR FREAKING EYES.
      Yeah I didn't understand why Adrien wasn't tempted to open his eyes a little.  I mean he has more reason to, right?  I'm pretty sure, although I could be wrong, that Ladybug was the one who made up the "we can't tell each other our secret identities" rule.  I mean they waited a long time for their kwami's to make the fake miraculous and for Dark Owl to fall for the trap before changing back.  Not to mention waiting for their powers to recharge.  I mean if I was in Adrien's shoes I'd give in to the temptation and peak a little after at least 2 minutes... But then again that's just me.

      Adrien is a gentleman who respects Ladybug's wishes.

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    • Coupon Boy wrote:
      I just found out that the production code for this episode is 213, meaning this is technically the "mid-season finale". This probably means the five episodes of the first half of the season that haven't been released yet will make no mention of the Kwamies knowing the heroes' identities. This also probably means none of the new heroes will make their debut until the second half of the season (perhaps in response to Black Owl?). The only significant plot events likely to take place during these episodes are Luka's introduction, Lila's reappearance and more redeeming character development for Chloe.

      Depends. "Animan" has the production code 113. Nothing groundbreaking in that like in, say, "Princess Fragrance" where we meet Master Fu.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      TheBlackDemon1996 wrote:
      ShinoharaHiroko wrote:
      THESE TWO HAD ONE JOB: TO OPEN THEIR FREAKING EYES.
      Yeah I didn't understand why Adrien wasn't tempted to open his eyes a little.  I mean he has more reason to, right?  I'm pretty sure, although I could be wrong, that Ladybug was the one who made up the "we can't tell each other our secret identities" rule.  I mean they waited a long time for their kwami's to make the fake miraculous and for Dark Owl to fall for the trap before changing back.  Not to mention waiting for their powers to recharge.  I mean if I was in Adrien's shoes I'd give in to the temptation and peak a little after at least 2 minutes... But then again that's just me.
      Adrien is a gentleman who respects Ladybug's wishes.

      I repeat the last part of my statement...

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Yes unless I'm mistaken, we'd no word of dubbing beginning until September, yes? If that's true, then that explains things to some degree.

      I follow Ezra Weisz on Instagram, and I'm pretty sure dubbing started around the start August/end of July judging by the videos I remember being posted - still I think people forget they have to get every voice actor and voice every side character too. One thing I do know is that English dubbing was going on yesterday evening.

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    • You know I've always wondered this, do you think Marinette's tone deaf? If you think about it of all the things she says are lovely about Adrien I don't think she's ever mentioned anything about his voice... It would explain why she doesn't suspect him being Cat Noir if its true.  At least I think so... What do you guys think?

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    • Slabcity wrote:

      I follow Ezra Weisz on Instagram, and I'm pretty sure dubbing started around the start August/end of July judging by the videos I remember being posted - still I think people forget they have to get every voice actor and voice every side character too. One thing I do know is that English dubbing was going on yesterday evening.


      They were dubbing the episodes yesterday?

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    • Hmm... I bet that Ladybug/Marinette will start to like Cat Noir, and Cat Noir/Adrien will start to like Marinette... kinda like the movie flipped!

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    • TheBlackDemon1996 wrote:
      You know I've always wondered this, do you think Marinette's tone deaf? If you think about it of all the things she says are lovely about Adrien I don't think she's ever mentioned anything about his voice... It would explain why she doesn't suspect him being Cat Noir if its true.  At least I think so... What do you guys think?

      She sings really well, so I don't think so. I think his voice is just not something she thinks about as much as how nice he is and his skills and appearance, which is kind of the problem with her crush on him. She doesn't know much else about him, but it's also hard to describe someone you care about and not sound shallow.

      While they have the same voice, Cat Noir and Adrien do not have the same inflections or tone to their voice. Adrien's is softer and lighter than Cat Noir's, while his is louder and more cocky. It's pretty clear in "Horrificator", when Cat Noir ducks behind a slime pod and pretends to be Adrien. When he asks about Marinette, it's as Adrien, not Cat Noir. Ladybug and Marinette have a similar thing, but Marinette doesn't change her pitch or inflections when transformed, she just sounds like a more confident Marinette.

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    • I loved the episode, I also find it funny when I keep seeing people say: OMG! JUST OPEN YOUR EYES!

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    • Totally agreed!!! I was so happy/sad when I saw the episode! I was like screaming in my head!!!

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I'm not looking for reasons WHY Plagg could be akumatised. The thing you're saying is Plagg does not look like Plagg to me.

      I love how in "Dark Cupid, Cat Noir says he's "always wondered" what Cataclysm does on people. Most likely this is true, but it's always been in fear. Poor kid.

      Yeah. I started her page but then it disappeared into the ethos and I'm still upset.

      Well, technically it could be in character for him, but since we don't see much of him unlike Tikki, we can't really figure more of his depth for his character, I mean Alya and Chloé got more screentime than him, so maybe if they would focus more on Plagg, we would see sides of him that we've never seen before, like Chloé in Despair Bear. I think they said we would see him a bit more, I'm still waiting.

      Yeah, well now he knows what it does on food as seen in Gigantitan.

      Really? Ooohhhhhh.... Too bad, if Astruc could confirm Feri's art, that would be great.

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    • Ok so what I really like about this episode is that it does not follow the original plot line. it usually starts were marinette is fawning over adrein but instead this time shows them on patrol. I thought that was kind of interesting.

      Also the part were they have mics in their tools is pretty cool as well.

      This is some of the stuff i noticed that nobody is talking about that i liked.

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    • The episode will air this sunday on TFOU, so I'll be able to actually understand what they said, yeah!

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Well, technically it could be in character for him, but since we don't see much of him unlike Tikki, we can't really figure more of his depth for his character, I mean Alya and Chloé got more screentime than him, so maybe if they would focus more on Plagg, we would see sides of him that we've never seen before, like Chloé in Despair Bear. I think they said we would see him a bit more, I'm still waiting.

      Yeah, well now he knows what it does on food as seen in Gigantitan.

      Really? Ooohhhhhh.... Too bad, if Astruc could confirm Feri's art, that would be great.

      I'm trying to remain calm but you're beginning to frustrate me. I never, ever said Plagg wouldn't or can't be akumatised. What I said was the imp-like thing doesn't look remotely like Plagg to me. I don't need explanations for why he could get akumatised or what could cause it.

      Well, it works on everything I think. Just rots it right away and/or crumbles it to dust.

      mh, he hasn't yet? The page was made for her and says as much, but I think one of the other pages was copy/pasted in and not changed entirely. At least I didn't claim Astruc said it was his character (because I forgot, I just said Feri revealed her, but still. I misread the tweet and thought Astruc had created her).

      There were, mercifully, subtitles when I watched it, unlike with "Gigantitan", which the only dialogue I know about was stuff Feri translated off for me when I asked about who created the plan and she confirmed to me it ws Alya.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      TheBlackDemon1996 wrote:
      You know I've always wondered this, do you think Marinette's tone deaf? If you think about it of all the things she says are lovely about Adrien I don't think she's ever mentioned anything about his voice... It would explain why she doesn't suspect him being Cat Noir if its true.  At least I think so... What do you guys think?
      She sings really well, so I don't think so. I think his voice is just not something she thinks about as much as how nice he is and his skills and appearance, which is kind of the problem with her crush on him. She doesn't know much else about him, but it's also hard to describe someone you care about and not sound shallow.

      While they have the same voice, Cat Noir and Adrien do not have the same inflections or tone to their voice. Adrien's is softer and lighter than Cat Noir's, while his is louder and more cocky. It's pretty clear in "Horrificator", when Cat Noir ducks behind a slime pod and pretends to be Adrien. When he asks about Marinette, it's as Adrien, not Cat Noir. Ladybug and Marinette have a similar thing, but Marinette doesn't change her pitch or inflections when transformed, she just sounds like a more confident Marinette.

      Yeah, see I view Adrien not knowing as him not seeing much of Marinette.  She starts of as a hiding admiring crush so he didn't really have much to compare the two of them.  I mean you can't really know what a person looks and sounds like if they're either hiding or stumpling over their words in a high pitched squeel.  But that's changed recently, he's gotton a lot of opertunities to see and hear her, like their dance in Dispair Bear or her complimenting him at his fencing class, so I don't know... Maybe it's like a Clark Kent and Lex Luthor thing, where one refuses to admit it's the case despite evidence of it being obvious...

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    • TheBlackDemon1996 wrote:

      Yeah, see I view Adrien not knowing as him not seeing much of Marinette.  She starts of as a hiding admiring crush so he didn't really have much to compare the two of them.  I mean you can't really know what a person looks and sounds like if they're either hiding or stumpling over their words in a high pitched squeel.  But that's changed recently, he's gotton a lot of opertunities to see and hear her, like their dance in Dispair Bear or her complimenting him at his fencing class, so I don't know... Maybe it's like a Clark Kent and Lex Luthor thing, where one refuses to admit it's the case despite evidence of it being obvious...

      Well, we know Marinette refuses to entertain the idea that Adrien and Cat Noir are one and the same- she says as much in "Lady Wifi". Adrien might be unable to connect the two even now that he's heard Marinette talk normally, because Marinette is "easily flustered" (his words) while Ladybug is confident. He might be able to put it together if he sees more of her Class Rep attitude, which is very close to how Ladybug acts.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      TheBlackDemon1996 wrote:

      Yeah, see I view Adrien not knowing as him not seeing much of Marinette.  She starts of as a hiding admiring crush so he didn't really have much to compare the two of them.  I mean you can't really know what a person looks and sounds like if they're either hiding or stumpling over their words in a high pitched squeel.  But that's changed recently, he's gotton a lot of opertunities to see and hear her, like their dance in Dispair Bear or her complimenting him at his fencing class, so I don't know... Maybe it's like a Clark Kent and Lex Luthor thing, where one refuses to admit it's the case despite evidence of it being obvious...

      Well, we know Marinette refuses to entertain the idea that Adrien and Cat Noir are one and the same- she says as much in "Lady Wifi". Adrien might be unable to connect the two even now that he's heard Marinette talk normally, because Marinette is "easily flustered" (his words) while Ladybug is confident. He might be able to put it together if he sees more of her Class Rep attitude, which is very close to how Ladybug acts.

      Hmmm.... If only there was a way to find out... like... waiting.... NAAAAAAAH!!!

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    • Guys it's only the beginning! Marinette and Adrien will have plenty of time to spend with each other, and, one way or another, they will start to have doubts. DON'T FORGET THAT TIKKI AND PLAGG KNOW EVERYTHING NOW FJDCJDFBVJSDBVAJERDSCBVSDJZX

      Thomas also said that they will become a pair at some point of the show, so we, at least, have the ultimate confirmation that they will realize they're soulmates.

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    • ShinoharaHiroko wrote:
      Guys it's only the beginning! Marinette and Adrien will have plenty of time to spend with each other, and, one way or another, they will start to have doubts. DON'T FORGET THAT TIKKI AND PLAGG KNOW EVERYTHING NOW FJDCJDFBVJSDBVAJERDSCBVSDJZX

      Thomas also said that they will become a pair at some point of the show, so we, at least, have the ultimate confirmation that they will realize they're soulmates.

      So much for "No Spoilers Man", am I right...?

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I'm trying to remain calm but you're beginning to frustrate me. I never, ever said Plagg wouldn't or can't be akumatised. What I said was the imp-like thing doesn't look remotely like Plagg to me. I don't need explanations for why he could get akumatised or what could cause it.

      Well, it works on everything I think. Just rots it right away and/or crumbles it to dust.

      mh, he hasn't yet? The page was made for her and says as much, but I think one of the other pages was copy/pasted in and not changed entirely. At least I didn't claim Astruc said it was his character (because I forgot, I just said Feri revealed her, but still. I misread the tweet and thought Astruc had created her).

      There were, mercifully, subtitles when I watched it, unlike with "Gigantitan", which the only dialogue I know about was stuff Feri translated off for me when I asked about who created the plan and she confirmed to me it ws Alya.

      That's not what I was saying, I know that you think Plagg could be akumatized, just not with the reasonning or explanations I'm giving to you, because they seems to get on your nerves? Sorry about that, but you know it's just brain storming on my part, nothing concrete, right? Just some theories I'm throwing there and there. But doesn't the face of the imp, well the eyes and mouth, look like it could be Plagg? Then again, some villains don't look much like their civilian self, Stormy Weather, Riposte, Reflekta, Pharaoh, etc... It's all hypothesis on my part, and we could see some more sides of Plagg that we might have never before in the future, if he gives to Adrien the same thing Tikki gives to Marinette, for example.

      Yes, but only on one thing. If he has the opposite of the Miraculous cure, maybe his ability would destroy everything, like buildings, cars and trees all together or something? Too bad he no longer has the Black Storm and Black Hole powers from the concept arts.

      Ah. Culprit confirmed. But then again the others agreeing to do it too makes them as guilty.

      Wanna bet on how much Plagg won't stop bragging about knowing Ladybug's identity to Adrien, since he likes to tease him a lot.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      That's not what I was saying, I know that you think Plagg could be akumatized, just not with the reasonning or explanations I'm giving to you, because they seems to get on your nerves? Sorry about that, but you know it's just brain storming on my part, nothing concrete, right? Just some theories I'm throwing there and there. But doesn't the face of the imp, well the eyes and mouth, look like it could be Plagg? Then again, some villains don't look much like their civilian self, Stormy Weather, Riposte, Reflekta, Pharaoh, etc... It's all hypothesis on my part, and we could see some more sides of Plagg that we might have never before in the future, if he gives to Adrien the same thing Tikki gives to Marinette, for example.

      Yes, but only on one thing. If he has the opposite of the Miraculous cure, maybe his ability would destroy everything, like buildings, cars and trees all together or something? Too bad he no longer has the Black Storm and Black Hole powers from the concept arts.

      Ah. Culprit confirmed. But then again the others agreeing to do it too makes them as guilty.

      Wanna bet on how much Plagg won't stop bragging about knowing Ladybug's identity to Adrien, since he likes to tease him a lot.

      Ok. Okay okay. Let me explain my frustration: I do not feel you're actually listening to what I am saying. My frustration has nothing to do with your theories about how/why Plagg can be akumatised or anything like that. My frustration has everything to do with how this "Plagg is the small akuma with the ball" thing feels, to me, exactly like when people kept insisting Mr Kubdel is Hawk Moth. I don't get it, I don't get why people are expecting it to go that way, I don't get why this idea is appealing to so many people, I don't see it at all, and nobody can satisfactorally explain to me why that makes so much sense to them. They just keep telling me why and how it could have happened.

      Yeah, but if there's no Ladybug to rectify what he did... And who knows exactly what the extent of his power is- it seems to fluxuate. It seems to stop destroying when he takes his hand away or leaves it in one spot (so it's already touching something decayed/destroyed). Like he runs along Aurore's sign and his bookshelf and it keeps destroying it until he pulls his hand away. Yet in Rogercop, the entire floor wasn't destroyed when he touched it, just the area he touched. So he could make a lot of damage as long as he doesn't stay in one spot for too long or lift his hand up. At least, based on what we've seen of Adrien's powers.

      Me? I didn't have anything to do with the creation of the page that's up and I didn't say Astruc confirmed it. The one I made disappeared into nothingness and didn't include the bit about Astruc confirming it, like I said. I didn't put it in. So I'm not the culprit. All I've done with that new page is fix a typo. The person who made the page obviously took the Aztec Ladybug's page and edited it to fit with the Aztec Black Cat, so the wording about Feri posting it was kept, with the Inktober bit being omitted. I basically did nothing if you look at the page history. I added in one letter, "s", to the word "he" since it was supposed to be a "she".

      Honestly I don't know lol. On the one hand I can see him taunting Adrien, but on the other, I can see him trying to push them together so Adrien stops mooning over her.

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    • Now I feel like the kwamis knowing both holders' identities is not going to be brought up again until the actual reveal cause of production code

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    • MeowGatoLover wrote:
      Now I feel like the kwamis knowing both holders' identities is not going to be brought up again until the actual reveal cause of production code

      They won't just have them know and then do nothing with it, I don't think. Production code doesn't mean airing or chronological order. Look at Season 1. Production Code just means the episode was the 13th episode in production, but that doesn't mean it was written 13th or even produced 13th. I mean, it's the 8th aired episode and things seem to be a little behind, if the US Netflix date is anything to go on.

      There's also, you know, episodes with the production codes 214-226 to touch on it.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      MeowGatoLover wrote:
      Now I feel like the kwamis knowing both holders' identities is not going to be brought up again until the actual reveal cause of production code

      They won't just have them know and then do nothing with it, I don't think. Production code doesn't mean airing or chronological order. Look at Season 1. Production Code just means the episode was the 13th episode in production, but that doesn't mean it was written 13th or even produced 13th. I mean, it's the 8th aired episode and things seem to be a little behind, if the US Netflix date is anything to go on.

      There's also, you know, episodes with the production codes 214-226 to touch on it.

      Maybe they did the production codes out of order to trick us because they know that we will be watching every little detail...

      (This was mostly a joke)

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Ok. Okay okay. Let me explain my frustration: I do not feel you're actually listening to what I am saying. My frustration has nothing to do with your theories about how/why Plagg can be akumatised or anything like that. My frustration has everything to do with how this "Plagg is the small akuma with the ball" thing feels, to me, exactly like when people kept insisting Mr Kubdel is Hawk Moth. I don't get it, I don't get why people are expecting it to go that way, I don't get why this idea is appealing to so many people, I don't see it at all, and nobody can satisfactorally explain to me why that makes so much sense to them. They just keep telling me why and how it could have happened.

      Yeah, but if there's no Ladybug to rectify what he did... And who knows exactly what the extent of his power is- it seems to fluxuate. It seems to stop destroying when he takes his hand away or leaves it in one spot (so it's already touching something decayed/destroyed). Like he runs along Aurore's sign and his bookshelf and it keeps destroying it until he pulls his hand away. Yet in Rogercop, the entire floor wasn't destroyed when he touched it, just the area he touched. So he could make a lot of damage as long as he doesn't stay in one spot for too long or lift his hand up. At least, based on what we've seen of Adrien's powers.

      Me? I didn't have anything to do with the creation of the page that's up and I didn't say Astruc confirmed it. The one I made disappeared into nothingness and didn't include the bit about Astruc confirming it, like I said. I didn't put it in. So I'm not the culprit. All I've done with that new page is fix a typo. The person who made the page obviously took the Aztec Ladybug's page and edited it to fit with the Aztec Black Cat, so the wording about Feri posting it was kept, with the Inktober bit being omitted. I basically did nothing if you look at the page history. I added in one letter, "s", to the word "he" since it was supposed to be a "she".

      Honestly I don't know lol. On the one hand I can see him taunting Adrien, but on the other, I can see him trying to push them together so Adrien stops mooning over her.

      Oh. Is that so. My bad. But is it so wrong that we don't feel the same way? We don't always agree on everything, and we don't have to either, there's always different sides to what the fandom interprets something, I think this, you think that, and we won't budge until we get confirmations. I get your furstration, it's like me when I'm in my "I hate Marinette here's why" rants, I get frustrated about things I care about and all that. Then again, after the Collector with the spoiler that Gabriel Agreste is Hawk Moth, who half the fandom thought it was evident, maybe it's the same here. If a kwami would be akumatize, they might look a bit more human, they aren't artificial robots liek Markow, so they might get fingers, grow bigger and look more human. Each akumatization is different, heck we've seen Kagami and Wang looking more their heritage when they transformed. It could be Noel/Chris, and not Plagg, but there's a side that will say it's Plagg, another who says it's not him, and when the episode will air, we'll see who's right. You know how it is, people fantisies and then takes them as reality, until reality calls with either a pat on their back for guessing right or a slap to the face to those who were wrong with their guess. Personally, I can say for myself that I think it's Plagg just because of his face, it looks like Plagg to me. It just came to me and won't leave until the episode air. You knwo, when suddently a thought comes in mind and you make something out of it and then it just shadow every thing else? If I'm wrong well, guess what? I'll be fine with it. Can't be right about everything with this show, but that's how is life. The fandom always get divised in parties, one side this, one side that, a third party who opts for a third option and a fourth one who doesn't care. I find it funny that we're most of the time opposed and on the same side at the same time. I'm not telling you to agree with me on this one for once either at least, not gonna lose my mind about wether Plagg will be akumatized and if yes what he looks like as an akumatized villain. Only thing we can agree on is that we want to see this episode soon.

      So you say the more he let his hand on something the more it spreads? I suppose so, but also it might depend on the material, like it will rust when it's metal or it will crumble if it's stone. 

      Whoops, my bad, the culprit I was referring about was Alya who thought of the plan in Gigantitan, not the one who deleted Mistontli's page. So sorry about that misunderstanding. Guess I read the wrong paragraph, totally my fault here. Really sorry about that. "bows down"

      Yeah, but I remember him laughing at Nino when the latter tried to confess to Marinette in "Animan", so I would go more with taunting him until Adrien decide to do something about it.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Oh. Is that so. My bad. But is it so wrong that we don't feel the same way? We don't always agree on everything, and we don't have to either, there's always different sides to what the fandom interprets something, I think this, you think that, and we won't budge until we get confirmations. I get your furstration, it's like me when I'm in my "I hate Marinette here's why" rants, I get frustrated about things I care about and all that. Then again, after the Collector with the spoiler that Gabriel Agreste is Hawk Moth, who half the fandom thought it was evident, maybe it's the same here. If a kwami would be akumatize, they might look a bit more human, they aren't artificial robots liek Markow, so they might get fingers, grow bigger and look more human. Each akumatization is different, heck we've seen Kagami and Wang looking more their heritage when they transformed. It could be Noel/Chris, and not Plagg, but there's a side that will say it's Plagg, another who says it's not him, and when the episode will air, we'll see who's right. You know how it is, people fantisies and then takes them as reality, until reality calls with either a pat on their back for guessing right or a slap to the face to those who were wrong with their guess. Personally, I can say for myself that I think it's Plagg just because of his face, it looks like Plagg to me. It just came to me and won't leave until the episode air. You knwo, when suddently a thought comes in mind and you make something out of it and then it just shadow every thing else? If I'm wrong well, guess what? I'll be fine with it. Can't be right about everything with this show, but that's how is life. The fandom always get divised in parties, one side this, one side that, a third party who opts for a third option and a fourth one who doesn't care. I find it funny that we're most of the time opposed and on the same side at the same time. I'm not telling you to agree with me on this one for once either at least, not gonna lose my mind about wether Plagg will be akumatized and if yes what he looks like as an akumatized villain. Only thing we can agree on is that we want to see this episode soon.

      So you say the more he let his hand on something the more it spreads? I suppose so, but also it might depend on the material, like it will rust when it's metal or it will crumble if it's stone. 

      Whoops, my bad, the culprit I was referring about was Alya who thought of the plan in Gigantitan, not the one who deleted Mistontli's page. So sorry about that misunderstanding. Guess I read the wrong paragraph, totally my fault here. Really sorry about that. "bows down"

      Yeah, but I remember him laughing at Nino when the latter tried to confess to Marinette in "Animan", so I would go more with taunting him until Adrien decide to do something about it.

      I think it's one of Alya's sisters, and the antennae villain is the other twin. Their silhouettes are nearly identical, aside from the antennae, so I would think they're related considering how no other akuma looks like another akuma that much. I think Noel/Chris might be the villain who looks like his powers are based in nightmares, the small purple one. Who is by far the most interesting one to me, if his powers really ARE based in causing nightmares. Which, with his names, I'm really surprised his episode doesn't seem to be another Christmas-based episode. Like if it was just "Noel" I wouldn't bat an eye, but "Chris", too? As in Christmas?

      That seems to be the case, anyway. Cat Noir's Cataclysm seems to stop working if whatever he's touching is already rotted/rusted/decayed/whatever or if he lifts his hand up. He's had three moments I can think of off-hand where he drags his hand along a surface to spread his Cataclysm decay and the decay only stops when he lifts up his hand or stops moving. So his powers seem to work as long as he continues to touch things that haven't already been touched by Cataclysm.

      Oh! I thought for a moment that may be what you meant... Should go with my gut instinct. It's okay, no need to bow lol. I'm just explaining that I had nothing to do with Mistontli. Like, at all. But yeah, Feri told me that the dialogue and Marinette's actions during the explanation heavily imply Alya was the one responsible for it, since Marinette asks Alya if she's sure about the plan working and she's blushing the whole time and I think she tries to deny to Alix about her crush. Since I haven't seen the episode with subtitles or in English, I have no clue for sure what went down. But just based on the visuals and her previous actions, Alya's obviously the mastermind. I think the others just want Marinette to have a chance with the guy she likes. They're still leaving Adrien open to turn her down, but they I think just want Adrien to get to know Marinette better and see what they do about her. But that's enough of that, said I wouldn't talk about the pairing.

      It's probably both. Plagg is always encouraging Adrien to find out who Ladybug is. His expression when he saw who it was interests me a little. Tikki I think seemed to have figured it out because her reaction wasn't as obvious as Plagg's, or Plagg was surprised that Adrien's "just a friend" is Ladybug. 

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I think it's one of Alya's sisters, and the antennae villain is the other twin. Their silhouettes are nearly identical, aside from the antennae, so I would think they're related considering how no other akuma looks like another akuma that much. I think Noel/Chris might be the villain who looks like his powers are based in nightmares, the small purple one. Who is by far the most interesting one to me, if his powers really ARE based in causing nightmares. Which, with his names, I'm really surprised his episode doesn't seem to be another Christmas-based episode. Like if it was just "Noel" I wouldn't bat an eye, but "Chris", too? As in Christmas?

      That seems to be the case, anyway. Cat Noir's Cataclysm seems to stop working if whatever he's touching is already rotted/rusted/decayed/whatever or if he lifts his hand up. He's had three moments I can think of off-hand where he drags his hand along a surface to spread his Cataclysm decay and the decay only stops when he lifts up his hand or stops moving. So his powers seem to work as long as he continues to touch things that haven't already been touched by Cataclysm.

      Oh! I thought for a moment that may be what you meant... Should go with my gut instinct. It's okay, no need to bow lol. I'm just explaining that I had nothing to do with Mistontli. Like, at all. But yeah, Feri told me that the dialogue and Marinette's actions during the explanation heavily imply Alya was the one responsible for it, since Marinette asks Alya if she's sure about the plan working and she's blushing the whole time and I think she tries to deny to Alix about her crush. Since I haven't seen the episode with subtitles or in English, I have no clue for sure what went down. But just based on the visuals and her previous actions, Alya's obviously the mastermind. I think the others just want Marinette to have a chance with the guy she likes. They're still leaving Adrien open to turn her down, but they I think just want Adrien to get to know Marinette better and see what they do about her. But that's enough of that, said I wouldn't talk about the pairing.

      It's probably both. Plagg is always encouraging Adrien to find out who Ladybug is. His expression when he saw who it was interests me a little. Tikki I think seemed to have figured it out because her reaction wasn't as obvious as Plagg's, or Plagg was surprised that Adrien's "just a friend" is Ladybug. 

      They don't look like girls much, but then again, neither did the Horrificator, according to the heroes's surprise when they realized she was Mylène. I would prefer one of the twins to be the small purple villain (looks more girly a bit?) and the imp could be Chris/Noel.  Honestly, you saying the imp could be either Etta or Ella pretty puts me in your position of when you were all "why do people thinks the imp is Plagg?" surprise. But I can see your reasonning. However, silhouette don't matter much I think, Chloé and Marinette got most of their silhouette identical in body shape, plus the fact that they dress in some look alike fashion, ballet shoes, 3/4 pants, a jacket over their shirt and both tie they hair, although Chloé has a ponytail and Marinette has twin tails. We could see them being mostly identical when Chloé was Antibug, it stops at the head, but they pratically have the same shape. Kinda of funny how anti opposite they are while still having similarities, even in personality, Alya was right when she said both would do anything when it comes to Adrien. But I wonder how they will fight, i don't think they will go all like the twin card in Cardcaptors. 

      Indeed. It's quite fascinating.

      Alya is the mastermind, but couldn't be able to do anything without Marinette's approval and the girls participation, so they are all guitly in my eyes. While it's nice that they support her crush on Adrien, going with Alya's plan was not nice, especially when they see that it might give serious troubles to his bodyguard. The poor gorilla just does his job. I was pretty glad that he could leave with Adrien without Marinette in the end. I'm honestly surprised that pretty much no one commented on what could happen to the bodyguard and it being just pretty much cruel to him it is. Even though he left with Adrien, he still got 3 tickets and none of the girls will ever apologize or will be sorry about it, even less get any punishment for that, and it really irks me. I thought we said we wouldn't talk about the pairing until the next episode, that was yesterday. :) Please continue.

      He might be as dense as Adrien, like kwami like holder. I doubt he cares much for Adrien's classmates apart from Nino, he mostly just eat his cheese. And maybe he was surprised that Ladybug turned out to be the girl Adrien tried to set up Nino with? I suppose that unlike Marinette, Tikki might have thought Alya had a point about Adrien being Chat Noir in "Lady Wifi". After all, she has been doing this forever, she isn't biased like Marinette, she most likely have seen many other holders who acted a 180 degre different from their civilian self. That or she's really more polite and composed outside, but on the inside, she's cheering and laughing.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      They don't look like girls much, but then again, neither did the Horrificator, according to the heroes's surprise when they realized she was Mylène. I would prefer one of the twins to be the small purple villain (looks more girly a bit?) and the imp could be Chris/Noel.  Honestly, you saying the imp could be either Etta or Ella pretty puts me in your position of when you were all "why do people thinks the imp is Plagg?" surprise. But I can see your reasonning. However, silhouette don't matter much I think, Chloé and Marinette got most of their silhouette identical in body shape, plus the fact that they dress in some look alike fashion, ballet shoes, 3/4 pants, a jacket over their shirt and both tie they hair, although Chloé has a ponytail and Marinette has twin tails. We could see them being mostly identical when Chloé was Antibug, it stops at the head, but they pratically have the same shape. Kinda of funny how anti opposite they are while still having similarities, even in personality, Alya was right when she said both would do anything when it comes to Adrien. But I wonder how they will fight, i don't think they will go all like the twin card in Cardcaptors. 

      Indeed. It's quite fascinating.

      Alya is the mastermind, but couldn't be able to do anything without Marinette's approval and the girls participation, so they are all guitly in my eyes. While it's nice that they support her crush on Adrien, going with Alya's plan was not nice, especially when they see that it might give serious troubles to his bodyguard. The poor gorilla just does his job. I was pretty glad that he could leave with Adrien without Marinette in the end. I'm honestly surprised that pretty much no one commented on what could happen to the bodyguard and it being just pretty much cruel to him it is. Even though he left with Adrien, he still got 3 tickets and none of the girls will ever apologize or will be sorry about it, even less get any punishment for that, and it really irks me. I thought we said we wouldn't talk about the pairing until the next episode, that was yesterday. :) Please continue.

      He might be as dense as Adrien, like kwami like holder. I doubt he cares much for Adrien's classmates apart from Nino, he mostly just eat his cheese. And maybe he was surprised that Ladybug turned out to be the girl Adrien tried to set up Nino with? I suppose that unlike Marinette, Tikki might have thought Alya had a point about Adrien being Chat Noir in "Lady Wifi". After all, she has been doing this forever, she isn't biased like Marinette, she most likely have seen many other holders who acted a 180 degre different from their civilian self. That or she's really more polite and composed outside, but on the inside, she's cheering and laughing.

      I think the purple villain looks like a little boy in footie jammies, haha. I think Ella and Etta might get akumatised together and answer the question of what happens if more than one person with negative feelings is holding the akumatised object when the butterfly lands. I think if that does happen, they might have the powers more like the Change, not the Twin, or could also have the power to switch the locations of things. It's one thing for humans to have similar silhouettes, and another thing for the more beast-like akumas to have similar silhouettes. I honestly wouldn't suggest Ella and Etta if it weren't for the fact that it would be very strange to have two akumas that look like the akuma with the ball. So I think they're related in some way, so either they're both kwamis, or it's a set of twins or something. Most people I think speculate it's Wayzz and Plagg, at least according to the comment section, because of the face of one and the antennae of the other. If that is how it works out, then that episode might be the introduction of Queen Bee or Rena Rouge. Either way, be it Ella and Etta or Wayzz and Plagg, I think that they might be the episode where we get Rena Rouge.

      But if it is Ella and Etta, I dearly hope they have the power of The Change and switch Ladybug and Cat Noir or switch their Miraculouses at the very least. It'd be hilarious. And it would be interesting if Wayzz getting akumatised relates to Carapace being called on. I actually do not think Master Fu will die cuz I don't think (anymore) his long life is a result of bearing the Turtle Miraculous..

      I mean I could be over-speculating but I have watched Season 1 a lot in order to form theories and I really want to watch Season 2 more than I have but I've sworn off watching each episode more than twice (unless it came out in English first, then it's only once).

      I don't think they considered he'd do more than move his car. Didn't expect he'd get a ticket over it, much less three of them. The goal was just to move him out of the way, but that wasn't even needed if they just had Marinette approach him before getting back to the car. He knows she's an aspiring fashion designer, and it's established she goes there a lot for inspiration, so that's all she had to say to him. Heck, they could have staged it so Marinette bumped into him on the stairs. Adrien knows she's clumsy. Marinette could say she was thinking about taking a rickshaw for inspiration and invite Adrien along. The fact that none of this happened is because Alya thinks in cliches, where Marinette is more direct and to the point outside of fashion. When I think of Alya's personality, she probably wasn't taking no for an answer. This makes sense with her life's dream of being an intrepid reporter, too. I agree what they did was wrong, but I'm guessing it was meant to fall under Rule of Funny, not something to be thought about as "the girls in Miss Bustier's class are awful and inconsiderate". The entire episode made me cringe, not least because it felt like everyone was out of character. Like, why does Alix care about Marinette's love life? Why is Hawk Moth clutching the idiot ball and the villain ball like his life depends on it?

      Plagg already teased Adrien about Marinette in the past at least once, possibly twice if "Troublemaker" came before this one. I still don't think Plagg is all about cheese, laziness, and playing, but I don't think he especially knows Adrien's classmates because Adrien doesn't really interact with his class. So for Plagg, he only had a few options in the first place, and Marinette is the only girl who hasn't been akumatised that he knows Adrien is friends with. Either way I think he might taunt Adrien with the truth while mocking him about Marinette, especially after "Troublemaker". Cuz while Adrien might be dense/in denial, Plagg immediately latched onto the crush thing.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      They won't just have them know and then do nothing with it, I don't think.

      They likely won't do anything with it until Marinette and Adrien find each other out for real. Until then, the Kwamis will keep quiet about it and act like they know nothing to maintain the show's current status-quo.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I think the purple villain looks like a little boy in footie jammies, haha. I think Ella and Etta might get akumatised together and answer the question of what happens if more than one person with negative feelings is holding the akumatised object when the butterfly lands. I think if that does happen, they might have the powers more like the Change, not the Twin, or could also have the power to switch the locations of things. It's one thing for humans to have similar silhouettes, and another thing for the more beast-like akumas to have similar silhouettes. I honestly wouldn't suggest Ella and Etta if it weren't for the fact that it would be very strange to have two akumas that look like the akuma with the ball. So I think they're related in some way, so either they're both kwamis, or it's a set of twins or something. Most people I think speculate it's Wayzz and Plagg, at least according to the comment section, because of the face of one and the antennae of the other. If that is how it works out, then that episode might be the introduction of Queen Bee or Rena Rouge. Either way, be it Ella and Etta or Wayzz and Plagg, I think that they might be the episode where we get Rena Rouge.

      But if it is Ella and Etta, I dearly hope they have the power of The Change and switch Ladybug and Cat Noir or switch their Miraculouses at the very least. It'd be hilarious. And it would be interesting if Wayzz getting akumatised relates to Carapace being called on. I actually do not think Master Fu will die cuz I don't think (anymore) his long life is a result of bearing the Turtle Miraculous..

      I mean I could be over-speculating but I have watched Season 1 a lot in order to form theories and I really want to watch Season 2 more than I have but I've sworn off watching each episode more than twice (unless it came out in English first, then it's only once).

      I don't think they considered he'd do more than move his car. Didn't expect he'd get a ticket over it, much less three of them. The goal was just to move him out of the way, but that wasn't even needed if they just had Marinette approach him before getting back to the car. He knows she's an aspiring fashion designer, and it's established she goes there a lot for inspiration, so that's all she had to say to him. Heck, they could have staged it so Marinette bumped into him on the stairs. Adrien knows she's clumsy. Marinette could say she was thinking about taking a rickshaw for inspiration and invite Adrien along. The fact that none of this happened is because Alya thinks in cliches, where Marinette is more direct and to the point outside of fashion. When I think of Alya's personality, she probably wasn't taking no for an answer. This makes sense with her life's dream of being an intrepid reporter, too. I agree what they did was wrong, but I'm guessing it was meant to fall under Rule of Funny, not something to be thought about as "the girls in Miss Bustier's class are awful and inconsiderate". The entire episode made me cringe, not least because it felt like everyone was out of character. Like, why does Alix care about Marinette's love life? Why is Hawk Moth clutching the idiot ball and the villain ball like his life depends on it?

      Plagg already teased Adrien about Marinette in the past at least once, possibly twice if "Troublemaker" came before this one. I still don't think Plagg is all about cheese, laziness, and playing, but I don't think he especially knows Adrien's classmates because Adrien doesn't really interact with his class. So for Plagg, he only had a few options in the first place, and Marinette is the only girl who hasn't been akumatised that he knows Adrien is friends with. Either way I think he might taunt Adrien with the truth while mocking him about Marinette, especially after "Troublemaker". Cuz while Adrien might be dense/in denial, Plagg immediately latched onto the crush thing.

      Hum, maybe. But I hope that if it's them they will be adorable. The one with the antenna reminds me of the teletubbies. You think maybe if Wayzz is akumatized, Fu decide to give his miraculous to someone else (Nino) and calls the rest of the miraculous to help to save the day? Uh, that would be interesting.

      I suppose Adrien as Ladybug would be more fashionable, let's be realistic, Marinette has the most basic, boring ladybug design suit ever. I prefered her PV version. 

      Is that so. I rewatch several scenes of episodes, like Riposte, sometimes to be sure of what I say, or just confirm when I'm told I'm worng, and then go oh right he/she did say that or it went like that. 

      More like the girls in Miss Bustier's class don't think what would happen to other people other than themselves. The thing is taht the writers make fun of things that really shouldn't, like Marinette's stalking of Adrien in Gigantitan, never cringed so hard since Copycat, or the fact that she steals stuff when unneccesary and not anything to do with her super heroing and they make a joke and almost present it in a positive way, and I don't get past that. Seems more jarring because it looks like double standard, Marinette stalks Adrien and have his entire schedule plus all of the details on him and it's cute, Chat Noir wants a kiss and flirts and he's pushy, okay he might, but considering what Marinette does, I let him off the leash cause he is more respectful, he let go when she tells him no. Alix knows she crush on Adrien and knows how she is around him, so maybe she tried to help with that, or just laugh at what will really happens, Marinette not ending with Adrien alone. I think Hawk Moth didn't want to waste his power for the day, he had Adrien, so maybe he thought he could handle it. Clearly not. Then again he didn't hurt Gigantitan, or didn't take back his powers, considering he dropped several meters down when he was back to normal, I would say he thought he knew it was gonna happen, and maybe the heroes wouldn't catch him in time? Another OC episode for everyone like in Volpina, except maybe Adrien and the gorilla. Oh, and Rose too, totally was in her character actually.

      It might just be teasing on his part too, given how Adrien swoons over Ladybug, Plagg pays him back by teasing other girls to be his girlfriend maybe? I know he's not just all about cheese, lazyness and playing and I hope we'll see him more serious later. Like really serious, level Gabriel Agreste serious. Guess we'll have to wait Timebreaker. 

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    • Maetch wrote:

      They likely won't do anything with it until Marinette and Adrien find each other out for real. Until then, the Kwamis will keep quiet about it and act like they know nothing to maintain the show's current status-quo.

      Aren't you the one always criticising the show for being a storm of cliches and insist it'll never not do the cliche thing? What's cliche about showing the kwamis learning and then doing nothing with it?

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Maetch wrote:

      They likely won't do anything with it until Marinette and Adrien find each other out for real. Until then, the Kwamis will keep quiet about it and act like they know nothing to maintain the show's current status-quo.

      Aren't you the one always criticising the show for being a storm of cliches and insist it'll never not do the cliche thing? What's cliche about showing the kwamis learning and then doing nothing with it?

      Because that too is a cliche: anything that may radically change characters and/or the plot will usually go unnoticed and ignored so that everything can continue as it always has. Best example is The Simpsons when Principal Skinner gets revealed as being someone else entirely, only for the episode to end with Skinner reassuming his original identity and everybody forced by law to never speak of the incident again.

      Granted, it works better when there's no actual plot in the show, but Miraculous still has a certain status-quo to uphold for the time being. The Kwamis are not going to ruin the surprise of who each others' masters are to Marinette and Adrien because the show's dynamic hinges so much on them not knowing. Maybe at the end of the season, they might squeal that they always knew after Mari and Adrien find out for themselves, but definitely not in the middle.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Hum, maybe. But I hope that if it's them they will be adorable. The one with the antenna reminds me of the teletubbies. You think maybe if Wayzz is akumatized, Fu decide to give his miraculous to someone else (Nino) and calls the rest of the miraculous to help to save the day? Uh, that would be interesting.

      I suppose Adrien as Ladybug would be more fashionable, let's be realistic, Marinette has the most basic, boring ladybug design suit ever. I prefered her PV version. 

      Is that so. I rewatch several scenes of episodes, like Riposte, sometimes to be sure of what I say, or just confirm when I'm told I'm worng, and then go oh right he/she did say that or it went like that. 

      More like the girls in Miss Bustier's class don't think what would happen to other people other than themselves. The thing is taht the writers make fun of things that really shouldn't, like Marinette's stalking of Adrien in Gigantitan, never cringed so hard since Copycat, or the fact that she steals stuff when unneccesary and not anything to do with her super heroing and they make a joke and almost present it in a positive way, and I don't get past that. Seems more jarring because it looks like double standard, Marinette stalks Adrien and have his entire schedule plus all of the details on him and it's cute, Chat Noir wants a kiss and flirts and he's pushy, okay he might, but considering what Marinette does, I let him off the leash cause he is more respectful, he let go when she tells him no. Alix knows she crush on Adrien and knows how she is around him, so maybe she tried to help with that, or just laugh at what will really happens, Marinette not ending with Adrien alone. I think Hawk Moth didn't want to waste his power for the day, he had Adrien, so maybe he thought he could handle it. Clearly not. Then again he didn't hurt Gigantitan, or didn't take back his powers, considering he dropped several meters down when he was back to normal, I would say he thought he knew it was gonna happen, and maybe the heroes wouldn't catch him in time? Another OC episode for everyone like in Volpina, except maybe Adrien and the gorilla. Oh, and Rose too, totally was in her character actually.

      It might just be teasing on his part too, given how Adrien swoons over Ladybug, Plagg pays him back by teasing other girls to be his girlfriend maybe? I know he's not just all about cheese, lazyness and playing and I hope we'll see him more serious later. Like really serious, level Gabriel Agreste serious. Guess we'll have to wait Timebreaker. 

      Not both Queen Bee AND Rena Rouge, just one of them. I think Queen Bee is the sixth one, though I still can't remember where that conclusion came from. I think if Wayzz gets akumatised, Master Fu might decide it's time to give him up, or his decision to give Wayzz up is what causes the akumatisation. I don't think Carapace will appear for a while either way.

      It is pretty boring haha. Boring, but practical I guess.

      I rewatch more than just one episode to avoid contradictions between episodes. Like in "Origins", Tikki and Plagg seem unware of what happened while inside the Miraculouses, but in "Dark Cupid", Plagg seems to know what happened. I think they don't know what happens, and Adrien found out what happened through hearsay and video recordings, since there obviously were some. He just didn't make it to the part where Ladybug kissed him because he was too humiliated by all the things he said to her. This would explain why neither of them were able to figure out who the other was with, because Marinette hasn't really attempted to hide her identity from him.

      I think Cat Noir is viewed in a more negative light because his is more direct. What he does is more in line with sexual harrassment. Flirting and trying to kiss a girl he knows isn't interested, backing off for a moment but getting right back to it, still asking her on dates or telling them they'd make a good match if she'd just give him a chance, staking a claim on her to stop another guy from expressing his own interest in her... What Cat Noir does is just as bad as what Marinette does, made worse than normal by the fact that he's normally such a nice guy. Marinette is indirect, since she limits herself to stalking him. Hers is treated as funny because it's so over-the-top, so it's like it's absurd. It's also ultimately harmless, just really creepy and wrong. The only thing Marinette knew that could have played into the problem with the Gorilla was that Adrien had a photoshoot that day, something Alya could have learnt from Adrien himself or Nino. However, they're both in the wrong, and I'd like to see Marinette's character development involve no longer knowing Adrien's entire day inside and out and starting to see him more as a person. And I'd like to see Adrien/Cat Noir back off and actually get to know Ladybug/Marinette. They both have pretty idealised visions of the other and don't know each other that well, I don't think. Which, I think both Luka and Cat Noir will play into that happening. I still think Luka and Kagami are meant to serve as kinds of transition interests for our heroes. Like either Luka helps Marinette to become interested in Cat Noir, not Adrien, and Kagami helps Adrien get over Ladybug and fall for Marinette, or else they help the two of them to realise that hey, Cat Noir/Ladybug and Adrien/Marinette are pretty similar sometimes. 

      Man you really do not have a high opinion of Alix, either, lol. You just said she might have gone along with the plan just to laugh at Marinette's likely failure. That's the kind of mean thing Lila would do.

      If he'd just automatically revoked the powers, before August transformed, there was no danger and he could have sent the akuma after someone else. I mean, when the akumatised item breaks, the akuma is still intact, right? So he should have been able to send it to someone else. And yeah, another OOC episode for just about everyone. Even Adrien had his moment at the end of the episode. I was thoughly surprised to see him acting like he'd rather be anywhere than with Marinette. They're supposed to be friends, but he doesn't seem to want to talk to her. It's not like he's in a rush, either. It's like he just doesn't like her. He's not even that way towards Chloe or his dad or anyone else. It didn't feel right to me. And Adrien I don't think is clever enough to conclude why Marinette was there if he still hasn't figured out she's Ladybug even despite the massive clues.

      Serious like he was when telling Adrien to never tell anyone about him might be as serious as he gets, and his tone was razor sharp when he said that. Plagg either wants Adrien to get over Ladybug, or wants to clue him in I think. That and I think he just likes teasing Adrien. It's probably just he likes teasing Adrien.

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    • Maetch wrote:

      Because that too is a cliche: anything that may radically change characters and/or the plot will usually go unnoticed and ignored so that everything can continue as it always has. Best example is The Simpsons when Principal Skinner gets revealed as being someone else entirely, only for the episode to end with Skinner reassuming his original identity and everybody forced by law to never speak of the incident again.

      Granted, it works better when there's no actual plot in the show, but Miraculous still has a certain status-quo to uphold for the time being. The Kwamis are not going to ruin the surprise of who each others' masters are to Marinette and Adrien because the show's dynamic hinges so much on them not knowing. Maybe at the end of the season, they might squeal that they always knew after Mari and Adrien find out for themselves, but definitely not in the middle.

      Isn't it also cliche that one person finds out and then doesn't tell the other person? I don't think they're going to just have Tikki and Plagg know and then never, ever bring it up again. Like, surely Tikki will nudge Marinette towards Cat Noir and Plagg will nudge Adrien in Marinette's direction. They might never say it directly, but I seriously doubt they're going to just have them know and then it's never, ever shown again. This isn't a "comedy" show like the Simpsons. It follows different cliches, namely those with superheroes. It follows the kinds of cliches that go with secrets.

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    • This is definitely one of my favorite episodes so far. When they got stuck in the crate, it reminded me that we were promised a scene in which Adrien and Marinette would be stuck in a cage...but I had no idea it would end up like that!

      At first, I thought that Hawk Moth actually had their Miraculouses and I thought, "Uh oh, please tell me there is a part two to this!" But when I realized it was fake, I was both disappointed and relieved. Disappointed because it would show another possibility for a two-parter epiosode (besides the Origins) and relieved because Hawk Moth didn't possess the ultimate and dangerous power both of Ladybug's and Cat Noir's Miraculous have combined. Who knows what could've happened then...

      I wanted to have at least ONE of them open their eyes. That would be cool. But at least the kwamis know besides Master Fu. What would be hilarious is if Plagg says, "By the way, Adrien, your love is actually the shy girl that has a huge crush on you." And Adrien would just be like: O-O

      "Plagg!" Lol

      Even though I thought this to be a filler episode from the beginning when Mr. Damocles was trying (key word: trying) to be a good superhero, it really shocked me. It really did. Season 2 is just blowing me away right now.

      It was definitely a Wham Episode. DEFINITELY.

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    • OfficialSkyflower wrote:
      This is definitely one of my favorite episodes so far. When they got stuck in the crate, it reminded me that we were promised a scene in which Adrien and Marinette would be stuck in a cage...but I had no idea it would end up like that!

      At first, I thought that Hawk Moth actually had their Miraculouses and I thought, "Uh oh, please tell me there is a part two to this!" But when I realized it was fake, I was both disappointed and relieved. Disappointed because it would show another possibility for a two-parter epiosode (besides the Origins) and relieved because Hawk Moth didn't possess the ultimate and dangerous power both of Ladybug's and Cat Noir's Miraculous have combined. Who knows what could've happened then...

      I wanted to have at least ONE of them open their eyes. That would be cool. But at least the kwamis know besides Master Fu. What would be hilarious is if Plagg says, "By the way, Adrien, your love is actually the shy girl that has a huge crush on you." And Adrien would just be like: O-O

      "Plagg!" Lol

      Even though I thought this to be a filler episode from the beginning when Mr. Damocles was trying (key word: trying) to be a good superhero, it really shocked me. It really did. Season 2 is just blowing me away right now.

      It was definitely a Wham Episode. DEFINITELY.

      I figured immediately they hadn't given over the real Miraculouses, but I was surprised they gave us more information about Hawk Moth's ultimate goal.

      Well, considering Adrien is cheerfully oblivious/in denial that Marinette is crushing on him, Plagg would have to be more specific, ha xD

      Mh, I dunno if it's that big of a Wham Episode, considering most of it was silliness and references to the 60's Batman TV show. Which the fact that the reference goes over a lot of people's heads makes me feel rather old even though I only know it because it was on one of those networks that show old TV shows when I was a kid. "The Collector" was a Wham Episode. This one I think had Wham Lines but wouldn't quite make it for a full episode. It's got more like a Wham Scene.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Not both Queen Bee AND Rena Rouge, just one of them. I think Queen Bee is the sixth one, though I still can't remember where that conclusion came from. I think if Wayzz gets akumatised, Master Fu might decide it's time to give him up, or his decision to give Wayzz up is what causes the akumatisation. I don't think Carapace will appear for a while either way.

      It is pretty boring haha. Boring, but practical I guess.

      I rewatch more than just one episode to avoid contradictions between episodes. Like in "Origins", Tikki and Plagg seem unware of what happened while inside the Miraculouses, but in "Dark Cupid", Plagg seems to know what happened. I think they don't know what happens, and Adrien found out what happened through hearsay and video recordings, since there obviously were some. He just didn't make it to the part where Ladybug kissed him because he was too humiliated by all the things he said to her. This would explain why neither of them were able to figure out who the other was with, because Marinette hasn't really attempted to hide her identity from him.

      I think Cat Noir is viewed in a more negative light because his is more direct. What he does is more in line with sexual harrassment. Flirting and trying to kiss a girl he knows isn't interested, backing off for a moment but getting right back to it, still asking her on dates or telling them they'd make a good match if she'd just give him a chance, staking a claim on her to stop another guy from expressing his own interest in her... What Cat Noir does is just as bad as what Marinette does, made worse than normal by the fact that he's normally such a nice guy. Marinette is indirect, since she limits herself to stalking him. Hers is treated as funny because it's so over-the-top, so it's like it's absurd. It's also ultimately harmless, just really creepy and wrong. The only thing Marinette knew that could have played into the problem with the Gorilla was that Adrien had a photoshoot that day, something Alya could have learnt from Adrien himself or Nino. However, they're both in the wrong, and I'd like to see Marinette's character development involve no longer knowing Adrien's entire day inside and out and starting to see him more as a person. And I'd like to see Adrien/Cat Noir back off and actually get to know Ladybug/Marinette. They both have pretty idealised visions of the other and don't know each other that well, I don't think. Which, I think both Luka and Cat Noir will play into that happening. I still think Luka and Kagami are meant to serve as kinds of transition interests for our heroes. Like either Luka helps Marinette to become interested in Cat Noir, not Adrien, and Kagami helps Adrien get over Ladybug and fall for Marinette, or else they help the two of them to realise that hey, Cat Noir/Ladybug and Adrien/Marinette are pretty similar sometimes. 

      Man you really do not have a high opinion of Alix, either, lol. You just said she might have gone along with the plan just to laugh at Marinette's likely failure. That's the kind of mean thing Lila would do.

      If he'd just automatically revoked the powers, before August transformed, there was no danger and he could have sent the akuma after someone else. I mean, when the akumatised item breaks, the akuma is still intact, right? So he should have been able to send it to someone else. And yeah, another OOC episode for just about everyone. Even Adrien had his moment at the end of the episode. I was thoughly surprised to see him acting like he'd rather be anywhere than with Marinette. They're supposed to be friends, but he doesn't seem to want to talk to her. It's not like he's in a rush, either. It's like he just doesn't like her. He's not even that way towards Chloe or his dad or anyone else. It didn't feel right to me. And Adrien I don't think is clever enough to conclude why Marinette was there if he still hasn't figured out she's Ladybug even despite the massive clues.

      Serious like he was when telling Adrien to never tell anyone about him might be as serious as he gets, and his tone was razor sharp when he said that. Plagg either wants Adrien to get over Ladybug, or wants to clue him in I think. That and I think he just likes teasing Adrien. It's probably just he likes teasing Adrien.

      Oh, okay,

      Indeed. Can't wait to see her change it.

      Well, I think he just didn't remember the kiss, and Plagg told him he said pretty mean things to her, but he didn't mention the kiss.

      Then again, Ladybug does flirt back sometimes, so she's not helping his behavior at all. He does sound more playful than directly aggressive, and again Ladybug used her powers twice to get rid of girls talking to Adrien, so right now it's 2 to 1 for her.

      Not really, she downright knows she can't talk to Adrien, as seen when she downright imitate Marinette during the fantasy with gibberish, so I think she knew it wouldn't work, but decided to support her nonetheless, cause that's what friends are.

      The akuma multiply itself, no? Not really so OC for Adrien. Come on, Marinette appears when he's about to leave, show him her book, and then ask for a salad and other random stuff. Of course he'd be put off. Who ask for a salad out of freaking nowhere? He was putted off by how random her response was, anybody would be. A freaking salad. Not blaming him for being weirded out.

      Is that so? In french it's hard to tell, he always almost have the same tone, it's hard to see if he's serious with his french voice. Should listen to that part in english maybe. He likes to tease Adrien a lot.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Oh, okay,

      Indeed. Can't wait to see her change it.

      Well, I think he just didn't remember the kiss, and Plagg told him he said pretty mean things to her, but he didn't mention the kiss.

      Then again, Ladybug does flirt back sometimes, so she's not helping his behavior at all. He does sound more playful than directly aggressive, and again Ladybug used her powers twice to get rid of girls talking to Adrien, so right now it's 2 to 1 for her.

      Not really, she downright knows she can't talk to Adrien, as seen when she downright imitate Marinette during the fantasy with gibberish, so I think she knew it wouldn't work, but decided to support her nonetheless, cause that's what friends are.

      The akuma multiply itself, no? Not really so OC for Adrien. Come on, Marinette appears when he's about to leave, show him her book, and then ask for a salad and other random stuff. Of course he'd be put off. Who ask for a salad out of freaking nowhere? He was putted off by how random her response was, anybody would be. A freaking salad. Not blaming him for being weirded out.

      Is that so? In french it's hard to tell, he always almost have the same tone, it's hard to see if he's serious with his french voice. Should listen to that part in english maybe. He likes to tease Adrien a lot.

      I dunno, it seems like an inconsistency of Plagg doesn't remember what happened in "Origins" while in the ring, but can remember things Cat Noir said in "Dark Cupid". It makes sense, though, if they saw a video of the fight and either the kiss wasn't part of the video they saw or Adrien quit watching it after a while because he couldn't stand watching himself treat Ladybug so badly.

      Flirting back is not an invitation when she says "no". I think they're just as bad as each other.

      But you said: "Alix knows she crush on Adrien and knows how she is around him, so maybe she tried to help with that, or just laugh at what will really happens, Marinette not ending with Adrien alone". You flat-out said she might have gone there just to laugh at Marinette's inevitable failure.

      OC is "Original Character", OOC is "Out Of Character". What about the akumas? Yes, they multiply, what about it? Wouldn't Hawk Moth be ok with that? And who's to say it can multiply despite not akumatising someone first? The one we see that does multiply turned people into copies of Stoneheart, so it's probably unable to copy itself unless it's akumatised before. Otherwise, Hawk Moth would create multiple akumas at once by just not sending the akuma off.

      Adrien views Marinette as someone who is easily flustered, so he shouldn't be put-out by what she says. He has a high opinion of her, and knows communication is not her strong point. So I find it a little odd, especially since, like I said, he wasn't really giving the impression he found what she said weird so much as he did not want to be around her until he offered her a ride. Maybe it's because I couldn't understand what was being said but his tone, expression, and body language felt really off to me.

      It was his tone and the way he speaks, and the context of the scene. In English, which I bring up because the show is animated to it, he says "Your father must never know I exist!", which is out of line with Plagg's usual speech pattern. He's usually much more simple in his way of speaking and "must never" is, in English, more formal-sounding than "can't". Right before that he's pretty calmly being held in Adrien's fist but when Adrien brings up his dad, Plagg suddenly flies out of Adrien's hand and says the line, then adds "or anyone, for that matter".

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    • How does that Tarzan song go again? "It's all so close and yet so far"?

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    • TheBlackDemon1996 wrote:
      Coupon Boy wrote:
      I just found out that the production code for this episode is 213, meaning this is technically the "mid-season finale". This probably means the five episodes of the first half of the season that haven't been released yet will make no mention of the Kwamies knowing the heroes' identities. This also probably means none of the new heroes will make their debut until the second half of the season (perhaps in response to Black Owl?). The only significant plot events likely to take place during these episodes are Luka's introduction, Lila's reappearance and more redeeming character development for Chloe.
      I'm not entirely sure that's true... that might just be the order it was made.  They could have made this one last because they wanted to get the scene right.  It's hard to tell because it seems Thomas can't make up his mind on which order these episodes go in...

      Yeah see Gravity Falls is a good example of this.  The first episode had the production code "105" despite it being the start of the story.  And the start of second season was "203" despite it taking place directly after the finale of the first season.  So production codes don't indicate the order sometimes.

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    • Huh, Laura Marano ( the character) stars in this. Well what else are they going to do, Add Laura Marano on the episode of her akumitization like Le Befana ? Don't think so.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I dunno, it seems like an inconsistency of Plagg doesn't remember what happened in "Origins" while in the ring, but can remember things Cat Noir said in "Dark Cupid". It makes sense, though, if they saw a video of the fight and either the kiss wasn't part of the video they saw or Adrien quit watching it after a while because he couldn't stand watching himself treat Ladybug so badly.

      Flirting back is not an invitation when she says "no". I think they're just as bad as each other.

      But you said: "Alix knows she crush on Adrien and knows how she is around him, so maybe she tried to help with that, or just laugh at what will really happens, Marinette not ending with Adrien alone". You flat-out said she might have gone there just to laugh at Marinette's inevitable failure.

      OC is "Original Character", OOC is "Out Of Character". What about the akumas? Yes, they multiply, what about it? Wouldn't Hawk Moth be ok with that? And who's to say it can multiply despite not akumatising someone first? The one we see that does multiply turned people into copies of Stoneheart, so it's probably unable to copy itself unless it's akumatised before. Otherwise, Hawk Moth would create multiple akumas at once by just not sending the akuma off.

      Adrien views Marinette as someone who is easily flustered, so he shouldn't be put-out by what she says. He has a high opinion of her, and knows communication is not her strong point. So I find it a little odd, especially since, like I said, he wasn't really giving the impression he found what she said weird so much as he did not want to be around her until he offered her a ride. Maybe it's because I couldn't understand what was being said but his tone, expression, and body language felt really off to me.

      It was his tone and the way he speaks, and the context of the scene. In English, which I bring up because the show is animated to it, he says "Your father must never know I exist!", which is out of line with Plagg's usual speech pattern. He's usually much more simple in his way of speaking and "must never" is, in English, more formal-sounding than "can't". Right before that he's pretty calmly being held in Adrien's fist but when Adrien brings up his dad, Plagg suddenly flies out of Adrien's hand and says the line, then adds "or anyone, for that matter".

      Probably because he was dormant in Origins, after all his miraculous wasn't used before he went to Adrien. It might be different when they don't have a holder and when they have one, they are conscious when they have holders and are sleeping when they don't? Would be pretty boring being conscious for god knows how long in a box.

      Indeed they are, but I also blame it on Adrien having no idea how to flirt propperly, he was a bit akward on his first day of school, standing up yelling present when his name was told. Maybe he tries to be a flirt like the characters he sees in anime? He might shape his behavior after some anime character,t he other half is him being himself, however since he never was allowed much before, I say it comes off wrong, because he acts more on instinct than anything else, then again it must be weird to be able to do what he wants and say what he wants for a change, and since he can now as Chat Noir, he can't stop himself? Maybe? He has years of catch up to do.

      Probably because she knows Marinette well enoguh that she won't be able to say what she wants, and will let Adrien slip away since she can't talk to him properly, which is hilarious in itself, we see Alya laughing at Marinette's antic over Adrien sometimes too. Then again, it's not like Marinette is about to make a fool of herself in front of Paris, it's just sweet Adrien. Not the end of the world that she fails or not, there will be other opportunities, and I think Alix knew that it would take more than that plan before they end up together.

      Well, he can stil be surprised by what she will say, you can't really expect him to actually not being phased when she ask to make a salad, then a bread soup, then a marmalade while she grabbing him by both his arms quite close. I just rewatched that part, in french she says if he would like to make a salade then a bread soup, then marmalade. She corrects herself 3 times while grabbing him and being close to him, invading his personal space very much. No wonder he'd be weirded out. Then again the gorilla made it clear before she finished asking him for a ride that they were in a hurry. I checked google translate to understand what she said after salade, had no idea what was panade, it's bread soup in english, don't misunderstand, Québec and France both speak french, but we have different words and expressions for things sometimes, and I think panade is a french from France thing, cause I never heard that one before. So yeah, quite weird here.

      Okay. I will watch that in english. In french with his voice, it's almost impossible to take him seriously. Not that I mind, his voice his funny in french.

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    • This is completely unrelated to the current discussion so I apologise but was the comic book the first Lucky Charm object without ladybug spots?

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Probably because he was dormant in Origins, after all his miraculous wasn't used before he went to Adrien. It might be different when they don't have a holder and when they have one, they are conscious when they have holders and are sleeping when they don't? Would be pretty boring being conscious for god knows how long in a box.

      Indeed they are, but I also blame it on Adrien having no idea how to flirt propperly, he was a bit akward on his first day of school, standing up yelling present when his name was told. Maybe he tries to be a flirt like the characters he sees in anime? He might shape his behavior after some anime character,t he other half is him being himself, however since he never was allowed much before, I say it comes off wrong, because he acts more on instinct than anything else, then again it must be weird to be able to do what he wants and say what he wants for a change, and since he can now as Chat Noir, he can't stop himself? Maybe? He has years of catch up to do.

      Probably because she knows Marinette well enoguh that she won't be able to say what she wants, and will let Adrien slip away since she can't talk to him properly, which is hilarious in itself, we see Alya laughing at Marinette's antic over Adrien sometimes too. Then again, it's not like Marinette is about to make a fool of herself in front of Paris, it's just sweet Adrien. Not the end of the world that she fails or not, there will be other opportunities, and I think Alix knew that it would take more than that plan before they end up together.

      Well, he can stil be surprised by what she will say, you can't really expect him to actually not being phased when she ask to make a salad, then a bread soup, then a marmalade while she grabbing him by both his arms quite close. I just rewatched that part, in french she says if he would like to make a salade then a bread soup, then marmalade. She corrects herself 3 times while grabbing him and being close to him, invading his personal space very much. No wonder he'd be weirded out. Then again the gorilla made it clear before she finished asking him for a ride that they were in a hurry. I checked google translate to understand what she said after salade, had no idea what was panade, it's bread soup in english, don't misunderstand, Québec and France both speak french, but we have different words and expressions for things sometimes, and I think panade is a french from France thing, cause I never heard that one before. So yeah, quite weird here.

      Okay. I will watch that in english. In french with his voice, it's almost impossible to take him seriously. Not that I mind, his voice his funny in french.

      But he was in the suit for what I'm talking about. For the "did you capture the akuma" bit.

      He does model his flirting on anime and TV, but that doesn't make it okay that he doesn't back off when a girl repeatedly states she is not interested in him and her flirting is inconsistent.

      It still felt weird to me. Like again, I didn't feel he was weirded out. I felt like he did not like Marinette at all and was just trying to be polite. Like he hates her as much as you do and was trying to be nice about it. It all felt really off to me.

      I can't stand his voice in French, but I guess that's just me. I hate it when Japanese voices do the same kind of voice in anime. Like he's talking with cotton balls in his mouth or trying to make fun of someone else's voice.

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    • Son of Nemesis34 wrote:
      This is completely unrelated to the current discussion so I apologise but was the comic book the first Lucky Charm object without ladybug spots?

      Nah, you're good. I'm a pox upon discussion pages.

      I don't believe so, but the sleeve it was in had the Ladybug spots on it. The glitter thrown all over Vanisher and the marbles used to beat Antibug don't have spots. The guitar strings from "Horrificator" and the cheque paper from "Kung Food" also lacked spots. The glitter's container had spots on it, but the glitter inside was pink. The chocolate ice lolly from "Volpina" was also not spotted, but the packaging was.

      Containers and dispensers are red with spots, but the stuff inside or dispensed usually doesn't have spots.

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    • ShinoharaHiroko wrote:
      THESE TWO HAD ONE JOB: TO OPEN THEIR FREAKING EYES.

      Overall, this episode was fantastic, the team that Ladybug and Chat Noir form is wonderful, they are just like an old married couple. How they agree so naturally to work on something together to help Mr.Damocles got me like .. HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

      Okay now, back to the interesting part. The fact that Tikki and Plagg know now the identity of the other partner just made me scream. I just cannot wait to see how the kwamis will now tease Marinette and Adrien about love matters, and with Kagami and Luka coming to the school, it will spice up everything, but I just feel that their love for each other will only grow after the reveal.

      CAN'T. WAIT.

      My love can only grow 


      LOL

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      But he was in the suit for what I'm talking about. For the "did you capture the akuma" bit.

      He does model his flirting on anime and TV, but that doesn't make it okay that he doesn't back off when a girl repeatedly states she is not interested in him and her flirting is inconsistent.

      It still felt weird to me. Like again, I didn't feel he was weirded out. I felt like he did not like Marinette at all and was just trying to be polite. Like he hates her as much as you do and was trying to be nice about it. It all felt really off to me.

      I can't stand his voice in French, but I guess that's just me. I hate it when Japanese voices do the same kind of voice in anime. Like he's talking with cotton balls in his mouth or trying to make fun of someone else's voice.

      I think Astruc said that kwamis were aware of what was happening when they are in their miraculous, but not of everything. They might miss bits here and there. Then again, they might not be watching from the best views, Tikki is seeing from Marinette's left side, and Plagg sees from Adrien's right hand, not the kind of place where you see everything al the time, maybe? 

      I know, I wish he would tone it down too. I wish Marinette stopped stalking him too in his civilian identity too, but maybe they will with Kagami adn Luka, if Kagami appears soon again and if Luka shows up soon, I'm tired of waiting. Also I want to see Lila soon again, where the heck is she?

      He was being polite and seemed happy to see her at first, it's when she grabbed his arms and asked to make a salad that he started to think it was weird, especially since she looked like she was insisting while the gorilla made it clear they had no time to waste. While he might be used to her behavior sometimes, he still doesn't interact so much with her, since normally he's the one who talks to her first, it's rare she comes to him of her own, in Riposte she didn't knew it was him until he took off his helmet. He is sometimes weirded out by her behavior and looks unsure, but I think from her tone and the way she asked him he was kind of put off. Anyone can sometimes, if it sounds so OC to you, is it because you're just so used to see him being kind of okay with her behavior, the one time he ain't, it's looks OC? Even if he does know her, he doesn't know her know her, if you know what I mean, like Alya. Even Alya is sometimes weirded out by Marinette, like when she couldn't believe that Marinette was more occupied with the thought of Adrien whispering to her ear than being punished with cleaning the school. There's a limit to everyhting and everyone, and I think we saw's Adrien's limit with Marinette's behavior. Please, if he hated her as much as I hated her, he wouldn't have even bothered asking her to ride her home. Then again he had a weird day, he almost saw his bodyguard getting akumatized, only for a baby to get the akuma, fighting Gigantitan and all that, and then Marinette walks out there like if a giant baby just hadn't tried to eat anything and made the Eiffel Tower drop like it didn't happen at all, then asked him to make a salad, bread soup and marmalade with the tone of someone almost desperate, judging by the arm grabbing and being really close, she never did that before, she only stutters and backs off all the time, so maybe her getting close to him and touching, which normally she never does, must have being weird. When she does, it's normally because she bumps into him, sometimes by not looking where she's going, sometimes by Alya pushing her into him. She never does it intentionally.

      I don't like the voice either, I find it funny, but I still don't like it. I find a lot of stuff that I don't like funny, but that's part of my autism. Gets on my parents's nerves every time too.

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    • well this sure was an episode

      We got to learn so many stuff. What happens if one of Ladybug's earrings are removed (what happens if she transforms with only one?), and now Tikki and Plagg know who is who. They are obviously gonna keep it a secret though. I did think that this episode was going to be the start of the other superheroes. Ladybug and Cat Noir go missing, Master Fu feels the aura of Hawk Ladybugcatnoirmoth, and he gives off the Miraculouses. Didn't happen though.

      Now, something intresting about Dark Owl's powers is that its all over the place. The akumatized object isn't bounded to him, is a person of its own and has its own powers, while Dark Owl's actual powers are just fightning skills and some tools.

      Although Dark Owl's actual powers could be usefull, they are kinda bland. He has boomerangs, grappling hook and wings. Thaats it. Albert on the other hand, has the ability to make holograms. Which...are also kinda useless.

      The reason the two were the akumas the closest to get the Miraculous were because they planned everything. Albert's power is literally just like Volpina's- once someone notices its all fake, it all goes down. But I gotta admit, kudos to them for not having very amazing powers yet strategyzing such plan. They just lost since Marinette has plan ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ, though they were still forced to remove their Miraculous in front of each other.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      I think Astruc said that kwamis were aware of what was happening when they are in their miraculous, but not of everything. They might miss bits here and there. Then again, they might not be watching from the best views, Tikki is seeing from Marinette's left side, and Plagg sees from Adrien's right hand, not the kind of place where you see everything al the time, maybe? 

      I know, I wish he would tone it down too. I wish Marinette stopped stalking him too in his civilian identity too, but maybe they will with Kagami adn Luka, if Kagami appears soon again and if Luka shows up soon, I'm tired of waiting. Also I want to see Lila soon again, where the heck is she?

      He was being polite and seemed happy to see her at first, it's when she grabbed his arms and asked to make a salad that he started to think it was weird, especially since she looked like she was insisting while the gorilla made it clear they had no time to waste. While he might be used to her behavior sometimes, he still doesn't interact so much with her, since normally he's the one who talks to her first, it's rare she comes to him of her own, in Riposte she didn't knew it was him until he took off his helmet. He is sometimes weirded out by her behavior and looks unsure, but I think from her tone and the way she asked him he was kind of put off. Anyone can sometimes, if it sounds so OC to you, is it because you're just so used to see him being kind of okay with her behavior, the one time he ain't, it's looks OC? Even if he does know her, he doesn't know her know her, if you know what I mean, like Alya. Even Alya is sometimes weirded out by Marinette, like when she couldn't believe that Marinette was more occupied with the thought of Adrien whispering to her ear than being punished with cleaning the school. There's a limit to everyhting and everyone, and I think we saw's Adrien's limit with Marinette's behavior. Please, if he hated her as much as I hated her, he wouldn't have even bothered asking her to ride her home. Then again he had a weird day, he almost saw his bodyguard getting akumatized, only for a baby to get the akuma, fighting Gigantitan and all that, and then Marinette walks out there like if a giant baby just hadn't tried to eat anything and made the Eiffel Tower drop like it didn't happen at all, then asked him to make a salad, bread soup and marmalade with the tone of someone almost desperate, judging by the arm grabbing and being really close, she never did that before, she only stutters and backs off all the time, so maybe her getting close to him and touching, which normally she never does, must have being weird. When she does, it's normally because she bumps into him, sometimes by not looking where she's going, sometimes by Alya pushing her into him. She never does it intentionally.

      I don't like the voice either, I find it funny, but I still don't like it. I find a lot of stuff that I don't like funny, but that's part of my autism. Gets on my parents's nerves every time too.

      That's true, but I think they might be less aware than they are aware. They rarely comment on things and Tikki has never told Marinette to be more careful about hiding her identity from Cat Noir, who has now as of this episode began implying he goes to the same school as she does, as he recognised Damocles.

      Lila could never show up again and I'd be happy. I found nothing to like about her and she's not even a funny kind of bad person. She's just a very selfish, very inconsiderate, very self-centred girl who I can only guess likes Adrien because he's famous, since it's made clear she'd never spoken to him before we see her hauling him off by the way they talk to each other.

      OOC. You mean OOC. OOC is Out Of Character. OC is Original Character. OC, the one you keep using, is like someone making their own fan Miraculous bearer, like if someone made a bearer for the Dragon Miraculous named, I dunno, Ryuko Sasagawa, and she moved from Japan to France just like Kagami and became the bearer of the Dragon Miraculous which has the power of fire and yada yada yada, making stuff up on the fly. OCC is when characters aren't acting like they would normally, like how Alya, who usually deflects Marinette's wild tangeants, brushes her off in favour of her blog in "Volpina" or how in a ridiculous number of fanfics, Adrien curses our Chloe and tells her he hates her.

      Now you bring up Gigantitan himself, why didn't Adrien pass Marinette's awkward behaviour off as being freaked out by nearly being squashed by Gigantitan? That's more something he'd do. Adrien brushes a lot of things off and he's a superhero so he shouldn't be too surprised that there are people who might be really freaked out after it happens. Especially since he is under the impression Marinette is just an easily-flustered person. He should have concluded she was just glad to see a familiar face after the akuma attack. That's more in line with Adrien's character. I maintain that his attitude was off for Adrien. And I only meant I got the "he hates Marinette as much as you do" impression for the period before he offered her the ride. Like he gave off such a strong impression of not wanting to be anywhere near her to me that I was legitimately surprised he asked her if she wanted the ride. I thought he was just going to leave her there.

      I dunno, that kind of voice crops up a lot in things so I think it might just be me.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      That's true, but I think they might be less aware than they are aware. They rarely comment on things and Tikki has never told Marinette to be more careful about hiding her identity from Cat Noir, who has now as of this episode began implying he goes to the same school as she does, as he recognised Damocles.

      Lila could never show up again and I'd be happy. I found nothing to like about her and she's not even a funny kind of bad person. She's just a very selfish, very inconsiderate, very self-centred girl who I can only guess likes Adrien because he's famous, since it's made clear she'd never spoken to him before we see her hauling him off by the way they talk to each other.

      OOC. You mean OOC. OOC is Out Of Character. OC is Original Character. OC, the one you keep using, is like someone making their own fan Miraculous bearer, like if someone made a bearer for the Dragon Miraculous named, I dunno, Ryuko Sasagawa, and she moved from Japan to France just like Kagami and became the bearer of the Dragon Miraculous which has the power of fire and yada yada yada, making stuff up on the fly. OCC is when characters aren't acting like they would normally, like how Alya, who usually deflects Marinette's wild tangeants, brushes her off in favour of her blog in "Volpina" or how in a ridiculous number of fanfics, Adrien curses our Chloe and tells her he hates her.

      Now you bring up Gigantitan himself, why didn't Adrien pass Marinette's awkward behaviour off as being freaked out by nearly being squashed by Gigantitan? That's more something he'd do. Adrien brushes a lot of things off and he's a superhero so he shouldn't be too surprised that there are people who might be really freaked out after it happens. Especially since he is under the impression Marinette is just an easily-flustered person. He should have concluded she was just glad to see a familiar face after the akuma attack. That's more in line with Adrien's character. I maintain that his attitude was off for Adrien. And I only meant I got the "he hates Marinette as much as you do" impression for the period before he offered her the ride. Like he gave off such a strong impression of not wanting to be anywhere near her to me that I was legitimately surprised he asked her if she wanted the ride. I thought he was just going to leave her there.

      I dunno, that kind of voice crops up a lot in things so I think it might just be me.

      Probably because in Dark Owl, Damocles as been going around as the owl for a while now, and maybe Ladybug said it before him, and he called him liek that after Ladybug said it was Damocles. Can you blame him? Ladybug goes around calling her akumatized classmates by their real names despite just arriving on the scene, like in Reflekta, she immediatly calls Reflekta Juleka the moment she's face to face, in front of Chloé, and neither Reflekta nor Chloé raise an eyebrows about it. He might slips, but a lot less than Ladybug. He seems to put more effort into it at least.

      That was also our opinion on Chloé for the entire first season, and she still had fans. After Despair Bear, we finally got some depths to her character, and it took a season. So I wouldn't be surprised if Lila got her reasons too, but maybe we won't see them this season, or the other one. Maybe in season 4? They didn't explore her character much, she just arrives, makes up lies to everyone and refuse to apologize by the end, and that's about it. No reasons or excuses for her behavior at all. They almost made her look like she had absolutely zero substance apart from being an unpleasant, lying, stealing and sneaky girl. At least we could see with Chloé that her father was pretty much the reason she was like this, not letting her being blamed, getting everything she wants and getting no punishment obviously makes her behavior understandable. With Lila, we got nothing. Heck, we get even some bits with Hawk Moth, now we know he's Gabriel, we almost understand his motivations. His wife going missing messed him up good, I think. 

      OH MY GOSH I'M SO SORRY!!!! Urgh, should have known I wasn't writing it right, my bad. I meant OOC indeed. That one's on me.

      Maybe Adrien did, but we don't hear his thoughts, then agian we never hear anyone's thoughts, they say them out loud. His bodyguard didn't let him much think about what he would answer her. Maybe that's why he was put off. She was relieved to see a familiar face after the attack, then ask to make a salad with her, right, what? Out of character for Marinette much maybe too, from his perspective? There is flustered and flustered, and even that was weird coming from her, from his side. It's not like he pratically shoved her away, he was just uncomfortable, she doesn't usually comes so close to him on her own. Then again he just talks about her from what he sees, like Marinette daydreams about him on what she sees from him, she doesn't see more of his sides like Nino does, or when she does like in Gamer, she almost rejects it by saying how great he is, not accepting he talks negatively about himself, because in her mind he is perfect, and cannot be sad. Because after giant babies who made the eiffel tower crash down, the first thing people say after seeing a familiar face after that is to ask to make salad. Why is it so wrong to actually have Adrien beign weirded out by Marinette's behavior for once, he wasn't a jerk about it, just uncomfortable, you seems to take it out really far away for something like that that can actually be possible, unlike the more extreme ways he could have gone about it, like yelling at her or telling her to scram. Right now, no offense, but you seems to not believe anything I say anymore that can actually being rationalized here, come on. She still surprises him, so what? He didn't know what to make of it, and he was still polite about it, even thought he was a putted off, and yet he still decided to be a gentleman about it and offer her a ride home, maybe he thought she could need a rest, after that day? Maybe he thought it was from the stress of the attack, maybe it was from being tired, if she was around, she might have run a lot to avoid being tasted/trampled on? Anyway, why couldn't he be weirded out about her behavior anyway? He doesn't know her as well as Nino, he might have just seen another side of her and he thoguht it was weird, ever thought you knew someone and then they do something out of character, even if you think your used to it by now? That's was probably the case with him, it's not like in Volpina, like he was gobing everything Lila told him despite him being Chat Noir, he wasn't being stupid in Gigantitan. Even so, I think in his book, it still wouldn't be right to not offer her a ride home after she asked to spend time with him despite actually backing off after realising it wasn't a good time, it's him being nice and sweet like he usually is, I think. There's only so much he can and will brush off, but now it was an exception. Is he allowed to? I think yes.

      Back on Plagg's french voice, he weirds me out everytime, especially when he laughs.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Probably because in Dark Owl, Damocles as been going around as the owl for a while now, and maybe Ladybug said it before him, and he called him liek that after Ladybug said it was Damocles. Can you blame him? Ladybug goes around calling her akumatized classmates by their real names despite just arriving on the scene, like in Reflekta, she immediatly calls Reflekta Juleka the moment she's face to face, in front of Chloé, and neither Reflekta nor Chloé raise an eyebrows about it. He might slips, but a lot less than Ladybug. He seems to put more effort into it at least.

      That was also our opinion on Chloé for the entire first season, and she still had fans. After Despair Bear, we finally got some depths to her character, and it took a season. So I wouldn't be surprised if Lila got her reasons too, but maybe we won't see them this season, or the other one. Maybe in season 4? They didn't explore her character much, she just arrives, makes up lies to everyone and refuse to apologize by the end, and that's about it. No reasons or excuses for her behavior at all. They almost made her look liek she had absolutely zero substance apart from being an unpleasant, lying, stealing and sneaky girl. At least we could see with Chloé that her father was pretty much the reason she was like this, not letting her being blamed, getting everything she wants and getting no punishment obviously makes her behavior understandable. With Lila, we got nothing. Heck, we get even some bits with Hawk Moth, now we know he's Gabriel, we almost understand his motivations. His wife going missing messed him up good, I think. 

      OH MY GOSH I'M SO SORRY!!!! Urgh, should have known I wasn't writing it right, my bad. I meant OOC indeed. That one's on me. Maybe Adrien did, but we don't hear his thoughts, then agian we never hear anyone's thoughts, they say them out loud. His bodyguard didn't let him much think about what he would answer her. Maybe that's why he was put off. She was relieved to see a familiar face after the attack, then ask to make a salad with her, right, what? Out of character for Marinette much maybe too, from his perspective? There is flustered and flustered, and even that was weird coming from her, from his side. It's not like he pratically shoved her away, he was just uncomfortable, she doesn't usually comes so close to him on her own. Then again he just talks about her from what he sees, like Marinette daydreams about him on what she sees from him, she doesn't see more of his sides like Nino does, or when she does like in Gamer, she almost rejects it by saying how great he is, not accepting he talks negatively about himself, because in her mind he is perfect, and cannot be sad. Because after giant babies who made the eiffel tower crash down, the first thing people say after seeing a familiar face after that is to ask to make salad. Why is it so wrong to actually have Adrien beign weirded out by Marinette's behavior for once, he wasn't a jerk about it, just uncomfortable, you seems to take it out really far away for something like that that can actually be possible, unlike the more extreme ways he could have gone about it, like yelling at her or telling her to scram. Right now, no offense, but you seems to not believe anything I say anymore that can actually being rationalized here, come on. She still surprises him, so what? He didn't know what to make of it, and he was still polite about it, even thought he was a putted off, and yet he still decided to be a gentleman about it and offer her a ride home, maybe he thoguht she could need a rest, after that day? Maybe he thought it was from the stress of the attack, maybe it was from being tired, if she was around, she might have run a lot to avoid being tasted/trampled on? Anyway, why couldn't he be weirded out about her behavior anyway? He doesn't know her as well as Nino, he might have just seen another side of her and he thoguht it was weird, ever thought you knew someone and then they do something out of character, even if you think your used to it by now? That's was probably the case with him, it's not like in Volpina, like he was gobing everything Lila told him despite him being Chat Noir, he wasn't being stupid in Gigantitan. Even so, I think in his book, it still wouldn't be right to not offer her a ride home after she asked to spend time with him despite actually backing off after realising it wasn't a good time, it's him being nice and sweet like he usually is, I think.

      Not just you, believe me. He weirds me out everyttime, especially when he laughs.

      He's definitely loads more careful. No arguments there.

      Chloe was at least a funny kind of jerk (sometimes) because of how petty she was, how she seems to not be taken too seriously, and she often got comeuppance. Lila? Not so much. She never got comeuppance, people are quick to excuse her, most people have no clue she lied, Adrien probably pities her and will give her a second chance, and everything is perfect for Lila. Adrien isn't going to rat out her lies, and Marinette can't call her out.

      No need to all caps it, I just already corrected you lol and so I figured you missed it and needed to make more of a note of it. Feel free to laugh at the character I made up on the fly, her name literally means "Dragon Girl". I was trying to go for something cliche, but Sasagawa was the first family name I thought of and isn't as cliche as it could have been or the name of an anime protagonist.

      I don't mean to come across that way. I'm sorry. I probably am reading too much into it, especially because that is an episode I watched without subtitles so I have absolutely no clue what most of the dialogue was aside from what I've been told. But reading Adrien's body language? The fact that he didn't smile? That he seemed to only be offering her a ride out of politeness? That he didn't seem remotely happy to see her? That he, to my memory, is leaning away from her and seems to want to be anywhere else? It feels off to me from Adrien, who is usually very easygoing and kind. Maybe I need to see the scene again with subtitles or dubbed. When I was watching the scene, having only the tone of their voices, their expressions, and their body language to go on, Adrien's actions didn't feel like he was in a hurry or like he was weirded out by Marinette. It felt like he wanted to be anywhere else but near Marinette.

      It's probably a direct result of not understanding the dialogue, but this is how the scene looks to me, someone who can't understand more than one set of words in the entire exchange: Marinette hails Adrien and awkwardly attempts to get him to go somewhere with her so she could show him something in her sketchbook, and Adrien was trying to get away from her without directly saying so. Marinette was pleading with him, maybe saying it wouldn't take long. Adrien tells her he needs to go, and then offers her a ride, but then her nerves get the better of her and she turns him down, saying soemthing about couscous (someone above has told me this isn't what she was saying, she was talking about the rickshaw, but I do know of the dish and it's such a random dish that it actually sounds like something Marinette would pull out of thin air to say she needs to go home and make), to which Adrien tells her "bon apetite" (confirming, in my head at the time, that she DID say "couscous", since I didn't understand the rest of the exchange). That impression is still there now that you're telling me she was trying to ask him out to eat with her during the parts where I thought she was trying to get him to hang out with her for a little bit to look at her sketches. Without knowing the full exchange, without knowing a single thing Adrien says aside from "enjoy your meal", that's just how the scene looks to me. Like now i looks like Marinette finally plucked up the courage to ask Adrien out, but since I didn't understand a word he said other than "bon apetite", his body language, tone, and expressions communicated to me he wanted to just get away from her, not helped by Marinette's kinda desperate (actually embarrassed) posture and unsteady tone. I thought her feelings had gotten hurt.

      Like I do see how you could see it the way you do, I do. It does, I guess, make sense, certainly more than how I see the scene. But that isn't how I interpreted the scene and it's still how it looks since I have no idea what Adrien said to anything Marinette said. I could say that you aren't believing me, either. Your putting the blame firmly on Marinette being creepy for his attitude, where I think it was some kind of error in the writing, animation, or acting. Adrien never acts like that, even towards Chloe. He's usually at least got a patient tone to his voice or a smile. I don't remember him smiling and his tone didn't sound patient to me.

      Anyway, enough about "Gigantitan"... "Dark Owl" might be my favourite episode just for the Adam West era of Batman jokes and how they used the general silliness of that show to make Dark Owl into one of the more significant threats and the closest to obtaining the Miraculouses. I really do kind of hope that now that Tikki and Plagg know who the other's Miraculous bearer is that there is an akuma (akuma pair?) that manages to try and grab their Miraculouses and switches the kwamis in the Miraculouses, so Marinette now has Earrings of the Black Cat and Adrien now has a Ring of the Ladybug. Because the kwami and everything were totally swapped, just not the physical Miraculous itself, they still function like normal, but they have to try and learn to use each other's powers or get switched back. It'd be an excellent opportunity for Adrien to take the reigns of the fight, too, since he'd then have the power to purify akumas, which is part of why Ladybug has asserted dominance in their partnership. It also might teach Ladybug some humility and get her to rely on Cat Noir more. The swap forces a detransformation, but neither akuma sees it because Ladybug and Cat Noir manage to get out of their grasp first, and neither sees the other detransform. Now that Tikki and Plagg know, I hope they actually do something instead of just ignoring it and treating it like it never happened like people think.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      He's definitely loads more careful. No arguments there.

      Chloe was at least a funny kind of jerk (sometimes) because of how petty she was, how she seems to not be taken too seriously, and she often got comeuppance. Lila? Not so much. She never got comeuppance, people are quick to excuse her, most people have no clue she lied, Adrien probably pities her and will give her a second chance, and everything is perfect for Lila. Adrien isn't going to rat out her lies, and Marinette can't call her out.

      No need to all caps it, I just already corrected you lol and so I figured you missed it and needed to make more of a note of it. Feel free to laugh at the character I made up on the fly, her name literally means "Dragon Girl". I was trying to go for something cliche, but Sasagawa was the first family name I thought of and isn't as cliche as it could have been or the name of an anime protagonist.

      I don't mean to come across that way. I'm sorry. I probably am reading too much into it, especially because that is an episode I watched without subtitles so I have absolutely no clue what most of the dialogue was aside from what I've been told. But reading Adrien's body language? The fact that he didn't smile? That he seemed to only be offering her a ride out of politeness? That he didn't seem remotely happy to see her? That he, to my memory, is leaning away from her and seems to want to be anywhere else? It feels off to me from Adrien, who is usually very easygoing and kind. Maybe I need to see the scene again with subtitles or dubbed. When I was watching the scene, having only the tone of their voices, their expressions, and their body language to go on, Adrien's actions didn't feel like he was in a hurry or like he was weirded out by Marinette. It felt like he wanted to be anywhere else but near Marinette.

      It's probably a direct result of not understanding the dialogue, but this is how the scene looks to me, someone who can't understand more than one set of words in the entire exchange: Marinette hails Adrien and awkwardly attempts to get him to go somewhere with her so she could show him something in her sketchbook, and Adrien was trying to get away from her without directly saying so. Marinette was pleading with him, maybe saying it wouldn't take long. Adrien tells her he needs to go, and then offers her a ride, but then her nerves get the better of her and she turns him down, saying soemthing about couscous (someone above has told me this isn't what she was saying, she was talking about the rickshaw, but I do know of the dish and it's such a random dish that it actually sounds like something Marinette would pull out of thin air to say she needs to go home and make), to which Adrien tells her "bon apetite" (confirming, in my head at the time, that she DID say "couscous", since I didn't understand the rest of the exchange). That impression is still there now that you're telling me she was trying to ask him out to eat with her during the parts where I thought she was trying to get him to hang out with her for a little bit to look at her sketches. Without knowing the full exchange, without knowing a single thing Adrien says aside from "enjoy your meal", that's just how the scene looks to me. Like now i looks like Marinette finally plucked up the courage to ask Adrien out, but since I didn't understand a word he said other than "bon apetite", his body language, tone, and expressions communicated to me he wanted to just get away from her, not helped by Marinette's kinda desperate (actually embarrassed) posture and unsteady tone. I thought her feelings had gotten hurt.

      Like I do see how you could see it the way you do, I do. It does, I guess, make sense, certainly more than how I see the scene. But that isn't how I interpreted the scene and it's still how it looks since I have no idea what Adrien said to anything Marinette said. I could say that you aren't believing me, either. Your putting the blame firmly on Marinette being creepy for his attitude, where I think it was some kind of error in the writing, animation, or acting. Adrien never acts like that, even towards Chloe. He's usually at least got a patient tone to his voice or a smile. I don't remember him smiling and his tone didn't sound patient to me.

      Anyway, enough about "Gigantitan"... "Dark Owl" might be my favourite episode just for the Adam West era of Batman jokes and how they used the general silliness of that show to make Dark Owl into one of the more significant threats and the closest to obtaining the Miraculouses. I really do kind of hope that now that Tikki and Plagg know who the other's Miraculous bearer is that there is an akuma (akuma pair?) that manages to try and grab their Miraculouses and switches the kwamis in the Miraculouses, so Marinette now has Earrings of the Black Cat and Adrien now has a Ring of the Ladybug. Because the kwami and everything were totally swapped, just not the physical Miraculous itself, they still function like normal, but they have to try and learn to use each other's powers or get switched back. It'd be an excellent opportunity for Adrien to take the reigns of the fight, too, since he'd then have the power to purify akumas, which is part of why Ladybug has asserted dominance in their partnership. It also might teach Ladybug some humility and get her to rely on Cat Noir more. The swap forces a detransformation, but neither akuma sees it because Ladybug and Cat Noir manage to get out of their grasp first, and neither sees the other detransform. Now that Tikki and Plagg know, I hope they actually do something instead of just ignoring it and treating it like it never happened like people think.

      Yup he is, which I find quite ironic considering it's Ladybug who insist all the time to keep their identities secret, yet she slips up all the time, while he is able to catch himself before he finish. I find that interesting.

      You think she was a funny jerk sometimes? I didn't think so, althought I could justify her actions, and she didn't seem to be worse for wear even after she got some punishements thanks to the akumas, but she did have Antibug, Origins, the Christmas special and Despair Bear that showed that she could be nice and care toward Sabrina and Adrien. Lila just had an episode, and they went quite wrong with her, mostly because they didn't give any hint of why she would act like that, while we see Chloé's dad throwing his weights around or buying her what she wants, not helping her attitude at all, which is true in real life. I guess we'll have to see more of Lila to see if she could be redeemed, but it might not be this season or the third one. Other characters to introduce too and all that. I see they didn't make the same mistake with Kagami thought, they gave her some background, showed both her good and bad side and also she could apologize and change her way of thinking, maybe that's why she was so liked. I still think she'll be aggressive when she'll fence though.

      Oh, is that so? It wasn't that bad, you know. I was more concerned with my spectacular miswriting more than with you OC's name. I've seen weirder, yours is cute.

      Oh right, you didn't watch it in your language, and they have no subtitles yet. My bad. That explains everything, then. Sorry about the misunderstanding, you should have said that from the beginning, or maybe you did and I don't remember, cause you were starting to drive me nuts with your reasonning a bit. But now I know it's just because you have no clue of what they said, haha, my bad. Oh, but know that while I told you what they were saying, that might not end up like this in english, they don't translate it much good, since they sometimes changes the dialogues completely, and we see things in english that don't happen in french, like Kagami being mistaken for a boy or Ladybug saying Chat Noir is better at fencing than her, which is not present in the french dub. Don,t know how it will come out in english, but she might ends up swapping the last word of her sentence for something else entirely. So please don't blame me if you totally don't have the same things as I do in french, I wish I could dub this in enlgish so it could be more in line with the canon french, but that ain't gonna happen. *cries in a corner*

      I didn't believe your reasonning just because I thought you knew what they said, but I know now it wasn't the case, so that one's on me again. Sorry about that. He did lose his patience with his father in Simon Says as Chat Noir, so maybe he'll come out of his shell more as Adrien, he told off Chloé in Despair Bear, so he might get more and more assertive as Adrien too.

      I hope too. Imagine Adrien with Tikki, he would wish she would be his kwami forever. They would eat cookies together and stuff. Marinette would feel bad for Chat Noir to have to put up with Plagg's behavior, and might be a bit nicer to him. Could be fun to watch. 

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      OfficialSkyflower wrote:
      This is definitely one of my favorite episodes so far. When they got stuck in the crate, it reminded me that we were promised a scene in which Adrien and Marinette would be stuck in a cage...but I had no idea it would end up like that!

      At first, I thought that Hawk Moth actually had their Miraculouses and I thought, "Uh oh, please tell me there is a part two to this!" But when I realized it was fake, I was both disappointed and relieved. Disappointed because it would show another possibility for a two-parter epiosode (besides the Origins) and relieved because Hawk Moth didn't possess the ultimate and dangerous power both of Ladybug's and Cat Noir's Miraculous have combined. Who knows what could've happened then...

      I wanted to have at least ONE of them open their eyes. That would be cool. But at least the kwamis know besides Master Fu. What would be hilarious is if Plagg says, "By the way, Adrien, your love is actually the shy girl that has a huge crush on you." And Adrien would just be like: O-O

      "Plagg!" Lol

      Even though I thought this to be a filler episode from the beginning when Mr. Damocles was trying (key word: trying) to be a good superhero, it really shocked me. It really did. Season 2 is just blowing me away right now.

      It was definitely a Wham Episode. DEFINITELY.

      I figured immediately they hadn't given over the real Miraculouses, but I was surprised they gave us more information about Hawk Moth's ultimate goal.

      Well, considering Adrien is cheerfully oblivious/in denial that Marinette is crushing on him, Plagg would have to be more specific, ha xD

      Mh, I dunno if it's that big of a Wham Episode, considering most of it was silliness and references to the 60's Batman TV show. Which the fact that the reference goes over a lot of people's heads makes me feel rather old even though I only know it because it was on one of those networks that show old TV shows when I was a kid. "The Collector" was a Wham Episode. This one I think had Wham Lines but wouldn't quite make it for a full episode. It's got more like a Wham Scene.

      True, now that I think about it...

      When I saw the trailer, I was screaming and thinking, "I MUST WATCH THIS!" XD

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    • DespairBears wrote:
      Huh, Laura Marano ( the character) stars in this. Well what else are they going to do, Add Laura Marano on the episode of her akumitization like Le Befana ? Don't think so.

      Yeah, they are. She's supposed to be akumatised in an upcoming episode.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Yup he is, which I find quite ironic considering it's Ladybug who insist all the time to keep their identities secret, yet she slips up all the time, while he is able to catch himself before he finish. I find that interesting.

      You think she was a funny jerk sometimes? I didn't think so, althought I could justify her actions, and she didn't seem to be worse for wear even after she got some punishements thanks to the akumas, but she did have Antibug, Origins, the Christmas special and Despair Bear that showed that she could be nice and care toward Sabrina and Adrien. Lila just had an episode, and they went quite wrong with her, mostly because they didn't give any hint of why she would act like that, while we see Chloé's dad throwing his weights around or buying her what she wants, not helping her attitude at all, which is true in real life. I guess we'll have to see more of Lila to see if she could be redeemed, but it might not be this season or the third one. Other characters to introduce too and all that. I see they didn't make the same mistake with Kagami thought, they gave her some background, showed both her good and bad side and also she could apologize and change her way of thinking, maybe that's why she was so liked. I still think she'll be aggressive when she'll fence though.

      Oh, is that so? It wasn't that bad, you know. I was more concerned with my spectacular miswriting more than with you OC's name. I've seen weirder, yours is cute.

      Oh right, you didn't watch it in your language, and they have no subtitles yet. My bad. That explains everything, then. Sorry about the misunderstanding, you should have said that from the beginning, or maybe you did and I don't remember, cause you were starting to drive me nuts with your reasonning a bit. But now I know it's just because you have no clue of what they said, haha, my bad. Oh, but know that while I told you what they were saying, that might not end up like this in english, they don't translate it much good, since they sometimes changes the dialogues completely, and we see things in english that don't happen in french, like Kagami being mistaken for a boy or Ladybug saying Chat Noir is better at fencing than her, which is not present in the french dub. Don,t know how it will come out in english, but she might ends up swapping the last word of her sentence for something else entirely. So please don't blame me if you totally don't have the same things as I do in french, I wish I could dub this in enlgish so it could be more in line with the canon french, but that ain't gonna happen. *cries in a corner*

      I didn't believe your reasonning just because I thought you knew what they said, but I know now it wasn't the case, so that one's on me again. Sorry about that. He did lose his patience with his father in Simon Says as Chat Noir, so maybe he'll come out of his shell more as Adrien, he told off Chloé in Despair Bear, so he might get more and more assertive as Adrien too.

      I hope too. Imagine Adrien with Tikki, he would wish she would be his kwami forever. They would eat cookies together and stuff. Marinette would feel bad for Chat Noir to have to put up with Plagg's behavior, and might be a bit nicer to him. Could be fun to watch. 

      I think it's a result of both refusing to consider she knows Cat Noir outside the suit (this is mentioned in "Lady Wifi") and how she doesn't seem to personally want to not tell him ("Lady Wifi" she was pretty sad about it, and there was no reason for them to detransform face-to-face in "Dark Owl", they could have faced opposing directions and it's dark enough in there that they could have stood at opposing sides of the shipping crate). 

      She was funny because she was so over-the-top, I think. Since they didn't give Lila redeeming qualities like they've given everyone else, even Hawk Moth (who does seem to intend to keep his promises to help his victims get what they want as long as they don't get too distracted. Evillustrator's plans changed when Marinette asked him to leave Chloé alone, derailing Hawk Moth's intention to have him get what he wants), she might be intended to be irredeemable. Lila could just be the lying, attention-seeking brat we see in the episode. She's meant, I think, to be a foil to Chloé. Chloé is also selfish and attention-seeking, but there at least seems to be a reason for it, either because of her mother (be it because she abandoned the family or because she makes Chloé feel she isn't good enough), or because her father spoils her.

      It was the most cliché name I could think of. I have actual characters, though nothing especially serious (Ingrid Cherry/Ladybird, Ridwan Faulkner/Nightclaw [former Ladybug and Black Cat], Benjamin Potter/Lepori [a White Rabbit], and Madeleine Roche/Medusa Butterfly [an akuma victim]). 

      I've said a few times, on the "Gigantitan" discussion page, that I haven't seen it with subs. Think I might've said so here, too. I definitely kept mentioning the visuals and tone. I know I've said it a few times, though. The show's animated to the English script for some reason, so what I don't get is why if that's how they do things, why they don't insist more that they match. It makes Marinette look even weirder in the French dub than she already is. The English dub also puts her more sympathetically than the French one does, like some of the things you might hate about her aren't in the English dub, like the one you brought up about how she compliments Cat Noir's fencing in English but doesn't do so in French. But I don't think they'll change too much of what they say in that scene.

      I think Tikki would give Adrien some much-needed sympathy and advice, things Plagg doesn't usually do (sympathy he does, but not verbally), where Plagg... gosh I dunno, imagine if he finds ou about how Marinette knows Adrien's schedule? I can't decide if he'd laugh his head off because there's no way he isn't going to tell Adrien, or if he'd be baffled by it and tell her flat-out that she's weird/crazy/creepy. Maybe both.

      Still, though... you know, I want to bring up something (again): Hawk Moth's wish. We know now he wants to "erase" an ambiguous something from the past. What could he want to erase? His wife's disappearance? The vacation they took? Adrien's birth (this seems weird considering how he does seem to genuinely care about Adrien)? The creation of the Miraculouses? Something that happened in his wife's past that drove her to leave? I don't think he specifically says "my" past, but "the" past, so it's not limited to his own past.

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    • OfficialSkyflower wrote:
      DespairBears wrote:
      Huh, Laura Marano ( the character) stars in this. Well what else are they going to do, Add Laura Marano on the episode of her akumitization like Le Befana ? Don't think so.
      Yeah, they are. She's supposed to be akumatised in an upcoming episode.

      Yep, it's called Rossignoble.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I think it's a result of both refusing to consider she knows Cat Noir outside the suit (this is mentioned in "Lady Wifi") and how she doesn't seem to personally want to not tell him ("Lady Wifi" she was pretty sad about it, and there was no reason for them to detransform face-to-face in "Dark Owl", they could have faced opposing directions and it's dark enough in there that they could have stood at opposing sides of the shipping crate). 

      She was funny because she was so over-the-top, I think. Since they didn't give Lila redeeming qualities like they've given everyone else, even Hawk Moth (who does seem to intend to keep his promises to help his victims get what they want as long as they don't get too distracted. Evillustrator's plans changed when Marinette asked him to leave Chloé alone, derailing Hawk Moth's intention to have him get what he wants), she might be intended to be irredeemable. Lila could just be the lying, attention-seeking brat we see in the episode. She's meant, I think, to be a foil to Chloé. Chloé is also selfish and attention-seeking, but there at least seems to be a reason for it, either because of her mother (be it because she abandoned the family or because she makes Chloé feel she isn't good enough), or because her father spoils her.

      It was the most cliché name I could think of. I have actual characters, though nothing especially serious (Ingrid Cherry/Ladybird, Ridwan Faulkner/Nightclaw [former Ladybug and Black Cat], Benjamin Potter/Lepori [a White Rabbit], and Madeleine Roche/Medusa Butterfly [an akuma victim]). 

      I've said a few times, on the "Gigantitan" discussion page, that I haven't seen it with subs. Think I might've said so here, too. I definitely kept mentioning the visuals and tone. I know I've said it a few times, though. The show's animated to the English script for some reason, so what I don't get is why if that's how they do things, why they don't insist more that they match. It makes Marinette look even weirder in the French dub than she already is. The English dub also puts her more sympathetically than the French one does, like some of the things you might hate about her aren't in the English dub, like the one you brought up about how she compliments Cat Noir's fencing in English but doesn't do so in French. But I don't think they'll change too much of what they say in that scene.

      I think Tikki would give Adrien some much-needed sympathy and advice, things Plagg doesn't usually do (sympathy he does, but not verbally), where Plagg... gosh I dunno, imagine if he finds ou about how Marinette knows Adrien's schedule? I can't decide if he'd laugh his head off because there's no way he isn't going to tell Adrien, or if he'd be baffled by it and tell her flat-out that she's weird/crazy/creepy. Maybe both.

      Still, though... you know, I want to bring up something (again): Hawk Moth's wish. We know now he wants to "erase" an ambiguous something from the past. What could he want to erase? His wife's disappearance? The vacation they took? Adrien's birth (this seems weird considering how he does seem to genuinely care about Adrien)? The creation of the Miraculouses? Something that happened in his wife's past that drove her to leave? I don't think he specifically says "my" past, but "the" past, so it's not limited to his own past.

      Yeah, that was weird too.

      Well, they still gave her no depths for her behavior at all, so if we get her real backstory someday and it shows she's just a lying brat for the sake of it, oh well. Until then, I'm waiting.

      • wistles* Heh, you sure have some imagination, your names sounds more fancy than the ones I come up with, I'll give you that. Ladybird, eh? 

      Again, I'm sorry about that. Well, they completely changes stuff sometimes, and while it sometimes goes better in french, like Kagami not being mistaken for a boy, sometimes you find it gratting, like in Simon Says, when they say you have her eyes in the english dub, but in french, it's the smile, which looked more appropriate considering Ladybug has blue eyes and Adrien's mom has green eyes, then again he could have reffered as her gentle look in the eyes, but still. Anyway, enough with the translation difference between dubs headache, I ain't ever gonna leave it if I keep talking about it, and I could go on a while about how much on my nerves it gets me sometimes, but like I said, I won't go down that road any longer right now.

      I believe so too, cue some of the fluffiest, most hearthwarming and cutest scenes happening. Adrien needs Tikki so badly. I think Plagg would find it weird indeed that she would stalk Adrien when she keeps saying to Chat Noir that their civilian identities should stay private and secrets. He would be putted off, or call her out on it, maybe? Or just ask her if it's the right way to go about it if she can't talk to him in the first place. He cares about Adrien too, but I think he would feel that only he and Nathalie should know his schedule, somewhat, probably, maybe?

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Yeah, that was weird too.

      Well, they still gave her no depths for her behavior at all, so if we get her real backstory someday and it shows she's just a lying brat for the sake of it, oh well. Until then, I'm waiting.

      • wistles* Heh, you sure have some imagination, your names sounds more fancy than the ones I come up with, I'll give you that. Ladybird, eh? 

      Again, I'm sorry about that. Well, they completely changes stuff sometimes, and while it sometimes goes better in french, like Kagami not being mistaken for a boy, sometimes you find it gratting, like in Simon Says, when they say you have her eyes in the english dub, but in french, it's the smile, which looked more appropriate considering Ladybug has blue eyes and Adrien's mom has green eyes, then again he could have reffered as her gentle look in the eyes, but still. Anyway, enough with the translation difference between dubs headache, I ain't ever gonna leave it if I keep talking about it, and I could go on a while about how much on my nerves it gets me sometimes, but like I said, I won't go down that road any longer right now.

      I believe so too, cue some of the fluffiest, most hearthwarming and cutest scenes happening. Adrien needs Tikki so badly. I think Plagg would find it weird indeed that she would stalk Adrien when she keeps saying to Chat Noir that their civilian identities should stay private and secrets. He would be putted off, or call her out on it, maybe? Or just ask her if it's the right way to go about it if she can't talk to him in the first place. He cares about Adrien too, but I think he would feel that only he and Nathalie should know his schedule, somewhat, probably, maybe?

      Yeah. I mean, I think Lila is meant to replace Chloé, once Chloe becomes nicer.

      Thanks :D I think a lot, and I write for a hobby, so names just come to me. "Ridwan" and "Roche" are actual names from people I've met in my life. Benjamin Potter/Lepori come from Benjamin Bunny and his author, Beatrix Potter, while Lepori comes from Leporidae, the family rabbits and hares come from. "Ladybird" is just another word for "ladybug", along with "ladybeetle".

      I think the "eyes" thing has nothing to do with the colour (on Adrien's side), but the fact that "eyes are the window to the soul". Ladybug meant he literally has the same eyes as her, while Adrien meant something deeper. "Smile" contains the same meaning, since Marinette has a different smile than Mrs Agreste does.

      Well, you always assume that everyone will react that way. You always assume characters are going to tell her off for it, you always say that you think they'll be creeped out by it. You always assume that everyone is going to find her creepy or say something to her about it when they find out. You always think people will get mad at her. It's not even a "they should" thing- it's a "they will". Heck, my original wording, before I thought better of it, was "I can safely bet you're going to assume he'll call her out on it or be creeped out, but I think Plagg might find it hilarious" cuz you always react that way. I'm not criticising you, just pointing out that I 100% knew you were going to say that.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Yeah. I mean, I think Lila is meant to replace Chloé, once Chloe becomes nicer.

      Thanks :D I think a lot, and I write for a hobby, so names just come to me. "Ridwan" and "Roche" are actual names from people I've met in my life. Benjamin Potter/Lepori come from Benjamin Bunny and his author, Beatrix Potter, while Lepori comes from Leporidae, the family rabbits and hares come from. "Ladybird" is just another word for "ladybug", along with "ladybeetle".

      I think the "eyes" thing has nothing to do with the colour (on Adrien's side), but the fact that "eyes are the window to the soul". Ladybug meant he literally has the same eyes as her, while Adrien meant something deeper. "Smile" contains the same meaning, since Marinette has a different smile than Mrs Agreste does.

      Well, you always assume that everyone will react that way. You always assume characters are going to tell her off for it, you always say that you think they'll be creeped out by it. You always assume that everyone is going to find her creepy or say something to her about it when they find out. You always think people will get mad at her. It's not even a "they should" thing- it's a "they will". Heck, my original wording, before I thought better of it, was "I can safely bet you're going to assume he'll call her out on it or be creeped out, but I think Plagg might find it hilarious" cuz you always react that way. I'm not criticising you, just pointing out that I 100% knew you were going to say that.

      And that's too bad, cause I think she could have be a more interesting character than being Chloé number 2, in a different, more sneaky, friendly way that mask her real thoughts, but still. Seems that if they have a mean character becoming nice, there must be a new character introduced to take the place of the bad guy/bully/only mean person of the cast. I'm not counting Hawk Moth on it, he's the main villain, I'm more talking about the daily mean person who cross ways with the hero/es while not being on the big bad side, you know what I mean, right?

      Oh, is that so? Never met people with the name Ridwan and Roche, although I did saw a character named Roche in an anime I saw. I just think scenarios and stuff, and while I would love to write about them, it would take me forever to write chapters, not because I wouldn't know how to put it in words, just because it already takes me a long time just to write my answers back to you, so entire chapters would take me hours, and I think I don't have enough patience or time sometimes for it. I did ask for some requests sometimes or put some input when authors wanted opinions and actually thanked me for it on fanfiction.net, and sometimes on people's tumblr so they could write it on AO3, anonymously there, I only have an account on fanfiction.net. So yeah, I admire your ways of inspirations.

      I suppose so, but it was still weird a bit, and back then I didn't know that expression. If little kids caught on meanings like that, okay.

      Well, don't you think it's bound to happen one day? It would technically be normal for anyone to have this kind of reaction, and I'm sure that while most people on the show seems to brush it off, there is still one person who will call her out on it maybe somedays, Alix is pretty much the closest thing we had to a normal reaction for Marinette's behavior, even thought she ended up brushing it up, she was still right. That gag may end up getting old, or might get enough complains that they will stop taking it as a joke like Chat Noir's flirting and actually do something about it. Vincent Aza's stalking was treated as creepy, but not Marinette, and she isn't really any better than him in that department. Heck, Marinette actually thought it was creepy the way Vincent was going on about it, but even if she doesn't go to the lenght of stalking his dad, she still has his entire schedule so she can plan some things, like stealing his phone in Copycat or help out Alya with her plan in Gigantitan. If Vincent gets that treatment, she should too if she does the same. You get what I mean? Even if it's a show, the characters are bound to have some real life morality. Or if nobody does, it might be because she will have matured enough about her crush to throw the schedule in the trash, as it doesn't get her close to him to know where he is all the time, or might develop feelings for Luka or Chat Noir, maybe both. Or something. It could happen before she gets called out on it too. 

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      And that's too bad, cause I think she could have be a more interesting character than being Chloé number 2, in a different, more sneaky, friendly way that mask her real thoughts, but still. Seems that if they have a mean character becoming nice, there must be a new character introduced to take the place of the bad guy/bully/only mean person of the cast. I'm not counting Hawk Moth on it, he's the main villain, I'm more talking about the daily mean person who cross ways with the hero/es while not being on the big bad side, you know what I mean, right?

      Oh, is that so? Never met people with the name Ridwan and Roche, although I did saw a character named Roche in an anime I saw. I just think scenarios and stuff, and while I would love to write about them, it would take me forever to write chapters, not because I wouldn't know how to put it in words, just because it already takes me a long time just to write my answers back to you, so entire chapters would take me hours, and I think I don't have enough patience or time sometimes for it. I did ask for some requests sometimes or put some input when authors wanted opinions and actually thanked me for it on fanfiction.net, and sometimes on people's tumblr so they could write it on AO3, anonymously there, I only have an account on fanfiction.net. So yeah, I admire your ways of inspirations.

      I suppose so, but it was still weird a bit, and back then I didn't know that expression. If little kids caught on meanings like that, okay.

      Well, don't you think it's bound to happen one day? It would technically be normal for anyone to have this kind of reaction, and I'm sure that while most people on the show seems to brush it off, there is still one person who will call her out on it maybe somedays, Alix is pretty much the closest thing we had to a normal reaction for Marinette's behavior, even thought she ended up brushing it up, she was still right. That gag may end up getting old, or might get enough complains that they will stop taking it as a joke like Chat Noir's flirting and actually do something about it. Vincent Aza's stalking was treated as creepy, but not Marinette, and she isn't really any better than him in that department. Heck, Marinette actually thought it was creepy the way Vincent was going on about it, but even if she doesn't go to the lenght of stalking his dad, she still has his entire schedule so she can plan some things, like stealing his phone in Copycat or help out Alya with her plan in Gigantitan. If Vincent gets that treatment, she should too if she does the same. You get what I mean? Even if it's a show, the characters are bound to have some real life morality. Or if nobody does, it might be because she will have matured enough about her crush to throw the schedule in the trash, as it doesn't get her close to him to know where he is all the time, or might develop feelings for Luka or Chat Noir, maybe both. Or something. It could happen before she gets called out on it too. 

      I think so? I meant she replaces Chloé as the actually kind of cruel, selfish, Libby-type (there's an old TV tropes reference, since The Libby has a new trope name that I can't use per the rules).

      Roche was her last name. Ridwan is the only Ridwan I've ever met. My brain never disengages, so I'm always thinking of stuff and writing. I actually get my replies back to you pretty quick after I see them, since I'm reasonably quick at typing and my thoughts form pretty quickly from years of practice. 'Tis more than one reason I've been compared to Hermione Granger in my life. I just have a problem with completing anything, because I get so many ideas, ha.

      It's a common enough phrase in English that most people, even kids, know it.

      Probably, but you always default to that. You always assume every character is going to react that way. It's not really in Plagg's character to say "hey, this is super creepy". It's more likely he'd laugh and make a mental note to tease Adrien about it when he gets a chance to. What's more in Plagg's character- criticise Marinette and call her out on her behaviour, or tell Adrien that Ladybug is ironically in love with his civilian identity and laugh about it? Consider how Tikki hasn't called her out on it. If Adrien had Tikki and she had Plagg originally, I would agree with you that Tikki might call her out. But Plagg? At the very most he'll tell her she works way too hard to know where one guy is and maybe tell her it's a bit much, but from the standpoint of someone who's lazy, not from someone who thinks she's being a creep.

      Vincent's stalking got the creepy treatment because A) the person who pointed it out is Marinette so it's supposed to be ironic and B) Vincent's stalking was somehow more extreme than Marinette's, since Marinette doesn't exactly rifle through Adrien's garbage every day or stalk his dad, nor does she show up to every single one of Adrien's photoshoots. Vincent probably knows Jagged's habits and schedule, too, considering he followed Jagged all the way to Le Grand Paris.

      Well... knowing he's got fencing every Friday isn't that weird. That's something even Aurore could know. I still know to this day (some 8 years later) that one of the girls in my junior year Chem class always had Pottery during fifth period even though she never told me because I'd see her going there every Thursday when I was at lunch (normally lunch was around 4th period, but on Thursdays, we omitted 1st and 4th period to make the other 4 periods of the day longer). Her knowing everything else is pretty weird, but that specific instance? Not weird. Interestingly, she wasn't stalking him in "Stormy Weather", since she didn't know about Adrien's photoshoot in that episode.

      I really would like for her to realise it's wrong on her own, to be perfectly honest. Like you said, realise knowing where he's going to be doesn't help her get closer to him. I mean sure, she still knows it by heart, but it would be nice to see her forget it as time goes on.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I think so? I meant she replaces Chloé as the actually kind of cruel, selfish, Libby-type (there's an old TV tropes reference, since The Libby has a new trope name that I can't use per the rules).

      Roche was her last name. Ridwan is the only Ridwan I've ever met. My brain never disengages, so I'm always thinking of stuff and writing. I actually get my replies back to you pretty quick after I see them, since I'm reasonably quick at typing and my thoughts form pretty quickly from years of practice. 'Tis more than one reason I've been compared to Hermione Granger in my life. I just have a problem with completing anything, because I get so many ideas, ha.

      It's a common enough phrase in English that most people, even kids, know it.

      Probably, but you always default to that. You always assume every character is going to react that way. It's not really in Plagg's character to say "hey, this is super creepy". It's more likely he'd laugh and make a mental note to tease Adrien about it when he gets a chance to. What's more in Plagg's character- criticise Marinette and call her out on her behaviour, or tell Adrien that Ladybug is ironically in love with his civilian identity and laugh about it? Consider how Tikki hasn't called her out on it. If Adrien had Tikki and she had Plagg originally, I would agree with you that Tikki might call her out. But Plagg? At the very most he'll tell her she works way too hard to know where one guy is and maybe tell her it's a bit much, but from the standpoint of someone who's lazy, not from someone who thinks she's being a creep.

      Vincent's stalking got the creepy treatment because A) the person who pointed it out is Marinette so it's supposed to be ironic and B) Vincent's stalking was somehow more extreme than Marinette's, since Marinette doesn't exactly rifle through Adrien's garbage every day or stalk his dad, nor does she show up to every single one of Adrien's photoshoots. Vincent probably knows Jagged's habits and schedule, too, considering he followed Jagged all the way to Le Grand Paris.

      Well... knowing he's got fencing every Friday isn't that weird. That's something even Aurore could know. I still know to this day (some 8 years later) that one of the girls in my junior year Chem class always had Pottery during fifth period even though she never told me because I'd see her going there every Thursday when I was at lunch (normally lunch was around 4th period, but on Thursdays, we omitted 1st and 4th period to make the other 4 periods of the day longer). Her knowing everything else is pretty weird, but that specific instance? Not weird. Interestingly, she wasn't stalking him in "Stormy Weather", since she didn't know about Adrien's photoshoot in that episode.

      I really would like for her to realise it's wrong on her own, to be perfectly honest. Like you said, realise knowing where he's going to be doesn't help her get closer to him. I mean sure, she still knows it by heart, but it would be nice to see her forget it as time goes on.

      Sabrina the teenage witch, right? With Melissa Joan Hart? Loved that series. They will reboot it, I think, they announced it, if I remember correctly.

      Lucky you, it takes me over 20 minutes to type you back sometimes. I go back fix my mistakes a lot before clicking reply.

      Indeed, in ENGLISH. I speak french first. Remember? English isn't my first language, and if not for my father, I wouldn't be bilingual. Long story short, he moved to Ontario when I was 8 since he was in the military, and spending summer weeks in english camps, since he only had 5 weeks off during the year and took 2 during summer and I spent 6 weeks there, so I couldn't be alone at home until I was 12, so I learned first hand from the english kids and monitors there. Some of the kids understood me better than the adults because they went to french school, but it still sucked a bit to not understand everything that was being said. Good side is that I got pretty good grades in english and it was my favorite subject, guess when you have an advantage over others and without studying, it's more fun. ;) Still, I learn new stuff everyday, even in my language. It's impossible to know every single little things in my language, sometimes i hear an expression in french that I've never heard before, only for my parents to tell me it was pretty common back in their youth. :P Same thing in english, but your expression can mean something else in french, or we also just don't have it, and replace it with something else. Hard to keep track of them all. But know I know this one. And I watched that episode in french first, so I was a bit surprised that it came off as something else in english, on top of not really making sense to me during that time. Mostly because I translate it back in french in my head, so yeah. I learned that expression later when watching Total Drama season 5.

      I default to it because it is prefectly reasonnable to think that way too for the characters. They do have normal reactions, and sometimes their reactions seems quite fictionnal, as in the way of not what someone in real life would think at all, then again it is fiction but still, reality check too, the show takes place on Earth, not antoher dimension or planet wher ealien characters with alien culture and ways of thinking and all that. Aren't you the one who said there is more to Plagg than just being lazy, thinking about cheese and fun? He could actually tell her that's it's not right, cause he witness first hand what Adrien goes through every single day with his life as a model and everyone fawning over him, so he might actually say something about something serious like this. He can actually say insightful things sometimes too, and he does care about Adrien, so him seeing one of his classmates who has trouble talking to him actually have his entire schedule, on top of knowing she is Ladybug, might actually kind of put him off, that or he'll ask her why she ask Chat Noir to not talk about their private life while actually knowing every moves of a guy in her class, which wouldn't be logical in his eyes, even if she has a crush on him, it just doesn't seem right. I'm pretty sure Marinette would just keep diggin her grave by babbling on and explaining to him why it's not the same thing, only to realise she is wrong and he's right. Who says Tikki already did? Then again, sometimes Marinette doesn't listen to her either way. What can a seven centimeter tall little kwami can do with it? She can't take it off of it's place, she has trouble carrying the book, which I find weird, since Plagg had no problem shoving it in Adrien's arms. Maybe he's a bit stronger than her, he lifted a big plate with just his head in Collector.

      She went through the trash in Dark Cupid to know what he wrote, that's how she thought the poem was for her, remember? She still knows enough to say that he leaves his phone in his bag during a photoshoot, which technically means she must at least might have either see him doing it or peeked through his things when he was modeling. It's very detailed enough that Alix found it creepy.

      Well, your situation was diffirent, it was just some analisation and good observation on your part, and just seems okay, although I'm not gonna ask how you noticed she was going at her lesson each time you had lunch, unless she was timed on. She was babysitter Manon, who was giving her quite a bit of trouble, and maybe she doesn't watch it every day? She does say in the Collector that she knew his schedule better than her own, and she does tend to forget that she has things sometimes, like that epic fail of forgetfulness in Prime Queen.

      I hope so, seems a good way to mature about her crush on him.

      I watched Dark Owl in french earlier, it was awesome! So Ladybug called him Damoclès in front of everyone, that's what caused everyone to laugh at him. Alec Cataldi is a jerk, but got a bit better at the end. Marinette was supposed to go sleep at Alya's but had to lie that she would help her parents at the bakery all week because she knew Damoclès would go out as the Owl again, like Adrien was supposed to have online gaming night with Nino all week but couldn't because of Damoclès trying to be the hero, and they decide to let him have his experience so he would be happy and maybe move on so they could have free time back, as they saved him 5 times in one week, and in the end they finally can do what they wanted with their friends, hence why we see Marinette at Alya's place in the end, no doubt gonna sleep over there.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Sabrina the teenage witch, right? With Melissa Joan Hart? Loved that series. They will reboot it, I think, they announced it, if I remember correctly.

      Lucky you, it takes me over 20 minutes to type you back sometimes. I go back fix my mistakes a lot before clicking reply.

      Indeed, in ENGLISH. I speak french first. Remember? English isn't my first language, and if not for my father, I wouldn't be bilingual. Long story short, he moved to Ontario when I was 8 since he was in the military, and spending summer weeks in english camps, since he only had 5 weeks off during the year and took 2 during summer and I spent 6 weeks there, so I couldn't be alone at home until I was 12, so I learned first hand from the english kids and monitors there. Some of the kids understood me better than the adults because they went to french school, but it still sucked a bit to not understand everything that was being said. Good side is that I got pretty good grades in english and it was my favorite subject, guess when you have an advantage over others and without studying, it's more fun. ;) Still, I learn new stuff everyday, even in my language. It's impossible to know every single little things in my language, sometimes i hear an expression in french that I've never heard before, only for my parents to tell me it was pretty common back in their youth. :P Same thing in english, but your expression can mean something else in french, or we also just don't have it, and replace it with something else. Hard to keep track of them all. But know I know this one. And I watched that episode in french first, so I was a bit surprised that it came off as something else in english, on top of not really making sense to me during that time. Mostly because I translate it back in french in my head, so yeah. I learned that expression later when watching Total Drama season 5.

      I default to it because it is prefectly reasonnable to think that way too for the characters. They do have normal reactions, and sometimes their reactions seems quite fictionnal, as in the way of not what someone in real life would think at all, then again it is fiction but still, reality check too, the show takes place on Earth, not antoher dimension or planet wher ealien characters with alien culture and ways of thinking and all that. Aren't you the one who said there is more to Plagg than just being lazy, thinking about cheese and fun? He could actually tell her that's it's not right, cause he witness first hand what Adrien goes through every single day with his life as a model and everyone fawning over him, so he might actually say something about something serious like this. He can actually say insightful things sometimes too, and he does care about Adrien, so him seeing one of his classmates who has trouble talking to him actually have his entire schedule, on top of knowing she is Ladybug, might actually kind of put him off, that or he'll ask her why she ask Chat Noir to not talk about their private life while actually knowing every moves of a guy in her class, which wouldn't be logical in his eyes, even if she has a crush on him, it just doesn't seem right. I'm pretty sure Marinette would just keep diggin her grave by babbling on and explaining to him why it's not the same thing, only to realise she is wrong and he's right. Who says Tikki already did? Then again, sometimes Marinette doesn't listen to her either way. What can a seven centimeter tall little kwami can do with it? She can't take it off of it's place, she has trouble carrying the book, which I find weird, since Plagg had no problem shoving it in Adrien's arms. Maybe he's a bit stronger than her, he lifted a big plate with just his head in Collector.

      She went through the trash in Dark Cupid to know what he wrote, that's how she thought the poem was for her, remember? She still knows enough to say that he leaves his phone in his bag during a photoshoot, which technically means she must at least might have either see him doing it or peeked through his things when he was modeling. It's very detailed enough that Alix found it creepy.

      Well, your situation was diffirent, it was just some analisation and good observation on your part, and just seems okay, although I'm not gonna ask how you noticed she was going at her lesson each time you had lunch, unless she was timed on. She was babysitter Manon, who was giving her quite a bit of trouble, and maybe she doesn't watch it every day? She does say in the Collector that she knew his schedule better than her own, and she does tend to forget that she has things sometimes, like that epic fail of forgetfulness in Prime Queen.

      I hope so, seems a good way to mature about her crush on him.

      I watched Dark Owl in french earlier, it was awesome! So Ladybug called him Damoclès in front of everyone, that's what caused everyone to laugh at him. Alec Cataldi is a jerk, but got a bit better at the end. Marinette was supposed to go sleep at Alya's but had to lie that she would help her parents at the bakery all week because she knew Damoclès would go out as the Owl again, like Adrien was supposed to have online gaming night with Nino all week but couldn't because of Damoclès trying to be the hero, and they decide to let him have his experience so he would be happy and maybe move on so they could have free time back, as they saved him 5 times in one week, and in the end they finally can do what they wanted with their friends, hence why we see Marinette at Alya's place in the end, no doubt gonna sleep over there.

      Yeah. Used to be a trope name, but they changed it.

      So do I. Sometimes I do take long enough the page internally resets and so I just habitually copy what I wrote just in case.

      Yeah, I know. But since the phrase is so common in English, kids know it, that's all I meant. It's one of those things most people just kinda know if English is their first language.

      Yeah, but I was speculating within the realms of his actions in "Volpina" and how it's been said by the creators that Plagg ignoring the Miraculous was "strange". And the fact that I really hope there's more to Plagg than that. You just want someone to call her out very badly, don't much care who it is.

      Plagg I don't think would grill her, at most he'd say something pretty simple, but I also think he'd find the entire thing hilarious. Hilarious because Ladybug is indirectly crazy about Cat Noir, despite spurning his advances, because she's attracted to his civilian identity. Plagg seems to have a schadenfreude thing. Plagg doesn't really think Adrien's lot in life is that bad. He views it as Adrien is pretty much able to do whatever he likes, he just chooses to go to school. He thinks Adrien's relationship with his parents is pretty upsetting and wants Adrien to do stuff for Adrien, but he also encourages Adrien to be lazy. In part because he likes to be lazy, but also for Adrien's sake. Asking Cat Noir to not talk about their private lives (which.... I honestly don't remember that exchange going down, she just doesn't want to know his identity) is a little different because they're superheroes who need to keep their identities a secret for some arbitrary reason that Tikki seems to impose.

      Actually I believe Plagg only threw the book at Adrien. Didn't need to hold it for long. But Plagg may indeed physically have more strength than her.

      She did it the once, and it was Tikki who told her the poem was for her. Vincent was implied to have done it multiple times. Also, Adrien didn't mind in the end. I'm not arguing that what she does is creepy, I'm arguing that Vincent is actually meant to be more extreme than she is. And it's also meant to be ironic, like I said, that she calls Vincent creepy.

      I just noticed her. There was only a 5-minute passing period, so I'd just see her going to Pottery. I never actively looked for her, I'd just see her going. The thing is, it's not at all creey to assume she'd figured out Adrien has Fencing every Friday, since his fencing classes are right after Lunch every day (and apparently before lunch?).

      Ah, I went back to check the transcript- Copycat is the episode that introduced her stalker schedule. Still, it's something she could have learnt on her own.

      You hadn't seen it yet? I watched it with subs. I think also they had to lie because they had patrol to do, since pne of them says something about how they'll have less of a workload with The Owl helping people out now. Alec Cataldi runs on being innocently insensitive. He does it to Aurore, too. He just delivers everything in a cheery tone. Ladybug also turns down Cat Noir's date offer (suggestion of hanging out?) because she already has plans. Much nicer about it than she usually is.

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    • BelieveInMagic814 wrote:


      They were dubbing the episodes yesterday?

      Yup, Keith, Ben and Carrie were in the booth if I remember correctly. It was on Ezra's Instagram story.

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    • I'm a little late on giving my thoughts on the episode but oh well I'm going to.

      I honestly thought that this episode was going to be a filler-ish episode, like Gigantitan. Of course no season 2 episode is supposed to be a filler as Thomas has said, but the episode sounded like it could have been one. In no way did I expect to see an almost reveal, and that scene literally slayed me like everyone else I think I was on Tumblr for a solid hour reblogging every post related to the episode just to convey my emotions lol.

      I LOVED THE SUPERHERO REFERENCES. Part of me feels like Mr Damocles represents Thomas in a way because we all know of his love for superheroes. Definitely the best episode by far - I found myself genuinely cracking up at Miraculous which I haven't done in a while. I love how everyone knew it was Mr Damocles and kept nearly calling him his name rather than "The Owl", the poor man just wanted to be a superhero... I found the Spanish dub of Mr Damocles to be hilarious so English dub better live up to what the Spanish dub achieved. Alya's room was actually room goals - it really suits her personality, much like both Adrien and Marinette's rooms. Mr Damocles has got the closest to obtaining the Miraculous compared to the other villians prior to the episode, the way they stepped up these battles between Hawkmoth and our heroes is incredible, I was on the edge of my seat when LB's earring was taken off.

      Now onto the biggest part of the episode. I can't express how glad I am that it wasn't a reveal. I was so scared that it could be a reveal because as much as I want it to happen, I'd like it in the season finale and not randomly in the first half of season 2. A lot of people are expressing how annoyed they are but I'm so releaved. There's still a lot I want to see from the duo before the reveal happens! Another reason I'm glad they didn't open their eyes is that it showed us the trust they have in each other, that was lovely to watch. Also I was really surprised at the kwami's reactions - I expected them to be the other way around with Plagg not caring as much and Tikki being really surprised - but instead we got given the opposite. I don't think Tikki knew it was Adrien, I just think she's a bit more mature than Plagg (that's the best way I can put it if you get me) so that's why she didn't really show much surprise in my eyes.

      Anyway this has been a mess to write I just wanted to say my thoughts on the episode. I'm so excited for episode 9 now, I just hope they speed up with the episode output after the new year, I hate waiting 2 or 3 weeks for another episode just because I'm too impatient.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Yeah. Used to be a trope name, but they changed it.

      Yeah, I know. But since the phrase is so common in English, kids know it, that's all I meant. It's one of those things most people just kinda know if English is their first language.

      Yeah, but I was speculating within the realms of his actions in "Volpina" and how it's been said by the creators that Plagg ignoring the Miraculous was "strange". And the fact that I really hope there's more to Plagg than that. You just want someone to call her out very badly, don't much care who it is.

      Plagg I don't think would grill her, at most he'd say something pretty simple, but I also think he'd find the entire thing hilarious. Hilarious because Ladybug is indirectly crazy about Cat Noir, despite spurning his advances, because she's attracted to his civilian identity. Plagg seems to have a schadenfreude thing. Plagg doesn't really think Adrien's lot in life is that bad. He views it as Adrien is pretty much able to do whatever he likes, he just chooses to go to school. He thinks Adrien's relationship with his parents is pretty upsetting and wants Adrien to do stuff for Adrien, but he also encourages Adrien to be lazy. In part because he likes to be lazy, but also for Adrien's sake. Asking Cat Noir to not talk about their private lives (which.... I honestly don't remember that exchange going down, she just doesn't want to know his identity) is a little different because they're superheroes who need to keep their identities a secret for some arbitrary reason that Tikki seems to impose.

      Actually I believe Plagg only threw the book at Adrien. Didn't need to hold it for long. But Plagg may indeed physically have more strength than her.

      She did it the once, and it was Tikki who told her the poem was for her. Vincent was implied to have done it multiple times. Also, Adrien didn't mind in the end. I'm not arguing that what she does is creepy, I'm arguing that Vincent is actually meant to be more extreme than she is. And it's also meant to be ironic, like I said, that she calls Vincent creepy.

      I just noticed her. There was only a 5-minute passing period, so I'd just see her going to Pottery. I never actively looked for her, I'd just see her going. The thing is, it's not at all creey to assume she'd figured out Adrien has Fencing every Friday, since his fencing classes are right after Lunch every day (and apparently before lunch?).

      Ah, I went back to check the transcript- Copycat is the episode that introduced her stalker schedule. Still, it's something she could have learnt on her own.

      You hadn't seen it yet? I watched it with subs. I think also they had to lie because they had patrol to do, since pne of them says something about how they'll have less of a workload with The Owl helping people out now. Alec Cataldi runs on being innocently insensitive. He does it to Aurore, too. He just delivers everything in a cheery tone. Ladybug also turns down Cat Noir's date offer (suggestion of hanging out?) because she already has plans. Much nicer about it than she usually is.

      3 time I was reseted. Took me over 2 hours to try and reply. Had to leave the page. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! *cries*

      Indeed.

      Went to english camp, not english school, a bit different, and I didn't understood everything I was told back then.

      I'm sure he will have more focus. Someone has to. It's wrong no matter what she says or think.

      Well, he might find it funny, but might tell her that a guy deserves his privacy too.

      He threw that book like it was nothing. I think that counts for something, considering Tikki could barely lift it.

      Maybe she gave her the push she needed to have the courage to write him a letter? Knowing someone's one class and someone's entire schedule for the year are 2 differents things.

      Who says she didn't have it back in Stormy Weather? With Manon aorund, she couldn't really think of Adrien until Alya gave her a breather.

      I watch it in the first dub it airs, be it spanish or korean. Then will watch it again in french or english.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      3 time I was reseted. Took me over 2 hours to try and reply. Had to leave the page. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! *cries*

      Indeed.

      Went to english camp, not english school, a bit different, and I didn't understood everything I was told back then.

      I'm sure he will have more focus. Someone has to. It's wrong no matter what she says or think.

      Well, he might find it funny, but might tell her that a guy deserves his privacy too.

      He threw that book like it was nothing. I think that counts for something, considering Tikki could barely lift it.

      Maybe she gave her the push she needed to have the courage to write him a letter? Knowing someone's one class and someone's entire schedule for the year are 2 differents things.

      Who says she didn't have it back in Stormy Weather? With Manon aorund, she couldn't really think of Adrien until Alya gave her a breather.

      I watch it in the first dub it airs, be it spanish or korean. Then will watch it again in french or english.

      It's reset on my several times. I just copy everything I wrote, see if it replies, if it fails, refresh the page and try again. Like I'm gonna have to do it with this one beause I'm checking and re-checking external facts.

      English is the hardest and dumbest language, though. I'd hate to try and learn this language after knowing another one that's more sensible like Japanese or French.

      I'm not disagreeing that she's wrong, I disagree with how you assume every single character is going to react with disgust/anger/indignation/criticism and/or being creeped out entirely and telling her as much because that's what you would do and what you want to happen. You seem to want her to be criticised harshly and humiliated, not unlike what she did to Lila, except maybe not in front of Adrien.

      I dunno. Plagg can't exactly be protective of Adrien in the situation we're talking about. Plagg will probably tell her she's put in way too much work, since that's kind of in his personality. He's not especially critical.

      They are different things, but it could be something she learnt by watching him, not by however she got the rest of what she knows. That's what I mean.

      She was surprised by what Alya said, isn't that proof? Marinette is more than capable of getting side-tracked by Adrien, since she outright forgets about Manon when Alya turns up and tells her about Adrien. If she knew about the photoshoot, she'd at least lament about it.

      I do think Marientte is 100% in the wrong with what she does. But I also think you're unwilling to give her some slack in how she learnt the things she knows. Like I said, it's wholly possible she found out Adrien has fencing on Fridays just through random observation or hearing him tell Nino. It's also possible the only things that she actually knows about Adrien is his class schedule (which she has most of her classes with him and again, it wouldn't be hard to learn when his fencing is by accident), when he has photoshoots (which she might have learnt from Alya in the first place, since Alya goes out of her way to set up Marinette and Adrien), and class events that she herself is attending anyway (such as Alix's birthday competition against Kim). We don't know how Marinette knows what she does, and ultimately, she's only found out about the photoshoots through means that can't be explained as being perfectly innocent. Since she shares all of her classes with Adrien (that we know of), all she'd need to learn is when he has fencing. Fencing might only be held at the school on Fridays, or she's simply observed he's got fencing on Fridays.

      On her schedule it says: "rendez-vous avec son père" (knowing he's got a meeting with his dad is pretty creepy but it does only appear once), "sortie avec ses amis" (this is not so bad, knowing he's hanging out with friends on Sunday and Monday), "volontariat au centre de chatons abandonnés" (which is so adorable it's ridiculous, but isn't until 1 June),"déjeuner avec Thomas/Young Son/Adrianaaaa" (since "Thomas" is a reference to Thomas Astruc, I believe the others are also references to people not in the show, so are easter eggs and I personally am not counting them), and then the things about Adrien's basketball practice (can't be games the entire time), Chinese (indicated by the character 木) and fencing practice, a vacation in April that is probably Spring Break, Alix's competition, and four photoshoots, all of which are in the park.

      Most of what she knows are things that aren't hard to learn since they're on the same time every week or they apply to her, too. The weirdest things on the schedule are the meeting with his father, the photoshoots, and his volunteering at the abandoned kitten shelter several months in advance. People seem to act like she knows more weird things than not, but if Adrien has something he does every single solitary week, it's something she can learn without needing to follow him.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      It's reset on my several times. I just copy everything I wrote, see if it replies, if it fails, refresh the page and try again. Like I'm gonna have to do it with this one beause I'm checking and re-checking external facts.

      English is the hardest and dumbest language, though. I'd hate to try and learn this language after knowing another one that's more sensible like Japanese or French.

      I'm not disagreeing that she's wrong, I disagree with how you assume every single character is going to react with disgust/anger/indignation/criticism and/or being creeped out entirely and telling her as much because that's what you would do and what you want to happen. You seem to want her to be criticised harshly and humiliated, not unlike what she did to Lila, except maybe not in front of Adrien.

      I dunno. Plagg can't exactly be protective of Adrien in the situation we're talking about. Plagg will probably tell her she's put in way too much work, since that's kind of in his personality. He's not especially critical.

      They are different things, but it could be something she learnt by watching him, not by however she got the rest of what she knows. That's what I mean.

      She was surprised by what Alya said, isn't that proof? Marinette is more than capable of getting side-tracked by Adrien, since she outright forgets about Manon when Alya turns up and tells her about Adrien. If she knew about the photoshoot, she'd at least lament about it.

      I do think Marientte is 100% in the wrong with what she does. But I also think you're unwilling to give her some slack in how she learnt the things she knows. Like I said, it's wholly possible she found out Adrien has fencing on Fridays just through random observation or hearing him tell Nino. It's also possible the only things that she actually knows about Adrien is his class schedule (which she has most of her classes with him and again, it wouldn't be hard to learn when his fencing is by accident), when he has photoshoots (which she might have learnt from Alya in the first place, since Alya goes out of her way to set up Marinette and Adrien), and class events that she herself is attending anyway (such as Alix's birthday competition against Kim). We don't know how Marinette knows what she does, and ultimately, she's only found out about the photoshoots through means that can't be explained as being perfectly innocent. Since she shares all of her classes with Adrien (that we know of), all she'd need to learn is when he has fencing. Fencing might only be held at the school on Fridays, or she's simply observed he's got fencing on Fridays.

      On her schedule it says: "rendez-vous avec son père" (knowing he's got a meeting with his dad is pretty creepy but it does only appear once), "sortie avec ses amis" (this is not so bad, knowing he's hanging out with friends on Sunday and Monday), "volontariat au centre de chatons abandonnés" (which is so adorable it's ridiculous, but isn't until 1 June),"déjeuner avec Thomas/Young Son/Adrianaaaa" (since "Thomas" is a reference to Thomas Astruc, I believe the others are also references to people not in the show, so are easter eggs and I personally am not counting them), and then the things about Adrien's basketball practice (can't be games the entire time), Chinese (indicated by the character 木) and fencing practice, a vacation in April that is probably Spring Break, Alix's competition, and four photoshoots, all of which are in the park.

      Most of what she knows are things that aren't hard to learn since they're on the same time every week or they apply to her, too. The weirdest things on the schedule are the meeting with his father, the photoshoots, and his volunteering at the abandoned kitten shelter several months in advance. People seem to act like she knows more weird things than not, but if Adrien has something he does every single solitary week, it's something she can learn without needing to follow him.

      Yeah well me it doesn't allow to paste. Must be my keyboard in french.

      Well, it never hurts to be bilingual. And your language is easy compared to mine. Trust me on this.

      Since so far all the previous characters that found out seems to not care, except Alix a little bit then she shrugs it off too, it would be a nice change. This gag is tiring and a bit teeth gritting. That at least someone tells her it's just plain wrong, and technically, she sets herself up for it like Lila with her lies by not being bothered with it. You can't expect everybody on this show to be okay with what she does, if someone calls her out on it in a good enough way that she will put it done, that will be fine for me. If she does it herself without anyone telling her just because she decides to do it more properly, that's fine too.

      Right. Still not the point. The point is that she tries to keep track with what he does and succeeds for over half a year of his schedule, and technically, why should she bothers? She's gonna go to his meeting with his dad, go see him helps kittens, going to see him fencing, playing basket-ball, going to his chinese lesson? It's pointless for her to know that stuff when she's not even gonna do anything when he's there, just that she knows he will be there is creepy enough. Considering what she did the 2 times she used his schedule to do very wrong things, I'd rather not know what she would do else with these events. It's just plain wrong, final point, stop defending her for that. If it takes someone who rightly calls her on that, it's her own fault and she can't argue back to it, and if it takes that to open her eyes, then so be it!

      Yeah, but for her to know all of them is still creepy. She already hardly can't talk to him, so unless Nino or Alya told her, basically she must have eavesdropping him. When will the characters stop doing that when it doesn't concern them?

      Didn't get to reply much to your last comment from before, my episode was starting and then I had to go to bed, sorry about that. To elaborate, they lied because they knew Damoclès was gonna try to be a hero again and they would need to rescue him by watching him being impatient with getting them out of the school, and when he finally becomes better at it at the end of the episode, Ladybug tells Chat Noir no to a movie night because she promised her friend (Alya) that she would spend more time with her. 

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Yeah well me it doesn't allow to paste. Must be my keyboard in french.

      Well, it never hurts to be bilingual. And your language is easy compared to mine. Trust me on this.

      Since so far all the previous characters that found out seems to not care, except Alix a little bit then she shrugs it off too, it would be a nice change. This gag is tiring and a bit teeth gritting. That at least someone tells her it's just plain wrong, and technically, she sets herself up for it like Lila with her lies by not being bothered with it. You can't expect everybody on this show to be okay with what she does, if someone calls her out on it in a good enough way that she will put it done, that will be fine for me. If she does it herself without anyone telling her just because she decides to do it more properly, that's fine too.

      Right. Still not the point. The point is that she tries to keep track with what he does and succeeds for over half a year of his schedule, and technically, why should she bothers? She's gonna go to his meeting with his dad, go see him helps kittens, going to see him fencing, playing basket-ball, going to his chinese lesson? It's pointless for her to know that stuff when she's not even gonna do anything when he's there, just that she knows he will be there is creepy enough. Considering what she did the 2 times she used his schedule to do very wrong things, I'd rather not know what she would do else with these events. It's just plain wrong, final point, stop defending her for that. If it takes someone who rightly calls her on that, it's her own fault and she can't argue back to it, and if it takes that to open her eyes, then so be it!

      Yeah, but for her to know all of them is still creepy. She already hardly can't talk to him, so unless Nino or Alya told her, basically she must have eavesdropping him. When will the characters stop doing that when it doesn't concern them?

      Didn't get to reply much to your last comment from before, my episode was starting and then I had to go to bed, sorry about that. To elaborate, they lied because they knew Damoclès was gonna try to be a hero again and they would need to rescue him by watching him being impatient with getting them out of the school, and when he finally becomes better at it at the end of the episode, Ladybug tells Chat Noir no to a movie night because she promised her friend (Alya) that she would spend more time with her. 

      Yeah, but can it actually be in someone's character to point it out? You kind of assume everyone from Plagg to Kagami is going to tell her. You even do this with characters we haven't even seen yet. You just assume Trixx, who we know nothing at all about, will mess with anyone for fun but draw the line at her charge shipping people. You assume Plagg would criticise her. I bet you even think Pollen would all her out. Or just literally every character who hasn't seen her schedule. And that's the problem I have- you assume everyone will harshly criticise her because that's what you would do or what you want to see done. She probably should get called out, but I think most people in the show just don't take her seriously. Maybe her humiliation on TV in "Troublemaker" will prompt her to get rid of it and dial back on her obsession.

      I was more pointing out that everyone acts like her schedule is much more meticulous than it is. I'm also pointing out the critical fact that the photoshoot in "Gigantitan" is NOT on the schedule. So, Alya had that piece of information, not Marinette. The only information Marinette seems to have provided is the fact that Adrien leaves his phone in the car during photoshoots, since this is what Alix calls creepy and Marinette doesn't say she got the information from Alya.. I'm not trying to defend her so much as I am trying to say I think you're being way too harsh, acting like she knows where he's going to be every single second of every single day and following him to those locations most days. She doesn't seem to actually do anything with the information except the one time in "Copycat" which, again, is something she could have learnt entirely innocently and she just wrote it down. I'm not exactly trying to defend her, because I do find it creepy she wrote everything down, but you're kind of forcing my hand to try and I guess explain possibly why she has some of this information. Cuz you just assume the worst of Marinette all the time since you don't like her. It took me like a week to get you to admit she didn't think of the plan in "Gigantitan", because you just assumed she made it up without looking for visual, audio, and even personality clues that indicated otherwise.

      Maybe it's because I have a pretty good memory and already relate to Marinette on some level in other things, but it doesn't bother me that she knows at least the things he does every single week because that's something even Juleka could learn without actively trying. It bothers me she wrote them down. It's the seven (ten if you count the lunches with show people) other events she knows about that I find creepy. But it still bothers me she wrote them down. It's the writing it down I find creepiest. She could have heard Adrien talking about some of that stuff, and just retained the information like how I retain random things that I've only been told once or only heard once. You don't need to be eavesdropping to hear things. If the people sitting at a table nearby you say something, chances are you might pick up some of what they're saying even if you aren't actively listening for it. Like how yesterday I was out and heard a man and his son talking about getting an air hockey table and if they weren't getting that, the dad would get a PS4. I wasn't actively listening to them, I just overheard it. I'm sticking to my guns that she got the info about the photoshoots from Alya, considering how she was surprised by it in "Stormy Weather" (she didn't react like she'd forgotten or hadn't thought about it- she reacted like she didn't know about it) and how the one in "Gigantitan" was not on her schedule, since all the ones she has written down are for the park beside her house.

      To be fair, she's doing better about talking to him. Doesn't not make her creepy, she still is, but she is doing better about the whole "talking to Adrien" thing.

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    • Thearomalady wrote: 

      Yeah, but can it actually be in someone's character to point it out? You kind of assume everyone from Plagg to Kagami is going to tell her. You even do this with characters we haven't even seen yet. You just assume Trixx, who we know nothing at all about, will mess with anyone for fun but draw the line at her charge shipping people. You assume Plagg would criticise her. I bet you even think Pollen would all her out. Or just literally every character who hasn't seen her schedule. And that's the problem I have- you assume everyone will harshly criticise her because that's what you would do or what you want to see done. She probably should get called out, but I think most people in the show just don't take her seriously. Maybe her humiliation on TV in "Troublemaker" will prompt her to get rid of it and dial back on her obsession.

      I was more pointing out that everyone acts like her schedule is much more meticulous than it is. I'm also pointing out the critical fact that the photoshoot in "Gigantitan" is NOT on the schedule. So, Alya had that piece of information, not Marinette. The only information Marinette seems to have provided is the fact that Adrien leaves his phone in the car during photoshoots, since this is what Alix calls creepy and Marinette doesn't say she got the information from Alya.. I'm not trying to defend her so much as I am trying to say I think you're being way too harsh, acting like she knows where he's going to be every single second of every single day and following him to those locations most days. She doesn't seem to actually do anything with the information except the one time in "Copycat" which, again, is something she could have learnt entirely innocently and she just wrote it down. I'm not exactly trying to defend her, because I do find it creepy she wrote everything down, but you're kind of forcing my hand to try and I guess explain possibly why she has some of this information. Cuz you just assume the worst of Marinette all the time since you don't like her. It took me like a week to get you to admit she didn't think of the plan in "Gigantitan", because you just assumed she made it up without looking for visual, audio, and even personality clues that indicated otherwise.

      Maybe it's because I have a pretty good memory and already relate to Marinette on some level in other things, but it doesn't bother me that she knows at least the things he does every single week because that's something even Juleka could learn without actively trying. It bothers me she wrote them down. It's the seven (ten if you count the lunches with show people) other events she knows about that I find creepy. But it still bothers me she wrote them down. It's the writing it down I find creepiest. She could have heard Adrien talking about some of that stuff, and just retained the information like how I retain random things that I've only been told once or only heard once. You don't need to be eavesdropping to hear things. If the people sitting at a table nearby you say something, chances are you might pick up some of what they're saying even if you aren't actively listening for it. Like how yesterday I was out and heard a man and his son talking about getting an air hockey table and if they weren't getting that, the dad would get a PS4. I wasn't actively listening to them, I just overheard it. I'm sticking to my guns that she got the info about the photoshoots from Alya, considering how she was surprised by it in "Stormy Weather" (she didn't react like she'd forgotten or hadn't thought about it- she reacted like she didn't know about it) and how the one in "Gigantitan" was not on her schedule, since all the ones she has written down are for the park beside her house.

      To be fair, she's doing better about talking to him. Doesn't not make her creepy, she still is, but she is doing better about the whole "talking to Adrien" thing.

      Well, don't tell me there's not a single character on this show that couldn't do it. Alix could, Chloé of course, heck her parents draw the line at her behavior sometimes, so someone actually could tell her, harshly or nicely, but still, could point out that it's not appropriate to have his schedule on some personnal and private things, like with his dad, or the kitten stuff (I bet he took that after he became Chat Noir, since he is almost one now, he goes help his kind, LOL, wonder if Plagg gets jealous). And how many time did I say that if she didn't get criticised harshly or just figured out by herself that it wasn't right and took it down, that was fine with me too? Let me rephrase my thinking then: I don't care if someone does it or not, nicely or not, or she just wakes up and decide she should take it down, what I care about is that she takes it down for good, put it int hetrash or burn it and that she forgets about it no matter what. I wonder if we'll see Adrien's schedule after the photos in that episode.

      Might be because hse only half of the year, and pratically this is a new year almost, since they I doubt they would transfer students so late in school, so maybe she didn't have the rest of his schedule, or might work on his new one. Dark Cupid was on Valentine's day, so I guess unless the school accepts new students after february I guess when Volpina aired it was in september in the show for a new year. Maybe? Hard to take seriously the dates, Stormy Weather said it was first day of summer, but it was one of the first episode, and almost each time we see the date it's always May 21. This show's is a nightmare for figuring out a timeline, we can only figure which episode is after which thanks to some details, like Rogercop being after Timebreaker, Lady Wifi and Stormy Weather before Evillustrator, all of those before Puppeteer, Dark Blade and Guitar Villain after Pixelator and so on. I admitted it because it was confirmed by Feri, no? I will accept it if I get the answers from Feri, Zag, Winny and Astruc only. Can't argue with them, they're the one doing the show, so their word is law. Considering her (Marinette) crazy plans/imagination sometimes, you've got to admit that it could have been her. 

      Exactly, but you don't write it down. She does, and then watch it. For what? What does it do in her life to have all of that written down? She's not his girlfriend, if she was I would get it, because like this she could plan things with him that could fit in both their schedule, and in my family, we do tend to plans things in advance for months, so I could get that. But she's just his classmate, and while on good terms with him, not maybe close enough to get the right to have all of his schedule for the year. It's just seem all so unnecessary work and waste of time to know all of that for her. The fact she knows it better than her own kind of make it worse.

      Oh yeah, I could see that worked totally well in Gigantitan for her, haha. Still got ways to go.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Well, don't tell me there's not a single character on this show that couldn't do it. Alix could, Chloé of course, heck her parents draw the line at her behavior sometimes, so someone actually could tell her, harshly or nicely, but still, could point out that it's not appropriate to have his schedule on some personnal and private things, like with his dad, or the kitten stuff (I bet he took that after he became Chat Noir, since he is almost one now, he goes help his kind, LOL, wonder if Plagg gets jealous). And how many time did I say that if she didn't get criticised harshly or just figured out by herself that it wasn't right and took it down, that was fine with me too? Let me rephrase my thinking then: I don't care if someone does it or not, nicely or not, or she just wakes up and decide she should take it down, what I care about is that she takes it down for good, put it int hetrash or burn it and that she forgets about it no matter what. I wonder if we'll see Adrien's schedule after the photos in that episode.

      Might be because hse only half of the year, and pratically this is a new year almost, since they I doubt they would transfer students so late in school, so maybe she didn't have the rest of his schedule, or might work on his new one. Dark Cupid was on Valentine's day, so I guess unless the school accepts new students after february I guess when Volpina aired it was in september in the show for a new year. Maybe? Hard to take seriously the dates, Stormy Weather said it was first day of summer, but it was one of the first episode, and almost each time we see the date it's always May 21. This show's is a nightmare for figuring out a timeline, we can only figure which episode is after which thanks to some details, like Rogercop being after Timebreaker, Lady Wifi and Stormy Weather before Evillustrator, all of those before Puppeteer, Dark Blade and Guitar Villain after Pixelator and so on. I admitted it because it was confirmed by Feri, no? I will accept it if I get the answers from Feri, Zag, Winny and Astruc only. Can't argue with them, they're the one doing the show, so their word is law. Considering her (Marinette) crazy plans/imagination sometimes, you've got to admit that it could have been her. 

      Exactly, but you don't write it down. She does, and then watch it. For what? What does it do in her life to have all of that written down? She's not his girlfriend, if she was I would get it, because like this she could plan things with him that could fit in both their schedule, and in my family, we do tend to plans things in advance for months, so I could get that. But she's just his classmate, and while on good terms with him, not maybe close enough to get the right to have all of his schedule for the year. It's just seem all so unnecessary work and waste of time to know all of that for her. The fact she knows it better than her own kind of make it worse.

      Oh yeah, I could see that worked totally well in Gigantitan for her, haha. Still got ways to go.

      Sure, yes, there are characters. But not every single one of them can be expected to have that reaction. Alix I'm not surpried by. Her parents I wouldn't be surprised by. Since she doesn't have the schedule out all the time, I doubt it very much. But she might be embarrassed enough she takes down everything.

      "Volpina" had to be set in June, according to the current episode setup. I can speak from experience that we do accept new students even if there's only a month left of school, and French schools get out in July. "Stormy Weather" someone has pointed out could be set on the Summer Equinox, and noticeably, Adrien does have a photoshoot at that time on Marinette's calendar (the one in March), but considering how sparse the calendar is up to that point, she might have put everything in from before she got the calendar that she remembered, such as the photoshoot in March. I kinda had the timeline possibly worked out, but then I had it in the wrong year, so I had to adjust everything accordingly and now Season 2 is out. "Origins", "Bubbler", and "Lady Wifi" were all in September (Origins being on the 2nd and 3rd), "Santa Claws" is obviously in December, "Dark Cupid" in February (14th), "Stormy Weather" in March (the 23rd), "Timebreaker" (6), "Copycat" (11), and "The Mime" (28) are in April (either we see the date in the episode or the date is marked on the schedule). Almost all of the May episodes have dates marked in the episode itself: "Mr Pigeon" on the 18th (it's shown on the overhead screen about the project), "The Pharaoh" on the 24th (this is the closest Saturday to the 21st), and Darkblade on the 23rd (shown on posters, iirc). In order to fit everything before July, "Pixelator", "Guitar Villain", and "Antibug" need to happen in May as well. In June we have "Rogercop" on the 2nd (this is the day after Parents' Day which was a Sunday that year), "Animan" (has to be after "Rogercop"), "Evillustrator" (has to be after "Animan"), "Gamer" (must be after "Darkblade" and "Evillustrator". There are dates on the posters, but due to the akuma attacks, it was likely moved), "Reflekta" (class photos are late in the school year), "Horrificator" (Alya and Nino are a couple, so needs to be after "Animan"), "Puppeteer" (I'm guessing 14-15 June- has to be a weekend and gives Marinette time to make the Rogercop doll), "Simon Says", "Kung Food" (Marinette is more comfortable around Adrien in these episodes, so they need to be after "Gamer" and "Kung Food" has Jagged), and finally, "Volpina"/"The Collector" (20th- has to be a Friday, this is the earliest Friday it can be on. "Collector" finishes on the 23rd, I think, with Adrien's return). This is how I think the timeline goes as far as what I have so far. "Princess Fragrance" I put in November, but it could go anywhere. The thing is, though, that this timeline is impossible unless we find out they're going into a different school year. Since a year hasn't been mentioned as passing yet, I can only guess it hasn't.

      The date on the Ladyblog is no good for dates, because it's always the 21st of May on the blog, even twice in the same episode despite the time difference between the two times it appears. I'm guessing "The Pharaoh" was a Saturday, since they had school the day before ("Hmm, yesterday somebody didn't have their textbook in class") and Alya also says "So, all I gotta do is find out which girl in tenth grade lost her history book last week". Ignore the comment about the grade they're in, I know it's different in French, they're trying to make them 15-16 in English since that's the age most of these types of "young superhero teens" shows focus on. The 21st was a Wednesday in 2014 (as indicated by Marinette's schedule, it's 2014), so they may not have History on Thursdays. If that's true, then her "last week" comment is a little weird, because Marinette should have been missing her History book for more than one day, unless they only have History once a week (which sounds super weird). Alya could be one of those people who puts Saturday and Sunday as the start of every week, though. Assuming they didn't go to the Louvre during a school day, it had to be a Saturday, and the only Saturday it could be is the 24th of May, assuming the Ladyblog date was correct when Ladybug lost her book.

      No, it could NOT have been Marinette, as I already explained several times. That kind of plan is not Marinette's style (her plans are, like I keep saying, really simple. Fashion plans are totally different. You wouldn't say making plans to do stuff with your family is exactly the same kind of planning as making a dress, and her imagination plans usually lead to negative things and again, start off pretty simple and snowball), Marinette asks Alya if she's sure about the plan not the other way around (this should have automatically told you whose plan it was), Marinette is horrified to learn everyone else knows about her crush (she does this in "Animan", too), she never involved other people in her plans with Adrien because (as you yourself have pointed out) she dislikes other girls getting close to Adrien (she even gets jealous of Alya in "Lady Wifi"), and she's blushing her way through the entire scene. I asked Feri about it during one of her drawing streams specifically because of you and she's the one who told me what Marinette said to Alya about the plan and pointed out the parts about Marinette not wanting others to know and how embarrassed she was through the entire scene. You shouldn't need to be told by Feri who made the plans when you look at the evidence presented in the show. She seemed slightly surprised anyone could interpret it as being Marinette's plan.

      She still has a way to go, but I think she got flustered like that because she was asking him on a date, rather than talking to him normally like she does in "Kung Food".

      We're getting way off topic from "Dark Owl", though.

      Hawk Moth says he wants to erase an event from the past. Whose past? His? Adrien's? His wife's? The past in general? Could he want to rid the world of the Miraculouses? The more it comes up, the more I wonder if his plan actually does have anything to do with his missing wife. Like I still believe to a degree that he knows where she is and she's not truly missing, exactly. If he wanted to know where she was, he doesn't need to go about it the way he does. He doesn't need the Ladybug and Black Cat Miraculouses. He needed to just akumatise a medium/fortune teller/psychic into a hero so s/he has real powers and ask him or her where she is. She's either actually dead and this show has a "never say die" policy, or his wish has nothing to do with her.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Sure, yes, there are characters. But not every single one of them can be expected to have that reaction. Alix I'm not surpried by. Her parents I wouldn't be surprised by. Since she doesn't have the schedule out all the time, I doubt it very much. But she might be embarrassed enough she takes down everything.

      "Volpina" had to be set in June, according to the current episode setup. I can speak from experience that we do accept new students even if there's only a month left of school, and French schools get out in July. "Stormy Weather" someone has pointed out could be set on the Summer Equinox, and noticeably, Adrien does have a photoshoot at that time on Marinette's calendar (the one in March), but considering how sparse the calendar is up to that point, she might have put everything in from before she got the calendar that she remembered, such as the photoshoot in March. I kinda had the timeline possibly worked out, but then I had it in the wrong year, so I had to adjust everything accordingly and now Season 2 is out. "Origins", "Bubbler", and "Lady Wifi" were all in September (Origins being on the 2nd and 3rd), "Santa Claws" is obviously in December, "Dark Cupid" in February (14th), "Stormy Weather" in March (the 23rd), "Timebreaker" (6), "Copycat" (11), and "The Mime" (28) are in April (either we see the date in the episode or the date is marked on the schedule). Almost all of the May episodes have dates marked in the episode itself: "Mr Pigeon" on the 18th (it's shown on the overhead screen about the project), "The Pharaoh" on the 24th (this is the closest Saturday to the 21st), and Darkblade on the 23rd (shown on posters, iirc). In order to fit everything before July, "Pixelator", "Guitar Villain", and "Antibug" need to happen in May as well. In June we have "Rogercop" on the 2nd (this is the day after Parents' Day which was a Sunday that year), "Animan" (has to be after "Rogercop"), "Evillustrator" (has to be after "Animan"), "Gamer" (must be after "Darkblade" and "Evillustrator". There are dates on the posters, but due to the akuma attacks, it was likely moved), "Reflekta" (class photos are late in the school year), "Horrificator" (Alya and Nino are a couple, so needs to be after "Animan"), "Puppeteer" (I'm guessing 14-15 June- has to be a weekend and gives Marinette time to make the Rogercop doll), "Simon Says", "Kung Food" (Marinette is more comfortable around Adrien in these episodes, so they need to be after "Gamer" and "Kung Food" has Jagged), and finally, "Volpina"/"The Collector" (20th- has to be a Friday, this is the earliest Friday it can be on. "Collector" finishes on the 23rd, I think, with Adrien's return). This is how I think the timeline goes as far as what I have so far. "Princess Fragrance" I put in November, but it could go anywhere. The thing is, though, that this timeline is impossible unless we find out they're going into a different school year. Since a year hasn't been mentioned as passing yet, I can only guess it hasn't.

      The date on the Ladyblog is no good for dates, because it's always the 21st of May on the blog, even twice in the same episode despite the time difference between the two times it appears. I'm guessing "The Pharaoh" was a Saturday, since they had school the day before ("Hmm, yesterday somebody didn't have their textbook in class") and Alya also says "So, all I gotta do is find out which girl in tenth grade lost her history book last week". Ignore the comment about the grade they're in, I know it's different in French, they're trying to make them 15-16 in English since that's the age most of these types of "young superhero teens" shows focus on. The 21st was a Wednesday in 2014 (as indicated by Marinette's schedule, it's 2014), so they may not have History on Thursdays. If that's true, then her "last week" comment is a little weird, because Marinette should have been missing her History book for more than one day, unless they only have History once a week (which sounds super weird). Alya could be one of those people who puts Saturday and Sunday as the start of every week, though. Assuming they didn't go to the Louvre during a school day, it had to be a Saturday, and the only Saturday it could be is the 24th of May, assuming the Ladyblog date was correct when Ladybug lost her book.

      No, it could NOT have been Marinette, as I already explained several times. That kind of plan is not Marinette's style (her plans are, like I keep saying, really simple. Fashion plans are totally different. You wouldn't say making plans to do stuff with your family is exactly the same kind of planning as making a dress, and her imagination plans usually lead to negative things and again, start off pretty simple and snowball), Marinette asks Alya if she's sure about the plan not the other way around (this should have automatically told you whose plan it was), Marinette is horrified to learn everyone else knows about her crush (she does this in "Animan", too), she never involved other people in her plans with Adrien because (as you yourself have pointed out) she dislikes other girls getting close to Adrien (she even gets jealous of Alya in "Lady Wifi"), and she's blushing her way through the entire scene. I asked Feri about it during one of her drawing streams specifically because of you and she's the one who told me what Marinette said to Alya about the plan and pointed out the parts about Marinette not wanting others to know and how embarrassed she was through the entire scene. You shouldn't need to be told by Feri who made the plans when you look at the evidence presented in the show. She seemed slightly surprised anyone could interpret it as being Marinette's plan.

      She still has a way to go, but I think she got flustered like that because she was asking him on a date, rather than talking to him normally like she does in "Kung Food".

      We're getting way off topic from "Dark Owl", though.

      Hawk Moth says he wants to erase an event from the past. Whose past? His? Adrien's? His wife's? The past in general? Could he want to rid the world of the Miraculouses? The more it comes up, the more I wonder if his plan actually does have anything to do with his missing wife. Like I still believe to a degree that he knows where she is and she's not truly missing, exactly. If he wanted to know where she was, he doesn't need to go about it the way he does. He doesn't need the Ladybug and Black Cat Miraculouses. He needed to just akumatise a medium/fortune teller/psychic into a hero so s/he has real powers and ask him or her where she is. She's either actually dead and this show has a "never say die" policy, or his wish has nothing to do with her.

      I find it weirder that no one comments on it much, by that I mean Alya, Tikki, and now the other girls. I hope so.

      Wow! You just blew my mind. That's quite the impressive and detailed timeline (hopefully) of the show. *whistle* I'm quite impressed, I have no other words.

      I suppose that's true. Well done Sherlock Holmes! *pats you on the back*

      I was more thinking of Ladybug's style, she 's the brain of the duo after all. Sometimes the way she use her lucky charm seems complicated, like in Dark Owl, actually. She technically just had to give the macaron to Tikki and Plagg so they could recharge, then have Chat Noir cataclysm the crate, and they wouldn't have had to worry about being drowned in whipped cream since the crate wouldn't be there anymore, I don't think there was a need to give him the fake miraculouses to distract him. The cream would have made him slip too. No? Or in Horrificator, she made an instrument and had the entire class sing a song, was that necessary? Couldn't they just like, talk to her normally like she wasn't some huge monster and then she could have shrinked enough so they could have gotten the akuma? Juleka didn't need to sing to make her smaller... And of course her initial plan in Gigantitan to lure the villain under the Eiffel Tower, as Chat Noir pointed out, was complicated for nothing. Well, she dislike other girls who have crushes on him to get closer to him, which pratically only includes Chloé and Lila right now, Kagami maybe later, and I'm not gonna mention his other fangirls alongside Mireille and Aurore, cause we all know those are hopeless suitors. She kinds of knows she has nothing to fear with Alya and Mylène, they have their own boyfriends, Rose likes Prince Ali, and Juleka and Alix seems to think of Adrien as just a friend. Sabrina has no problem with Chloé getting Adrien, so she's out too. Next time I'll say Ladybug, is that fine with you? And seriously, that was you who asked her that? I'll go find you and had you to my friends on Twitter then! :)

      Well, Kung Food was an exception because she was already nervous enough with her mom's uncle, so that may have cancelled her nervousness with Adrien, that and she couldn't understant what they were saying.

      Maybe he wants to erase the event that made her disappear perhaps? He might know she's not dead, but can't really reach her, and I don't think he'll send an akumatized villain at where she might be, so him getting the miraculouses so he can prevent her going missing might be his best bet? Just some thinking on my part, feel free to not take those ideas seriously. Just wrote what first came to my mind and it was that.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      I find it weirder that no one comments on it much, by that I mean Alya, Tikki, and now the other girls. I hope so.

      Wow! You just blew my mind. That's quite the impressive and detailed timeline (hopefully) of the show. *whistle* I'm quite impressed, I have no other words.

      I suppose that's true. Well done Sherlock Holmes! *pats you on the back*

      I was more thinking of Ladybug's style, she 's the brain of the duo after all. Sometimes the way she use her lucky charm seems complicated, like in Dark Owl, actually. She technically just had to give the macaron to Tikki and Plagg so they could recharge, then have Chat Noir cataclysm the crate, and they wouldn't have had to worry about being drowned in whipped cream since the crate wouldn't be there anymore, I don't think there was a need to give him the fake miraculouses to distract him. The cream would have made him slip too. No? Or in Horrificator, she made an instrument and had the entire class sing a song, was that necessary? Couldn't they just like, talk to her normally like she wasn't some huge monster and then she could have shrinked enough so they could have gotten the akuma? Juleka didn't need to sing to make her smaller... And of course her initial plan in Gigantitan to lure the villain under the Eiffel Tower, as Chat Noir pointed out, was complicated for nothing. Well, she dislike other girls who have crushes on him to get closer to him, which pratically only includes Chloé and Lila right now, Kagami maybe later, and I'm not gonna mention his other fangirls alongside Mireille and Aurore, cause we all know those are hopeless suitors. She kinds of knows she has nothing to fear with Alya and Mylène, they have their own boyfriends, Rose likes Prince Ali, and Juleka and Alix seems to think of Adrien as just a friend. Sabrina has no problem with Chloé getting Adrien, so she's out too. Next time I'll say Ladybug, is that fine with you? And seriously, that was you who asked her that? I'll go find you and had you to my friends on Twitter then! :)

      Well, Kung Food was an exception because she was already nervous enough with her mom's uncle, so that may have cancelled her nervousness with Adrien, that and she couldn't understant what they were saying.

      Maybe he wants to erase the event that made her disappear perhaps? He might know she's not dead, but can't really reach her, and I don't think he'll send an akumatized villain at where she might be, so him getting the miraculouses so he can prevent her going missing might be his best bet? Just some thinking on my part, feel free to not take those ideas seriously. Just wrote what first came to my mind and it was that.

      Like I said, people don't seem to take her seriously.

      Most episodes have markers of a date or some indicator that they happen after another episode. "Gamer" was supposed to take place before "Darkblade" according to the gaming competition posters, but this is impossible, because Marinette's box is in "Gamer", and she built it in "Darkblade". I put "Princess Fragrance" in November so that there's an early showing of Master Fu and it gives Marinette the time to totally forget about him until "The Collector". Since he shows up a lot thereafter, "Princess Fragrance" makes sense as being early. "The Bubbler" has to be early because it's the only time Adrien puts himself before his duty and Marinette seems to forget about the 5-minute timer, so it's probably the second episode chronologically. One of Chloe's off-hand comments in "Lady Wifi" mentions Halloween being in a month, so that means that episode was also in September. The episodes where Marinette can talk easier to Adrien have to be later, and every episode that features Jagged needs to be after "Darkblade", since he and Marinette aren't friends in that episode, but are by the end of "Pixelator".

      I really like puzzles :D

      I think the fake Miraculouses were meant to buy them more time, actually. Cuz they crate was filling up pretty quickly. Horrificator her plan is a really simple use of her Lucky Charm, and people were still scared of Horrificator (except Juleka) and they needed to calm down Horrificator, not just talk to her. Her plans are a very simple logic plan. She goes from A to B pretty easily. "I have guitar strings. Mylene has a song that calms her down. I need to play that song". "I need to get Gigantitan into an enclosed place so I or Cat Noir can get to his bracelet". "I need to buy us some time to get out of here and distract Hawk Moth". Even her plan with "Cardboard Girl" as pretty simple "have The Owl rescue us from a villain so he can be a superhero for a day". Her logic is complicated, but the plan is ultimately simple. Alya's plans have so far included: "Accept Adrien's offer to go to the zoo with him and Nino, talk to Marinette through a bluetooth about what to do, somehow get Nino away from her without making an actual appearance, get Marinette and Adrien alone" and... "send off Adrien's driver so that Adrien bumps into Marinette by the road and have a rickshaw pulled by Mylene's dad pull up so they can take a romantic rickshaw ride and the go have a treat together and hopefully Adrien asks her on a date and at some point Alix will throw flower petals on them". Alya's plans rely on coincidence and cliche. Marinette'sand Ladybug's are somehow very simple and yet, complex because they're not the first thing you'd think of. Most of her plans are really simple, like the her uses of her Lucky Charm in "Animan" and "Mr Pigeon". If she tries to do a plan without Lucky Charm, it fails, and all of her Lucky Charm plans are pretty simple. The only reason her plans in "Dark Owl" were ridiculous is because of the show the entire episode references.

      My twitter is findable through my user page xD

      She talks to him just fine when her uncle's not around, though. She's borderline normal around him.

      Oh, no, that's not what I meant- he doesn't need to send the akuma, he just needs to ask the akuma where she is. Someone who's been given actual psychic powers could tell him where she is. So whatever his plan is, an akuma can't fix it. He can grant the power of time, but he only wanted Timebreaker to get the Miraculouses, and it's possible he can grant even greater time powers, since he can directly mimic the powers of other Miraculouses, grant power over weather, give people the power to completely control others, give the power to turn people into coal, and he even gave Pixelator his own pocket dimension. So I wonder if what he wants is way further back than Timebreaker could go, even if she stole time from everyone in Paris. Timebreaker only needed the power to go back about ten minutes, and akumas always seem to get powers related to what upset them. So who's to say that Hawk Moth can't create an akuma out of a clockmaker who can go back as far as they like? Why does he have to use the Black Cat and Ladybug Miraculouses? Why does he have to get what he wants through villainous means? It's pretty interesting to think about. He seems to be able to grant just about any power with the Moth Miraculous, after all. What power does the wish have that he can't give to an akuma? That he can't give himself?

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Like I said, people don't seem to take her seriously.

      Most episodes have markers of a date or some indicator that they happen after another episode. "Gamer" was supposed to take place before "Darkblade" according to the gaming competition posters, but this is impossible, because Marinette's box is in "Gamer", and she built it in "Darkblade". I put "Princess Fragrance" in November so that there's an early showing of Master Fu and it gives Marinette the time to totally forget about him until "The Collector". Since he shows up a lot thereafter, "Princess Fragrance" makes sense as being early. "The Bubbler" has to be early because it's the only time Adrien puts himself before his duty and Marinette seems to forget about the 5-minute timer, so it's probably the second episode chronologically. One of Chloe's off-hand comments in "Lady Wifi" mentions Halloween being in a month, so that means that episode was also in September. The episodes where Marinette can talk easier to Adrien have to be later, and every episode that features Jagged needs to be after "Darkblade", since he and Marinette aren't friends in that episode, but are by the end of "Pixelator".

      I really like puzzles :D

      I think the fake Miraculouses were meant to buy them more time, actually. Cuz they crate was filling up pretty quickly. Horrificator her plan is a really simple use of her Lucky Charm, and people were still scared of Horrificator (except Juleka) and they needed to calm down Horrificator, not just talk to her. Her plans are a very simple logic plan. She goes from A to B pretty easily. "I have guitar strings. Mylene has a song that calms her down. I need to play that song". "I need to get Gigantitan into an enclosed place so I or Cat Noir can get to his bracelet". "I need to buy us some time to get out of here and distract Hawk Moth". Even her plan with "Cardboard Girl" as pretty simple "have The Owl rescue us from a villain so he can be a superhero for a day". Her logic is complicated, but the plan is ultimately simple. Alya's plans have so far included: "Accept Adrien's offer to go to the zoo with him and Nino, talk to Marinette through a bluetooth about what to do, somehow get Nino away from her without making an actual appearance, get Marinette and Adrien alone" and... "send off Adrien's driver so that Adrien bumps into Marinette by the road and have a rickshaw pulled by Mylene's dad pull up so they can take a romantic rickshaw ride and the go have a treat together and hopefully Adrien asks her on a date and at some point Alix will throw flower petals on them". Alya's plans rely on coincidence and cliche. Marinette'sand Ladybug's are somehow very simple and yet, complex because they're not the first thing you'd think of. Most of her plans are really simple, like the her uses of her Lucky Charm in "Animan" and "Mr Pigeon". If she tries to do a plan without Lucky Charm, it fails, and all of her Lucky Charm plans are pretty simple. The only reason her plans in "Dark Owl" were ridiculous is because of the show the entire episode references.

      My twitter is findable through my user page xD

      She talks to him just fine when her uncle's not around, though. She's borderline normal around him.

      Oh, no, that's not what I meant- he doesn't need to send the akuma, he just needs to ask the akuma where she is. Someone who's been given actual psychic powers could tell him where she is. So whatever his plan is, an akuma can't fix it. He can grant the power of time, but he only wanted Timebreaker to get the Miraculouses, and it's possible he can grant even greater time powers, since he can directly mimic the powers of other Miraculouses, grant power over weather, give people the power to completely control others, give the power to turn people into coal, and he even gave Pixelator his own pocket dimension. So I wonder if what he wants is way further back than Timebreaker could go, even if she stole time from everyone in Paris. Timebreaker only needed the power to go back about ten minutes, and akumas always seem to get powers related to what upset them. So who's to say that Hawk Moth can't create an akuma out of a clockmaker who can go back as far as they like? Why does he have to use the Black Cat and Ladybug Miraculouses? Why does he have to get what he wants through villainous means? It's pretty interesting to think about. He seems to be able to grant just about any power with the Moth Miraculous, after all. What power does the wish have that he can't give to an akuma? That he can't give himself?

      Pretty sure the girls do after Gigantitan.

      Right. Still you sure put a lot of work and thoughts into it. Good job!

      It wasn't Mylène's dad Fred that pulled the rickshaw, it was Théo, again with another job. Even thought her plans are simple, sometimes they do take a lot of complex thought to make it work. I'm pretty sure that she could have just send Juleka fawns over Horrificator until she shrunk down, since she was the only one not scared. I'm more surprised that everyone didn't bat an eye on how she knew Mylène's song, sometimes the lack of questions by the characters really blows my mind at how they don't pay attention at all... but oh well.

      Great! I'll add you soon then!

      Wasn't that because she was upset that Chloé sabotaged his soup?

      If she disappeared in Tibet, not sure Timebreaker would go there far on rollerblades. Maybe we'll have an episode like that, remember Astruc design's of an older Marinette as Ladybug? Well, he couldn't give himself a power that was useful to bring his wife back, it had to do with the situation that leaded to him becoming the Collector, as he was just covering his tracks. I suppose not using the moth miraculous to get exactly the thing he needs to get his wife back might be the limit? Maybe?

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    • Honestly, I'm just looking foward to the next episode, and this episode totally rocked. ;)

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    • Loved the episode. Why does Theo show up in so many jobs? Is he just a filler character? In Copycat he is a sculptor (which is a pretty time-consuming job and I'm an art major so I know) and has his own studio so he must be rather well off. But in other episodes he's setting up sound equipment (which has nothing to do with sculpting) and driving a Rickshaw (which REALLY has nothing to do with art at all). Is he that badly off, or are they just using his character design and sticking him in random places? Because this doesn't make much sense from a character standpoint.

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    • Lightbearer Storycraft wrote:
      Loved the episode. Why does Theo show up in so many jobs? Is he just a filler character? In Copycat he is a sculptor (which is a pretty time-consuming job and I'm an art major so I know) and has his own studio so he must be rather well off. But in other episodes he's setting up sound equipment (which has nothing to do with sculpting) and driving a Rickshaw (which REALLY has nothing to do with art at all). Is he that badly off, or are they just using his character design and sticking him in random places? Because this doesn't make much sense from a character standpoint.

      I'll bet he's just being put into different places, or maybe he just has a lot of part-time jobs or sculpting's just a hobby?

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    • I'm not sure about that one. If it's just a hobby, how would he have a studio that large? I don't know how bad Paris Real Estate is, but something that large would be really expensive. Also, sculpting can't be just a hobby because that statue was commissioned by the mayor. That's like the most important honor an artist can have and would be sought after by every artist in Paris! The fact that Theo was able to get that position means that he's probably the best, or at least was the most impressive. Also, having a piece commissioned by the mayor will give him portfolio clout enough to make pieces for people all over Paris. He wouldn't need other jobs. The only thing I can think of is either that they just like sticking him places because he's based on an actual person, or that he personally knows one of the girls and did the Rickshaw job as a favor, and maybe was a major fan of the guy he did soundwork for. He can't be a poor artist doing part-time after the events of Copycat...unless, of course, that akumatization ruined his career and made him lose everything. If that's true, I'm pretty sure he would have been akumatized again because of that, because that's just crazy.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Pretty sure the girls do after Gigantitan.

      Right. Still you sure put a lot of work and thoughts into it. Good job!

      It wasn't Mylène's dad Fred that pulled the rickshaw, it was Théo, again with another job. Even thought her plans are simple, sometimes they do take a lot of complex thought to make it work. I'm pretty sure that she could have just send Juleka fawns over Horrificator until she shrunk down, since she was the only one not scared. I'm more surprised that everyone didn't bat an eye on how she knew Mylène's song, sometimes the lack of questions by the characters really blows my mind at how they don't pay attention at all... but oh well.

      Great! I'll add you soon then!

      Wasn't that because she was upset that Chloé sabotaged his soup?

      If she disappeared in Tibet, not sure Timebreaker would go there far on rollerblades. Maybe we'll have an episode like that, remember Astruc design's of an older Marinette as Ladybug? Well, he couldn't give himself a power that was useful to bring his wife back, it had to do with the situation that leaded to him becoming the Collector, as he was just covering his tracks. I suppose not using the moth miraculous to get exactly the thing he needs to get his wife back might be the limit? Maybe?

      Might not since she didn't take his offer and the plan was Alya's, not Marinette's.

      Thanks :D

      Oh, was it? I forgot. Like I said, I'm not watching the episdoe again until it's out in English. Still, the plan was overly complex and cliche and they did just have the rickshaw there waiting. It's not Marinette's style. "Horrificator" is an odd episode because I swear Cat Noir should have had Marinette figured out by that point because of the exchange where they look for the other's civilian identity among the people in goo pods.

      It was before she sabotage the soup. She has a short exhange with Adrien before Chloé shows up and after her uncle leaves:

      Marinette: Thanks, Adrien. I'm totally sorry for bothering you for nothing. I really thought he couldn't speak English.
      Adrien: No problem Marinette. It was awesome to be able to practice my Chinese, especially with a Shifu.
      Marinette: A Shifu?
      Adrien: That means "Master" in Chinese. Your Mom's Uncle is a great master!

      Then Chloé shows up. She has a conversation with him after Chloé leaves, too:
      Adrien: Wow, you really stood up for Cheng Shifu. He would've appreciated that.
      Marinette: I'm not not sure. I don't think he likes me.
      Adrien: Oh no, you're wrong.
      Marinette: No, I swear! He even ripped up the bouquet I gave him.
      Adrien: Cheng Shifu isn't just a chef, Marinette -- he's an artist! He told me he was gonna put flowers in his Celestial Soup. He said he improvises on fateful things that come his way. The flowers he mentioned must be the ones you gave him!
      Marinette: So... you think he actually likes me?
      Adrien: (He grabs Marinette's shoulders) Totally! He's shown you great respect in his own special way. (Marinette sighs happily.)

      There's also this one, which is pretty adorable, I think:
      Adrien: (Trying to push the door open) Eh! (He bends down and sticks his finger in the liquid)
      Marinette: What's that?
      Adrien: Caramel? (dips finger on it and tastes it) Mmm. It might taste good but it's totally indestructible. Looks like we're trapped inside.
      Marinette: My Great Uncle is still upstairs!
      Adrien: Don't worry, I'll find him.
      Marinette: Thanks. I'll... look for a way out of here...

      She acts completely normal, like she's talking with Cat Noir, during both exchanges. She even contradicts him at one point, and I actually kind of like these two exchanges because Marinette feels like she's at her most genuine. She's comfortable around Adrien there, and it's a rare moment where she, as Marinette, isn't thinking only of Adrien or being Ladybug. She's apologetic that she wasted his time (even though Adrien doesn't see it that way) and worried that her uncle doesn't like her (which Adrien assures her isn't true). They're nice exchanges that really show the cultural differences between China and France, and do show that Marinette is, at heart, a pretty sweet girl. It also highlights what a genuinely nice guy Adrien is and how even as Adrien, he's capable of acting authorative like Cat Noir is with civilians, keeping in mind how Adrien is usually pretty soft-spoken. The two work well off each other when Marinette is not being a bundle of awkwardness and nerves, and this is I think the only episode in Season 1 where this happens, but it shows up a few times in Season 2 to my recollection.

      Well, he gave himself the power of the Collector because it matched his emotions at the time. Like I said, akumas seem to gain their powers related to what upset them. Just wanting to get her back might not grant him the power he needs to find her. I think if he wants to get her back and the only way is through the Ladybug and Black Cat's wish-granting powers, she must have died. But I really hope the clues they've dropped mean his plan has nothing, or very little, to do with his wife. It'd mean I'm right for once about something. Aside from her photo in the locket, we've had no indication she is his motivation. That's been nothing but an assumption so far.

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    • Lightbearer Storycraft wrote:
      I'm not sure about that one. If it's just a hobby, how would he have a studio that large? I don't know how bad Paris Real Estate is, but something that large would be really expensive. Also, sculpting can't be just a hobby because that statue was commissioned by the mayor. That's like the most important honor an artist can have and would be sought after by every artist in Paris! The fact that Theo was able to get that position means that he's probably the best, or at least was the most impressive. Also, having a piece commissioned by the mayor will give him portfolio clout enough to make pieces for people all over Paris. He wouldn't need other jobs. The only thing I can think of is either that they just like sticking him places because he's based on an actual person, or that he personally knows one of the girls and did the Rickshaw job as a favor, and maybe was a major fan of the guy he did soundwork for. He can't be a poor artist doing part-time after the events of Copycat...unless, of course, that akumatization ruined his career and made him lose everything. If that's true, I'm pretty sure he would have been akumatized again because of that, because that's just crazy.

      It's not really a studio, is it? It's a warehouse or a storage unit he uses as a studio. He could be renting the building because his flat is too small for his hobbies. It could also be a studio/warehouse he shares with other people.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Might not since she didn't take his offer and the plan was Alya's, not Marinette's.

      Thanks :D

      Oh, was it? I forgot. Like I said, I'm not watching the episdoe again until it's out in English. Still, the plan was overly complex and cliche and they did just have the rickshaw there waiting. It's not Marinette's style. "Horrificator" is an odd episode because I swear Cat Noir should have had Marinette figured out by that point because of the exchange where they look for the other's civilian identity among the people in goo pods.

      It was before she sabotage the soup. She has a short exhange with Adrien before Chloé shows up and after her uncle leaves:

      Marinette: Thanks, Adrien. I'm totally sorry for bothering you for nothing. I really thought he couldn't speak English.
      Adrien: No problem Marinette. It was awesome to be able to practice my Chinese, especially with a Shifu.
      Marinette: A Shifu?
      Adrien: That means "Master" in Chinese. Your Mom's Uncle is a great master!

      Then Chloé shows up. She has a conversation with him after Chloé leaves, too:
      Adrien: Wow, you really stood up for Cheng Shifu. He would've appreciated that.
      Marinette: I'm not not sure. I don't think he likes me.
      Adrien: Oh no, you're wrong.
      Marinette: No, I swear! He even ripped up the bouquet I gave him.
      Adrien: Cheng Shifu isn't just a chef, Marinette -- he's an artist! He told me he was gonna put flowers in his Celestial Soup. He said he improvises on fateful things that come his way. The flowers he mentioned must be the ones you gave him!
      Marinette: So... you think he actually likes me?
      Adrien: (He grabs Marinette's shoulders) Totally! He's shown you great respect in his own special way. (Marinette sighs happily.)

      There's also this one, which is pretty adorable, I think:
      Adrien: (Trying to push the door open) Eh! (He bends down and sticks his finger in the liquid)
      Marinette: What's that?
      Adrien: Caramel? (dips finger on it and tastes it) Mmm. It might taste good but it's totally indestructible. Looks like we're trapped inside.
      Marinette: My Great Uncle is still upstairs!
      Adrien: Don't worry, I'll find him.
      Marinette: Thanks. I'll... look for a way out of here...

      She acts completely normal, like she's talking with Cat Noir, during both exchanges. She even contradicts him at one point, and I actually kind of like these two exchanges because Marinette feels like she's at her most genuine. She's comfortable around Adrien there, and it's a rare moment where she, as Marinette, isn't thinking only of Adrien or being Ladybug. She's apologetic that she wasted his time (even though Adrien doesn't see it that way) and worried that her uncle doesn't like her (which Adrien assures her isn't true). They're nice exchanges that really show the cultural differences between China and France, and do show that Marinette is, at heart, a pretty sweet girl. It also highlights what a genuinely nice guy Adrien is and how even as Adrien, he's capable of acting authorative like Cat Noir is with civilians, keeping in mind how Adrien is usually pretty soft-spoken. The two work well off each other when Marinette is not being a bundle of awkwardness and nerves, and this is I think the only episode in Season 1 where this happens, but it shows up a few times in Season 2 to my recollection.

      Well, he gave himself the power of the Collector because it matched his emotions at the time. Like I said, akumas seem to gain their powers related to what upset them. Just wanting to get her back might not grant him the power he needs to find her. I think if he wants to get her back and the only way is through the Ladybug and Black Cat's wish-granting powers, she must have died. But I really hope the clues they've dropped mean his plan has nothing, or very little, to do with his wife. It'd mean I'm right for once about something. Aside from her photo in the locket, we've had no indication she is his motivation. That's been nothing but an assumption so far.

      They know she can mess up good when she talks to Adrien, and her moaning about why she didn't take his offer pretty much cements that it was completely unintentionnal on her part to actually pass up on his offer, and the fact that the plan was actually put in action with her approval and deciding to go along with it kind of proves how serious she is about it, but just her inahability to actually says what she wants when she talks to him plus her nervousness just came up at the last moment and threw her last chance to spend time with Adrien by the window.

      You're welcome!

      Yeah, but that would have meant she would have figured him out too maybe if he actually told her, blowing up their identities to their classmates, no?

      Maybe it was more because she was a bit upset, him speaking english might have made her thought that now she could speak to him without going by Adrien and that he could leave? I could have pegged that in character for her.

      She always had self confidence issues, even with her own friends (she thought Alya would end their friendship if she knew she had deleted her interview in Mime, or thought Adrien would have hated her if he knew she stole his phone or was stalking him, in Copycat and Puppeteer, respectively), so her being upset that her mom's uncle doesn't like her might have override her nervousness over Adrien. 

      Well, technically, I'm not sure why she was apologizing, it was Alya who called Adrien, not her, and he was enjoying his time with her mom's uncle, plus the fact that he came actually meant he had some free time I guess, and it was educative for him, so I feel she's just over cautious over things that aren't of her control. Wonder if her mom knew he spoke english a bit, maybe she could have tolde her, or she could have asked her too, but anyway. I also think that when the goo came out she instantly entered into Ladybug's mode, like Adrien goes Chat Noir mode when things go sour, like in Timebreaker when he told everyone to run when the villain came for them.

      I second that. But if he actually wears the photo of his wife inside the brooch, plus the ending card of Collector that showed her pic in the locket again, doesn't that mean that she's actually the source of his motivation for getting the miraculouses? If it's not to find her or bring her back, maybe it's to make her own wish come true instead? She might have wanted something and they went to Tibet for it, where they got the book and the miraculouses, she might have thought about what she could have or do, and before actually being able to do anything, she vanished? Gabriel said he got the book form his wife when they went to a trip together, seeing how much he loves her and gets fond of her just by thinking of her, or when he's so sad when thinking about her, I doubt he'd lie about her doing something like this, not like Marinette and Adrien could do much with that information anyway.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      They know she can mess up good when she talks to Adrien, and her moaning about why she didn't take his offer pretty much cements that it was completely unintentionnal on her part to actually pass up on his offer, and the fact that the plan was actually put in action with her approval and deciding to go along with it kind of proves how serious she is about it, but just her inahability to actually says what she wants when she talks to him plus her nervousness just came up at the last moment and threw her last chance to spend time with Adrien by the window.

      You're welcome!

      Yeah, but that would have meant she would have figured him out too maybe if he actually told her, blowing up their identities to their classmates, no?

      Maybe it was more because she was a bit upset, him speaking english might have made her thought that now she could speak to him without going by Adrien and that he could leave? I could have pegged that in character for her.

      She always had self confidence issues, even with her own friends (she thought Alya would end their friendship if she knew she had deleted her interview in Mime, or thought Adrien would have hated her if he knew she stole his phone or was stalking him, in Copycat and Puppeteer, respectively), so her being upset that her mom's uncle doesn't like her might have override her nervousness over Adrien. 

      Well, technically, I'm not sure why she was apologizing, it was Alya who called Adrien, not her, and he was enjoying his time with her mom's uncle, plus the fact that he came actually meant he had some free time I guess, and it was educative for him, so I feel she's just over cautious over things that aren't of her control. Wonder if her mom knew he spoke english a bit, maybe she could have tolde her, or she could have asked her too, but anyway. I also think that when the goo came out she instantly entered into Ladybug's mode, like Adrien goes Chat Noir mode when things go sour, like in Timebreaker when he told everyone to run when the villain came for them.

      I second that. But if he actually wears the photo of his wife inside the brooch, plus the ending card of Collector that showed her pic in the locket again, doesn't that mean that she's actually the source of his motivation for getting the miraculouses? If it's not to find her or bring her back, maybe it's to make her own wish come true instead? She might have wanted something and they went to Tibet for it, where they got the book and the miraculouses, she might have thought about what she could have or do, and before actually being able to do anything, she vanished? Gabriel said he got the book form his wife when they went to a trip together, seeing how much he loves her and gets fond of her just by thinking of her, or when he's so sad when thinking about her, I doubt he'd lie about her doing something like this, not like Marinette and Adrien could do much with that information anyway.

      I dunno, mate. They know she's serious about her crush, but they might not take her obsession seriously.

      Well, no. It's Cat Noir's tone and expressions. Watch the scene, in any language, where he confirms that Adrien is fine and asks about Marinette and her reply. I actually sat down and watched the scene in every langugage offered on Netflix, and it doesn't change- Adrien's tone of voice sounds like he's trying to trick her when he asks about Marinette. And it is Adrien's voice he's throwing, not Cat Noir's, if that makes sense. The inflection and tone match more with Adrien.

      (sigh) I don't know why I try to get you to just give Marinette credit for growing as a character...

      Well, here's why I think it may have little to do with his wife: Firstly, he tells Adrien and Marinette what sounds like two different stories for how he obtained the book. He tells Marinette he got the book while overseas with his wife, and tells Adrien the book was given to him by her instead. They sound like different stories to me. The first seems like the truth, and the second sounded like it was designed to guilt-trip Adrien so he never goes looking at the book again. Second, he seems kind of detached about her being missing. It obviously distresses Adrien, but we never see Gabriel emote about it. Every time he looks at her painting in the atelier, you could argue that he's looking at it because it's part of his lair and has a safe behind it. Adrien shows time and again how much he misses her (it's even kind of implied he thinks she's dead and no one wants to tell him this). We don't really get much of a reaction from Gabriel, and it's possible the locket (which is not the brooch, it's way too huge to be the brooch) is meant to identify Gabriel has Hawk Moth, not reference his goals. Third, like I said before, he seems unable to get his wish through using his akuma's powers and he seems to have the ability to grant just about any power. The Pharaoh was almost able to bring someone back from the dead. Timebreaker has power over time itself. Many akumas have the power to steal the will of others. Dark Cupid was able to erase love. Both Evillustrator and Volpina had the ability to turn whatever they wanted into reality. Befana has the power to turn people into coal or grant them wings. Prime Queen and Lady Wifi could digitise themselves. Copycat was able to perfectly mimic the powers of an actual Miraculous holder, and Antibug had powers heavily based on Ladybug's (albeit not exactly, since her Lucky Charm is different than any Charm Ladybug has called). He grants invisibility and intangiability. The man can grant just about any power under the sun, there doesn't seem to be a limit. Despite that, he is unable to get what he wants. Fourth, this thing he wants is done is a "wish" of some kind, a wish that we know involves erasing some kind of event in the ambiguous past. We don't know whose past or how far back the wish goes in time. Hawk Moth just says "the" past. Fifth, he seems to be getting more and more desperate and impatient. Almost like he's running out of time to get the wish he wants granted done. I can't think of any other reason he'd use Gigantitan like that rather than go with someone else (we know from "Despair Bear" he isn't exactly picky), let Befana boss him around, or not revoke Robostus's powers after he started becoming extremely disobedient (he threatened to, but didn't actually do it). He also doesn't revoke Gigantitan's powers. So unless Hawk Moth does not have the power to take away power he gives out and that's an empty threat of his, it seems he's gotten extremely desperate and doesn't care what happens as long as he gets the Miraculouses. He doesn't even seem all that happy about Robostus being defeated even though Robostus almost killed him. There's also the fact that if you arrange the timeline using the clues we have, he's gotten more and more active. We know there's akuma fights we haven't seen (I mean there isn't a single one that can be pinpointed as being in October, November, or January for certain), but by May and June (at least as far as the episodes themselves want you to put them, but not Astruc himself), he's gotten chillingly desperate and the amount of attacks has taken an increase and things are getting more and more dangerous.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I dunno, mate. They know she's serious about her crush, but they might not take her obsession seriously.

      Well, no. It's Cat Noir's tone and expressions. Watch the scene, in any language, where he confirms that Adrien is fine and asks about Marinette and her reply. I actually sat down and watched the scene in every langugage offered on Netflix, and it doesn't change- Adrien's tone of voice sounds like he's trying to trick her when he asks about Marinette. And it is Adrien's voice he's throwing, not Cat Noir's, if that makes sense. The inflection and tone match more with Adrien.

      (sigh) I don't know why I try to get you to just give Marinette credit for growing as a character...

      Well, here's why I think it may have little to do with his wife: Firstly, he tells Adrien and Marinette what sounds like two different stories for how he obtained the book. He tells Marinette he got the book while overseas with his wife, and tells Adrien the book was given to him by her instead. They sound like different stories to me. The first seems like the truth, and the second sounded like it was designed to guilt-trip Adrien so he never goes looking at the book again. Second, he seems kind of detached about her being missing. It obviously distresses Adrien, but we never see Gabriel emote about it. Every time he looks at her painting in the atelier, you could argue that he's looking at it because it's part of his lair and has a safe behind it. Adrien shows time and again how much he misses her (it's even kind of implied he thinks she's dead and no one wants to tell him this). We don't really get much of a reaction from Gabriel, and it's possible the locket (which is not the brooch, it's way too huge to be the brooch) is meant to identify Gabriel has Hawk Moth, not reference his goals. Third, like I said before, he seems unable to get his wish through using his akuma's powers and he seems to have the ability to grant just about any power. The Pharaoh was almost able to bring someone back from the dead. Timebreaker has power over time itself. Many akumas have the power to steal the will of others. Dark Cupid was able to erase love. Both Evillustrator and Volpina had the ability to turn whatever they wanted into reality. Befana has the power to turn people into coal or grant them wings. Prime Queen and Lady Wifi could digitise themselves. Copycat was able to perfectly mimic the powers of an actual Miraculous holder, and Antibug had powers heavily based on Ladybug's (albeit not exactly, since her Lucky Charm is different than any Charm Ladybug has called). He grants invisibility and intangiability. The man can grant just about any power under the sun, there doesn't seem to be a limit. Despite that, he is unable to get what he wants. Fourth, this thing he wants is done is a "wish" of some kind, a wish that we know involves erasing some kind of event in the ambiguous past. We don't know whose past or how far back the wish goes in time. Hawk Moth just says "the" past. Fifth, he seems to be getting more and more desperate and impatient. Almost like he's running out of time to get the wish he wants granted done. I can't think of any other reason he'd use Gigantitan like that rather than go with someone else (we know from "Despair Bear" he isn't exactly picky), let Befana boss him around, or not revoke Robostus's powers after he started becoming extremely disobedient (he threatened to, but didn't actually do it). He also doesn't revoke Gigantitan's powers. So unless Hawk Moth does not have the power to take away power he gives out and that's an empty threat of his, it seems he's gotten extremely desperate and doesn't care what happens as long as he gets the Miraculouses. He doesn't even seem all that happy about Robostus being defeated even though Robostus almost killed him. There's also the fact that if you arrange the timeline using the clues we have, he's gotten more and more active. We know there's akuma fights we haven't seen (I mean there isn't a single one that can be pinpointed as being in October, November, or January for certain), but by May and June (at least as far as the episodes themselves want you to put them, but not Astruc himself), he's gotten chillingly desperate and the amount of attacks has taken an increase and things are getting more and more dangerous.

      Well, if Alix finds it creepy and Rose romantic, I doubt they wouldn't think she's serious or obssessive, they went with the plan and supported her, pretty sure that counts for something. I just hope they won't do something like that again.

      He's a good actor, better than Marinette, that's for sure.

      She doesn't grow so much with her crush, she can talk to him sometimes, but not enough to properly tell him what she wants all the time, Riposte might have been an exception because she was confused how they were doing, and needed explanations, and she does seems to froze every now and then, even in Season 2. It more like comes and goes, you know?

      What if he's ill, or Adrien and he wants to either save himself or his son? That might have been her wish, or maybe she knows they have limited time, and went missing, but actually is trying to find a cure? Adrien is kept in the dark, like all the time, Gabriel knows his wife is searching for it and as such doesn't brood over it so much, but can't tell Adrien about it, because he wouldn't be able to take it. Gabriel thinks it would be faster with the miraculous, though, but his wife thinks otherwise. All random speculation here, don't take any of this seriously or start tearing the entire hypothesis down, not worth it since it's just wild speculation, nothing concrete nor serious that I think, just the first hypothesis that came to me. 

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    • I first watched this episode in Spanish. I guess I can say that I like their voices for that but honestly French is still my favorite especially since I can understand some of it.

      I wish I could've video-taped my own reactions for when I first watched it. First I was just like "Okay, this is funny . . . this is cool . . . haha Ladybug and Cat Noir facepalm. . . oh my gosh Cat Noir holding a cat." (btw that scene was adorable. <3 ) I didn't realize the singer Marinette was listening to was Laura Marona (is that how you spell her last name . . . ? probably not lol) and haha Tikki was dancing to it. But then I read the Trivia section and realized it then. I still can't believe she's going to be akumatized . . .

      Anyway I missed the first look Adrien gave the principal when he was hurrying everyone out, but I saw the little sneaky look he gave him the second time.

      OKAY . . .Ladybug and Cat Noir spent half a day​ sitting on a roof talking, which stopped at sunset. That SO counts as a date, even if they weren't talking about that kind of stuff. Still, it was so cute; I freaked out and replayed it when I realized what they were doing. Ladynoir is my favorite ship and I am so so so so happy because the whole of Dark Owl was Ladynoir. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

      Then he got akumatized . . . My sis came upstairs and started watching with me, so I had to pause it and explain the first half, to which she responded with these faces--😐😶🙄 lol Anyway I played it again and continued watching... ahem back to my opinion. ;)

      I saw the parallel with Batman they were doing, but I missed the whole thing about Albert instead of Alfred-- super-sister filled me in on that. :) Then as the fight progressed, I just started freaking out. Out loud. (I'm a major fangirl--that's my thing lol) When they got trapped in the giant box thing, at first I thought the whole filling-with-whipped-cream thing was a little more humorous than actually dangerous but when Dark Owl described why he used it instead of water, it made more sense. Then from the point where they stood back and detransformed (with their eyes closed :( ) I was just sitting up straight as rigid as a rock and making fangirl noises the whole rest of the time. (aka trying really really hard not to scream) (and failing miserably) I actually thought they gave up their miraculouses, so I was actually about to die of excessive fangirl fear that everything was going down until Hawk Moth realizes that their fake and made of salt. Then I relaxed but then started positively fangirling again when Cat Noir destroyed the box thing and when Dark Owl saw them in their awesome poses. (awesome soundtrack in that scene btw) Then I literally was screaming (on a low volume to spare my household from getting struck deaf) when it showed the ultimate OFFICIAL​ LadyNoir picture: the awesome backround with the Ladybug symbol and Cat Symbol combined.

      I started freaking again when he took off her one earring and started detransforming, but then it all turned out well and I relaxed after being totally tensed up nearly the entire episode. (I still replay the second half a million times per day, though-- I cant stop) Then sweet Kitty asked his Lady to the movies and she declined BUT WITH A SMILE AND APOLOGY!!!!!!!!!!!

      I am SO happy.

      And that is my opinion.

      The end.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Well, if Alix finds it creepy and Rose romantic, I doubt they wouldn't think she's serious or obssessive, they went with the plan and supported her, pretty sure that counts for something. I just hope they won't do something like that again.

      He's a good actor, better than Marinette, that's for sure.

      She doesn't grow so much with her crush, she can talk to him sometimes, but not enough to properly tell him what she wants all the time, Riposte might have been an exception because she was confused how they were doing, and needed explanations, and she does seems to froze every now and then, even in Season 2. It more like comes and goes, you know?

      What if he's ill, or Adrien and he wants to either save himself or his son? That might have been her wish, or maybe she knows they have limited time, and went missing, but actually is trying to find a cure? Adrien is kept in the dark, like all the time, Gabriel knows his wife is searching for it and as such doesn't brood over it so much, but can't tell Adrien about it, because he wouldn't be able to take it. Gabriel thinks it would be faster with the miraculous, though, but his wife thinks otherwise. All random speculation here, don't take any of this seriously or start tearing the entire hypothesis down, not worth it since it's just wild speculation, nothing concrete nor serious that I think, just the first hypothesis that came to me. 

      Considering wll the second-hand embarrassment and cringe I felt? Me too. But Alya doesn't seem the type to take "no" for an answer. Like I'm pretty sure that's why the plan went through- Alya doesn't seem the type to listen.

      He is.

      Why does there need to be some strenuous circumstances to make her talk to him normally? Why can't she just be able to talk to him (somewhat) normally now and it's circumstances that make her lapse occasionally back into nervousness, like her surprise and delight that he actually keeps her lucky charm on him and made her one to match? Most of the time she can actually string together sentences around him without stumbling over it unless her nerves/embarrassment get the better of her like in "Gigantitan" (I like to think she at least thought the plan was wrong, since she questions Alya about it despite going along with it and eventually rejects going with Adrien like the plan would have ended up with anyway) or she's really happy and surprised, like in "Befana".

      Hmm... That does cast Gabriel's overprotection, yet distance, in a different light and it kinda makes a little more sense. If Adrien is actually ill or something, that is. Like he doesn't want to lose him, so he's very overprotective of him, but at the same time, he knows he'll lose Adrien, so he puts up a wall so it'll hurt less when it happens. Adrien implies his dad has always been that way, so that is one possibility, though we've never had any indication of it from Adrien's end. Indeed, apart from Gabriel's overprotectiveness, there's been no indication that I can recall but I can re-watch the show so far with that in mind. Letting Adrien go to school is letting him have some happiness, and it also lets him work more easily as Hawk Moth without his son home. Keeping him busy with fencing and Chinese, too... Interestng take on it... I suppose the only true flaw is how Adrien being ill is a past event he'd like to erase, unless it was caused by something when Adrien was younger.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Considering wll the second-hand embarrassment and cringe I felt? Me too. But Alya doesn't seem the type to take "no" for an answer. Like I'm pretty sure that's why the plan went through- Alya doesn't seem the type to listen.

      He is.

      Why does there need to be some strenuous circumstances to make her talk to him normally? Why can't she just be able to talk to him (somewhat) normally now and it's circumstances that make her lapse occasionally back into nervousness, like her surprise and delight that he actually keeps her lucky charm on him and made her one to match? Most of the time she can actually string together sentences around him without stumbling over it unless her nerves/embarrassment get the better of her like in "Gigantitan" (I like to think she at least thought the plan was wrong, since she questions Alya about it despite going along with it and eventually rejects going with Adrien like the plan would have ended up with anyway) or she's really happy and surprised, like in "Befana".

      Hmm... That does cast Gabriel's overprotection, yet distance, in a different light and it kinda makes a little more sense. If Adrien is actually ill or something, that is. Like he doesn't want to lose him, so he's very overprotective of him, but at the same time, he knows he'll lose Adrien, so he puts up a wall so it'll hurt less when it happens. Adrien implies his dad has always been that way, so that is one possibility, though we've never had any indication of it from Adrien's end. Indeed, apart from Gabriel's overprotectiveness, there's been no indication that I can recall but I can re-watch the show so far with that in mind. Letting Adrien go to school is letting him have some happiness, and it also lets him work more easily as Hawk Moth without his son home. Keeping him busy with fencing and Chinese, too... Interestng take on it... I suppose the only true flaw is how Adrien being ill is a past event he'd like to erase, unless it was caused by something when Adrien was younger.

      Going that way, they take it seriously since Alya make a plan of that level just so Marinette would get a date with Adrien, and Marinette actually going along with it after the questions and nervousness, it would be hard for the girls to not take it seriously. Wonder why they thought it was a good idea however, then again Alya doesn't have the best ideas either, taking a picture of the inside of Chloé's locker, staying around to film instead of leaving makes her getting captured by the Pharaoh, or in Origins, her getting too close gets her with a car pinning her to a wall, sometimes she does have some good ideas and makes pretty good points, other times... I hope she'll get better as Rena Rouge.

      Indeed, and I love him for it. Unlike Marinette, he can make some good excuses with his schedule, he can say he has a photoshoot, or a piano lesson, or something else.

      Because she can't think straight much when it comes to Adrien, but if something important to her makes it more preocuppying than her crush on him, then she might. Might be case of the lesser of the two evil/fear/problem/whatever you want it. Like you know, if something usually makes you nervous a lot but then something bigger comes in the picture, suddently that something you usually have problems with sounds not so big deal comparing to the other thing more important? Like you seems to be stressed about not doing something, only to be reminded that there is something else more essantial and that that little something is pretty trivial comparing to the other thing who is much more urgent/important/bigger? Giving you an example here: I'm afraid of heights and I hate taking a plane or an helicopter (took the plane twice, helicopter once). Between the 2 of them, I would go with the helicopter. Why? Helicopters don't fly high enough to get the headache you gets when you're in a plane at maximum altitude. Kills me everytime, plus that I got sick both time I took the plane. Also I thnk I would have a better chance at surviving at a helicopter crash than a plane crash.

      Maybe it has to do with the fact that Hawk Moth use the miraculous for evil instead of good? Since it's again it's natural balance, it might get back to him, or to the one he loves the most, and that would be Adrien A curse maybe? With the miraculous, the kwamis and Plagg mentionning the genie of the lamp, curses can be a lead too? Maybe it's something hereditary? He found out something in his bloodline that pass through the men, and him and Adrien have it. But it only takes them to a certain age. Adrien is still fine because he's a teenager, but Gabriel is close to having his illness caught to him because he's an adult? I think that happens in real life, no?

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    • I'm probably completely wrong to say this but this discussion isn't really about Dark Owl anymore... It's more just a very long conversation that is annoying to scroll through... I'm really sorry but it is sort of irritating it's been going on for days now!

      I apologise if I sound rude, I really don't mean to!

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    • Slabcity wrote:
      I'm probably completely wrong to say this but this discussion isn't really about Dark Owl anymore... It's more just a very long conversation that is annoying to scroll through... I'm really sorry but it is sort of irritating it's been going on for days now!

      I apologise if I sound rude, I really don't mean to!

      You could have said something days ago, then, you know.

      Also, that comment isn't exactly about "Dark Owl", either.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Maybe it has to do with the fact that Hawk Moth use the miraculous for evil instead of good? Since it's again it's natural balance, it might get back to him, or to the one he loves the most, and that would be Adrien A curse maybe? With the miraculous, the kwamis and Plagg mentionning the genie of the lamp, curses can be a lead too? Maybe it's something hereditary? He found out something in his bloodline that pass through the men, and him and Adrien have it. But it only takes them to a certain age. Adrien is still fine because he's a teenager, but Gabriel is close to having his illness caught to him because he's an adult? I think that happens in real life, no?

      Only replying to this since it's relevant to the topic of "Dark Owl", since we're discussing Hawk Moth's "wish". I'll get to the rest elsewhere.

      Curses could do. I think there is magic that isn't part of the Miraculouses in the world. Like it's rare, but genetic, but supervillains and superheroes that don't have Miraculous powers do exist, I think.

      Hawk Moth started using the Miraculous for evil to get the Ladybug and Black Cat Miraculouses, so his wish has to come from something that happened before "Origins Part 1". Something that happened pretty recently, I'd wager. Assuming he found the Miraculouses when overseas with his wife (but not Adrien?), then he had them before she disappeared. But he didn't use them. In fact, he never used the Miraculouses prior to 2 September, 2013 (the date "Origins Part 1" seems to be on, based on Marinette's calendar for January through June being vaguely correct for 2014). Wayzz reacts with surprise to feel Nooroo's Miraculous being active, and Master Fu speaks of the Peacock as if it's still lost in "The Collector", nor does he ever bring up that Hawk Moth surely has them both. So he didn't use the Peacock, either. Adrien's reaction to his mother being gone suggests she's been missing for quite some time, since we don't see him go through the five stages of grief and he's already accepted she's gone. He just misses her. It hasn't been a year yet, since the Christmas special is his first Christmas without her, but Adrien has oddly not mentioned that it HAS been a year yet, not even to Plagg. I'd guess she'd been missing for at least a few months by "Origins", enough to give Adrien no hope she was coming back. So she went missing somewhere between the end of December and maybe the end of June. And at no point did Gabriel use either Miraculous. So something happened in August (or on 1 September) that made him do so. Something in August made him realise he needs the Miraculouses.

      Something happened at the end of summer to make Gabriel desperate for a "wish", enough that he'd turn to villainy. Once we find out what that was, we'll know his wish.


      ... Actually, now I bring it up... You know what else Master Fu doesn't mention Hawk Moth surely has? The Peacock Miraculous.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Only replying to this since it's relevant to the topic of "Dark Owl", since we're discussing Hawk Moth's "wish". I'll get to the rest elsewhere.

      Curses could do. I think there is magic that isn't part of the Miraculouses in the world. Like it's rare, but genetic, but supervillains and superheroes that don't have Miraculous powers do exist, I think.

      Hawk Moth started using the Miraculous for evil to get the Ladybug and Black Cat Miraculouses, so his wish has to come from something that happened before "Origins Part 1". Something that happened pretty recently, I'd wager. Assuming he found the Miraculouses when overseas with his wife (but not Adrien?), then he had them before she disappeared. But he didn't use them. In fact, he never used the Miraculouses prior to 2 September, 2013 (the date "Origins Part 1" seems to be on, based on Marinette's calendar for January through June being vaguely correct for 2014). Wayzz reacts with surprise to feel Nooroo's Miraculous being active, and Master Fu speaks of the Peacock as if it's still lost in "The Collector", nor does he ever bring up that Hawk Moth surely has them both. So he didn't use the Peacock, either. Adrien's reaction to his mother being gone suggests she's been missing for quite some time, since we don't see him go through the five stages of grief and he's already accepted she's gone. He just misses her. It hasn't been a year yet, since the Christmas special is his first Christmas without her, but Adrien has oddly not mentioned that it HAS been a year yet, not even to Plagg. I'd guess she'd been missing for at least a few months by "Origins", enough to give Adrien no hope she was coming back. So she went missing somewhere between the end of December and maybe the end of June. And at no point did Gabriel use either Miraculous. So something happened in August (or on 1 September) that made him do so. Something in August made him realise he needs the Miraculouses.

      Something happened at the end of summer to make Gabriel desperate for a "wish", enough that he'd turn to villainy. Once we find out what that was, we'll know his wish.


      ... Actually, now I bring it up... You know what else Master Fu doesn't mention Hawk Moth surely has? The Peacock Miraculous.

      Okay.

      Indeed. That Mage who created the miraculouses for example.

      Wonder what it could be...

      Indeed. Can't wait to know.

      Well, maybe because he hasn't seen its powers being used, nor did Wayzz sensed the peacock being used. Hence why he doesn't mention it, he can't be sure he got the peacock unless it's activated maybe? Maybe that's why he'll give the turtle miraculous away, with 2 miraculous used for evil, the rest must band together to defeat them. If the powers of the butterfly miraculous combined with the powers of the peacock makes as much of a dangerous combination as we think it will be, five miraculous agaisnt them should be good. Oh, and let's not forget the miraculous holder of a never seen before miraculous, which we have no idea if he/she will be on the side of good and evil.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Slabcity wrote:
      I'm probably completely wrong to say this but this discussion isn't really about Dark Owl anymore... It's more just a very long conversation that is annoying to scroll through... I'm really sorry but it is sort of irritating it's been going on for days now!

      I apologise if I sound rude, I really don't mean to!

      You could have said something days ago, then, you know.

      Also, that comment isn't exactly about "Dark Owl", either.

      Umm all Slabcity said was that you're both going off topic. And its your own priority to stay on topic and realize your mistakes yourself. Stay on topic both of you. Discuss the events that occured in Dark Owl. Not something you think Plagg would find creepy as thats not related to this episode.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Well, maybe because he hasn't seen its powers being used, nor did Wayzz sensed the peacock being used. Hence why he doesn't mention it, he can't be sure he got the peacock unless it's activated maybe? Maybe that's why he'll give the turtle miraculous away, with 2 miraculous used for evil, the rest must band together to defeat them. If the powers of the butterfly miraculous combined with the powers of the peacock makes as much of a dangerous combination as we think it will be, five miraculous agaisnt them should be good. Oh, and let's not forget the miraculous holder of a never seen before miraculous, which we have no idea if he/she will be on the side of good and evil.

      But he sensed the Moth's use immediately once it was used. So that means that the Peacock wasn't used, nor was the Moth used, not prior to "Origins", since he didn't sense them before and they were thought to be lost. So whatever Hawk Moth's "wish" is, it relates to something that happened pretty recently to "Origins".

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    • CaseyTheCupcakeQueen234 wrote:

      Umm all Slabcity said was that you're both going off topic. And its your own priority to stay on topic and realize your mistakes yourself. Stay on topic both of you. Discuss the events that occured in Dark Owl. Not something you think Plagg would find creepy as thats not related to this episode.

      I did try and keep on topic, but the conversation kept evolving, thank you. You'd do well to notice that started as talking about something in "Dark Owl". I'm aware I made a mistake, you may have noticed I said a few times that we are off topic or made a direct effort to re-rail. That was more a playful jab and the hypocricy of complaining that someone is off-topic while making no effort to get on topic themselves.

      And not contributing anything about "Dark Owl" and just criticising other people is not staying on the topic of "Dark Owl", so I was also correct.

      That said, what's your opinion on Hawk Moth's wish? Yours and Slabcity's? Considering in "Dark Owl" we learn he wants to erase a past event and considering the magnitude of Hawk Moth's ability to give powers makes it seem like he can give just about any power you can think of? Considering also how Wayzz did not feel the power of the Moth before "Origins Part 1" and how no mention of the Peacock being active has been made nor has Master Fu implied the Peacock should also be in the hands of Hawk Moth? What past event could he want to erase, what could have happened in August to make him realise he needs to use the Moth Miraculous's power to erase that past event? He seems to know what he's doing when he's talking to Nooroo, so he's already familiar with how the power works, so it's possible he can read the book. Where did he learn to read it? Is Master Fu truly the last Guardian? If he knows about the equivilent exchange, what does he think will be traded so he can erase the event from the past?

      Come to think of it, Gigantitan's name was August. Coincidence? Probably.

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    • How about, to stay on topic, we go to Hawk Moth's page and start a discussion on his secret wish and maybe the Peacock Miraculous being in his possession there. Unless someone already did? Or if they did, you can continue it there. I have a theory about what he wants which is the most-likely option but it had absolutely nothing to do with Dark Owl.

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    • Okay I started the dicussion.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      But he sensed the Moth's use immediately once it was used. So that means that the Peacock wasn't used, nor was the Moth used, not prior to "Origins", since he didn't sense them before and they were thought to be lost. So whatever Hawk Moth's "wish" is, it relates to something that happened pretty recently to "Origins".

      Actually he sensed when Hawk Moth transformed, not when Nooroo cam out of the brooch. Maybe Duusu is out of her miraculous, but isn't used and is separated from it? If Nathalie or Mrs Agreste will be Le Paon, maybe they just let the miraculous being left in the safe, without renouncing Duusu, hence why the peacock miraculous looks like that? It might look more like Duusu when she's in it, like in the book. Maybe's she's hanging around either Nathalie or Mrs Agreste, while her miraculous is safe. I don't see why not, they were only bonded to the miraculous thanks to the mage, but maybe that doesn't mean they can't get away from it, Tikki spend quite some distance and time away from Marinette in Princess Fragrance, and she looked fine even if she was sick. So Wayzz does not sense when the kwami is out of it's miraculous, he senses when it's using their powers. Either that or he was just bidding his time, he must have scanned the entire book first, then asked Nooroo everything he needed to know so he could make plans. Could have taken some time. Since he's playing with very powerful things, he must be aware of the risks and consequences before going for it. Maybe he just decided he was prepared for it and began his career as Hawk Moth only when he had everything he needed to know to make sure the miraculouses and his wish would get to him.

      Hawk Moth sounded so heartbroken when he discovered that the things he had in his hand weren't the miraculouses.

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