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  • This is the official discussion thread for S2E7, "Gigantitan".

    Post and share your thoughts on the episode here. You will not need to mark spoilers in this thread.

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    • This is first time I see an Akuma that misses its target, choosing another one by itself, and Hawk Moth totaly confused, frustrated and not able to control his supervillian just because he couldn't understand any commands !

      Sorry, but it was not this time we are going to see that
      Akumatized Gorilla
       blue gorilla



      I suppose we just found out who is going to be the Ice-Cream Supervillian ! This is the second time that Andre, the ice cream vendor appears. Second episode this sunday was Béfana ! Coincidence ? I don't think so ! He is going to be in more episodes and always something is going to happen with him !
      Unnamed ice cream villain



      And THIS was the best from episode: 

      HM face


      HM face2
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    • This was probably like the funniest episode ever

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    • This episode was very peculiar and anticlimactic. The main plot I appeared to enjoy was the subplot relating to Marinette and her companions. I cherish the dynamic between Marinette and her friends and they have an exceptionally extraordinary kinship.

      Be that as it may, I discovered Hawk Moth's response to the situations was hilarious and amusing. This is the first time through where Hawk Moth erroneously akumatizes the wrong victim. Hawk Moth was aiming to akumatize Adrien's bodyguard, however, the akuma approached the child rather as the baby suppressed negative emotions instead.

      The baby villain was very dreadful but at the same time was very adorable, as well. The baby didn't really understand what her objective was and was interested in eating Ladybug and Cat Noir instead. It was likewise sweet of Marinette for helping the mother and her kid when they were in trouble.

      I'm also proud of Marinette. Her imagination of her and Adrien together was quite cute and although she did tend to stammer a lot, she has grown a lot of confidence with speaking to Adrien.

      In conclusion, I did very appreciate this episode with the subplot of Marinette and her companions and the main plot where the akumatized baby was being frivolous but funny at the same time. And this episode was quite hilarious and entertaining.

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    • Nice episode. But I wish the writers didn't make Marinette so eager to hang around with Adrien. They had the potential to make the plot with Marinette and her mates much better.

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    • I have absolutely no clue what happened beyond what I saw.

      First, please can we make the page image for this episode one of Hawk Moth's hilarious poses? the face-palming, the frozen-in-oh-god-what-happened pose, the banging his cane on the ground with his arm super stiff.... any of that.

      It brought me endless joy.

      So from what I gathered, Marinette and her friends had a plan to get her alone with Adrien for a little bit, and it went surprisingly well-ish, and nearly got the Gorilla akumatised. He calmed down when he found Adrien, and so the akuma went to the nearest source of negative emotions, the baby. Hawk Moth freaked out in the funnist way and decided to apparently run with it rather than just revoke the baby's power and then everything ever went wrong for him and now we know that Gabriel was probably the worst parent ever to baby Adrien.

      Once again I feel the need to remind everyone that person frozen akwardly, face palming, striking angry poses, and banging his cane on the ground with his arm all stiff, is Gabriel Agreste. What even.

      Giant baby throws around Ladybug and Cat Noir a lot, Ladybug has a plan and I think Cat Noir pointed out it's flawed and she told him it'd be OK and lo, it went wrong, the two of them were adorable trying to keep the baby happy and deakumatise it. Baby really likes Cat Noir's bell (who wouldn't, it's adorable), baby also likes sweets. Blah blah, baby is saved and Marinette goes through with the plan to talk to Adrien about something in her sketchbook.

      Adrien actually gets kinda weird around her, but I guess he's needing to be somewhere else and the Gorilla isn't helping, and Marinette turns down his offer to be driven somewhere because... she's going to make cous cous? I honestly have no idea, and Alix throws rose petals and is entertaining.

      Finally, Juleka, Rose, Mylene, and Alix get some spotlight time! I think they had more screentime in this one episode than in all the other episodes combined.


      That all said.... Astruc said there's no filler episodes this season, meaning this one isn't filler. Time to play "spot the plot"!

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    • The reveal that Hawkmoth is Gabriel just makes him even more fun to watch.

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    • Kudos to Thearomalady I just read your post and I couldn't stop laughing.

      I've been annoyed these past weeks because of the lack of information we've been given regarding the season 2 episodes, it felt like we were on another hiatus. I think episode 8 comes out next week - but then I saw something that said otherwise and now I'm really confused.

      ANYWAY...

      I surprisingly really enjoyed this episode. Of course I love an episode with a good plot line - but on the other hand I love this shows characters so much so even though there wasn't much plot I still found the episode enjoyable. Marinette blushing at the start was so cute and then Adrien waving at the baby was adorable and then Marinette helping the mum was equally as cute I could go on forever and ever.

      Hawkmoth is beginning to turn into a villian like Ludo from SVTFOE - basically a really bad and comical one. Its like he wants to bring his wife back but doesn't really try that hard like come on Gabriel what are you doing. Surely he's going to give up at some point because all these akuma attacks are proving useless - UNLESS THEY ARE SOMETHING TO DISTRACT US, LADYBUG AND CHAT NOIR FROM THE BIGGER PICTURE...

      That baby's villian design was ugly. I love this show's animation and all the bright colours they use, but is it really that hard to make a villian look appealing? Or maybe we should be blaming Agreste - he's the fashion designer yet he can't make a villian dress well. I could drone on about how much I don't like the villian etc - but I can't lie and say that this episode was that bad. I'm so pleased that Marinette can speak comfortably(ish) around Adrien - I mean he's still pulling some weird faces at her but I'm sure in time he'll get used to her and hopefully she'll calm down a bit more.

      My future hopes are that Marinette will stop putting Adrien on a pedestal, because that isn't healthy at all. Chat Noir is the real him so if she can love Chat for who he is I think I'd keel over in happiness.

      AND I CAN'T IGNORE MY BABES ALIX JULEKA MYLENNE AND ROSE. I was so happy they made an appearance because I love their characters like idk how this show does it but they seem to be able to make any characters likeable.

      Overall - not the best episode of the season but I enjoyed it a lot.

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    • So the Gorilla just need to see his charge close to him and all of his negative emotions vanish instantly? Wow! I can't figure if it's because he will get fired if something happens to Adrien or if he's just quite worried over Adrien's safety and well-being, maybe both? Oh well, he'll get akumatized eventually. He looked so happy to see Adrien that the akuma totally bypassed him! It was awesome! Hawk Moth's face was so great here, and also his reactions.

      I don't feel like Gabriel was a bad parent to Adrien when he was a toddler, I just think it was from dealing with a giant akumatized baby, after all he could just pick up Adrien when he would go somewhere he didn't want or pick something he wasn't supposed to, and also he had his wife to help him too back then. But akumatized giant babies are another thing entirely, especially when you are connected to his feelings.

      Alix's face when she sees Marinette really knows everything about Adrien is pratically my face everytime I see Marinette thinking of Adrien or doing something out of crazy to get his attention or to get something from him, like his phone. Even she thinks it's a little creepy. Rose finding it romantic isn't exactly what I would say, it is creepy, and she seems to not mind that she basically stalks him, which is quite wrong. If Adrien was stalking Marinette everyone would find it creepy or would call the police or something, but when it's a girl who stalks a boy it's romantic. Urgh, it's not, and I hate the double standart.

      Marinette saying no to Adrien offering her to ride her back home was totally like wait what? reaction. I thought she got over her crush for a second, but then she regrets it and saying she sucks at telling him no. I was like, seriously, you said no? For heaven's sake, I can't believe you. 

      God thing Chat Noir caught the baby, otherwise he would have died.

      So Hawk Moth wasn't intentionally trying to akumatize the baby, just the Gorilla. Too bad that didn't work for him. I think he just went, oh why not, now that he's already in my control might as well use him. Then he regretted it. He could have just took his powers back.

      Ladybug's plan didn't work for once, surprising. Chat Noir thought it was a bit too complicated, he was right.

      Awww, Chat Noir didn't get ice cream. His face is just as sad as when he couldn't have some baked goods from Marinette's parents in Gamer. Poor thing.

      If that André guy is staring to become important, maybe he's a family member of a classmate of Adrien and Marinette? Adtruc said they would introduce more family members, like Marinette's grand-mother, Juleka's older brother Luka, Nino's little brother Noël/Chris, Alya's third sibling, Chloé's mom Audrey, and of course we would get an episode about Adrien's mom. Maybe André is Ivan's father?  

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    • Yet more proof that Hawk Moth isn't as able to control his Akuma as he would prefer. Befana made him humiliate himself, Riposte defied his orders to not attack Adrien, Robustus attacked him in his own lair, and now his plan to akumatize Gorilla backfires due to the butterflies' natural attraction to strong emotions (first seen in Despair Bear) throwing off his aim.

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    • Maetch wrote:
      Yet more proof that Hawk Moth isn't as able to control his Akuma as he would prefer. Befana made him humiliate himself, Riposte defied his orders to not attack Adrien, Robustus attacked him in his own lair, and now his plan to akumatize Gorilla backfires due to the butterflies' natural attraction to strong emotions (first seen in Despair Bear) throwing off his aim.

      Actually Riposte did hold her bargain for a bit, she went to Ladybug as soon as she got there, and it's only until she thinks Adrien is in the sarcophagus that she attacks him, then she would have gone back to Ladybug and Chat Noir. She followed them because she would get Ladybug and Adrien in the same go, since Ladybug protects Adrien. If Ladybug had been crushed by Adrien's death, she could have easily kill her and take her earrings off after. She just told Adrien to not run and stay there, then went to fight Ladybug.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Actually Riposte did hold her bargain for a bit, she went to Ladybug as soon as she got there, and it's only until she thinks Adrien is in the sarcophagus that she attacks him, then she would have gone back to Ladybug and Chat Noir. She followed them because she would get Ladybug and Adrien in the same go, since Ladybug protects Adrien. If Ladybug had been crushed by Adrien's death, she could have easily kill her and take her earrings off after. She just told Adrien to not run and stay there, then went to fight Ladybug.

      Still doesn't change the fact that she attacked the coffin where Adrien was hiding despite HM's explicit orders not to attack him. Had he not already transformed and escaped, that would have been it for Adrien.

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    • Wow, this epesode. This has to be the weirdest episode yet. A crazy plan made by Mari to get Adriens attention? I can roll with that. But it just got plain weird when Hawk Moth accadently akumatised a random baby, who turned out to be pretty destructive. Like, seriously, it takes strengh to force unbreakable string through solid metal. And him trying to eat everyone? What on earth? Did Hawk Moth have any control over them whatsoever? I mean he has been seen to be able to briefly control villens before, so why didn't he do that to baby? Also, he always thretans to remove the villens powers if they don't do as they are told. This turned out to be a nightmare for him. So, why didn't he do that in this episode? This was just one weird episode. 

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    • Maetch wrote:
      Yet more proof that Hawk Moth isn't as able to control his Akuma as he would prefer. Befana made him humiliate himself, Riposte defied his orders to not attack Adrien, Robustus attacked him in his own lair, and now his plan to akumatize Gorilla backfires due to the butterflies' natural attraction to strong emotions (first seen in Despair Bear) throwing off his aim.

      This may be a side-efffect of using the Miraculous for evil, come to think. Nooroo does vaguely imply something might happen if you do.

      Well, he could have revoked the baby's power. He just didn't. He set himself up for failure during the episode. Robostus and Gigantitan are ones he never could have hoped to control because Markov, while capable of feeling, is still a robot and so doesn't I don't think process emotions the same way. Gigantitan is a baby. Befana is older than he is and her normal personality is very unbridled.

      Hawk Moth just needs to stop experimenting and stick to what he knows- human teenagers and adults around his own age. Things go wrong for him when he strays off that path, but he did not tell Riposte to leave the sarcophagus alone, even though if Riposte could figure out Adrien was inside, he should have, too.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      So the Gorilla just need to see his charge close to him and all of his negative emotions vanish instantly? Wow! I can't figure if it's because he will get fired if something happens to Adrien or if he's just quite worried over Adrien's safety and well-being, maybe both? Oh well, he'll get akumatized eventually. He looked so happy to see Adrien that the akuma totally bypassed him! It was awesome! Hawk Moth's face was so great here, and also his reactions.

      I don't feel like Gabriel was a bad parent to Adrien when he was a toddler, I just think it was from dealing with a giant akumatized baby, after all he could just pick up Adrien when he would go somewhere he didn't want or pick something he wasn't supposed to, and also he had his wife to help him too back then. But akumatized giant babies are another thing entirely, especially when you are connected to his feelings.

      Alix's face when she sees Marinette really knows everything about Adrien is pratically my face everytime I see Marinette thinking of Adrien or doing something out of crazy to get his attention or to get something from him, like his phone. Even she thinks it's a little creepy. Rose finding it romantic isn't exactly what I would say, it is creepy, and she seems to not mind that she basically stalks him, which is quite wrong. If Adrien was stalking Marinette everyone would find it creepy or would call the police or something, but when it's a girl who stalks a boy it's romantic. Urgh, it's not, and I hate the double standart.

      Marinette saying no to Adrien offering her to ride her back home was totally like wait what? reaction. I thought she got over her crush for a second, but then she regrets it and saying she sucks at telling him no. I was like, seriously, you said no? For heaven's sake, I can't believe you. 

      God thing Chat Noir caught the baby, otherwise he would have died.

      So Hawk Moth wasn't intentionally trying to akumatize the baby, just the Gorilla. Too bad that didn't work for him. I think he just went, oh why not, now that he's already in my control might as well use him. Then he regretted it. He could have just took his powers back.

      Ladybug's plan didn't work for once, surprising. Chat Noir thought it was a bit too complicated, he was right.

      Awww, Chat Noir didn't get ice cream. His face is just as sad as when he couldn't have some baked goods from Marinette's parents in Gamer. Poor thing.

      If that André guy is staring to become important, maybe he's a family member of a classmate of Adrien and Marinette? Adtruc said they would introduce more family members, like Marinette's grand-mother, Juleka's older brother Luka, Nino's little brother Noël/Chris, Alya's third sibling, Chloé's mom Audrey, and of course we would get an episode about Adrien's mom. Maybe André is Ivan's father?  

      I really can't tell if you want her to get over her crush or not. Like you hate it when she acts on her feelings, but criticise her for not doing so? I think I would have said no, too, because of the expressions on his face and how he's clearly in a rush. What was she trying to show him, anyway?

      Well, Rose is a total romantic, so she probably finds most kinds of romance sweet, where Alix does seem a little more level-headed. Alya I think just never thought much of it, but Alix, as someone new to the situation, is being introduced to the brunt of it. They can't very well backpedal on her knowing where he's going to be since she had a full year's schedule of it, or the fact that she knows a lot about him, but I think the can show her not relying so much on it, especially with Alix pointing out how weird it is. Maybe stop bringing it up.

      Well, Ladybug's plans usually don't work unless it involves her Lucky Charm. So I wasn't too surprised it failed. Pleased to know I read the situation correctly based on body language lol.

      Technically we don't know how Chris/Noel relates to Nino, but he probably is his brother, yes. Brother or younger cousin, I would say.

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    • SomeGirlWhoEditsStuff wrote:
      Wow, this epesode. This has to be the weirdest episode yet. A crazy plan made by Mari to get Adriens attention? I can roll with that. But it just got plain weird when Hawk Moth accadently akumatised a random baby, who turned out to be pretty destructive. Like, seriously, it takes strengh to force unbreakable string through solid metal. And him trying to eat everyone? What on earth? Did Hawk Moth have any control over them whatsoever? I mean he has been seen to be able to briefly control villens before, so why didn't he do that to baby? Also, he always thretans to remove the villens powers if they don't do as they are told. This turned out to be a nightmare for him. So, why didn't he do that in this episode? This was just one weird episode. 

      Well, I don't think the baby was trying to eat everyone- babies just put everything in their mouths.

      Because it causes them pain when he controls them. He wouldn't hurt a baby. He's a villain, but he's not a monster. He also isn't the type to admit he made a mistake, so he couldn't just revoke their powers once Ladybug and Cat Noir showed up, and I think he already knew they were both there, since I think he knows who they are.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Hawk Moth just needs to stop experimenting and stick to what he knows- human teenagers and adults around his own age. Things go wrong for him when he strays off that path, but he did not tell Riposte to leave the sarcophagus alone, even though if Riposte could figure out Adrien was inside, he should have, too.

      Well, if he figured out in Simon Says that his son is Chat Noir, he knew Adrien was out of it since he was seen as Chat Noir 2 minutes before, therefore he knew he was safe.

      The Gorilla officially likes Adrien. The guy change parking twice, got 3 tickets yet as soon as he sees Adrien all the negative emotions flies off, literally. He does care about Adrien after all. So sweet. Given all the crap he's gone through because of Marinette's plan, he does get a good ending with his charge safe and driving him home.

      I liked Alix saying that Marinette knowing everything about Adrien was creepy. she's right. When someone can tell that you left your phone in your car despite never telling them, I suppose that's when it starts to be creepy. 

      Now we know that even with Chloé, Lila, Luka and Kagami in the picture, Marinette doesn't need them to screw something up that would bring her and Adrien closer/together. She can do that on her own in the most epic failed way ever. Couscous, seriously? I'm feeling like that episode was just one that the writers wanted a good laugh at after all the heavy drama from the previous episodes. Still it was gold and probably the funniest episode of both seasons overall.

      I'm peeved about Marinette's plan in this episode. I don't think that she gets that she could have lead to Adrien's bodyguard into some serious trouble, heck might have been fired, because she wanted to take Adrien on a romantic date. We've seen Gabriel when he panicked over his son in Origins and the Christmas episode, so him not knowing where he is because the Gorilla lost him might have gotten ugly, since Adrien wouldn't have his phone to call. Granted Marinette completely wasted everyone's efforts and trouble in the end, but still. That's not nice for his bodyguard. She wasn't even sorry about it. Imagine if he had been akumatized instead of the baby, that would have been on her, well technically the baby was a bit her fault, since she created the frustration built up by the Gorilla with her plan, enough that he was going to be akumatized by Hawk Moth only to change at the last second, but still. Hawk Moth wouldn't have gone with the baby, but he however decided to try it. He did wonders with the Puppeteer, so maybe he thought it could be easy there too.

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    • Marinette is so kindhearted. She helped up the woman and her child by picking the woman's phone and the baby bottle which the pair dropped. She even helped them up the stairs on the Trocadero. Marinette is so cute. And I see why she rejected her time to spend with Adrien. I don't blame her. She wanted to spend time with her girls which is sweet and considerate of her. :)

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Well, if he figured out in Simon Says that his son is Chat Noir, he knew Adrien was out of it since he was seen as Chat Noir 2 minutes before, therefore he knew he was safe.

      The Gorilla officially likes Adrien. The guy change parking twice, got 3 tickets yet as soon as he sees Adrien all the negative emotions flies off, literally. He does care about Adrien after all. So sweet. Given all the crap he's gone through because of Marinette's plan, he does get a good ending with his charge safe and driving him home.

      I liked Alix saying that Marinette knowing everything about Adrien was creepy. she's right. When someone can tell that you left your phone in your car despite never telling them, I suppose that's when it starts to be creepy. 

      Now we know that even with Chloé, Lila, Luka and Kagami in the picture, Marinette doesn't need them to screw something up that would bring her and Adrien closer/together. She can do that on her own in the most epic failed way ever. Couscous, seriously? I'm feeling like that episode was just one that the writers wanted a good laugh at after all the heavy drama from the previous episodes. Still it was gold and probably the funniest episode of both seasons overall.

      I'm peeved about Marinette's plan in this episode. I don't think that she gets that she could have lead to Adrien's bodyguard into some serious trouble, heck might have been fired, because she wanted to take Adrien on a romantic date. We've seen Gabriel when he panicked over his son in Origins and the Christmas episode, so him not knowing where he is because the Gorilla lost him might have gotten ugly, since Adrien wouldn't have his phone to call. Granted Marinette completely wasted everyone's efforts and trouble in the end, but still. That's not nice for his bodyguard. She wasn't even sorry about it. Imagine if he had been akumatized instead of the baby, that would have been on her, well technically the baby was a bit her fault, since she created the frustration built up by the Gorilla with her plan, enough that he was going to be akumatized by Hawk Moth only to change at the last second, but still. Hawk Moth wouldn't have gone with the baby, but he however decided to try it. He did wonders with the Puppeteer, so maybe he thought it could be easy there too.

      That was my point, yes. So Riposte didn't go against Hawk Moth's orders.

      Yeah. I always figured he cares, though. Was it totally Marinette's plan? Cuz it sounded to me like Marinette was denying she had a crush on Adrien at one point, meaning Alya was the one to come up with the plan. And it does sound like her kind of plan.

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    • This is definetily one of, if not the funniest episode for sure, if only because of Hawk Moth's reactions. Speaking of comedy, it seems strange that no one has mentioned the scene where Gorilla gets sucked on by Gigantitan and subsequently thrown into a tree, where he is just baffled at what had happened to him. 

      I laughed pretty hard at that one. 

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I really can't tell if you want her to get over her crush or not. Like you hate it when she acts on her feelings, but criticise her for not doing so? I think I would have said no, too, because of the expressions on his face and how he's clearly in a rush. What was she trying to show him, anyway?

      Well, Rose is a total romantic, so she probably finds most kinds of romance sweet, where Alix does seem a little more level-headed. Alya I think just never thought much of it, but Alix, as someone new to the situation, is being introduced to the brunt of it. They can't very well backpedal on her knowing where he's going to be since she had a full year's schedule of it, or the fact that she knows a lot about him, but I think the can show her not relying so much on it, especially with Alix pointing out how weird it is. Maybe stop bringing it up.

      Well, Ladybug's plans usually don't work unless it involves her Lucky Charm. So I wasn't too surprised it failed. Pleased to know I read the situation correctly based on body language lol.

      Technically we don't know how Chris/Noel relates to Nino, but he probably is his brother, yes. Brother or younger cousin, I would say.

      Well, it's just that all the crap she and the girls pulled through, even thought it didn't work because Marinette was being a good samaritain (points for her, too bad Vincent didn't want Adrien to go), plus the previous episodes showing them more together, plus her having a chance since he invited her to drive her back and her saying no out of nowhere only to berate herself as soon as he goes seems just kind of entirely pointless episode, or completely going back on all the progress she makes, I want her to get a freaking spine and just say yes or ask him or freaking leave him alone if she can't muster the courage. How long will she drag on? Then people might start complaining that he goes more for Kagami later on, well it might be her fault for not acting sooner. Unless she learns to be more assertive in front of him, she'll never get him. Move it or lose it. Seems just like anticlimatic after everything that happened since the beginning of season 2, and now it seems she's back to square one. She could have taken his offer to ride her home, the plan was for them to be together, eve thought the Gorilla was there, but still. And the girls all being disappointed because she just threw all their efforts to waste is perfectly understandable. Unless she was so tongue tied that she said no, she has the habit of denying or saying the opposite of what she's thinking sometimes. And yeah, I don't get what she wanted to show him in the end, wanted to spend time with him, then finally giving up, then getting offered a drive home and saying no to that too? It was better than nothing, but I can't stand people who pass up opportunities given to them in some circustances, Adrien's was normal and great, some of Alya's to spend time with him, not so much. And yes, as much I don't like to see them together, I hate even more the draggin on and on of their relationship, it seems to take so much spots of the plot it seems more like a romance cartoon than anything else. Getting a little bored, and it's a show for little kids who aren't even at the age of understanding everything in the romance, seems more like the romance is for us older fans and the villains and super heroes gig is for the small kids. Urgh. I'm starting to get tired of good shows being swallowed whole by the romance and all the drama with it.

      There's a limit to everything though, Frozen proved that. Wonder if Rose watched it.

      Yeah, she also forgot she was dealing with a giant with amazing strenght, plus that her yo-yo can't break, wasn't her best plan.

      Huh? I thought it was written somewhere that he was Nino's younger brother. I'll go check back.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Well, it's just that all the crap she and the girls pulled through, even thought it didn't work because Marinette was being a good samaritain (points for her, too bad Vincent didn't want Adrien to go), plus the previous episodes showing them more together, plus her having a chance since he invited her to drive her back and her saying no out of nowhere only to berate herself as soon as he goes seems just kind of entirely pointless episode, or completely going back on all the progress she makes, I want her to get a freaking spine and just say yes or ask him or freaking leave him alone if she can't muster the courage. How long will she drag on? Then people might start complaining that he goes more for Kagami later on, well it might be her fault for not acting sooner. Unless she learns to be more assertive in front of him, she'll never get him. Move it or lose it. Seems just like anticlimatic after everything that happened since the beginning of season 2, and now it seems she's back to square one. She could have taken his offer to ride her home, the plan was for them to be together, eve thought the Gorilla was there, but still. And the girls all being disappointed because she just threw all their efforts to waste is perfectly understandable. Unless she was so tongue tied that she said no, she has the habit of denying or saying the opposite of what she's thinking sometimes. And yeah, I don't get what she wanted to show him in the end, wanted to spend time with him, then finally giving up, then getting offered a drive home and saying no to that too? It was better than nothing, but I can't stand people who pass up opportunities given to them in some circustances, Adrien's was normal and great, some of Alya's to spend time with him, not so much. And yes, as much I don't like to see them together, I hate even more the draggin on and on of their relationship, it seems to take so much spots of the plot it seems more like a romance cartoon than anything else. Getting a little bored, and it's a show for little kids who aren't even at the age of understanding everything in the romance, seems more like the romance is for us older fans and the villains and super heroes gig is for the small kids. Urgh. I'm starting to get tired of good shows being swallowed whole by the romance and all the drama with it.

      There's a limit to everything though, Frozen proved that. Wonder if Rose watched it.

      Yeah, she also forgot she was dealing with a giant with amazing strenght, plus that her yo-yo can't break, wasn't her best plan.

      Huh? I thought it was written somewhere that he was Nino's younger brother. I'll go check back.

      I also think you just can't stand Marinette, haha. I don't think they were disappointed she "threw all their efforts out the window", just disappointed Marinette chickened out of taking a step with Adrien. They know Marinette is kind of awkward and shy. They probably all knew that was a possibility. I think Marinette maybe thought she was bothering Adrien. Look at his expressions when he's talking to her. He does not give the impression he wants to talk to her, he seems to be offering her a ride out of courtesy. I would have said no, too. And as you have pointed out, Marinette tends to jump to the negative. I think, from what I've noticed anyway, you would have complained either way- if she did accept the ride, you'd want to know where Kagami and Luka fit in (because you do not want Marinette to end up with Adrien), and complain that this advancement wouldn't mean anything in the end because it's not going to advance their relationship since they insist on this "will they, won't they?" game. I don't think their relationship is going anywhere until Adrien makes a real move on Marinette rather than maybe seeing how she responds to him on a romantic level, or until Marinette learns just who Cat Noir is. I'm not too tired of them teasing it, since I don't feel it was actually teased much in Season 1 (we just get stuff about her crush on Adrien and Cat Noir's on Ladybug, but not the possibility they reciprocate), but I also think maybe everyone was a little OOC this episode, just not as badly as "Volpina". Like... why do Rose, Juleka, Mylene, and especially Alix care about Marinette's love life? Rose I get, and Juleka usually goes along with her, and maybe Mylene wants to help because Marinette helped her and Ivan, but Alix? Why does she care? I never got the impression she was especially close to anyone except maybe Kim in the class. If it's obvious Marinette likes Adrien, why hasn't Chloe bullied her about it? Surely her or Sabrina would have noticed. Adrien's reaction to her was odd, too. He wasn't surprised to see her, but he also didn't seem to want to see her, but that could, again, just be because he was running late and being rushed.

      I ask again: whose plan was this, really? Because I think it was Alya's based on what I could see from the visuals and what little of the French I could pick up, and how Alya is helping explain the plan. Marinette usually is more proactive in explaining her plans and she isn't usually that flushed. The plan also seems more something Alya might invent, using Marinette's knowledge. Like Marinette says that Adrien has a photoshoot that day, so Alya thinks of the plan on the spot and brings in the others. Marinette doesn't want people to know about her crush, as seen in "Animan" when she panics that Nino knows. So unless it's specifically said to be Marinette's plan, I'm going to guess it wasn't.

      There is, but Rose might not see that limit, since stalking is a fairy tale kinda deal and she doesn't think badly of Marinette.

      No, it wasn't her best plan, but I don't think she thought her yo-yo would cut through the Tower. She needs to listen to Cat Noir more, but as we see in "Volpina", she likes being in charge.

      Nope, as far as I know, it's just a younger member of Nino's family, but it's never mentioned how he's related to Nino. Just that they're close. It's not even mentioned how much younger he is, I don't think. People just assume he's Manon's age.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I also think you just can't stand Marinette, haha. I don't think they were disappointed she "threw all their efforts out the window", just disappointed Marinette chickened out of taking a step with Adrien. They know Marinette is kind of awkward and shy. They probably all knew that was a possibility. I think Marinette maybe thought she was bothering Adrien. Look at his expressions when he's talking to her. He does not give the impression he wants to talk to her, he seems to be offering her a ride out of courtesy. I would have said no, too. And as you have pointed out, Marinette tends to jump to the negative. I think, from what I've noticed anyway, you would have complained either way- if she did accept the ride, you'd want to know where Kagami and Luka fit in (because you do not want Marinette to end up with Adrien), and complain that this advancement wouldn't mean anything in the end because it's not going to advance their relationship since they insist on this "will they, won't they?" game. I don't think their relationship is going anywhere until Adrien makes a real move on Marinette rather than maybe seeing how she responds to him on a romantic level, or until Marinette learns just who Cat Noir is. I'm not too tired of them teasing it, since I don't feel it was actually teased much in Season 1 (we just get stuff about her crush on Adrien and Cat Noir's on Ladybug, but not the possibility they reciprocate), but I also think maybe everyone was a little OOC this episode, just not as badly as "Volpina". Like... why do Rose, Juleka, Mylene, and especially Alix care about Marinette's love life? Rose I get, and Juleka usually goes along with her, and maybe Mylene wants to help because Marinette helped her and Ivan, but Alix? Why does she care? I never got the impression she was especially close to anyone except maybe Kim in the class. If it's obvious Marinette likes Adrien, why hasn't Chloe bullied her about it? Surely her or Sabrina would have noticed. Adrien's reaction to her was odd, too. He wasn't surprised to see her, but he also didn't seem to want to see her, but that could, again, just be because he was running late and being rushed.

      I ask again: whose plan was this, really? Because I think it was Alya's based on what I could see from the visuals and what little of the French I could pick up, and how Alya is helping explain the plan. Marinette usually is more proactive in explaining her plans and she isn't usually that flushed. The plan also seems more something Alya might invent, using Marinette's knowledge. Like Marinette says that Adrien has a photoshoot that day, so Alya thinks of the plan on the spot and brings in the others. Marinette doesn't want people to know about her crush, as seen in "Animan" when she panics that Nino knows. So unless it's specifically said to be Marinette's plan, I'm going to guess it wasn't.

      There is, but Rose might not see that limit, since stalking is a fairy tale kinda deal and she doesn't think badly of Marinette.

      No, it wasn't her best plan, but I don't think she thought her yo-yo would cut through the Tower. She needs to listen to Cat Noir more, but as we see in "Volpina", she likes being in charge.

      Nope, as far as I know, it's just a younger member of Nino's family, but it's never mentioned how he's related to Nino. Just that they're close. It's not even mentioned how much younger he is, I don't think. People just assume he's Manon's age.

      I also don't have much patience for how long people keeps fooling aroud such important matters like a crush. When I had a crush on my best friend's older brother, I kind of friendzoned him, because I wasn't sure if he liked me too, and when I asked his mom and she said he was intersted in me, I didn't wait, I asked him out then we dated for almost 2 years before he broke up with me, there was no drama and we're both over it and his sister is still my best friend, well since I've known her for over 10 years before actually getting interested in her brother, and we still have an awesome friendship till death tear us apart and all that (still talking about my best friend, not my ex), still I didn't wait until it was too late, we tried, it didn't work but we're still on good terms. End of story. Unless you take matters into your own hand, you'll never know what you might be missing, and Marinette is clearly just wasting time, and maybe some other stories that could be better than her crush on Adrien, being shown on the show. No patience at all for people who just drag on and on. You can say that Adrien as Chat Noir does that, but he is far too gentlemantly and respectful to actually keep pressuring Ladybug to date all the time since he knows she gets uncomfortable with it, hence why he just flirts, because he respects her boundaries. Marinette stalks him, knows every single little details and just use her powers to keep her rivals (sans Kagami, at least for now anyway until we see her again) at bay, when there is a freaking akuma right there causing havroc (hello Bubbler), despite the fact that she just knew him for a short time, and just gives in to her selfish desires regardless of other people's feelings. Chat Noir didn't threaten Théo with his Cataclysm, but the guy was also getting way too ahead of himself there. Teenage girls all have romance in their hadn at some point to some degree, since it's Marinette, who is nice to everyone and helps everyone, sans Chloé, they feel like they can help her in return, although Alix does bring some good points, and Mylène also seems to think that the whole plan is just too much, judging by her question of why she simply can't ask him without going through all the trouble, I'm pretty sure they could have gotten in trouble for bringing a fake sign just to have someone to get together with her crush. But the facts are more jarring then that: she was morally questionnable with her plan during the entire episode except the part where she helps the mother, having a fake sign, making the Gorilla risk his job and scaring the crap out of him, I say that because if you take into account Adrien's status and life, rich model kid with little world experience who has many fans and has a pretty face that would make him a good price to get kidnapped for a good ransom or just being sold to slavery, akumas attacks can happen anytime anywhere, in Stormy Weather it happened during the shoot, so I understand why the Gorilla is so protective of Adrien and gets angry if he doesn't have him where he should be, because it's not just about him being fired, it's about his charge being in a dangerous environment or situation and him not being able to be there to prevent anything because he isn't supposed to be ther because of some girls finding it a great idea to mess with him so one of them can get a date gets on my nerves like nothing else, on top of after everything is said and done, she says no despite everything she did earlier without as much as a second thought, greatly pisses me off to no end. No wonder the Gorilla was so relieved to see Adrien that all his negative feelings evaporated, he was glad to see Adrien safe and close. She still takes her selfish desires into account without considering the risks that could happen to the other people in the situation (except for the baby, hich is her saving grace, and maybe just giving up in the end a bit was also great), but then in the end she says no, only to berates herself meaning she didn't mean to say no, but her being too impulsive cost her her chance, which I call karma, but still. The nerve at the end. 

      They must have both thought it, after all Marinette was quite sure of it, Alya couldn't have done it without her knowing all about Adrien's schedule and habits. The fact that she went with it without much reserve, she was more concerned about telling the girls about it then worrying if Adrien knew. Which brings next irony all the way, with Rose saying guys don't notice this stuff at all, but Mylène was oblivious to Ivan's feelings in Origins, and Marinette fails to see Nino having a crush on her, Nathanaël is so much quiet and reserved it's impossible anybody could figure him out however until he dropped his sketchbook. 

      She knows he yo-yo is indestructable, so if she's strong enough to hold it together, she should be able to put 2 and 2 and figure that the tower will break instead of her yo-yo. I wonder if she'll let Chat Noir lead another time, the only time she did was in Stormy Weather since he had night vision and she had no choice after not listening to him.

      Huh. Guess we'll see soon.

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    • Astruc said there's no filler episodes this season, meaning this one isn't filler. Time to play "spot the plot"!

      One thing i've noticed is how Hawkmoth is begining to lose control over his victims slowly.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      I also don't have much patience for how long people keeps fooling aroud such important matters like a crush. When I had a crush on my best friend's older brother, I kind of friendzoned him, because I wasn't sure if he liked me too, and when I asked his mom and she said he was intersted in me, I didn't wait, I asked him out then we dated for almost 2 years before he broke up with me, there was no drama and we're both over it and his sister is still my best friend, well since I've known her for over 10 years before actually getting interested in her brother, and we still have an awesome friendship till death tear us apart and all that (still talking about my best friend, not my ex), still I didn't wait until it was too late, we tried, it didn't work but we're still on good terms. End of story. Unless you take matters into your own hand, you'll never know what you might be missing, and Marinette is clearly just wasting time, and maybe some other stories that could be better than her crush on Adrien, being shown on the show. No patience at all for people who just drag on and on. You can say that Adrien as Chat Noir does that, but he is far too gentlemantly and respectful to actually keep pressuring Ladybug to date all the time since he knows she gets uncomfortable with it, hence why he just flirts, because he respects her boundaries. Marinette stalks him, knows every single little details and just use her powers to keep her rivals (sans Kagami, at least for now anyway until we see her again) at bay, when there is a freaking akuma right there causing havroc (hello Bubbler), despite the fact that she just knew him for a short time, and just gives in to her selfish desires regardless of other people's feelings. Chat Noir didn't threaten Théo with his Cataclysm, but the guy was also getting way too ahead of himself there. Teenage girls all have romance in their hadn at some point to some degree, since it's Marinette, who is nice to everyone and helps everyone, sans Chloé, they feel like they can help her in return, although Alix does bring some good points, and Mylène also seems to think that the whole plan is just too much, judging by her question of why she simply can't ask him without going through all the trouble, I'm pretty sure they could have gotten in trouble for bringing a fake sign just to have someone to get together with her crush. But the facts are more jarring then that: she was morally questionnable with her plan during the entire episode except the part where she helps the mother, having a fake sign, making the Gorilla risk his job and scaring the crap out of him, I say that because if you take into account Adrien's status and life, rich model kid with little world experience who has many fans and has a pretty face that would make him a good price to get kidnapped for a good ransom or just being sold to slavery, akumas attacks can happen anytime anywhere, in Stormy Weather it happened during the shoot, so I understand why the Gorilla is so protective of Adrien and gets angry if he doesn't have him where he should be, because it's not just about him being fired, it's about his charge being in a dangerous environment or situation and him not being able to be there to prevent anything because he isn't supposed to be ther because of some girls finding it a great idea to mess with him so one of them can get a date gets on my nerves like nothing else, on top of after everything is said and done, she says no despite everything she did earlier without as much as a second thought, greatly pisses me off to no end. No wonder the Gorilla was so relieved to see Adrien that all his negative feelings evaporated, he was glad to see Adrien safe and close. She still takes her selfish desires into account without considering the risks that could happen to the other people in the situation (except for the baby, hich is her saving grace, and maybe just giving up in the end a bit was also great), but then in the end she says no, only to berates herself meaning she didn't mean to say no, but her being too impulsive cost her her chance, which I call karma, but still. The nerve at the end. 

      They must have both thought it, after all Marinette was quite sure of it, Alya couldn't have done it without her knowing all about Adrien's schedule and habits. The fact that she went with it without much reserve, she was more concerned about telling the girls about it then worrying if Adrien knew. Which brings next irony all the way, with Rose saying guys don't notice this stuff at all, but Mylène was oblivious to Ivan's feelings in Origins, and Marinette fails to see Nino having a crush on her, Nathanaël is so much quiet and reserved it's impossible anybody could figure him out however until he dropped his sketchbook. 

      She knows he yo-yo is indestructable, so if she's strong enough to hold it together, she should be able to put 2 and 2 and figure that the tower will break instead of her yo-yo. I wonder if she'll let Chat Noir lead another time, the only time she did was in Stormy Weather since he had night vision and she had no choice after not listening to him.

      Huh. Guess we'll see soon.

      But Marinette isn't you and we already established she doesn't think like you. She thinks more like I do, and, this is something I can relate to Marinette on. I'm scared of taking initiatives because I'm scared of getting hurt. Not doing so was once the greatest regret of my life, and it was concerning a boy. I still kind of feel regret even though I finally got over the guy. We were friends, really good friends, and because I panicked when I finally really had a chance with him, we both got hurt, he pushed me away because I didn't take the initiative when I had the chance, and we never speak anymore. But I didn't because he kept telling me he didn't have feelings for me like I had for him. He kept saying I was just a friend. I was terrified that taking the initiative would ruin our friendship forever, and I treasured our time together because I truly was in love with him. When I did take initiatives with him at times, we'd get in fights. So again, I get Marinette. And again, with the looks on his face and the tone of his voice, I wouldn't want to bother him with him taking me home, either. Adrien is making himself hard to read. One episode, he's acting like he wants to kiss her, in this one, he acts like he'd rather be with anyone else than her. I think maybe her friends could have been with her and Adrien wouldn't've acted the way he did, but I think he thought (correctly) Marinette was there for him. Come to think, when she showed him her sketchbook, was she telling him she was there to work on sketches? They were at her "secret garden of inspiration" after all, right?

      You don't need to be her number one hater- plenty of people hate Marinette and are less reasonable than you are. I don't even have a problem with how you dislike her, you're entitled to your opinion as I am mine- my problem lies in how you go about expressing it and how you're unfair about it. She makes mistakes and I don't think she's especially handled well even though I can relate to her on a few things, but you're so quick to blame her for everything when there's very little indication Marinette is to blame. As far as we know, all she did was go along with the plan and contribute a little information to it. But you're insisting it's her fault, wholly her fault, if something happened to Adrien, because of a plan Marinette didn't think all the way through, even if it wasn't necesarily hers. You're blaming Marinette for not raising the idea the Gorilla might get in trouble. Alix, Rose, Juleka, Mylene, or Alya could have said something, but you're choosing instead to blame Marinette, like the responsibility was hers and hers alone to realise the plan was pretty flawed (despite the fact that, even as Ladybug, she does not always think plans through very well and consider things may go wrong). I get you want people to know she's a flawed girl, but maybe dial it back a little and stop insisting everything that goes wrong is her fault. You even blamed her for the baby getting akumatised and the Gorilla nearly getting akumatised. You didn't mention how it was technically all of the girls's faults. Just Marinette. Instead of thinking her friends are disappointed for her, not with her, you assume they're upset she "wasted their time". They know Marinette can be shy, they know she panics easily, they know she often says what she doesn't mean. They're her friends, they know her and how she gets, they won't be too angry with her. They're understanding of her. Alya wishes she'd take initiatives, too, but more in a lamenting way than getting angry.

      The only information Alya needed was when the photoshoot was to come up with the plan.

      I don't think she thought either would break, actually. I think she thought her yo-yo would unwind before anything broke, since while it's unbreakable, it doesn't always stay wrapped around stuff. She also might not have thought Gigantitan was strong enough to cut through the Tower like that. As mentioned, Marinette isn't the greatest at thinking of plans. She gets good plans sometimes, but it's usually a trial-and-error thing, and she is quick to jump to things, a problem that seems to only be getting worse with her. I still think being a superheroine, being the popular one, being the leader (which I feel she both chooses to be and feels she has to be since she's the one with the power to purify akumas and Cat Noir is more likely to be taken over by the villains than she is), is stressing her out and making her feel she has to do things a certain way, hence her initial plans.

      I think it'd be nice if she's forced to follow his lead because she needs his feline senses, and it's Cat Noir who figures out how to use the Lucky Charm, or at least who gives her the idea, or she admits she needs Cat Noir to take the lead for once because it's not an akuma she knows how to deal with or who she acceps he's better equipped to handle. I miss episodes like "Animan" where they worked together, where she wasn't the defacto leader, but they were partners, not a team.

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:

      Astruc said there's no filler episodes this season, meaning this one isn't filler. Time to play "spot the plot"!

      One thing i've noticed is how Hawkmoth is begining to lose control over his victims slowly.

      He is, that's true. Or rather, he's getting more reckless with his choices of victims. He's getting desperate and not thinking clearly.

      I certainly hope he becomes more competent soon, I hate to think revealing his identity means he's going to be less threatening.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Avatar thoyrn wrote:

      Astruc said there's no filler episodes this season, meaning this one isn't filler. Time to play "spot the plot"!

      One thing i've noticed is how Hawkmoth is begining to lose control over his victims slowly.
      He is, that's true. Or rather, he's getting more reckless with his choices of victims. He's getting desperate and not thinking clearly.

      I certainly hope he becomes more competent soon, I hate to think revealing his identity means he's going to be less threatening.

      I think of it as HM not being as in control of the Miraculous's power as he thinks he is.

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    • Maetch wrote:

      I think of it as HM not being as in control of the Miraculous's power as he thinks he is.

      I think it's a bit of both. I don't think the Miraculous is meant for total control of another, but I also think the power of the Miraculous isn't working right for him the more he uses it for evil, and I don't think his getting desperate and reckless is particularly helping him.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      But Marinette isn't you and we already established she doesn't think like you. She thinks more like I do, and, this is something I can relate to Marinette on. I'm scared of taking initiatives because I'm scared of getting hurt. Not doing so was once the greatest regret of my life, and it was concerning a boy. I still kind of feel regret even though I finally got over the guy. We were friends, really good friends, and because I panicked when I finally really had a chance with him, we both got hurt, he pushed me away because I didn't take the initiative when I had the chance, and we never speak anymore. But I didn't because he kept telling me he didn't have feelings for me like I had for him. He kept saying I was just a friend. I was terrified that taking the initiative would ruin our friendship forever, and I treasured our time together because I truly was in love with him. When I did take initiatives with him at times, we'd get in fights. So again, I get Marinette. And again, with the looks on his face and the tone of his voice, I wouldn't want to bother him with him taking me home, either. Adrien is making himself hard to read. One episode, he's acting like he wants to kiss her, in this one, he acts like he'd rather be with anyone else than her. I think maybe her friends could have been with her and Adrien wouldn't've acted the way he did, but I think he thought (correctly) Marinette was there for him. Come to think, when she showed him her sketchbook, was she telling him she was there to work on sketches? They were at her "secret garden of inspiration" after all, right?

      You don't need to be her number one hater- plenty of people hate Marinette and are less reasonable than you are. I don't even have a problem with how you dislike her, you're entitled to your opinion as I am mine- my problem lies in how you go about expressing it and how you're unfair about it. She makes mistakes and I don't think she's especially handled well even though I can relate to her on a few things, but you're so quick to blame her for everything when there's very little indication Marinette is to blame. As far as we know, all she did was go along with the plan and contribute a little information to it. But you're insisting it's her fault, wholly her fault, if something happened to Adrien, because of a plan Marinette didn't think all the way through, even if it wasn't necesarily hers. You're blaming Marinette for not raising the idea the Gorilla might get in trouble. Alix, Rose, Juleka, Mylene, or Alya could have said something, but you're choosing instead to blame Marinette, like the responsibility was hers and hers alone to realise the plan was pretty flawed (despite the fact that, even as Ladybug, she does not always think plans through very well and consider things may go wrong). I get you want people to know she's a flawed girl, but maybe dial it back a little and stop insisting everything that goes wrong is her fault. You even blamed her for the baby getting akumatised and the Gorilla nearly getting akumatised. You didn't mention how it was technically all of the girls's faults. Just Marinette. Instead of thinking her friends are disappointed for her, not with her, you assume they're upset she "wasted their time". They know Marinette can be shy, they know she panics easily, they know she often says what she doesn't mean. They're her friends, they know her and how she gets, they won't be too angry with her. They're understanding of her. Alya wishes she'd take initiatives, too, but more in a lamenting way than getting angry.

      The only information Alya needed was when the photoshoot was to come up with the plan.

      I don't think she thought either would break, actually. I think she thought her yo-yo would unwind before anything broke, since while it's unbreakable, it doesn't always stay wrapped around stuff. She also might not have thought Gigantitan was strong enough to cut through the Tower like that. As mentioned, Marinette isn't the greatest at thinking of plans. She gets good plans sometimes, but it's usually a trial-and-error thing, and she is quick to jump to things, a problem that seems to only be getting worse with her. I still think being a superheroine, being the popular one, being the leader (which I feel she both chooses to be and feels she has to be since she's the one with the power to purify akumas and Cat Noir is more likely to be taken over by the villains than she is), is stressing her out and making her feel she has to do things a certain way, hence her initial plans.

      I think it'd be nice if she's forced to follow his lead because she needs his feline senses, and it's Cat Noir who figures out how to use the Lucky Charm, or at least who gives her the idea, or she admits she needs Cat Noir to take the lead for once because it's not an akuma she knows how to deal with or who she acceps he's better equipped to handle. I miss episodes like "Animan" where they worked together, where she wasn't the defacto leader, but they were partners, not a team.

      Oh don't worry, the rest of them weren't any better, except Alix who I think went with it because judging from her sentence: "so I guess Goldilocks left the garden", means that she thoughts from the beginning that the plan wouldn't work, her expression at the end sells it as her not being impressed at all. I'm sorry for you, if a guy said he wasn't interested in me the same way I would be to him I would let him go. Mabe you could have waited until he started developping feelings for you? But if a guy says he's not interested, I wouldn't push it, because if it was the opposite I wouldn't want to be pushed into a relationship either. Sometimes the best way to get someones feelings is by putting yourself in their position. Would you like that a guy takes the initiative with you even thought you told him you weren't interested and just saw him as a friend? I don't think so. But it's some advice I can give you, if it helps you. And yeah, I guess Adrien feels he's starting to see her everywhere, heck he's starting to see her more than Nino, and sometimes it seems so random, but here I think he saw through her lies,and the akuma must have put him behind his schedule.

      She couldn't have known it would work that way if Marinette didn't told her he left his phone in the car. and it does sound like something Marinette could think of, she likes it complicated: codenames, a rickshaw, false sign, many people involved, all timely and all that. I don't think even Alya is that complicated, she normally just push her to Adrien.

      I suppose so, she needs to let go of all the complicated stuff.

      I wish that too. I wonder how much Chat will put up with her before he tells her off.

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    • I was wondering... has anyone noticed how the toddler called Papillon?

      Papaillon

      Basically the "Hawkdaddy" that we read in every fanfiction in this fandom!

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Oh don't worry, the rest of them weren't any better, except Alix who I think went with it because judging from her sentence: "so I guess Goldilocks left the garden", means that she thoughts from the beginning that the plan wouldn't work, her expression at the end sells it as her not being impressed at all. I'm sorry for you, if a guy said he wasn't interested in me the same way I would be to him I would let him go. Mabe you could have waited until he started developping feelings for you? But if a guy says he's not interested, I wouldn't push it, because if it was the opposite I wouldn't want to be pushed into a relationship either. Sometimes the best way to get someones feelings is by putting yourself in their position. Would you like that a guy takes the initiative with you even thought you told him you weren't interested and just saw him as a friend? I don't think so. But it's some advice I can give you, if it helps you. And yeah, I guess Adrien feels he's starting to see her everywhere, heck he's starting to see her more than Nino, and sometimes it seems so random, but here I think he saw through her lies,and the akuma must have put him behind his schedule.

      She couldn't have known it would work that way if Marinette didn't told her he left his phone in the car. and it does sound like something Marinette could think of, she likes it complicated: codenames, a rickshaw, false sign, many people involved, all timely and all that. I don't think even Alya is that complicated, she normally just push her to Adrien.

      I suppose so, she needs to let go of all the complicated stuff.

      I wish that too. I wonder how much Chat will put up with her before he tells her off.

      His actions said differently from his words. He wasn't the type of guy to admit things aloud, especially attraction. He was the one who closed the spaces between us, he was the one who kissed my forehead, he was the one who pulled me into abrupt hugs. Things that were well out of his normal personality. He was the one who left an inch's distance away from kissing me, leaving me to close it. I didn't because I got startled by a door upstairs and that was the end of things. You can surely forgive me for thinking he was lying about not having feelings for me.

      No. Alya is the genre savvy one and Marinette does not, again, want people to know she likes Adrien and is mortified to find Nino knows. So I don't think she'd want to involve too many people. Most of her wild plans involve her and only her. It was Alya who came up with the plan for the zoo date, not Marinette. Some aspects of it do suit Marinette's style of thinking, but code names? Many people involed? Not her style in the slightest. Most of her fantasies involve only her and Adrien. She also doesn't seem the type to think to move a sign, but rather just approach Adrien as he's leaving, pretending she's just leaving as well. Marinette's plan in "Stormy Weather" was to ask Adrien on a date, which would then lead to them having three children and some pets. But the actual plan to get there was really simple. She's not exactly Oliver Wood with a Quidditch diagram. She's more... Romilda Vane. Simple and to the point. You personally will find the Romilda comparison very apt, considering how she's written.

      Marinette's plans are never complex, and that's usually why they go wrong. She doesn't think them through very well and doesn't take input from others. Marinette is usually pretty simple. It's how she gets snowballing down paths of horror. Her plan to capture Gigantitan was lure the baby under the Tower and trap it with her yo-yo. That's ridiculously simple. The flaw with her plans are they're simple and not thought out.

      He seems to like being her second-in-command, so he might not. He's never shown a sign of resentment.

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    • Virgola4869 wrote:
      I was wondering... has anyone noticed how the toddler called Papillon?

      Papaillon

      Basically the "Hawkdaddy" that we read in every fanfiction in this fandom!


      He said "paillon". Then hawk moth said "No, not Paillon!" and in french, "non, pas Paillon!" . you misheard.

      oh, and i love the moment when :"you will give me the miraculous." and then August: "Candy?"

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    • I love how all the girls knew that Mari liked Adrien and how they knew her very well, that was hilarious.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      His actions said differently from his words. He wasn't the type of guy to admit things aloud, especially attraction. He was the one who closed the spaces between us, he was the one who kissed my forehead, he was the one who pulled me into abrupt hugs. Things that were well out of his normal personality. He was the one who left an inch's distance away from kissing me, leaving me to close it. I didn't because I got startled by a door upstairs and that was the end of things. You can surely forgive me for thinking he was lying about not having feelings for me.

      No. Alya is the genre savvy one and Marinette does not, again, want people to know she likes Adrien and is mortified to find Nino knows. So I don't think she'd want to involve too many people. Most of her wild plans involve her and only her. It was Alya who came up with the plan for the zoo date, not Marinette. Some aspects of it do suit Marinette's style of thinking, but code names? Many people involed? Not her style in the slightest. Most of her fantasies involve only her and Adrien. She also doesn't seem the type to think to move a sign, but rather just approach Adrien as he's leaving, pretending she's just leaving as well. Marinette's plan in "Stormy Weather" was to ask Adrien on a date, which would then lead to them having three children and some pets. But the actual plan to get there was really simple. She's not exactly Oliver Wood with a Quidditch diagram. She's more... Romilda Vane. Simple and to the point. You personally will find the Romilda comparison very apt, considering how she's written.

      Marinette's plans are never complex, and that's usually why they go wrong. She doesn't think them through very well and doesn't take input from others. Marinette is usually pretty simple. It's how she gets snowballing down paths of horror. Her plan to capture Gigantitan was lure the baby under the Tower and trap it with her yo-yo. That's ridiculously simple. The flaw with her plans are they're simple and not thought out.

      He seems to like being her second-in-command, so he might not. He's never shown a sign of resentment.

      Oh is that so? Well then, he also got his part of the blame too. I think you could have gotten around it by asking him if he really wanted to just stay as friends or just wanted to be in a relationship with you, straight to the point, to make him admit either his feelings or just his friendship, you could also have asked him that if he didn't want to be in a relationship with you, then why would he do all of those littles things he did that you said? You could have told him to stop fooling around and admit, or to stop those and tell him it was more like he was treating you as your girlfriend and was pratically giving you false hope by acting like that, putting you in an akward positions thanks to his behavior toward you. Remember, communication is key in a relatonship, weither it's platonic, romantic or just as friends. Honesty too. So seems like both of you got some little hickups with that. You shouldn't be afraid of opening up to people close to you because you think it might drive them away, because it's actually what happens when you don't trust anyone and push people away by not telling, That's how many problems are created, along mental and physical issues, it eats you from the inside, stress you and in the end you're not any better than before. Happens in real life and in fiction all the time. And even sometimes it goes even worse, but I'm not gonna bring something this dark in this discussion, some kids might read that, and then might questions their parents about it, but I think you get where I was going there, don't you? And I totally forget you for getting confused by mixed signals, everyone always is. Anyway I hope you'll have an easier time next time, unless you already have a boyfriend, or a girlfriend? I don't mind either, I'm a fan of yaoi and yuri. ;)

      Alya's plan in Animan wasn't complicated, it's quite an easy tactic that we see a lot in other media, heck even Adrien thought the same thing, and it was easy since she only had to tell Marinette what to say in her ear, nothing much complicated there. Well, I suppose that since Marinette's simple plans usually fails, maybe she thought she could have upped her game a little? And Nino is a boy, and her crush's best friend, not the same thing as the rest of the girls in their class, they're not boys, and they aren't best friend with her crush. They don't have the same connection to Adrien as Nino does, plus they are girls, so maybe they get her feelings better. And even thought she doesn't want to admit her crush to anyone except Alya, she's so transparent it's easy to tell, and her reaction when she finds out completely sells her out. She's the worst liar of the show. And by that, I mean that she can't lie with a straight face. Adrien has a little easier time since Nino believed him in Simon Says when he said it was the model in him. That one still makes me laugh a lot. Who's Romilda Vane?

      She sure doesn't do simple in fashion, her hat in Mr. Pigeon was not something easy, especially since it was her first time doing this kind of hat, her name stitched upside down and the design overall was a bit more thought off and a bit more complicated than what she usually does. 

      I stil thinks she really is mean and harsh to him sometimes, and sometimes instead of praising him, she seems to minimize his importance, his opinions and him being right, telling him not bad for a cat or just telling him that it's and excuse to not go with her idea, like in Prime Queen when he said that trying to go after the train their usual way with her yo-yo and his baton to catch a speeding train in the hundred of lines in Paris was impossible adn she just said instead of agreeing she just said he says that because he likes being in the spotlight, I find that annoying. Or in Reflekta, when he said he just saved her and she just laugh at him , and seems annoyed that he's right and he might have a good idea. He might get fed up eventually, he got tired of Chloé's behavior, so who says he might not get tired of Ladybug's attitude either? He calls her on when she's being unfair or mean.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Oh is that so? Well then, he also got his part of the blame too. I think you could have gotten around it by asking him if he really wanted to just stay as friends or just wanted to be in a relationship with you, straight to the point, to make him admit either his feelings or just his friendship, you could also have asked him that if he didn't want to be in a relationship with you, then why would he do all of those littles things he did that you said? You could have told him to stop fooling around and admit, or to stop those and tell him it was more like he was treating you as your girlfriend and was pratically giving you false hope by acting like that, putting you in an akward positions thanks to his behavior toward you. Remember, communication is key in a relatonship, weither it's platonic, romantic or just as friends. Honesty too. So seems like both of you got some little hickups with that. You shouldn't be afraid of opening up to people close to you because you think it might drive them away, because it's actually what happens when you don't trust anyone and push people away by not telling, That's how many problems are created, along mental and physical issues, it eats you from the inside, stress you and in the end you're not any better than before. Happens in real life and in fiction all the time. And even sometimes it goes even worse, but I'm not gonna bring something this dark in this discussion, some kids might read that, and then might questions their parents about it, but I think you get where I was going there, don't you? And I totally forget you for getting confused by mixed signals, everyone always is. Anyway I hope you'll have an easier time next time, unless you already have a boyfriend, or a girlfriend? I don't mind either, I'm a fan of yaoi and yuri. ;)

      Alya's plan in Animan wasn't complicated, it's quite an easy tactic that we see a lot in other media, heck even Adrien thought the same thing, and it was easy since she only had to tell Marinette what to say in her ear, nothing much complicated there. Well, I suppose that since Marinette's simple plans usually fails, maybe she thought she could have upped her game a little? And Nino is a boy, and her crush's best friend, not the same thing as the rest of the girls in their class, they're not boys, and they aren't best friend with her crush. They don't have the same connection to Adrien as Nino does, plus they are girls, so maybe they get her feelings better. And even thought she doesn't want to admit her crush to anyone except Alya, she's so transparent it's easy to tell, and her reaction when she finds out completely sells her out. She's the worst liar of the show. And by that, I mean that she can't lie with a straight face. Adrien has a little easier time since Nino believed him in Simon Says when he said it was the model in him. That one still makes me laugh a lot. Who's Romilda Vane?

      She sure doesn't do simple in fashion, her hat in Mr. Pigeon was not something easy, especially since it was her first time doing this kind of hat, her name stitched upside down and the design overall was a bit more thought off and a bit more complicated than what she usually does. 

      I stil thinks she really is mean and harsh to him sometimes, and sometimes instead of praising him, she seems to minimize his importance, his opinions and him being right, telling him not bad for a cat or just telling him that it's and excuse to not go with her idea, like in Prime Queen when he said that trying to go after the train their usual way with her yo-yo and his baton to catch a speeding train in the hundred of lines in Paris was impossible adn she just said instead of agreeing she just said he says that because he likes being in the spotlight, I find that annoying. Or in Reflekta, when he said he just saved her and she just laugh at him , and seems annoyed that he's right and he might have a good idea. He might get fed up eventually, he got tired of Chloé's behavior, so who says he might not get tired of Ladybug's attitude either? He calls her on when she's being unfair or mean.

      Ha, no, I am abhorrent, it seems. Can't get anyone interested in me.

      Romilda is a character from the 6th book, she tries to drug Harry Potter with a love potion and generally suits how you think Marinette is with Adrien. Creepy, obsessive, mean, selfish... I asked someone about what was being said and Marinette asks Alya if she thinks the plan is acftually going to work. So that means it's Alya's plan, and Marinette was blushing through the entire thing.

      Yeah, but that's not a plan like we were talking about.

      She is cold to him, and I think he knows her "not bad for a cat" lines are just play, not serious.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Ha, no, I am abhorrent, it seems. Can't get anyone interested in me.

      Romilda is a character from the 6th book, she tries to drug Harry Potter with a love potion and generally suits how you think Marinette is with Adrien. Creepy, obsessive, mean, selfish... I asked someone about what was being said and Marinette asks Alya if she thinks the plan is acftually going to work. So that means it's Alya's plan, and Marinette was blushing through the entire thing.

      Yeah, but that's not a plan like we were talking about.

      She is cold to him, and I think he knows her "not bad for a cat" lines are just play, not serious.

      Don't sell yourself so short, if it's not for your looks, then maybe you'll get someone who is interested by your personnality, it can shadows all the flaws.

      Oh, yeah, her. I remember her now, she got Ron instead of Harry right? Cause Harry gave the chocolates to Ron. Still Marinette went along with it, and the rest of the girls, and their actions earned them a spot in TV Tropes Miraculous Ladybug YMMV page under the section "Uninthentionally Unsympathetic" because of this plan. Seriously, it was put last night. On a happy note though, Kagami is under "Ensemble Darkhorse", meaning she's popular now, after one episode, then again there is quite a bit of fanart, I saw a couple of fics with her and Adrien on AO3, and I saw in another one that the author gave her a swan miraculous. Not to mention some expressed (like me) the desire to see her having a miraculous or getting the peacock. Go see it. And no, I didn't do any of those fics, fanart or added those things on TV Tropes, I don't write fics, I can't draw good and I'm not a member of TV Tropes, just a visitor.

      It does take planning and preparation to do a hat like that, like Marinette explained when she showed it to Gabriel.

      It still is unfair that she hardly praise him without a remark or a fun line, it seems she can't be serious about it when she compliments him. Kind of really makes me cringe. After all he said and done, she could be a little sweeter with him.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Don't sell yourself so short, if it's not for your looks, then maybe you'll get someone who is interested by your personnality, it can shadows all the flaws.

      Oh, yeah, her. I remember her now, she got Ron instead of Harry right? Cause Harry gave the chocolates to Ron. Still Marinette went along with it, and the rest of the girls, and their actions earned them a spot in TV Tropes Miraculous Ladybug YMMV page under the section "Uninthentionally Unsympathetic" because of this plan. Seriously, it was put last night. On a happy note though, Kagami is under "Ensemble Darkhorse", meaning she's popular now, after one episode, then again there is quite a bit of fanart, I saw a couple of fics with her and Adrien on AO3, and I saw in another one that the author gave her a swan miraculous. Not to mention some expressed (like me) the desire to see her having a miraculous or getting the peacock. Go see it. And no, I didn't do any of those fics, fanart or added those things on TV Tropes, I don't write fics, I can't draw good and I'm not a member of TV Tropes, just a visitor.

      It does take planning and preparation to do a hat like that, like Marinette explained when she showed it to Gabriel.

      It still is unfair that she hardly praise him without a remark or a fun line, it seems she can't be serious about it when she compliments him. Kind of really makes me cringe. After all he said and done, she could be a little sweeter with him.

      I'm not bad-looking, just... unlikable.

      Yeah, that's her. And of course- I've told you a billion times, you're not the only person who hates Marinette, you're not the only person who adores Kagami, you're not the only person who does not want Marinette to end up with Adrien and would prefer Adrien and Kagami (or Chloe. Or anyone who isn't Marinette), you're not the only person who wants Kagami to be special. I keep telling you you can dial back on hating Marinette, like you have to compensate for the entire fandom's adoration of her. You really aren't the only one who hates her.

      But that isn't the kind of plans we were talking about. Crafting is different than coming up with romance plans.

      She could be, but she doesn't want to get close. She does praise him in "Riposte", albeit to Adrien, which was sweet because of how tough she usually is on him. She apparently doesn't say it in French, though, so it doesn't count. Her being harsh on him makes her moments of genuine praise very nice. I can't vouch for the French dub, but she does flat-out say nice things to him in English. "Good job, kitty" and "Nice work, Cat Noir!". I think she has her reasons for being strict with Cat Noir, but I'm not sure what they are.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Don't sell yourself so short, if it's not for your looks, then maybe you'll get someone who is interested by your personnality, it can shadows all the flaws.

      Oh, yeah, her. I remember her now, she got Ron instead of Harry right? Cause Harry gave the chocolates to Ron. Still Marinette went along with it, and the rest of the girls, and their actions earned them a spot in TV Tropes Miraculous Ladybug YMMV page under the section "Uninthentionally Unsympathetic" because of this plan. Seriously, it was put last night. On a happy note though, Kagami is under "Ensemble Darkhorse", meaning she's popular now, after one episode, then again there is quite a bit of fanart, I saw a couple of fics with her and Adrien on AO3, and I saw in another one that the author gave her a swan miraculous. Not to mention some expressed (like me) the desire to see her having a miraculous or getting the peacock. Go see it. And no, I didn't do any of those fics, fanart or added those things on TV Tropes, I don't write fics, I can't draw good and I'm not a member of TV Tropes, just a visitor.

      It does take planning and preparation to do a hat like that, like Marinette explained when she showed it to Gabriel.

      It still is unfair that she hardly praise him without a remark or a fun line, it seems she can't be serious about it when she compliments him. Kind of really makes me cringe. After all he said and done, she could be a little sweeter with him.

      I'm not bad-looking, just... unlikable.

      Yeah, that's her. And of course- I've told you a billion times, you're not the only person who hates Marinette, you're not the only person who adores Kagami, you're not the only person who does not want Marinette to end up with Adrien and would prefer Adrien and Kagami (or Chloe. Or anyone who isn't Marinette), you're not the only person who wants Kagami to be special. I keep telling you you can dial back on hating Marinette, like you have to compensate for the entire fandom's adoration of her. You really aren't the only one who hates her.

      But that isn't the kind of plans we were talking about. Crafting is different than coming up with romance plans.

      She could be, but she doesn't want to get close. She does praise him in "Riposte", albeit to Adrien, which was sweet because of how tough she usually is on him. She apparently doesn't say it in French, though, so it doesn't count. Her being harsh on him makes her moments of genuine praise very nice. I can't vouch for the French dub, but she does flat-out say nice things to him in English. "Good job, kitty" and "Nice work, Cat Noir!". I think she has her reasons for being strict with Cat Noir, but I'm not sure what they are.

      Probably because he never take his job seriously, I mean come on he's a superhero and he gets distracted easily like in Lady Wifi when she totally battered Cat Noir and Ladybug had to come in and everything.

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    • DespairBears wrote:

      Probably because he never take his job seriously, I mean come on he's a superhero and he gets distracted easily like in Lady Wifi when she totally battered Cat Noir and Ladybug had to come in and everything.

      Adrien just chooses to have fun with being a superhero, rather than treat it like a proper job. Ladybug thinks he's not serious, but he's very dedicated to his position. He gets serious sometimes, but part of Cat Noir's separation of him and Adrien is pretending he doesn't know most of the people he saves. So he is often cheerful and flippant because he pretends to not know anyone they're working with.

      She wants him to act as serious as she does, true, but Cat Noir does get serious when he needs to be. Him not being serious helps with him being distracting to the akuma, since none of them are gonna question his behaviour.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I'm not bad-looking, just... unlikable.

      Yeah, that's her. And of course- I've told you a billion times, you're not the only person who hates Marinette, you're not the only person who adores Kagami, you're not the only person who does not want Marinette to end up with Adrien and would prefer Adrien and Kagami (or Chloe. Or anyone who isn't Marinette), you're not the only person who wants Kagami to be special. I keep telling you you can dial back on hating Marinette, like you have to compensate for the entire fandom's adoration of her. You really aren't the only one who hates her.

      But that isn't the kind of plans we were talking about. Crafting is different than coming up with romance plans.

      She could be, but she doesn't want to get close. She does praise him in "Riposte", albeit to Adrien, which was sweet because of how tough she usually is on him. She apparently doesn't say it in French, though, so it doesn't count. Her being harsh on him makes her moments of genuine praise very nice. I can't vouch for the French dub, but she does flat-out say nice things to him in English. "Good job, kitty" and "Nice work, Cat Noir!". I think she has her reasons for being strict with Cat Noir, but I'm not sure what they are.

      You see yourself as a jerk? Do you seriously think you're one? Everyone has flaws, but if you only see those and not the good parts of you, maybe ask your friend or your family their honest opinion? I think you're nice, honest, straight to the point, stubborn and dedicated to what you like. You don't mince your words and I'm pretty sure you refrain from being a lot more harsher and meaner than what you could write, but your holding back to not hurt people too much, and I appreciate that. I could tell from our conversations.

      I know, but I don't feel like I'm taking on the entire Marinette fanclub on my own, you know? I know there are others who share my opinions, but I won't stop telling what I think about what happens on the show in a direct way that no matter how you can point how it seems harsh, you can't just pretend it isn't wrong and not make a big deal about it. I mostly say those things partly because that's what I think, partly because I can't believe it's supposed to be for small kids to see those things. They learn a lot from watching these things, and so far they won't learn the best things with Marinette getting away with almost everything she does wrong in the show, even if she's sorry about it and the others forgive her. You keep telling me to stop comparing it to real life, but it's real life kids who watch this. How wil they learn that some barriers can,t be crossed if they see that they could get away with it with a slap on the wrist and an apology like Marinette? With how kids are today, they should be more careful about what they show them.But reading those things on TV Tropes makes me happy to see that my opinions are quite shared, coming from a big website like that.

      You still got to have plans and ideas when you're in the fashion industrie, the make up, hairstyle and clothes must all go together, how you should use the tissues and all that. It's almost as much as planning and details as rocket science. And even if it's not the smae plans we're talking about, you can't say that fashion isn't difficult.

      She doesn't need to praise him seriously be closer to him, just compliemtn him on a job well done, he still saves lives and hers pratically every episodes, and she does snarks a lot at the villains too, plus her flirting back with him isn't her being serious in those moments either. And he's the reason why she decided to keep being Ladybug, so he actually deserves much more credits than she gives him. He pratically supported her the entire time she wasn't sure of herself, and now she seems to forget all about how he was nice and helpful toward her, not to mention that if she can save the day at the end, it's almost half the time because he took the hits for her, in Timebreaker she and everyone else would have died if not for him, or in Puppeteer she would have had her earrings taken away, or the Pharaoh she wouldn't have gotten in time to save Alya unless he busted her out of that slow bubble, or in Reflekta when he prevented her from getting defeated by Reflekta twice without having access to his powers or normal body. So I think she could give him a break sometimes, she created some of the akumas for her extremely selfish reasons, or her just thinking herself above everyone else's feelings and opinions, so she can cut it for him and his antics. His flirting is her karma for stalking Adrien.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      You see yourself as a jerk? Do you seriously think you're one? Everyone has flaws, but if you only see those and not the good parts of you, maybe ask your friend or your family their honest opinion? I think you're nice, honest, straight to the point, stubborn and dedicated to what you like. You don't mince your words and I'm pretty sure you refrain from being a lot more harsher and meaner than what you could write, but your holding back to not hurt people too much, and I appreciate that. I could tell from our conversations.

      I know, but I don't feel like I'm taking on the entire Marinette fanclub on my own, you know? I know there are others who share my opinions, but I won't stop telling what I think about what happens on the show in a direct way that no matter how you can point how it seems harsh, you can't just pretend it isn't wrong and not make a big deal about it. I mostly say those things partly because that's what I think, partly because I can't believe it's supposed to be for small kids to see those things. They learn a lot from watching these things, and so far they won't learn the best things with Marinette getting away with almost everything she does wrong in the show, even if she's sorry about it and the others forgive her. You keep telling me to stop comparing it to real life, but it's real life kids who watch this. How wil they learn that some barriers can,t be crossed if they see that they could get away with it with a slap on the wrist and an apology like Marinette? With how kids are today, they should be more careful about what they show them.But reading those things on TV Tropes makes me happy to see that my opinions are quite shared, coming from a big website like that.

      You still got to have plans and ideas when you're in the fashion industrie, the make up, hairstyle and clothes must all go together, how you should use the tissues and all that. It's almost as much as planning and details as rocket science. And even if it's not the smae plans we're talking about, you can't say that fashion isn't difficult.

      She doesn't need to praise him seriously be closer to him, just compliemtn him on a job well done, he still saves lives and hers pratically every episodes, and she does snarks a lot at the villains too, plus her flirting back with him isn't her being serious in those moments either. And he's the reason why she decided to keep being Ladybug, so he actually deserves much more credits than she gives him. He pratically supported her the entire time she wasn't sure of herself, and now she seems to forget all about how he was nice and helpful toward her, not to mention that if she can save the day at the end, it's almost half the time because he took the hits for her, in Timebreaker she and everyone else would have died if not for him, or in Puppeteer she would have had her earrings taken away, or the Pharaoh she wouldn't have gotten in time to save Alya unless he busted her out of that slow bubble, or in Reflekta when he prevented her from getting defeated by Reflekta twice without having access to his powers or normal body. So I think she could give him a break sometimes, she created some of the akumas for her extremely selfish reasons, or her just thinking herself above everyone else's feelings and opinions, so she can cut it for him and his antics. His flirting is her karma for stalking Adrien.

      I must be a jerk- that one person I told you about is the ONLY guy who has ever been interested in me. I can get girls interested in me, but I'm not interested in girls. But I thank you for that- I would have thought you found me unpleasant, considering how harsh I can be.

      Eh, kids don't take that away with Marinette. I work with kids ages 5-10 for a living, that isn't what they see. And to be honest, most kids get if from each other or their parents and siblings. I don't tell you to not compare it to real life- I tell you to not compare it to yourself. The kids know what they're doing is wrong, but they do it anyway because they want to or it's fun. They also see the akuma as being her punishment. Like they see that Marinette's actions hurt someone else enough that they hurt other people. They don't, as far as I know, look at Marinette and think that just because Marinette doesn't get in trouble for palming Adrien's or Alya's phones, that it's okay to steal. They see it as a funny gag but something they'd never do, and from Alya, they learn the importance of forgiving a friend even though that friend really messed up. Kids are more likely to want to pretend to be those characters, and all they take from them is that Ladybug is heroic and Cat Noir is funny. At least, that's what I've noticed with the kids I work with (which is an entire elementary school, since I'm an occasional playground monitor)

      It isn't difficult, but it's also different. Marinette doesn't come up with complex plans when taking down akumas. She just doesn't.

      I want her to give him a break, but I also think how she sees superheroing is preventing her from doing so. I've said before I think Tikki stresses her out with what I can only guess is a strict set of rules she wants Marinette to abide by. Marinette never acts stressed in the normal sense, but her lashing out at Cat Noir like she does could be a product of stress. We know a few of Tikki's rules: Marinette cannot let her power get to her head, she cannot act like a celebrity, she must remain a mystery, she must keep her identity secret, she must keep Tikki a secret. The only rule Plagg seems to share is the one that keeps him a secret, and we know that this identity and being a mystery rule wasn't always a thing because "Jeanne d'Arc" (I say with quotes because the picture is clearly of St George and Astruc's art of her is very different) did not sport a mask and was very prominent. I think it might be Tikki who tells her she needs to be a leader, too, because Marinette is not much of a leader. She isn't a follower, but she isn't exactly a leader, either. She is sometimes, like in "Darkblade" but she usually isn't. So I think she feels, as Ladybug, she needs to be a leader. If this is true, then that might explain why she doesn't usually take Cat Noir's input, when Marinette often does take the input of others into account. She's got the wrong idea about how she should be superheroing. We know she looks to Tikki for advice and that Tikki freaks out over the smallest chance of people knowing too much about Ladybug.

      I'd really like there to be a time when she has to let him take the lead and doesn't really complain about it. I think she'd still try and lead, but end up still needing his help. I think not taking the lead for once might alleviate some of her stress and put her and Cat Noir back on more even footing. Like I think maybe she needs to be told, by Tikki, it's totally OK if Cat Noir takes over once in a while. Then he might actually be able to.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I must be a jerk- that one person I told you about is the ONLY guy who has ever been interested in me. I can get girls interested in me, but I'm not interested in girls. But I thank you for that- I would have thought you found me unpleasant, considering how harsh I can be.

      Eh, kids don't take that away with Marinette. I work with kids ages 5-10 for a living, that isn't what they see. And to be honest, most kids get if from each other or their parents and siblings. I don't tell you to not compare it to real life- I tell you to not compare it to yourself. The kids know what they're doing is wrong, but they do it anyway because they want to or it's fun. They also see the akuma as being her punishment. Like they see that Marinette's actions hurt someone else enough that they hurt other people. They don't, as far as I know, look at Marinette and think that just because Marinette doesn't get in trouble for palming Adrien's or Alya's phones, that it's okay to steal. They see it as a funny gag but something they'd never do, and from Alya, they learn the importance of forgiving a friend even though that friend really messed up. Kids are more likely to want to pretend to be those characters, and all they take from them is that Ladybug is heroic and Cat Noir is funny. At least, that's what I've noticed with the kids I work with (which is an entire elementary school, since I'm an occasional playground monitor)

      It isn't difficult, but it's also different. Marinette doesn't come up with complex plans when taking down akumas. She just doesn't.

      I want her to give him a break, but I also think how she sees superheroing is preventing her from doing so. I've said before I think Tikki stresses her out with what I can only guess is a strict set of rules she wants Marinette to abide by. Marinette never acts stressed in the normal sense, but her lashing out at Cat Noir like she does could be a product of stress. We know a few of Tikki's rules: Marinette cannot let her power get to her head, she cannot act like a celebrity, she must remain a mystery, she must keep her identity secret, she must keep Tikki a secret. The only rule Plagg seems to share is the one that keeps him a secret, and we know that this identity and being a mystery rule wasn't always a thing because "Jeanne d'Arc" (I say with quotes because the picture is clearly of St George and Astruc's art of her is very different) did not sport a mask and was very prominent. I think it might be Tikki who tells her she needs to be a leader, too, because Marinette is not much of a leader. She isn't a follower, but she isn't exactly a leader, either. She is sometimes, like in "Darkblade" but she usually isn't. So I think she feels, as Ladybug, she needs to be a leader. If this is true, then that might explain why she doesn't usually take Cat Noir's input, when Marinette often does take the input of others into account. She's got the wrong idea about how she should be superheroing. We know she looks to Tikki for advice and that Tikki freaks out over the smallest chance of people knowing too much about Ladybug.

      I'd really like there to be a time when she has to let him take the lead and doesn't really complain about it. I think she'd still try and lead, but end up still needing his help. I think not taking the lead for once might alleviate some of her stress and put her and Cat Noir back on more even footing. Like I think maybe she needs to be told, by Tikki, it's totally OK if Cat Noir takes over once in a while. Then he might actually be able to.

      Then if girls are interested in you that must mean you're not so bad, I think we girls are even more picky than boys. I'd be flattered if I were you.

      If you say so. But while that's how you see it with the kids you're with, maybe it goes differently for some others. 

      I don't think Tikki stress her out, it's more the villains abilities, personalities and goals that stress her out, like when Adrien is in danger, she seems even more reckless, or when her friends are in danger, or when they only have very little time before it's over like in DarkBlade. It's when the situation goes out of hand that she seems more aggressive. She knows Tikki is right and she sees why, her classmates and even her family gets akumatized, and that's with nobody figuring that she's Ladybug, so imagine what she thinks would happen if people knew she was Ladybug. It's more the stress that if she fails, it's gonna be Stone Heart all over again, and considering how hard she took it the first time I say she must not want to go through that again.

      Maybe she will let him. Like if she gives Adrien the Bee miraculous, he decided to give it to Chloé and use Chat Noir as an excuse to give him to her, because it wouldn't fit in his schedule. I could see Chat noir pointing out that she helped them twice and saved Ladybug's life, plus the fact that she trying to be a better person might help. He could offer to trrain her, since Marinette most likely won't want to. I would like to see that.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Then if girls are interested in you that must mean you're not so bad, I think we girls are even more picky than boys. I'd be flattered if I were you.

      If you say so. But while that's how you see it with the kids you're with, maybe it goes differently for some others. 

      I don't think Tikki stress her out, it's more the villains abilities, personalities and goals that stress her out, like when Adrien is in danger, she seems even more reckless, or when her friends are in danger, or when they only have very little time before it's over like in DarkBlade. It's when the situation goes out of hand that she seems more aggressive. She knows Tikki is right and she sees why, her classmates and even her family gets akumatized, and that's with nobody figuring that she's Ladybug, so imagine what she thinks would happen if people knew she was Ladybug. It's more the stress that if she fails, it's gonna be Stone Heart all over again, and considering how hard she took it the first time I say she must not want to go through that again.

      Maybe she will let him. Like if she gives Adrien the Bee miraculous, he decided to give it to Chloé and use Chat Noir as an excuse to give him to her, because it wouldn't fit in his schedule. I could see Chat noir pointing out that she helped them twice and saved Ladybug's life, plus the fact that she trying to be a better person might help. He could offer to trrain her, since Marinette most likely won't want to. I would like to see that.

      I work with over 600 kids.

      I think it's both. Like I think the stress of keeping her identity a secret just adds to the stress of it all. Like she can't even tell Cat Noir, and he's as involved as she is.

      Hm, maybe. I was thinking Fu gave it to her, because it says Fu calls upon Queen Bee.

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    • does anyone know when this is going to come out in english?

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    • We just to wait for it be on Netflix.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I work with over 600 kids.

      I think it's both. Like I think the stress of keeping her identity a secret just adds to the stress of it all. Like she can't even tell Cat Noir, and he's as involved as she is.

      Hm, maybe. I was thinking Fu gave it to her, because it says Fu calls upon Queen Bee.

      Yeah, in the U.S.A. In Canada, France and other countries it's a bit different.

      She could at least tell him how she feels about her duty, he's the only one who can understand the stress of the double life, or talk to Fu. 

      You mean Fu gives it to Chloé, right? Because I can't for the life of me think Marinette will ever give Chloé the miraculous even after she changed. She will thank her when she does something useful, but I doubt that she will give her a miraculous, unless she's brainwashed, an imposter or is possessed, or just wasn't watching and put it in the wrong bag, or she panicked and dropped it in her bag and had to let her have it unless she wanted to have trouble for having her hand in her purse or something. I can only see one of these scenario coming true, along with Fu giving it to her. That also means that if Fu calls upon Queen Bee, Rena Rouge and Carapace, that means he'll stick around even after he gave Wayzz to someone else.

      I think Queen Bee will be the first to appear, because she was teased first, then we'll have Rena Rouge and finally Carapace, as he was the last one revealed. 

      I wonder why the peacock and the butterfly were the one lost, were they the one active when the temple was destroyed? It seems weird they weren't in the box with the others, so I can only think they had holders when it happened, otherwise they would have been safe in the box since the others were okay and with Fu for over 170 ish years, no?

      I can't wait to see Kagami in normal clothes and not in her fencing gear.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Yeah, in the U.S.A. In Canada, France and other countries it's a bit different.

      She could at least tell him how she feels about her duty, he's the only one who can understand the stress of the double life, or talk to Fu. 

      You mean Fu gives it to Chloé, right? Because I can't for the life of me think Marinette will ever give Chloé the miraculous even after she changed. She will thank her when she does something useful, but I doubt that she will give her a miraculous, unless she's brainwashed, an imposter or is possessed, or just wasn't watching and put it in the wrong bag, or she panicked and dropped it in her bag and had to let her have it unless she wanted to have trouble for having her hand in her purse or something. I can only see one of these scenario coming true, along with Fu giving it to her. That also means that if Fu calls upon Queen Bee, Rena Rouge and Carapace, that means he'll stick around even after he gave Wayzz to someone else.

      I think Queen Bee will be the first to appear, because she was teased first, then we'll have Rena Rouge and finally Carapace, as he was the last one revealed. 

      I wonder why the peacock and the butterfly were the one lost, were they the one active when the temple was destroyed? It seems weird they weren't in the box with the others, so I can only think they had holders when it happened, otherwise they would have been safe in the box since the others were okay and with Fu for over 170 ish years, no?

      I can't wait to see Kagami in normal clothes and not in her fencing gear.

      Yeah but kids are kids. They're not gonna be more impressionable just because they're French, surely.

      She could. But I don't think it ever occurs to her, because she does not want to talk about her secret identity in any capacity to him. I would love to see her sit down and talk to Cat Noir though, and she's only just met Master Fu, so we'll have to wait and see.

      Isn't that what I said? That Master Fu would be the one to give it to her? I think he gives it to her and it's not a mistake that she's the one. Everyone is intent on making it a mistake, and I don't think it will be.

      I think I had a reason for thinking the Bee would be the sixth one we see, coming right before Carapace but after Rena Rouge and Le Paon, but I forget what it was. Darn.

      I think maybe they fell out of the box. The box itself doesn't have a special locking mechanism to it, so the lid could have opened slightly at one point, just long enough to allow them to fall out. We know the Moth is very large, because the wings prevent it from sitting in its spot of the box, and the Peacock is right at the very bottom of the box, where the opening would be largest if the lid was jostled open. With both of them being very flat (unlike the Turtle, Ladybug, Black Cat, and Bee), they could easily slip out if the box is slightly open for only a moment. The Fox, being at the top, might not have fallen if it tried to fall forward and hit the lid. Master Fu says they were lost when the Temple was destroyed, along with the Spellbook. If they had bearers, they wouldn't be lost, surely. He would know where they are or he'd be able to find the bearers if they make appearances. It makes no earthly sense to me for any of the people working at the Temple to be Miraculous bearers. They're supposed to be protecting the Miraculous to give them to people, not use them. It's also possible someone attempted to steal them but were thwarted and the Miraculouses were lost alongside the Spellbook. It's also possible Master Fu isn't telling the full story about what precisely happened to them. Whatever happened to them, I think they were lost along with the Book (since that's what Fu says) and the Peacock was either swapped out during the Temple's destruction for a fake that someone who has never seen the Miraculouses before wouldn't question, or was found at a different time. Assuming the real one didn't make it home with Gabriel and was given to his wife, and she either gave it to someone else or absconded with it. I'm pretty sure the green brooch isn't the real thing. It doesn't fit with the other trends we see with the Miraculouses. It's not the same colour as the kwami, it's not the same colour as the suit, it's not the same colour as its spot in the box (the outer ones do this- the inner two are their inactive colours, silver and black), there's already a green-coloured Miraculous, it looks nothing like the Miraculous book's drawing of it, and Plagg didn't notice it, which is apparently "weird". I used to be skeptical that the green brooch was a fake, but now it doesn't seem very likely that it's real.

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    • Finally someone renamed Auguste to August!

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Yeah but kids are kids. They're not gonna be more impressionable just because they're French, surely.

      She could. But I don't think it ever occurs to her, because she does not want to talk about her secret identity in any capacity to him. I would love to see her sit down and talk to Cat Noir though, and she's only just met Master Fu, so we'll have to wait and see.

      Isn't that what I said? That Master Fu would be the one to give it to her? I think he gives it to her and it's not a mistake that she's the one. Everyone is intent on making it a mistake, and I don't think it will be.

      I think I had a reason for thinking the Bee would be the sixth one we see, coming right before Carapace but after Rena Rouge and Le Paon, but I forget what it was. Darn.

      I think maybe they fell out of the box. The box itself doesn't have a special locking mechanism to it, so the lid could have opened slightly at one point, just long enough to allow them to fall out. We know the Moth is very large, because the wings prevent it from sitting in its spot of the box, and the Peacock is right at the very bottom of the box, where the opening would be largest if the lid was jostled open. With both of them being very flat (unlike the Turtle, Ladybug, Black Cat, and Bee), they could easily slip out if the box is slightly open for only a moment. The Fox, being at the top, might not have fallen if it tried to fall forward and hit the lid. Master Fu says they were lost when the Temple was destroyed, along with the Spellbook. If they had bearers, they wouldn't be lost, surely. He would know where they are or he'd be able to find the bearers if they make appearances. It makes no earthly sense to me for any of the people working at the Temple to be Miraculous bearers. They're supposed to be protecting the Miraculous to give them to people, not use them. It's also possible someone attempted to steal them but were thwarted and the Miraculouses were lost alongside the Spellbook. It's also possible Master Fu isn't telling the full story about what precisely happened to them. Whatever happened to them, I think they were lost along with the Book (since that's what Fu says) and the Peacock was either swapped out during the Temple's destruction for a fake that someone who has never seen the Miraculouses before wouldn't question, or was found at a different time. Assuming the real one didn't make it home with Gabriel and was given to his wife, and she either gave it to someone else or absconded with it. I'm pretty sure the green brooch isn't the real thing. It doesn't fit with the other trends we see with the Miraculouses. It's not the same colour as the kwami, it's not the same colour as the suit, it's not the same colour as its spot in the box (the outer ones do this- the inner two are their inactive colours, silver and black), there's already a green-coloured Miraculous, it looks nothing like the Miraculous book's drawing of it, and Plagg didn't notice it, which is apparently "weird". I used to be skeptical that the green brooch was a fake, but now it doesn't seem very likely that it's real.

      If you say so.

      It's not talking about her secret identity, just about how she feels to jungle a double life and the stress of lying to her friends and family that she could talk, without saying who she is. Chat Noir would understand, it's about feelings, not identities.

      Really? When you'll remember, please tell me why you think that. I don't think they would have teased Queen Bee so much if it was only to show her last, that would piss off the fandom so much. Everyone wants to see Chloé's redemption soon. Le Paon only was shown twice and we'll know who she is at the end of the season. Speaking of the season, the first 13 episodes are coming on Netflix tommorow, right?

      I still find it suspicious that only those 2 fell off, maybe they got taken at the last second to try to prevent the temple's destruction and that they were lost before being used, and Master Fu didn't know about it, left with the five remaining ones and discovered they were not there only after he left? And he could have come back to try to find them with the book later. If Gabriel found the butterfly and the book, Master Fu could have found them long before he was even born. He never bothered to go back looking for them, since Gabriel apparently found them. And I'm pretty sure it's the real peacock miraculous, it's the same one from the openings. And if Plagg pratically didn't give a second thought to the book, I'm not really surprised he would give the brooch a second look either. He's too lazy and hungry for that. And so, even if it doesn't look like in the book, in the book Chat Noir's staff is black, but with Adrien it's silver. So I suppose if the peacock doesn't look like Duusu, it's because otherwise it would have looked weird that it's only blue with red/dark pink eyes like hers when real peacock aren't like that, otherwise it would have been suspicious back then maybe? I suppose there must always be an odd one.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      If you say so.

      It's not talking about her secret identity, just about how she feels to jungle a double life and the stress of lying to her friends and family that she could talk, without saying who she is. Chat Noir would understand, it's about feelings, not identities.

      Really? When you'll remember, please tell me why you think that. I don't think they would have teased Queen Bee so much if it was only to show her last, that would piss off the fandom so much. Everyone wants to see Chloé's redemption soon. Le Paon only was shown twice and we'll know who she is at the end of the season. Speaking of the season, the first 13 episodes are coming on Netflix tommorow, right?

      I still find it suspicious that only those 2 fell off, maybe they got taken at the last second to try to prevent the temple's destruction and that they were lost before being used, and Master Fu didn't know about it, left with the five remaining ones and discovered they were not there only after he left? And he could have come back to try to find them with the book later. If Gabriel found the butterfly and the book, Master Fu could have found them long before he was even born. He never bothered to go back looking for them, since Gabriel apparently found them. And I'm pretty sure it's the real peacock miraculous, it's the same one from the openings. And if Plagg pratically didn't give a second thought to the book, I'm not really surprised he would give the brooch a second look either. He's too lazy and hungry for that. And so, even if it doesn't look like in the book, in the book Chat Noir's staff is black, but with Adrien it's silver. So I suppose if the peacock doesn't look like Duusu, it's because otherwise it would have looked weird that it's only blue with red/dark pink eyes like hers when real peacock aren't like that, otherwise it would have been suspicious back then maybe? I suppose there must always be an odd one.

      I think she'd feel she's skirting too close to her identity with that. She avoids anything related to the topic if she can.

      I'm pretty sure- nay, positive- Chloe won't be redeemed by the time she gets a Miraculous. She'll prove she CAN redeem herself, but she won't be redeemded. Her Miraculous will lead her to redemption. And I never said "last" I said "second to last". I think we'll see Le Paon first, then Rena Rouge will come in, then Queen Bee, and finally, Carapace in Season 3. Queen Bee being the sixth was important somehow, I forgot. It was the significance of the number 6 and I can't find any comments I made about it. Darn it. I think Chloe will prove for a third time (after "Antibug" and "Despair Bear") that Chloe is capable of changing, then she'll get a Miraculous.

      We don't have an airdate for the first 13 episodes on Netflix.

      I think there's more to it, but he says the Book was lost along with the two Miraculouses, and he has the Book when leaving the temple. So the only way I can square it is they were lost while he was running away by falling out along with the Miraculous.

      I think the Tools change slightly depending on the Bearer, or else that the Black Cat has undergone a little change over time, but why do people keep telling me that "oh, there's this little change on the Black Cat's page, so that means this massive change on the Peacock's page is the same thing"? The thing in the book DOES look like Duusu. Five feathers and blue, and there's possibly dots coloured pink on it. Why should Duusu's Miraculous be the only one that doesn't look like its Kwami? Why should it be the only one that isn't remotely the same colour as the outfit it produces? Why should it be the only one that looks NOTHING like its counterpart in the book? I do not think it's the real one, and it was said it was "strange " that Plagg didn't notice the Peacock Miraculous. That's the significance of him not bringing it up. If they're going to have a plot twist that the brooch in Gabriel's safe isn't the Miraculous, why would they show what the real one looks like in the opening?

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I think she'd feel she's skirting too close to her identity with that. She avoids anything related to the topic if she can.

      I'm pretty sure- nay, positive- Chloe won't be redeemed by the time she gets a Miraculous. She'll prove she CAN redeem herself, but she won't be redeemded. Her Miraculous will lead her to redemption. And I never said "last" I said "second to last". I think we'll see Le Paon first, then Rena Rouge will come in, then Queen Bee, and finally, Carapace in Season 3. Queen Bee being the sixth was important somehow, I forgot. It was the significance of the number 6 and I can't find any comments I made about it. Darn it. I think Chloe will prove for a third time (after "Antibug" and "Despair Bear") that Chloe is capable of changing, then she'll get a Miraculous.

      We don't have an airdate for the first 13 episodes on Netflix.

      I think there's more to it, but he says the Book was lost along with the two Miraculouses, and he has the Book when leaving the temple. So the only way I can square it is they were lost while he was running away by falling out along with the Miraculous.

      I think the Tools change slightly depending on the Bearer, or else that the Black Cat has undergone a little change over time, but why do people keep telling me that "oh, there's this little change on the Black Cat's page, so that means this massive change on the Peacock's page is the same thing"? The thing in the book DOES look like Duusu. Five feathers and blue, and there's possibly dots coloured pink on it. Why should Duusu's Miraculous be the only one that doesn't look like its Kwami? Why should it be the only one that isn't remotely the same colour as the outfit it produces? Why should it be the only one that looks NOTHING like its counterpart in the book? I do not think it's the real one, and it was said it was "strange " that Plagg didn't notice the Peacock Miraculous. That's the significance of him not bringing it up. If they're going to have a plot twist that the brooch in Gabriel's safe isn't the Miraculous, why would they show what the real one looks like in the opening?

      Pfft! She pratically almost says it's her sometimes, she's way to careless with her identity, about as much as she is careless when Adrien is in the picture.

      Um, they all appear in season 2, after all they are shown in the opening. But you think Le Paon is gonna show up first before the other heroes? Interesting. Then that would be a mystery solved.

      I thought you said you were gonna get it on Netflix for December 1st. Don't tell me they changed it again?

      I doubt the book would have survived spending over a 100 years buried in the snow. 

      Because it's a perfect copy, on the account that it looks identical to it, but has no powers whatsoever. After all, Lila bought a fake fox miraculous that is identical to the one Fu keeps, plus the fact that Astruc did said they were fakes copies of the miraculouses. I wouldn't be surprised that Gabriel made copies of them all, since he has the book, and he did mention the book was his source of inspiration, and since Lila got a replica of the fox miraculous, I wouldn't doubt that it could either be fake or real. Then again, plagg hardly takes anything seriously, considering he completely bypassed the book while Tikki immediatly recognized it, I wouldn't be surprised that he just wouldn't care much. If it's in his chosen's house, I don't think he would worry since he knows they are safe in Gabriel's safe, even Adrien didn't knew he exist. Or it was just to mess with us. Like they did with Gabriel and Hawk Moth in Simon Says. Gives us clues, that turns out real. 

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Pfft! She pratically almost says it's her sometimes, she's way to careless with her identity, about as much as she is careless when Adrien is in the picture.

      Um, they all appear in season 2, after all they are shown in the opening. But you think Le Paon is gonna show up first before the other heroes? Interesting. Then that would be a mystery solved.

      I thought you said you were gonna get it on Netflix for December 1st. Don't tell me they changed it again?

      I doubt the book would have survived spending over a 100 years buried in the snow. 

      Because it's a perfect copy, on the account that it looks identical to it, but has no powers whatsoever. After all, Lila bought a fake fox miraculous that is identical to the one Fu keeps, plus the fact that Astruc did said they were fakes copies of the miraculouses. I wouldn't be surprised that Gabriel made copies of them all, since he has the book, and he did mention the book was his source of inspiration, and since Lila got a replica of the fox miraculous, I wouldn't doubt that it could either be fake or real. Then again, plagg hardly takes anything seriously, considering he completely bypassed the book while Tikki immediatly recognized it, I wouldn't be surprised that he just wouldn't care much. If it's in his chosen's house, I don't think he would worry since he knows they are safe in Gabriel's safe, even Adrien didn't knew he exist. Or it was just to mess with us. Like they did with Gabriel and Hawk Moth in Simon Says. Gives us clues, that turns out real. 

      She does, but she's also really wary on other occasions

      Ah! I forgot about the opening. I think Le Paon is going to be the trigger for the others to appear. I don't know if we'll see her secret identity, just see Le Paon.

      I said that was the rumour, but now it's been moved to Spring as I hear it. So yeah, they changed it. Ughhhhhhh.

      Supposing it was buried in the snow or doesn't have magical properties. It still looks really good for being over 100 years old period.

      I don't think the green brooch is a copy. It's a peacock-shaped brooch but it looks nothing like the Miraculous in the book apart from that. I think we're being misled. Can we stop using the "Plagg isn't serious" argument? It really undermines him as a character and I'm really sick of hearing that excuse. Plagg can be serious and he does notice the book and know it's important, throwing it at Adrien. If that green brooch looked anything like the real Miraculous, Plagg surely would have insisted it be removed since it's not in use and Plagg does get serious about the Miraculouses. He tells Adrien that he must never tell anyone about him and I don't think he's so unserious and lazy that he'd just leave a Miraculous vulnerable like that or not tell Adrien what it is and warn him that his father has a Miraculous, too. Plagg does not care about the secret identity thing because it isn't a rule- Tikki implies it's only to protect Marinette from Hawk Moth she wants her to keep her identity hidden. Some of the past bearers do not wear masks, so this isn't a rule of being a Miraculous holder. Le Paon is not wearing a mask, either, that we can see, she seems to just have heavy eye makeup and her skin is blue. Nor, technically, is Carapace, who is wearing goggles, not a mask. If the Miraculous is there and unused, and Plagg knows it's missing like Tikki seems to know the Peacock and Moth were, he wouldn't leave it there. He'd grab it, tell Adrien to take it to Master Fu. Why would Plagg just leave it there, knowing it's important?

      The only proof we have that the green brooch is real is that it's shown in the opening as being the Miraculous. Everything else points otherwise. It does not match with the other Miraculouses, it does not match its kwami, it does not match its spot in the box (it's green, the spot is blue- the other spots on the outside match with the colour their Miraculous primarily is being purple, orange, yellow, and green. The inner two match with the uninhabited colours), it does not match the design of either of its bearers (being green while they are wearing predoninantly blue with absolutely no green), and it does not match its depiction in the book at all. It is the same colour as another Miraculous (the Turtle, as both are green, shades of green notwithstanding), which is just bizarre. I understand that real peacocks have green tails, but green does not appear anywhere on either Le Paon or the Ancient Chinese Miraculous Bearer, nor does it appear on Duusu in any capacity. So why does it appear on the Miraculous? Why does the Miraculous in the book look almost nothing like the thing we're being told is the Miraculous? None of the other pages in the book are that far off from what they show. Cat Noir's ring now has for clawlike things on it, but it's otherwise the same thing. His staff looks different, but so does the Moth's cane and the Fox's flute is different between the depiction of its bearer and the illustration of the flute on the next page. I think the TOOLS change slightly according to their bearer but still keep their general shape and appearance, but the Miraculous is different. No other Miraculous looks radically different and I think those claws on Adrien's ring aren't there for show, they're there for a reason. Why would the show creators make the illustations in the book look different? And I say again, the Miraculous in the book does not look anything like the green brooch, aside from being shaped like a peacock. Little changes like the added claws on the black cat ring are way different than a Miraculous that's a totally different shape and colour. Even the tools keep the same shape, size, and roughly the same colour despite being different between their book depictions and their current ones.

      Oh also, we can't see the Miraculous on Le Paon, but we can on every other superhero they've shown so far- Queen Bee, Rena Rouge, and Carapace. Le Paon's hiding it behind her fan. The fact that they are hiding her Miraculous from sight only makes me more suspicious that green thing is not the real Miraculous.

      The thing is... let me put it this way, to see if it helps illustrate my point: Saying that the green brooch is the same thing as the blue Miraculous depicted in the Spellbook would be like if the Spellbook showed Felix's Ring of the Black Cat, but Adrien still has the version of the ring he has. They're both black, feline-themed rings, but that's all they have in common. The green object and the blue one in the book are both peacock-shaped brooches, but that's literally the only thing they have in common, so they have even less in common than Felix's ring does with Adrien's.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      The only proof we have that the green brooch is real is that it's shown in the opening as being the Miraculous. Everything else points otherwise. It does not match with the other Miraculouses, it does not match its kwami, it does not match its spot in the box (it's green, the spot is blue- the other spots on the outside match with the colour their Miraculous primarily is being purple, orange, yellow, and green. The inner two match with the uninhabited colours), it does not match the design of either of its bearers (being green while they are wearing predoninantly blue with absolutely no green), and it does not match its depiction in the book at all. It is the same colour as another Miraculous (the Turtle, as both are green, shades of green notwithstanding), which is just bizarre. I understand that real peacocks have green tails, but green does not appear anywhere on either Le Paon or the Ancient Chinese Miraculous Bearer, nor does it appear on Duusu in any capacity. So why does it appear on the Miraculous? Why does the Miraculous in the book look almost nothing like the thing we're being told is the Miraculous?

      (First off I have no idea why the quote is doing this) Perhaps Duusu is not present currently inside the brooch, for example, when Tikki is not in the earings they are pitch black, when Plagg is not present in the ring, its pure white. The reason the peacock miraculous is green is because Duusu is not there at the moment.

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    • Yugioh z wrote:

      (First off I have no idea why the quote is doing this) Perhaps Duusu is not present currently inside the brooch, for example, when Tikki is not in the earings they are pitch black, when Plagg is not present in the ring, its pure white. The reason the peacock miraculous is green is because Duusu is not there at the moment.

      Wouldn't making it still be obviously a peacock defeat the purpose of disguising it? It's also a different shape- there are five feathers on the brooch in the book, and they're broader, and the brooch is at a different angle. Instead of being a straightish line (180 degrees), the blue one in the book is more of a 125 degree angle. They don't look the same, and why should Duusu be out of her Miraculous? The thing is, the Miraculouses seem to mostly lose their colour and lose their animal attribute- of the four we know about, only the Turtle doesn't do this. The Ring loses its black colour and the cat paw, the Earrings lose the red and the spots, the Moth loses its wings and turns black.

      They all turn one solid colour, though, something that green brooch does not do. It's different shades of green and it has blue on it but it isn't the same thing- it's a gemstone that sits on the peacock's body, it isn't the main thing.

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    • By the way, in order to avoid getting in trouble, bring your things about the Peacock Miraculous here. Since it doesn't even appear in "Gigantitan", it's off-topic.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Ah! I forgot about the opening. I think Le Paon is going to be the trigger for the others to appear. I don't know if we'll see her secret identity, just see Le Paon.

      I said that was the rumour, but now it's been moved to Spring as I hear it. So yeah, they changed it. Ughhhhhhh.

      Supposing it was buried in the snow or doesn't have magical properties. It still looks really good for being over 100 years old period.

      I don't think the green brooch is a copy. It's a peacock-shaped brooch but it looks nothing like the Miraculous in the book apart from that. I think we're being misled. Can we stop using the "Plagg isn't serious" argument? It really undermines him as a character and I'm really sick of hearing that excuse. Plagg can be serious and he does notice the book and know it's important, throwing it at Adrien. If that green brooch looked anything like the real Miraculous, Plagg surely would have insisted it be removed since it's not in use and Plagg does get serious about the Miraculouses. He tells Adrien that he must never tell anyone about him and I don't think he's so unserious and lazy that he'd just leave a Miraculous vulnerable like that or not tell Adrien what it is and warn him that his father has a Miraculous, too. Plagg does not care about the secret identity thing because it isn't a rule- Tikki implies it's only to protect Marinette from Hawk Moth she wants her to keep her identity hidden. Some of the past bearers do not wear masks, so this isn't a rule of being a Miraculous holder. Le Paon is not wearing a mask, either, that we can see, she seems to just have heavy eye makeup and her skin is blue. Nor, technically, is Carapace, who is wearing goggles, not a mask. If the Miraculous is there and unused, and Plagg knows it's missing like Tikki seems to know the Peacock and Moth were, he wouldn't leave it there. He'd grab it, tell Adrien to take it to Master Fu. Why would Plagg just leave it there, knowing it's important?

      The only proof we have that the green brooch is real is that it's shown in the opening as being the Miraculous. Everything else points otherwise. It does not match with the other Miraculouses, it does not match its kwami, it does not match its spot in the box (it's green, the spot is blue- the other spots on the outside match with the colour their Miraculous primarily is being purple, orange, yellow, and green. The inner two match with the uninhabited colours), it does not match the design of either of its bearers (being green while they are wearing predoninantly blue with absolutely no green), and it does not match its depiction in the book at all. It is the same colour as another Miraculous (the Turtle, as both are green, shades of green notwithstanding), which is just bizarre. I understand that real peacocks have green tails, but green does not appear anywhere on either Le Paon or the Ancient Chinese Miraculous Bearer, nor does it appear on Duusu in any capacity. So why does it appear on the Miraculous? Why does the Miraculous in the book look almost nothing like the thing we're being told is the Miraculous? None of the other pages in the book are that far off from what they show. Cat Noir's ring now has for clawlike things on it, but it's otherwise the same thing. His staff looks different, but so does the Moth's cane and the Fox's flute is different between the depiction of its bearer and the illustration of the flute on the next page. I think the TOOLS change slightly according to their bearer but still keep their general shape and appearance, but the Miraculous is different. No other Miraculous looks radically different and I think those claws on Adrien's ring aren't there for show, they're there for a reason. Why would the show creators make the illustations in the book look different? And I say again, the Miraculous in the book does not look anything like the green brooch, aside from being shaped like a peacock. Little changes like the added claws on the black cat ring are way different than a Miraculous that's a totally different shape and colour. Even the tools keep the same shape, size, and roughly the same colour despite being different between their book depictions and their current ones.

      Oh also, we can't see the Miraculous on Le Paon, but we can on every other superhero they've shown so far- Queen Bee, Rena Rouge, and Carapace. Le Paon's hiding it behind her fan. The fact that they are hiding her Miraculous from sight only makes me more suspicious that green thing is not the real Miraculous.

      The thing is... let me put it this way, to see if it helps illustrate my point: Saying that the green brooch is the same thing as the blue Miraculous depicted in the Spellbook would be like if the Spellbook showed Felix's Ring of the Black Cat, but Adrien still has the version of the ring he has. They're both black, feline-themed rings, but that's all they have in common. The green object and the blue one in the book are both peacock-shaped brooches, but that's literally the only thing they have in common, so they have even less in common than Felix's ring does with Adrien's.

      Okay.

      Saw it too. Grrr!

      Yes, but still strange, if it doesn't have magical properties, or Gabriel asked to have it restored.

      Well, you can't say he is as serious as Tikki. He wanted to party instead of going for the bubbler, and almost every episodes, he whines that he still have to finish eating before going for the akuma, or he just straight hides from Adrien like in Stormy Weather, or leave to play in Rogercop, and his actions in that episodes led to Roger being akumatized. So forgive me for saying that, but seeing him act most of the time, it's hard to take him seriously, except from those rare moments that he is helpful, or caring toward Adrien. And while he shoved the book in Adrien's hand and said it looked familiar, he pratically goes on to think about his stomach instead of hearing that Adrien says it's about super heroes right after that. The only thing that the miraculous and Duusu have in common is the blue of the gem that matches Duusu's color and the feather tail, not the same color but both have one. I think we are being mislead too, but nothing we can do about it until we've seen more episodes.

      Don't know. We'll see.

      It is suspicious, but wouldn't we see it, those feathers things fan that she has in her hand are see-through. 

      Um, maybe it's because they did the opening before Origins and season 2, so while it changed from the book, they can't change it's appearance from the opening, otherwise everyone would get confused??? Just trowing random thinking here.

      That baby with the green eyes was a bit creepy, who has green eyes like that in real life? And I would love to see Small!Adrien playing with cars in a flashback.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Okay.

      Saw it too. Grrr!

      Yes, but still strange, if it doesn't have magical properties, or Gabriel asked to have it restored.

      Well, you can't say he is as serious as Tikki. He wanted to party instead of going for the bubbler, and almost every episodes, he whines that he still have to finish eating before going for the akuma, or he just straight hides from Adrien like in Stormy Weather, or leave to play in Rogercop, and his actions in that episodes led to Roger being akumatized. So forgive me for saying that, but seeing him act most of the time, it's hard to take him seriously, except from those rare moments that he is helpful, or caring toward Adrien. And while he shoved the book in Adrien's hand and said it looked familiar, he pratically goes on to think about his stomach instead of hearing that Adrien says it's about super heroes right after that. The only thing that the miraculous and Duusu have in common is the blue of the gem that matches Duusu's color and the feather tail, not the same color but both have one. I think we are being mislead too, but nothing we can do about it until we've seen more episodes.

      Don't know. We'll see.

      It is suspicious, but wouldn't we see it, those feathers things fan that she has in her hand are see-through. 

      Um, maybe it's because they did the opening before Origins and season 2, so while it changed from the book, they can't change it's appearance from the opening, otherwise everyone would get confused??? Just trowing random thinking here.

      That baby with the green eyes was a bit creepy, who has green eyes like that in real life? And I would love to see Small!Adrien playing with cars in a flashback.

      He isn't as serious as Tikki, but the party wasn't for Plagg, he wanted Adrien to do it for Adrien. Plagg wants Adrien to be more laid back not just for Plagg, but for Adrien. I think of it as Plagg's way of getting adrien to relax a little. Regarding the safe, I think Plagg wanted to get out of there after getting the book, since while he doesn't recognise the book, he does throw it to Adrien and then abruptly wants to stop snooping. Plagg isn't as serious as Tikki, but he does take looking out for Adrien seriously. Tikki and Plagg can be seen as all work and all play respectively, with Tikki rarely seems to be taking a breather to have fun, where Plagg is often having fun and doesn't always seem to play it seriously. But Tikki does know when to relax, and Plagg does know when to get serious. Both of them have their charge's best interests at heart. I also think Plagg might have been trying to distract Adrien from the book. It's entirely possible that Plagg actually knows exactly what the book is. He knows they need to get it, so throws it to Adrien, but does not want Adrien looking through it and connecting Hawk Moth to his father. I mean, come on- he changes the subject immediately and says "who cares?" coming from a normal character, that would be really suspicious. "Hey, here's this book I think I know! Who cares, I'm hungry! Didn't you hear me, I'm hungry!". It's kind of weird if you think about it, his reaction. Like he wanted to get the heck out of the safe.

      I think part of Plagg's lazy personality is partially for Adrien's benefit. Adrien never gets to relax, he never gets to enjoy himself, he's always jumping from one thing to another. Plagg is trying to get him to stop and smell the I guess for Plagg, camembert not roses.

      If she's wearing it, we should be able to see it, unless it blends in with her outfit is I think what you're saying.

      The page for the Peacock could have been edited if they wanted to change it, but they went for a full-blown blue theme for the Peacock. I'm not buying they just decided on a whim to change the Miraculous and didn't redesign accordingly. That's just lazy, I think.

      I would love to see flashbacks of young Adrien, I bet he was adorable. I'd also enjoy flashbacks of a young Marinette, who was also probably adorable. I also must agree- August was a very creepy baby.

      If this seems meandering it's a quarter to six in the morning and I have not slept.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      He isn't as serious as Tikki, but the party wasn't for Plagg, he wanted Adrien to do it for Adrien. Plagg wants Adrien to be more laid back not just for Plagg, but for Adrien. I think of it as Plagg's way of getting adrien to relax a little. Regarding the safe, I think Plagg wanted to get out of there after getting the book, since while he doesn't recognise the book, he does throw it to Adrien and then abruptly wants to stop snooping. Plagg isn't as serious as Tikki, but he does take looking out for Adrien seriously. Tikki and Plagg can be seen as all work and all play respectively, with Tikki rarely seems to be taking a breather to have fun, where Plagg is often having fun and doesn't always seem to play it seriously. But Tikki does know when to relax, and Plagg does know when to get serious. Both of them have their charge's best interests at heart. I also think Plagg might have been trying to distract Adrien from the book. It's entirely possible that Plagg actually knows exactly what the book is. He knows they need to get it, so throws it to Adrien, but does not want Adrien looking through it and connecting Hawk Moth to his father. I mean, come on- he changes the subject immediately and says "who cares?" coming from a normal character, that would be really suspicious. "Hey, here's this book I think I know! Who cares, I'm hungry! Didn't you hear me, I'm hungry!". It's kind of weird if you think about it, his reaction. Like he wanted to get the heck out of the safe.

      I think part of Plagg's lazy personality is partially for Adrien's benefit. Adrien never gets to relax, he never gets to enjoy himself, he's always jumping from one thing to another. Plagg is trying to get him to stop and smell the I guess for Plagg, camembert not roses.

      If she's wearing it, we should be able to see it, unless it blends in with her outfit is I think what you're saying.

      The page for the Peacock could have been edited if they wanted to change it, but they went for a full-blown blue theme for the Peacock. I'm not buying they just decided on a whim to change the Miraculous and didn't redesign accordingly. That's just lazy, I think.

      I would love to see flashbacks of young Adrien, I bet he was adorable. I'd also enjoy flashbacks of a young Marinette, who was also probably adorable. I also must agree- August was a very creepy baby.

      If this seems meandering it's a quarter to six in the morning and I have not slept.

      So you think he looks out for Adrien by pretending not to? Huh, that seems genius. Anf if Plagg gives to Adrien what Tikki gave to Marinette, hopefully soon, that would be so sweet.

      Maybe it does?

      Well people would have gottten confused if it didn't look like in season 1 maybe? People would have complained either way that it looks or not like in the opening or in the book, so maybe they thought: " well screw it, maybe we can salvage it with a plot centering around that, would make a good twist" or something? 

      Young!Adrien must have been the cutest thing ever. No wonder his parents would not let him out of the house, they wanted him for himself! Haha! August is the creepiest character on the show as a civilian to my humble opinion.

      I hear you.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      So you think he looks out for Adrien by pretending not to? Huh, that seems genius. Anf if Plagg gives to Adrien what Tikki gave to Marinette, hopefully soon, that would be so sweet.

      Maybe it does?

      Well people would have gottten confused if it didn't look like in season 1 maybe? People would have complained either way that it looks or not like in the opening or in the book, so maybe they thought: " well screw it, maybe we can salvage it with a plot centering around that, would make a good twist" or something? 

      Young!Adrien must have been the cutest thing ever. No wonder his parents would not let him out of the house, they wanted him for himself! Haha! August is the creepiest character on the show as a civilian to my humble opinion.

      I hear you.

      I think Plagg isn't as careless and lazy as he acts, anyway. He tries to set an example for Adrien (kinda) but really sucks at it, I think. I mean, he's still a kwami tied to a Miraculous, so it doesn't make a lot of sense he'd be so averse to doing the thing associated with it. I'm also just kind of frustrated with people acting like all there is to Plagg is a lazy cat who eats cheese. Plagg's an ages-old kwami, and I think he is truly laid-back, but he just wants his charges to be happy and be the best they can be. I like Plagg.

      Oh also, I have a theory that it isn't Plagg's charges who die, it's Tikki's. Cat's have nine lives, after all. So their destiny is to be alone, outliving their Ladybugs. Everyone else seems to be of the opinion the Black Cats die off and that makes Plagg lonely, explaining his flippant personality. But I think otherwise.

      Well, like I say here, in my vaguely in-depth "This is why I think the green brooch is fake" explanation, I think there's a possibility the green brooch isn't the real Miraculous, we're being misled. I'm thinking the characters are going to think it's the real one, too. I can't see why they'd make the Peacock's theme colour blue, and make it's Miraculous green.

      Nope I totally hear you on that. Creepy baby. His eyes are like the brightest lime green and it's way creepy. I'd really like to see a little Adrien either in a picture around the house, or in a flashback when we learn about Madame Agreste. Like we see the memory of when Adrien drew the picture seen in "The Collector". Speaking of, I'd like to see another Gabriel-centric episode, maybe tell the story of what happened to Mrs Agreste through him.

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    • Troublemaker wasn't the next episode? Huh...

      Well, this was something new. A baby was akumatized and we know how babies are gonna look like in the show! Something intresting at least to me is that if the original target of an akuma feels something different. Also, it seems like Hawk Moth can just come up with a name and power of an akuma whenever he needs to. Seriously, giant-ism is the most cliche superpower, I bet that he already had a well-thought superpower to give Gorilla when he got akumatized before the akuma changed directions.

      But it seems like Gorilla's akumatized form will also only have superstrength, which is another cliche, so maybe he already had the idea of a giant akumatized villain called "Gigantitan" in mind.

      Also, should't it be named Giantitan in USA? Gigantitan is a mix of gigante (giant) and titan. Considering its the T that mix up the words, and how gigante is giant translated, it should be Giantitan. But I guess it would sound weird.

      Now into the power. Super size and super strenght. Im not really a big fan of these cliche superpowers (giant-ism, super strenght, heat vision, invisibility...) but I gotta admit that giant-ism would be very usefull...at certain times. It would be very easy to squash a criminal, but not so much to live in your daily life, since you would't be possible to fit anywhere. So while its usefull, its deeefinitly not a power you would wan't to have if you actually got akumatized, thanks to the side effects.

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    • CalimTheCrystalGem wrote:
      Troublemaker wasn't the next episode? Huh...

      Well, this was something new. A baby was akumatized and we know how babies are gonna look like in the show! Something intresting at least to me is that if the original target of an akuma feels something different. Also, it seems like Hawk Moth can just come up with a name and power of an akuma whenever he needs to. Seriously, giant-ism is the most cliche superpower, I bet that he already had a well-thought superpower to give Gorilla when he got akumatized before the akuma changed directions.

      But it seems like Gorilla's akumatized form will also only have superstrength, which is another cliche, so maybe he already had the idea of a giant akumatized villain called "Gigantitan" in mind.

      Also, should't it be named Giantitan in USA? Gigantitan is a mix of gigante (giant) and titan. Considering its the T that mix up the words, and how gigante is giant translated, it should be Giantitan. But I guess it would sound weird.

      Now into the power. Super size and super strenght. Im not really a big fan of these cliche superpowers (giant-ism, super strenght, heat vision, invisibility...) but I gotta admit that giant-ism would be very usefull...at certain times. It would be very easy to squash a criminal, but not so much to live in your daily life, since you would't be possible to fit anywhere. So while its usefull, its deeefinitly not a power you would wan't to have if you actually got akumatized, thanks to the side effects.

      Nope. We were hinted that the Gorilla's episode was next by Astruc I think, everyone thought it would be Troublemaker, but then it was Gigantitan.

      I think the akuma's powers come from the feelings of the person when they get akumatised. Gigantitan got big because he was throwing a tantrum.

      I think they might go with Gigantyke. Right now we have no official English title.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I think Plagg isn't as careless and lazy as he acts, anyway. He tries to set an example for Adrien (kinda) but really sucks at it, I think. I mean, he's still a kwami tied to a Miraculous, so it doesn't make a lot of sense he'd be so averse to doing the thing associated with it. I'm also just kind of frustrated with people acting like all there is to Plagg is a lazy cat who eats cheese. Plagg's an ages-old kwami, and I think he is truly laid-back, but he just wants his charges to be happy and be the best they can be. I like Plagg.

      Oh also, I have a theory that it isn't Plagg's charges who die, it's Tikki's. Cat's have nine lives, after all. So their destiny is to be alone, outliving their Ladybugs. Everyone else seems to be of the opinion the Black Cats die off and that makes Plagg lonely, explaining his flippant personality. But I think otherwise.

      Well, like I say here, in my vaguely in-depth "This is why I think the green brooch is fake" explanation, I think there's a possibility the green brooch isn't the real Miraculous, we're being misled. I'm thinking the characters are going to think it's the real one, too. I can't see why they'd make the Peacock's theme colour blue, and make it's Miraculous green.

      Nope I totally hear you on that. Creepy baby. His eyes are like the brightest lime green and it's way creepy. I'd really like to see a little Adrien either in a picture around the house, or in a flashback when we learn about Madame Agreste. Like we see the memory of when Adrien drew the picture seen in "The Collector". Speaking of, I'd like to see another Gabriel-centric episode, maybe tell the story of what happened to Mrs Agreste through him.

      Never said I hate Plagg, I kind of like him too, he's different from all the other kwamis who seems friendly, helpful and nice, he makes an nice change of pace. I do find his antics hilarious. 

      Wouldn't that actually make Chat Noirs dies actually faster? They know they have 9 lives, so they use this to shield their Ladybugs when they take hit for them. And sometimes their 9 lives might not always work? Like if they have a fatal illness, and they die from it, they get a live taken, and come back, only to die from their illness soon after? Or if they die from age? They died young back then. Would be a real pain. They already are the strongest along the Ladybugs, so them having 9 lives would be even more of an asset for them than Ladybug. Master Fu's miraculous isn't the strongest, or works the same way as the ladybug and cat miraculous, so it can expand the life of it's holder, but I don't see it with the cat miraculous because it's already one of the 2 most powerful, otherwise the cat would be stronger than ladybug. The Ladybug and Cat miraculous are the strongest, therefore they are different from the rest, using their powers gives them time limits, something the others might not have, since Hawk Moth use his and have no limits to how much he can use them in a day.

      I'm sure everything will be explained eventually.

      I want an episode where Chat Noir get de-aged back to a young kid, and Ladybug has to take care of him. Mini!Chat Noir would be so adorable, and might be a real pain since he would have his powers, and isn't afraid to use them. I hope we won't see Auguste again, he creeped me out. I'm not sure we'll see the Gorilla akumatized in season 2, it might more happen in season 3. But I hope we'll see him talk soon, or have more cute interactions with Adrien.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Never said I hate Plagg, I kind of like him too, he's different from all the other kwamis who seems friendly, helpful and nice, he makes an nice change of pace. I do find his antics hilarious. 

      Wouldn't that actually make Chat Noirs dies actually faster? They know they have 9 lives, so they use this to shield their Ladybugs when they take hit for them. And sometimes their 9 lives might not always work? Like if they have a fatal illness, and they die from it, they get a live taken, and come back, only to die from their illness soon after? Or if they die from age? They died young back then. Would be a real pain. They already are the strongest along the Ladybugs, so them having 9 lives would be even more of an asset for them than Ladybug. Master Fu's miraculous isn't the strongest, or works the same way as the ladybug and cat miraculous, so it can expand the life of it's holder, but I don't see it with the cat miraculous because it's already one of the 2 most powerful, otherwise the cat would be stronger than ladybug. The Ladybug and Cat miraculous are the strongest, therefore they are different from the rest, using their powers gives them time limits, something the others might not have, since Hawk Moth use his and have no limits to how much he can use them in a day.

      I'm sure everything will be explained eventually.

      I want an episode where Chat Noir get de-aged back to a young kid, and Ladybug has to take care of him. Mini!Chat Noir would be so adorable, and might be a real pain since he would have his powers, and isn't afraid to use them. I hope we won't see Auguste again, he creeped me out. I'm not sure we'll see the Gorilla akumatized in season 2, it might more happen in season 3. But I hope we'll see him talk soon, or have more cute interactions with Adrien.

      Never said you hated him, but you were one of the people who just brushed him off as lazy and cheese-eating like that's all there is to him.

      I didn't mean bearers of the Black Cat Miraculous literally have 9 lives, just that... oh boy. I meant that cats have 9 lives, right? Ladybugs only have 1. So Black Cats should be able to outlive the Ladybugs. Just... forget the 9 lives thing. I was meaning the ought have a longer lifespan. They can't come back from the dead. Ladybugs like Jeanne d'Arc and Hippolyta did not have, like, happy deaths, right? Jeanne was burnt at the stake and most of Hippolyta's deaths (of which there are many possible killers for her) were at the hands of someone she cared for if it wasn't one of her subjects. Maybe that's a trend among Ladybugs. To die unfortunately and leave their Black Cats alone. After all, bad luck has to strike the Black Cat at some point where they're not able to defend Ladybug. Also, is it said anywhere that the Black Cat's purpose, any Black Cat, is to protect the Ladybug, or is that just how things work when Ladybug's powers are needed to purify Hawk Moth's akumas? Like if they're spending all their time fighting normal supervillains, or if they were fighting, say, Queen Bee rather than Hawk Moth, why would Ladybug need to be the leader? She's the leader between Ladybug and Cat Noir because she's needed to take care of the mess Hawk Moth keeps making. But I don't think she's necessarily the permanent leader. I don't think she's even the first one listed in the book.

      Toddler!Cat Noir would be adorable. And obnoxious. So obnoxious. Or he might be a perfect gentleman, who knows. Still, adorable. I really want the staple episode of these kinds of shows where the transformation trinket doesn't work right. Either Ladybug/Cat Noir can't transform, or they can't detransform, because of something the akuma did that affected their Miraculouses. Like they don't think anything of getting hit because they don't feel anything, but Cat Noir either can't use Cataclysm or can't transform back despite using it, and Marinette can't transform at all. It makes the most sense to have Marinette unable to transform, and Cat Noir unable to detransform, since that works with how Ladybug is needed and how Adrien's lack of presence would be felt much more than Marinette's. But on the other hand, Ladybug would freak out a lot and Adrien would be antsy because he can't help Ladybug. And it's more likely we'd see Ladybug trying to go about a normal Marinette day while trying to hide being in her Ladybug suit. Like she tries to fake being sick and people wanna come visit her. Alya brings Nino and Adrien. Shenanigans. Adrien later internally panicks about being unable to transform, made worse by how she actually does need his help this time around. "Where is that cat?!" Might be a good episode where she learns to stop taking him for granted, or if she's the one who can't transform, trust him to lead and unlike in Princess Fragrance, he doesn't lose himself to the akuma. Grr.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Never said you hated him, but you were one of the people who just brushed him off as lazy and cheese-eating like that's all there is to him.

      I didn't mean bearers of the Black Cat Miraculous literally have 9 lives, just that... oh boy. I meant that cats have 9 lives, right? Ladybugs only have 1. So Black Cats should be able to outlive the Ladybugs. Just... forget the 9 lives thing. I was meaning the ought have a longer lifespan. They can't come back from the dead. Ladybugs like Jeanne d'Arc and Hippolyta did not have, like, happy deaths, right? Jeanne was burnt at the stake and most of Hippolyta's deaths (of which there are many possible killers for her) were at the hands of someone she cared for if it wasn't one of her subjects. Maybe that's a trend among Ladybugs. To die unfortunately and leave their Black Cats alone. After all, bad luck has to strike the Black Cat at some point where they're not able to defend Ladybug. Also, is it said anywhere that the Black Cat's purpose, any Black Cat, is to protect the Ladybug, or is that just how things work when Ladybug's powers are needed to purify Hawk Moth's akumas? Like if they're spending all their time fighting normal supervillains, or if they were fighting, say, Queen Bee rather than Hawk Moth, why would Ladybug need to be the leader? She's the leader between Ladybug and Cat Noir because she's needed to take care of the mess Hawk Moth keeps making. But I don't think she's necessarily the permanent leader. I don't think she's even the first one listed in the book.

      Toddler!Cat Noir would be adorable. And obnoxious. So obnoxious. Or he might be a perfect gentleman, who knows. Still, adorable. I really want the staple episode of these kinds of shows where the transformation trinket doesn't work right. Either Ladybug/Cat Noir can't transform, or they can't detransform, because of something the akuma did that affected their Miraculouses. Like they don't think anything of getting hit because they don't feel anything, but Cat Noir either can't use Cataclysm or can't transform back despite using it, and Marinette can't transform at all. It makes the most sense to have Marinette unable to transform, and Cat Noir unable to detransform, since that works with how Ladybug is needed and how Adrien's lack of presence would be felt much more than Marinette's. But on the other hand, Ladybug would freak out a lot and Adrien would be antsy because he can't help Ladybug. And it's more likely we'd see Ladybug trying to go about a normal Marinette day while trying to hide being in her Ladybug suit. Like she tries to fake being sick and people wanna come visit her. Alya brings Nino and Adrien. Shenanigans. Adrien later internally panicks about being unable to transform, made worse by how she actually does need his help this time around. "Where is that cat?!" Might be a good episode where she learns to stop taking him for granted, or if she's the one who can't transform, trust him to lead and unlike in Princess Fragrance, he doesn't lose himself to the akuma. Grr.

      Well, until he shows how wise and serious he can be for the kwami of destruction that he is, I will consider him lazy and more thinking with his stomach than anything else, but still well meaning and caring toward Adrien. I wish the writers would stop giving him only one line per episode and give him more focus.

      Ooohhh. Okay. Well, I suppose the Black Cats have it harder, having to watch their ladybugs die, being unable to do anything about it and protect them, then having to live with the rest of their lives with the guilt and a broken heart... I think it's harder on the person who's left behind than the person who left for good in death. If Hercules was the cat miraculous holder, he didn't end happily either, and if Gilles De Rais was Chat Noir, he didn't end up any better after Joan's death. I suppose Ladybugs die more quickly while Chat Noirs drags on in despair and misery until death comes to them, which means not any better than their Ladybugs or even worse. Who can live with the love of their life dying in a horrible way and not being able to do anything or save them from this and still be happy in the end? Nobody, I think. The Ladybugs are almost lucky to die first, wouldn't want to know what would happen if their Chat Noir died before them. Still harsh for all the Ladybugs and Chat Noir and their deaths sucks so much.

      Well, going by Astruc's design and poll about a future Marinette as Ladybug, I think it might happen that a future villain will send either Ladybug or Chat Noir in the future and exchange them with their future self, resulting in either Present!Ladybug being stuck in the future with Future!Chat Noir and Present!Chat Noir in the present with Future!Ladybug, or Present!Chat Noir in the future with Future!Ladybug and Future!Chat Noir stuck in the past with Present!Ladybug. I actually want Chat Noir to be the one stuck in the future, as Ladybug already went in the past in "Timebreaker", granted it was 6 minutes in the past and she had her other self and Chat Noir to help her, but still. I think I would like to see Ladybug drooling over her partner from the future and maybe be surprised by how much mature he got, while Future!Ladybug would say how much cute Chat Noir was when he was younger and cooe over him. Would be nice.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Well, until he shows how wise and serious he can be for the kwami of destruction that he is, I will consider him lazy and more thinking with his stomach than anything else, but still well meaning and caring toward Adrien. I wish the writers would stop giving him only one line per episode and give him more focus.

      Ooohhh. Okay. Well, I suppose the Black Cats have it harder, having to watch their ladybugs die, being unable to do anything about it and protect them, then having to live with the rest of their lives with the guilt and a broken heart... I think it's harder on the person who's left behind than the person who left for good in death. If Hercules was the cat miraculous holder, he didn't end happily either, and if Gilles De Rais was Chat Noir, he didn't end up any better after Joan's death. I suppose Ladybugs die more quickly while Chat Noirs drags on in despair and misery until death comes to them, which means not any better than their Ladybugs or even worse. Who can live with the love of their life dying in a horrible way and not being able to do anything or save them from this and still be happy in the end? Nobody, I think. The Ladybugs are almost lucky to die first, wouldn't want to know what would happen if their Chat Noir died before them. Still harsh for all the Ladybugs and Chat Noir and their deaths sucks so much.

      Well, going by Astruc's design and poll about a future Marinette as Ladybug, I think it might happen that a future villain will send either Ladybug or Chat Noir in the future and exchange them with their future self, resulting in either Present!Ladybug being stuck in the future with Future!Chat Noir and Present!Chat Noir in the present with Future!Ladybug, or Present!Chat Noir in the future with Future!Ladybug and Future!Chat Noir stuck in the past with Present!Ladybug. I actually want Chat Noir to be the one stuck in the future, as Ladybug already went in the past in "Timebreaker", granted it was 6 minutes in the past and she had her other self and Chat Noir to help her, but still. I think I would like to see Ladybug drooling over her partner from the future and maybe be surprised by how much mature he got, while Future!Ladybug would say how much cute Chat Noir was when he was younger and cooe over him. Would be nice.

      If they even let him appear at all...

      That's the idea, yep! That eventually their bad luck causes them to lose their partner, who could be either their best friend, a family member, a companion, or something more than just a friend. I don't think every Ladybug and Black Cat were intimate with each other, but there was a bond there for nearly all of them. Cats are lonely creatures. I think Plagg's charges survive quite some time, but he has to watch them suffer, rather than them dying on him. It's the more tragic option, befitting the bastion of bad luck and destruction, represented by a creature known for being aloof and alone.

      It would, yes hehe. It would also be nice if the past selves were both brought back. Like, c'mon, Plagg would love to hang out with himself, while the two Tikkis would be panicking while the two Marinettes are like "Neat!... but so wrong". The Adriens could be awkward, since future Adrien probably knows who Hawk Moth is. Either way, hiding the future versions from their parents/Nathalie would be hiiiilarious, on top of the future selves awkwardly hiding their identities. Complete with bad liar Marinette x2 and smooth Adrien x2. Cuz future Adrien is well-versed in sneaking in and out, where I think future Marinette just tries to go in the door like a normal person in a fit of forgetfulness/clumsiness/Marinette being a dork

      Curse you fanfic brain! (shakes fist to the heavens)

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      If they even let him appear at all...

      That's the idea, yep! That eventually their bad luck causes them to lose their partner, who could be either their best friend, a family member, a companion, or something more than just a friend. I don't think every Ladybug and Black Cat were intimate with each other, but there was a bond there for nearly all of them. Cats are lonely creatures. I think Plagg's charges survive quite some time, but he has to watch them suffer, rather than them dying on him. It's the more tragic option, befitting the bastion of bad luck and destruction, represented by a creature known for being aloof and alone.

      It would, yes hehe. It would also be nice if the past selves were both brought back. Like, c'mon, Plagg would love to hang out with himself, while the two Tikkis would be panicking while the two Marinettes are like "Neat!... but so wrong". The Adriens could be awkward, since future Adrien probably knows who Hawk Moth is. Either way, hiding the future versions from their parents/Nathalie would be hiiiilarious, on top of the future selves awkwardly hiding their identities. Complete with bad liar Marinette x2 and smooth Adrien x2. Cuz future Adrien is well-versed in sneaking in and out, where I think future Marinette just tries to go in the door like a normal person in a fit of forgetfulness/clumsiness/Marinette being a dork

      Curse you fanfic brain! (shakes fist to the heavens)

      I think he will.

      I think cats are more like dogs but with their friendliness switch going off sometimes. Sometimes they want to be alone, sometimes they'll cuddle and purr and everything. Dogs are always friendly and wants to play, cats are more relaxed and do have periods of don't want and want to. So going by your thoughts, you think Plagg lets Adrien do whatever makes him happy before he suffers like hell like his past chosens? Ha! Adrien suffered long before Plagg came, him having the miraculous or not doesn't change the fact that is mother is no longer around,  he sees his new friends getting akumatize on a daily basis or that the fact that is dad is Hawk Moth and eventually he'll know and he will break completely. He didn't need to be Chat Noir for all of that. Then again, Hercules life sucked since he was born.

      Meh, I don't think both of them would be stuck in either the present or the future. I say Chat Noir goes in the future, his turn to time travel. Since we saw Adult!Ladybug I guess he'll see her in the future while his future self is stuck in the past. Maybe Future!Ladybug would know Chat Noir's identity and Hawk Moth's and would be very embarrassed to tell him that his dad is the villain he seeks. Probably she would be so sweet toward him that he would think she returns his feelings and they married, and she would have to break the news to him, leaving him shatttered while she sees him break with the most sorrowful look we've ever seen in the series. I could see that happening, or Ladybug just not telling him because it would change the past, or just use that as an excuse to not tell him, or because she's still doesn't want to face him.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      I think he will.

      I think cats are more like dogs but with their friendliness switch going off sometimes. Sometimes they want to be alone, sometimes they'll cuddle and purr and everything. Dogs are always friendly and wants to play, cats are more relaxed and do have periods of don't want and want to. So going by your thoughts, you think Plagg lets Adrien do whatever makes him happy before he suffers like hell like his past chosens? Ha! Adrien suffered long before Plagg came, him having the miraculous or not doesn't change the fact that is mother is no longer around,  he sees his new friends getting akumatize on a daily basis or that the fact that is dad is Hawk Moth and eventually he'll know and he will break completely. He didn't need to be Chat Noir for all of that. Then again, Hercules life sucked since he was born.

      Meh, I don't think both of them would be stuck in either the present or the future. I say Chat Noir goes in the future, his turn to time travel. Since we saw Adult!Ladybug I guess he'll see her in the future while his future self is stuck in the past. Maybe Future!Ladybug would know Chat Noir's identity and Hawk Moth's and would be very embarrassed to tell him that his dad is the villain he seeks. Probably she would be so sweet toward him that he would think she returns his feelings and they married, and she would have to break the news to him, leaving him shatttered while she sees him break with the most sorrowful look we've ever seen in the series. I could see that happening, or Ladybug just not telling him because it would change the past, or just use that as an excuse to not tell him, or because she's still doesn't want to face him.

      I was referencing the fact that Plagg has not appeared in two our of seven episodes, "Despair Bear" and "Prime Queen", and a few of them have been pretty small appearances.

      They are, it just depends on the cat (I have a cat that acts like a typical dog, one that wants to take over the world, and a cowardly lion), but cats are typically associated as being more lone creatures, like how peacocks are seen as stuck-up or dogs are seen as friendly. Plagg I think is trying to get Adrien to open up and have fun, and possibly try and be happy with Ladybug as long as he can before she meets the same fate as many of the past Ladybugs. I don't think all Ladybugs met a horrible, early end, but they're not uncommon. I think maybe the Ladybugs do better if they aren't active in the same area as the Black Cats. It's implied they usually work together, but not really confirmed. Also, that's assuming Herakles even used that Miraculous. That lion head has nothing to do with his Miraculous, it's the skin of the Nemean Lion that he slays in his lore. I like to think he had the Ox, and that's where his super strength came from.

      Well, him not going to the future spares him future spoilers, especially if it's at a point where Adrien and Marinette are an official thing. Like minor spoilers about the shape of Paris in the future and how everyone is doing and if his mother comes back or not. Things that might be hard to hide. Though, Future!Ladybug could casually mention her "mother in law" and Adrien gets dejected over it. I mean, either way is fine for me. Cat Noir trading places with his future self, or both of them being sent back. If they're both sent back, then the akuma/supervillain (if it isn't an akuma) follows them. Ladybug could still team with Future!Cat Noir and Cat Noir with Future!Ladybug. Like let's be real, Ladybug would just not trust them either way lol. They might get accused of being akumas by their younger selves. In my head, the future Cat Noir is caught up in Ladybug's yo-yo with a priceless "oh no" face (hanging upside-down from a lamp post, because some things never die) and Future!Ladybug between a wall and Cat Noir's staff with a matching "uh-oh" face. Like they tried to avoid their younger selves by laying low, and failed very quickly. Speaking of Marinette knowing his identity in the future, I like to imagine she doesn't, but he knows exactly who she is behind the mask and just never told her he knows. If only because I find that entertaining somehow. I think I just get a kick out of imagining Marinette and Adrien's reactions to all of this and to their future selves, as well as the other's future self.

      Both Ladybugs bond over their shared "annoyance" Cat Noir's punning. Cuz they do seem to find the puns funny. Speaking of puns, I love that "Cat Noir" is itself a pun on "Chat Noir". I usually use "Chat Noir" when either talking about Felix or talking about something in the French dub that differs from the English dub. I know you use it because Chat Noir is the official one, but (waves hand) I'm with Cat Noir on this one- love a good pun.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Adrien actually gets kinda weird around her, but I guess he's needing to be somewhere else and the Gorilla isn't helping, and Marinette turns down his offer to be driven somewhere because... she's going to make cous cous? I honestly have no idea, and Alix throws rose petals and is entertaining.

      If anyone's confused about Marinette going to make 'couscous' in the subs, 'pousse-pousse' is French for 'rickshaw' - she was saying that she'd take a rickshaw home instead, but mixing up the words just like Mari does in the dubs. However, this doesn't work in English, so if anyone's confused - there you are!

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I was referencing the fact that Plagg has not appeared in two our of seven episodes, "Despair Bear" and "Prime Queen", and a few of them have been pretty small appearances.

      They are, it just depends on the cat (I have a cat that acts like a typical dog, one that wants to take over the world, and a cowardly lion), but cats are typically associated as being more lone creatures, like how peacocks are seen as stuck-up or dogs are seen as friendly. Plagg I think is trying to get Adrien to open up and have fun, and possibly try and be happy with Ladybug as long as he can before she meets the same fate as many of the past Ladybugs. I don't think all Ladybugs met a horrible, early end, but they're not uncommon. I think maybe the Ladybugs do better if they aren't active in the same area as the Black Cats. It's implied they usually work together, but not really confirmed. Also, that's assuming Herakles even used that Miraculous. That lion head has nothing to do with his Miraculous, it's the skin of the Nemean Lion that he slays in his lore. I like to think he had the Ox, and that's where his super strength came from.

      Well, him not going to the future spares him future spoilers, especially if it's at a point where Adrien and Marinette are an official thing. Like minor spoilers about the shape of Paris in the future and how everyone is doing and if his mother comes back or not. Things that might be hard to hide. Though, Future!Ladybug could casually mention her "mother in law" and Adrien gets dejected over it. I mean, either way is fine for me. Cat Noir trading places with his future self, or both of them being sent back. If they're both sent back, then the akuma/supervillain (if it isn't an akuma) follows them. Ladybug could still team with Future!Cat Noir and Cat Noir with Future!Ladybug. Like let's be real, Ladybug would just not trust them either way lol. They might get accused of being akumas by their younger selves. In my head, the future Cat Noir is caught up in Ladybug's yo-yo with a priceless "oh no" face (hanging upside-down from a lamp post, because some things never die) and Future!Ladybug between a wall and Cat Noir's staff with a matching "uh-oh" face. Like they tried to avoid their younger selves by laying low, and failed very quickly. Speaking of Marinette knowing his identity in the future, I like to imagine she doesn't, but he knows exactly who she is behind the mask and just never told her he knows. If only because I find that entertaining somehow. I think I just get a kick out of imagining Marinette and Adrien's reactions to all of this and to their future selves, as well as the other's future self.

      Both Ladybugs bond over their shared "annoyance" Cat Noir's punning. Cuz they do seem to find the puns funny. Speaking of puns, I love that "Cat Noir" is itself a pun on "Chat Noir". I usually use "Chat Noir" when either talking about Felix or talking about something in the French dub that differs from the English dub. I know you use it because Chat Noir is the official one, but (waves hand) I'm with Cat Noir on this one- love a good pun.

      Indeed, too bad.

      Maybe.

      Urgh, I would prefer that Marinette knows Adrien is Chat Noir and having to come to face that she rejects her crush on a daily basis, that would be more priceless. Anf if he goes to the future, I think he would more prefer to see if cars fly or if Nino married Alya. Hahaha! 

      I don't just use Chat Noir because it's the official name, it's also because I'm french, therefore I go with the names in my language. English is my second language.

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    • does anyone know when this episode will come out in the uk?

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    • AnixLitriocht134 wrote:

      If anyone's confused about Marinette going to make 'couscous' in the subs, 'pousse-pousse' is French for 'rickshaw' - she was saying that she'd take a rickshaw home instead, but mixing up the words just like Mari does in the dubs. However, this doesn't work in English, so if anyone's confused - there you are!

      I was actually going off what I could hear, not subs. I watched it sans subtitles.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Indeed, too bad.

      Maybe.

      Urgh, I would prefer that Marinette knows Adrien is Chat Noir and having to come to face that she rejects her crush on a daily basis, that would be more priceless. Anf if he goes to the future, I think he would more prefer to see if cars fly or if Nino married Alya. Hahaha! 

      I don't just use Chat Noir because it's the official name, it's also because I'm french, therefore I go with the names in my language. English is my second language.

      Oh I want her to find out lol. And I wasn't thinking he'd go try and find out those things, just that they'd be things he'd end up learning because they're part of their daily lives.

      Eh, I swear you told me it was because it was the official name.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Oh I want her to find out lol. And I wasn't thinking he'd go try and find out those things, just that they'd be things he'd end up learning because they're part of their daily lives.

      Eh, I swear you told me it was because it was the official name.

      I think he'll ask if he's still alive in the future. Or if he married someone. Future!Ladybug's face would be priceless.

      I did, but I also said it was because it was in my language that I called the names like that too, no? Oh well. Either way it's always Chat Noir to me.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      I think he'll ask if he's still alive in the future. Or if he married someone. Future!Ladybug's face would be priceless.

      I did, but I also said it was because it was in my language that I called the names like that too, no? Oh well. Either way it's always Chat Noir to me.

      Probably hah. Off-topic, I kind of like to imagine Rena Rouge will end up having some personality quirks in common with the Cheshire Cat from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. Like I know Rena Rouge won't appear much, but at the same time, I can see her abusing her powers a little to help Marinette get with Adrien, since Marinette is too shy to take the initiative with Adrien, hence the plan in "Gigantitan". Ha, full circled back to the episode.

      I think you said something like that. I'd probably use Chat Noir if I weren't so attached to the pun that is Cat Noir, and I'm a little disappointed the didn't call him that in French, considering Adrien's punchant for puns.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Probably hah. Off-topic, I kind of like to imagine Rena Rouge will end up having some personality quirks in common with the Cheshire Cat from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. Like I know Rena Rouge won't appear much, but at the same time, I can see her abusing her powers a little to help Marinette get with Adrien, since Marinette is too shy to take the initiative with Adrien, hence the plan in "Gigantitan". Ha, full circled back to the episode.

      I think you said something like that. I'd probably use Chat Noir if I weren't so attached to the pun that is Cat Noir, and I'm a little disappointed the didn't call him that in French, considering Adrien's punchant for puns.

      I think she'd drag Carapace with her for shipping Marinette with Adrien. But I'm not sure Trixx would approves, I bet she likes pranks and tricks for a good laugh, but I think she draws the line at using powers to get people together, some things must be left alone and be done by themselves. I'm sure she would ask her: "what would Ladybug do?". Even if it's to help Marinette, I think Adrien could have a say in the matter, plus he likes Ladybug and maybe Kagami too, is it fair to force him in situations where he is alone with Marinette all the time, like the writers are pratically doing right now? He does need to interact more with other people other than Marinette other than the reason that he's her crush and she wants him.

      It's a french show, so of course they will use the name in french cause it looks great like that without too much difficulties to say. Coccinelle would be a mouthful for you guys to say.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      I think she'd drag Carapace with her for shipping Marinette with Adrien. But I'm not sure Trixx would approves, I bet she likes pranks and tricks for a good laugh, but I think she draws the line at using powers to get people together, some things must be left alone and be done by themselves. I'm sure she would ask her: "what would Ladybug do?". Even if it's to help Marinette, I think Adrien could have a say in the matter, plus he likes Ladybug and maybe Kagami too, is it fair to force him in situations where he is alone with Marinette all the time, like the writers are pratically doing right now? He does need to interact more with other people other than Marinette other than the reason that he's her crush and she wants him.

      It's a french show, so of course they will use the name in french cause it looks great like that without too much difficulties to say. Coccinelle would be a mouthful for you guys to say.

      We don't know much about Trixx, so I think you're projecting your lack of desire to see Adrienette happen onto her. Plagg definitely doesn't have those boundaries you want Trixx to have, so there's nothing to assume Trixx would have them. And of course Adrien should have a say in the matter, and he should interact with other people. I never said otherwise, but you always bring up how Adrien needs to talk to other people as if you think I only care about seeing him talk to Marinette, and I find that frustrating. I never once said this should be a recurring thing Rena Rouge does. Like I said, Rena Rouge will not appear much. So her doing this would only be a single-episode ordeal. When you factor in Alya's personality, her desire for Marinette to get with Adrien, and the fact that the entire plan in "Gigantitan" was of Alya's concoction, it's not unreasonable to think she'd try and use her powers to nudge Adrien towards Marinette and get Marinette to open up around Adrien. Or rather, she'd use the fact that she's a mystery when suited up to do something. It is not out of her character is all I was saying, and you turned it into a "well, Trixx wouldn't want that and Adrien needs to talk to other characters" thing. You're deflecting. I would love for Marinette to spend time with Adrien for something that is unrelated to her crush on him, maybe start to show her more of his personality. I would love to see Adrien talk with other people in his class more. I'd love to see him get some focus episodes, and I hope that we do get that. I've always agreed with you that Adrien needs to stop being framed firstly as just Marinette's crush. But that wasn't what I was talking about at all.

      Personally, though, away from that, I think Alya will be the one to hand over her Miraculous to Ladybug. She chooses journalism over superheroing, but she gets her Miraculous back anyway when her help is needed. A nice call-back to Marinette doing the same for Alya in "Origins". I think Alya would be the more unexepected choice because she's a fangirl of superheroes, but I also think she'd pick journalism over that, since her life's dream is to be a journalist.

      I know it's a French show, but Cat Noir also looks great like that, and it's a pun, fitting Adrien's character. "Cat" cannot be harder to say than "Miraculous", surely. I'm just surprised that, with Adrien's personality, they didn't opt for calling him "Cat Noir" rather than the non-pun, Chat Noir. It has nothing to do with the fact that it's what he's called in English and everything to do with it being a pun. And I don't think "Coccinelle" would be too hard to say if it's being said in every episode. And they could have called her Coccinelle, and just changed her name in English if that was what they were worried about. There's English sprinkled throughout. It feels like a missed opportunity to me. With the dual-language name, it doesn't feel so simple as his name literally being "Black Cat" even though it is.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      We don't know much about Trixx, so I think you're projecting your lack of desire to see Adrienette happen onto her. Plagg definitely doesn't have those boundaries you want Trixx to have, so there's nothing to assume Trixx would have them. And of course Adrien should have a say in the matter, and he should interact with other people. I never said otherwise, but you always bring up how Adrien needs to talk to other people as if you think I only care about seeing him talk to Marinette, and I find that frustrating. I never once said this should be a recurring thing Rena Rouge does. Like I said, Rena Rouge will not appear much. So her doing this would only be a single-episode ordeal. When you factor in Alya's personality, her desire for Marinette to get with Adrien, and the fact that the entire plan in "Gigantitan" was of Alya's concoction, it's not unreasonable to think she'd try and use her powers to nudge Adrien towards Marinette and get Marinette to open up around Adrien. Or rather, she'd use the fact that she's a mystery when suited up to do something. It is not out of her character is all I was saying, and you turned it into a "well, Trixx wouldn't want that and Adrien needs to talk to other characters" thing. You're deflecting. I would love for Marinette to spend time with Adrien for something that is unrelated to her crush on him, maybe start to show her more of his personality. I would love to see Adrien talk with other people in his class more. I'd love to see him get some focus episodes, and I hope that we do get that. I've always agreed with you that Adrien needs to stop being framed firstly as just Marinette's crush. But that wasn't what I was talking about at all.

      Personally, though, away from that, I think Alya will be the one to hand over her Miraculous to Ladybug. She chooses journalism over superheroing, but she gets her Miraculous back anyway when her help is needed. A nice call-back to Marinette doing the same for Alya in "Origins". I think Alya would be the more unexepected choice because she's a fangirl of superheroes, but I also think she'd pick journalism over that, since her life's dream is to be a journalist.

      I know it's a French show, but Cat Noir also looks great like that, and it's a pun, fitting Adrien's character. "Cat" cannot be harder to say than "Miraculous", surely. I'm just surprised that, with Adrien's personality, they didn't opt for calling him "Cat Noir" rather than the non-pun, Chat Noir. It has nothing to do with the fact that it's what he's called in English and everything to do with it being a pun. And I don't think "Coccinelle" would be too hard to say if it's being said in every episode. And they could have called her Coccinelle, and just changed her name in English if that was what they were worried about. There's English sprinkled throughout. It feels like a missed opportunity to me. With the dual-language name, it doesn't feel so simple as his name literally being "Black Cat" even though it is.

      Geez, you had your Adrinette for a couple of episodes in season 2 now, can you be happy with that and start thinking about other things than the ship, there's more to the show than just the ships between the protagonists, even thought it might be good plots, having them to much driving the episodes gets boring and predictable, and I want to see something else for once. That's what I'm trying to say, too. So lets leave the ship aside for a change and focus on other things that are actually getting somewhere, because the Adrinette didn't happen in the episode, so let's change topic for a while. I'm starting to get tired of talking about romance between Adrien and Marinette, I think the writers felt they were maybe going a bit overboard with it if Adrien's expressions meant anything in the end.

      Maybe. That or since she has Nino, she'll feel she'll have to lie to him or put him in danger, or if Hawk Moth targets Mari or Adrien, she won't want them to get hurt because of her, hence why she will retire, maybe.

      Ladybug sounds better than Coccinelle for a super hero name. Have you ever tried to say Coccinelle? Also, I think I know why they don't call her that, in english it start with with the english version of the name of the first robin, you get that right? But Chat Noir is nice, so that's why they use it in french, or since Ladybug already has her name in english in french, they felt like Chat noir must have his name in french, and change it for the english dub. 2 french super heroes with english names, really? Not sure that would pass to the production, because again it's french, and in my country we're losing it because of all the immigrants that came over and don't want to learn it. Let's try to keep my language alive, thank you. We'll have Queen Bee, in season 2, so.

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    • Maetch wrote:

      Thearomalady wrote:
      Avatar thoyrn wrote:

      Astruc said there's no filler episodes this season, meaning this one isn't filler. Time to play "spot the plot"!

      One thing i've noticed is how Hawkmoth is begining to lose control over his victims slowly.
      He is, that's true. Or rather, he's getting more reckless with his choices of victims. He's getting desperate and not thinking clearly.

      I certainly hope he becomes more competent soon, I hate to think revealing his identity means he's going to be less threatening.

      I think of it as HM not being as in control of the Miraculous's power as he thinks he is.

      Maybe using the power evil is hurting/draining Nooroo. We also can't forget the Peacock will be in the picture soon, and she makes HM "look like a baby"

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Geez, you had your Adrinette for a couple of episodes in season 2 now, can you be happy with that and start thinking about other things than the ship, there's more to the show than just the ships between the protagonists, even thought it might be good plots, having them to much driving the episodes gets boring and predictable, and I want to see something else for once. That's what I'm trying to say, too. So lets leave the ship aside for a change and focus on other things that are actually getting somewhere, because the Adrinette didn't happen in the episode, so let's change topic for a while. I'm starting to get tired of talking about romance between Adrien and Marinette, I think the writers felt they were maybe going a bit overboard with it if Adrien's expressions meant anything in the end.

      Maybe. That or since she has Nino, she'll feel she'll have to lie to him or put him in danger, or if Hawk Moth targets Mari or Adrien, she won't want them to get hurt because of her, hence why she will retire, maybe.

      Ladybug sounds better than Coccinelle for a super hero name. Have you ever tried to say Coccinelle? Also, I think I know why they don't call her that, in english it start with with the english version of the name of the first robin, you get that right? But Chat Noir is nice, so that's why they use it in french, or since Ladybug already has her name in english in french, they felt like Chat noir must have his name in french, and change it for the english dub. 2 french super heroes with english names, really? Not sure that would pass to the production, because again it's french, and in my country we're losing it because of all the immigrants that came over and don't want to learn it. Let's try to keep my language alive, thank you. We'll have Queen Bee, in season 2, so.

      . . .

      Yeah, that or it could be both or something else entirely. Either way, out of the two girls who are definitely getting a Miraculous, I'd like to see the one who returns it be Alya.

      Hi, please don't turn my suggesting a pun would suit Adrien's personality more into "Ellie hates the French language and thinks it should die", thank you. That isn't what I was saying in the slightest and I couldn't care less about her being called "Queen Bee", I think it's too predictable of a name. I shouldn't need to point out Cat Noir still has French in it, either.

      Back to the episode, though. Since it isn't meant to be filler, I can only guess this episode is showing us Hawk Moth's increasing desperation. Like he could easily have terminated the creepy baby's powers, but he didn't. He could and should have cut his losses, but he didn't. So it'll be interesting to see when Le Paon comes in.

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    • JasmineMermaid wrote:

      Maybe using the power evil is hurting/draining Nooroo. We also can't forget the Peacock will be in the picture soon, and she makes HM "look like a baby"

      Nooroo did vaguely imply that the Miraculous being used for evil might have a side-effect when he says they aren't meant to be used for evil. I mean you have to read "there's a side-effect" into that, but it's not an unreasonable thing to think.

      Her name's Le Paon, not the Peacock. I know that's what "Le Paon" translates into, but call her Le Paon. If you don't call Cat Noir "Black Cat" or Rena Rouge "Red Fox", there's no need to do that with Le Paon.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      . . .

      Yeah, that or it could be both or something else entirely. Either way, out of the two girls who are definitely getting a Miraculous, I'd like to see the one who returns it be Alya.

      Hi, please don't turn my suggesting a pun would suit Adrien's personality more into "Ellie hates the French language and thinks it should die", thank you. That isn't what I was saying in the slightest and I couldn't care less about her being called "Queen Bee", I think it's too predictable of a name. I shouldn't need to point out Cat Noir still has French in it, either.

      Back to the episode, though. Since it isn't meant to be filler, I can only guess this episode is showing us Hawk Moth's increasing desperation. Like he could easily have terminated the creepy baby's powers, but he didn't. He could and should have cut his losses, but he didn't. So it'll be interesting to see when Le Paon comes in.

      Sorry for losing my cool back there. But know this: I hate the ship, and I hate the girls's very questionnable antics at trying to get Adrien to notice Marinette, especially after their behavior in Gigantitan, so talking about it makes me feel quite negative, and I suppose you can relate to that, but when you keep having some negative feeling that won't go away when you keep being on the topic that brings you the negative feeling in the first place, you will find yourself being drained. It doesn't make me happy to write negative comments, after all their are my bad thoughts that I write, and even if it feels good to talk about it, having it coming back shoved to every now and then in your face gets annoying. We had quite the arguments about that ship and Marinette and Alya's behavior alongside the girls, and I've made my point, you've made yours, and now I feel that we could go some place else that won't get me mad enough that I don't feel like wanting to talk. When I talk about it so much in my arguments with you, it kinds of start to bring me down, because I think negatively during those times, and I get more moody because it seems a dead end getting out of it sometimes. I think you can understand that, when you talk about something you don't like so much all the time because someone brings it up kind of brings your mood down every time, no? Because you don't have positive feelings about it, just negative ones. So I would just like to not bring the Adrinette talk again until the next episode if there are moments in it please. Don't misunderstand here, I like we talk about it and give our opinions on it when a new episodes with scenes of it in there, but I also want to talk about other things without having it brought up every now and then, because I'm not in a good mood talking about something I don't like especially since I talked so much about it before that everyone gets it by now. Can we please frop romance until the next new episode please?

      Then again, unlike Adrien, Chloé and Marinette, Alya is not an only child. She has her little sisters that she babysitts, plus another sibling too. She might not be able to sneak off more easily than the others, plus if she's not there to film for the Ladyblog all the time because she's Rena Rouge all the time for the akuma, she won't be able to keep the suspicions off her back. She might have it more difficult to explain her absence to the others, so that's maybe why she would sit down on being Rena Rouge for a while.

      Sorry, but I think anyone who is french would be kind of mad that someone who speaks english would tell them that some french character made by french produced in France should have gone by their english name in the french dub because of some pun in english. We have some difficult times with our language back here because our gouvernment lacks a spine, and everyone gets pissed about it because our culture is dying a bit here, so, um, yeah. Sorry about that, I get it, but maybe not, told in the best way?? Is name in english pratically almost mean bad luck since they are still amny people who associate those 2 words together as bad luck even today. Not I though, when my cat will die, I'll get a full black one.

      That or it was just a break from the previous, more serious episodes with Riposte and Robostus. Must have some lighter episodes to not get so serious all the time so we won't be so tense all the time from all the things that just happened after the episodes? Robostus and Riposte where intense.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Sorry for losing my cool back there. But know this: I hate the ship, and I hate the girls's very questionnable antics at trying to get Adrien to notice Marinette, especially after their behavior in Gigantitan, so talking about it makes me feel quite negative, and I suppose you can relate to that, but when you keep having some negative feeling that won't go away when you keep being on the topic that brings you the negative feeling in the first place, you will find yourself being drained. It doesn't make me happy to write negative comments, after all their are my bad thoughts that I write, and even if it feels good to talk about it, having it coming back shoved to every now and then in your face gets annoying. We had quite the arguments about that ship and Marinette and Alya's behavior alongside the girls, and I've made my point, you've made yours, and now I feel that we could go some place else that won't get me mad enough that I don't feel like wanting to talk. When I talk about it so much in my arguments with you, it kinds of start to bring me down, because I think negatively during those times, and I get more moody because it seems a dead end getting out of it sometimes. I think you can understand that, when you talk about something you don't like so much all the time because someone brings it up kind of brings your mood down every time, no? Because you don't have positive feelings about it, just negative ones. So I would just like to not bring the Adrinette talk again until the next episode if there are moments in it please. Don't misunderstand here, I like we talk about it and give our opinions on it when a new episodes with scenes of it in there, but I also want to talk about other things without having it brought up every now and then, because I'm not in a good mood talking about something I don't like especially since I talked so much about it before that everyone gets it by now. Can we please frop romance until the next new episode please?

      Then again, unlike Adrien, Chloé and Marinette, Alya is not an only child. She has her little sisters that she babysitts, plus another sibling too. She might not be able to sneak off more easily than the others, plus if she's not there to film for the Ladyblog all the time because she's Rena Rouge all the time for the akuma, she won't be able to keep the suspicions off her back. She might have it more difficult to explain her absence to the others, so that's maybe why she would sit down on being Rena Rouge for a while.

      Sorry, but I think anyone who is french would be kind of mad that someone who speaks english would tell them that some french character made by french produced in France should have gone by their english name in the french dub because of some pun in english. We have some difficult times with our language back here because our gouvernment lacks a spine, and everyone gets pissed about it because our culture is dying a bit here, so, um, yeah. Sorry about that, I get it, but maybe not, told in the best way?? Is name in english pratically almost mean bad luck since they are still amny people who associate those 2 words together as bad luck even today. Not I though, when my cat will die, I'll get a full black one.

      That or it was just a break from the previous, more serious episodes with Riposte and Robostus. Must have some lighter episodes to not get so serious all the time so we won't be so tense all the time from all the things that just happened after the episodes? Robostus and Riposte where intense.

      Fair enough. I'm sorry, too. Just don't bring up how Adrien might have feelings for Kagami until that gets some teasing, yeah? The show's animated to the English script (which is stupid, but makes sense in the sense that the English dub is going to be the one aired the most but again, stupid), so that's why Adrien's reaction is the way it is. It's literally him being surprised Kagami is a girl.

      Well, she can still record as Rena Rouge, she just needs to claim the footage was sent in to her. If Cat Noir can pull out Chloé's bracelet, then Rena Rouge should be able to get her phone. I think Alya will put her blog first. She'd love the idea of being a superhero, I think, but since Ladybug and Cat Noir pretty much have everything handled, she wouldn't see a need for her to come in. Still, the fact that possibly both her and Chloé will start out with their identities known to someone is very interesting. Queen Bee I dearly hope actually does announce to all of Paris who she is like is implied (though she could be talking to herself), but Alya isn't getting out of this without Ladybug knowing her identity, I don't think, if she's the one to hand her Miraculous over. Though, if Chloé announces to all of Paris who she is, she might be the one to hand in her Miraculous and get it back so she can attempt to maintain a secret identity. Meh.

      Frankly I wasn't even thinking "it's the dub name they should have used it", I was thinking "it's a pun that can be understood in both languages and Cat Noir is a pungeon master so I'm surprised he didn't use it". It's an in-universe kind of surprise more than anything, but I think this conversation needs to end before it goes sour.

      Well, supposedly there's no filler episodes. So this one can't be just for comedy. Gotta be some point to the episode.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Fair enough. I'm sorry, too. Just don't bring up how Adrien might have feelings for Kagami until that gets some teasing, yeah? The show's animated to the English script (which is stupid, but makes sense in the sense that the English dub is going to be the one aired the most but again, stupid), so that's why Adrien's reaction is the way it is. It's literally him being surprised Kagami is a girl.

      Well, she can still record as Rena Rouge, she just needs to claim the footage was sent in to her. If Cat Noir can pull out Chloé's bracelet, then Rena Rouge should be able to get her phone. I think Alya will put her blog first. She'd love the idea of being a superhero, I think, but since Ladybug and Cat Noir pretty much have everything handled, she wouldn't see a need for her to come in. Still, the fact that possibly both her and Chloé will start out with their identities known to someone is very interesting. Queen Bee I dearly hope actually does announce to all of Paris who she is like is implied (though she could be talking to herself), but Alya isn't getting out of this without Ladybug knowing her identity, I don't think, if she's the one to hand her Miraculous over. Though, if Chloé announces to all of Paris who she is, she might be the one to hand in her Miraculous and get it back so she can attempt to maintain a secret identity. Meh.

      Frankly I wasn't even thinking "it's the dub name they should have used it", I was thinking "it's a pun that can be understood in both languages and Cat Noir is a pungeon master so I'm surprised he didn't use it". It's an in-universe kind of surprise more than anything, but I think this conversation needs to end before it goes sour.

      Well, supposedly there's no filler episodes. So this one can't be just for comedy. Gotta be some point to the episode.

      Deal! Thank you for understanding. And I agree with you that their reasons are stupid sometimes, like in Riposte with Kagami being mistaken for a boy or Ladybug praising Chat Noir but it's not in the french dub, hence why in french we thinks he finds her cute, since they all know she's a girl. And now enough with that thought until later episodes. :)

      She would do like Spider-Man? He has his webs to set the cameras and all that, what could she use? Ladybug and Chat Noir would chastise her for using her phone or flute instead of battling, no? I think that Chloé would be either in front of the mirror or Adrien if she says that line. Would be in her character to practise her speech, than brags about it to Adrien, since that means she can prove him that's she's nice as she's a super hero now maybe? We saw her practice in front of the mirror in Evillustrator and she also practiced her speech for Prince Ali in Princess Fragrance. And showing she's a super hero to Adrien first because he's her first friend, two because she want him to see that she's nice because she's a super hero and helps people like Ladybug maybe?

      I suppose so, but I think even with that reasonning it would have pissed off us frenchies anyway, or someone would have complained either way. It is a great pun, but they went with Chat Noir and decided to use the pun for the english dub, either way it's been used and not wasted. So there's that. Sorry about that again.

      Showing the Gorilla cares about Adrien like Nathalie does despite being so aloof all the time? Maybe it gives us a clue about how the gorilla will be akumatized later maybe? Not being there for Adrien will piss him off. 

      I wonder what's the point of using the trilogy of The Queen's fight if they don't do fillers in season 2 anymore, unless it's the only one we'll have, but introduced as a special later? I don't get their reasoning, I just get that I can't wait for these episodes to air already! I wonder if it will be the Chloé's redemption arc taht will features her as Queen Bee in all 3 episodes, with her being akumatized as Queen Wasp in the second episode?

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Deal! Thank you for understanding. And I agree with you that their reasons are stupid sometimes, like in Riposte with Kagami being mistaken for a boy or Ladybug praising Chat Noir but it's not in the french dub, hence why in french we thinks he finds her cute, since they all know she's a girl. And now enough with that thought until later episodes. :)

      She would do like Spider-Man? He has his webs to set the cameras and all that, what could she use? Ladybug and Chat Noir would chastise her for using her phone or flute instead of battling, no? I think that Chloé would be either in front of the mirror or Adrien if she says that line. Would be in her character to practise her speech, than brags about it to Adrien, since that means she can prove him that's she's nice as she's a super hero now maybe? We saw her practice in front of the mirror in Evillustrator and she also practiced her speech for Prince Ali in Princess Fragrance. And showing she's a super hero to Adrien first because he's her first friend, two because she want him to see that she's nice because she's a super hero and helps people like Ladybug maybe?

      I suppose so, but I think even with that reasonning it would have pissed off us frenchies anyway, or someone would have complained either way. It is a great pun, but they went with Chat Noir and decided to use the pun for the english dub, either way it's been used and not wasted. So there's that. Sorry about that again.

      Showing the Gorilla cares about Adrien like Nathalie does despite being so aloof all the time? Maybe it gives us a clue about how the gorilla will be akumatized later maybe? Not being there for Adrien will piss him off. 

      I wonder what's the point of using the trilogy of The Queen's fight if they don't do fillers in season 2 anymore, unless it's the only one we'll have, but introduced as a special later? I don't get their reasoning, I just get that I can't wait for these episodes to air already! I wonder if it will be the Chloé's redemption arc taht will features her as Queen Bee in all 3 episodes, with her being akumatized as Queen Wasp in the second episode?

      That's assuming Rena Rouge would be up in the fighting, rather than keeping out of sight like Volpina did. We did not see the real Volpina very often in that episode. The Volpina that handled the meteor, the Volpina that attacked Ladybug, the Volpina that went to Adrien's house- those were all illusions. If Rena Rouge has illusion powers like Volpina did, then she could fight without needing to actually be in the fight and record at least parts of the fight. Perfect alibi, wouldn't you agree?

      What Chloé says is :

      I am Chloé Bourgeois, and from now on, I'll be your new superhero: Queen Bee!

      Which sounds like an announcement, not something she's saying to Adrien. Like if she's gonna tell Adrien, she'd say something to the effect of "Adrikins, it's me, your best friend Chloé!"

      Ehhh.... then again. "Chat" Noir works in the sense that Cat Noir is very chatty.

      That's possible, but this is also the third time Hawk Moth has not been able to fully control his akuma. He's always been able to force them back on track (Jackady/Simon Says and Evillustrator), but Befana, Robostus, and now Gigantitan are different. Hawk Moth has had increasing difficulty in getting them to be entirely obedient to him. It's a pattern, a trend, since this is the third time out of seven episodes.

      I'm guessing the entire season is setting up for the three episodes. I mean, I can only guess they'll be the season finale. I don't think Chloé's gonna be redeemed by those episodes and I think it's going to take some time for Chloé to grow. I mean, I don't want her to just suddenly change after one or two events after at least one season of her being awful. It'd feel very abrupt. I still think her time bearing a Miraculous is going to be the thing that makes her change.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      That's assuming Rena Rouge would be up in the fighting, rather than keeping out of sight like Volpina did. We did not see the real Volpina very often in that episode. The Volpina that handled the meteor, the Volpina that attacked Ladybug, the Volpina that went to Adrien's house- those were all illusions. If Rena Rouge has illusion powers like Volpina did, then she could fight without needing to actually be in the fight and record at least parts of the fight. Perfect alibi, wouldn't you agree?

      What Chloé says is :

      I am Chloé Bourgeois, and from now on, I'll be your new superhero: Queen Bee!

      Which sounds like an announcement, not something she's saying to Adrien. Like if she's gonna tell Adrien, she'd say something to the effect of "Adrikins, it's me, your best friend Chloé!"

      Ehhh.... then again. "Chat" Noir works in the sense that Cat Noir is very chatty.

      That's possible, but this is also the third time Hawk Moth has not been able to fully control his akuma. He's always been able to force them back on track (Jackady/Simon Says and Evillustrator), but Befana, Robostus, and now Gigantitan are different. Hawk Moth has had increasing difficulty in getting them to be entirely obedient to him. It's a pattern, a trend, since this is the third time out of seven episodes.

      I'm guessing the entire season is setting up for the three episodes. I mean, I can only guess they'll be the season finale. I don't think Chloé's gonna be redeemed by those episodes and I think it's going to take some time for Chloé to grow. I mean, I don't want her to just suddenly change after one or two events after at least one season of her being awful. It'd feel very abrupt. I still think her time bearing a Miraculous is going to be the thing that makes her change.

      Well, that depends on what her powers will be. We have no idea right now, and since Lila was akumatized before seeing the real fox miraculous abilities, I doubt it will look like Volpina's powers.

      Maybe that's would be her being serious about becoming nice to Adrien, she doesn't always call him Adrikins, she does call him by his name when she is serious or upset, so maybe it's to show some of her growth? Hey, maybe she says that and she's not even in her suit, I bet Pollen would just laugh at her for that, I think I would prefer to see that now, that would be so hilarious.

      Befana just asked him to say it nicely with a please, and then she went on and obeyed his orders. She just wanted him to be polite, since she's the one doing all the work, although considering he gave her her powers, he could have also said that he could just take them away and find someone else if she wasn't happy. Markov is a robot, not a human, and Auguste is far too young to have any restrain or control whatsoever, so he went out of control and I think that since they were different from all the previous people, it's understadable that he couldn't have what he wanted with them. I wonder how it will go if he akumatizes Plagg, cause it looks like he got him, judging by the red little imp with the blue orb. Wonder how Adrien will fight.

      Good thing she'll have Pollen to help her then, she looks even more nice than Tikki. Maybe she'll act like a big sister or some kind of mom to Chloé?

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    • Has the English Dub been released yet?

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    • Apparently, this episode, "Gigantitan" did not have an English dub (due to not being dubbed yet, possibly).

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Well, that depends on what her powers will be. We have no idea right now, and since Lila was akumatized before seeing the real fox miraculous abilities, I doubt it will look like Volpina's powers.

      Maybe that's would be her being serious about becoming nice to Adrien, she doesn't always call him Adrikins, she does call him by his name when she is serious or upset, so maybe it's to show some of her growth? Hey, maybe she says that and she's not even in her suit, I bet Pollen would just laugh at her for that, I think I would prefer to see that now, that would be so hilarious.

      Befana just asked him to say it nicely with a please, and then she went on and obeyed his orders. She just wanted him to be polite, since she's the one doing all the work, although considering he gave her her powers, he could have also said that he could just take them away and find someone else if she wasn't happy. Markov is a robot, not a human, and Auguste is far too young to have any restrain or control whatsoever, so he went out of control and I think that since they were different from all the previous people, it's understadable that he couldn't have what he wanted with them. I wonder how it will go if he akumatizes Plagg, cause it looks like he got him, judging by the red little imp with the blue orb. Wonder how Adrien will fight.

      Good thing she'll have Pollen to help her then, she looks even more nice than Tikki. Maybe she'll act like a big sister or some kind of mom to Chloé?

      Yes, I'm still on the fence about it. Ladybug implies her powers stem from Lila being a liar, but fox-assoiciated powers would be illusions, psychic powers, and shapeshifting. When I sat down to think about it, while I'd love to see the Fox's powers be different, illusions are the most versatile of the lot. And I hate the shapeshifter idea as much as I hate the "Bee has healing powers" idea.

      I dunno xD she seems to be being dramatic, but either way, I think she'd address Adrien directly. I kind of want to see her just announce to all of Paris who he is and Cat Noir is stunned she just came out and said it, where Ladybug just facepalms. Like lessbereal here, Chloé loves attention and credit. Her mask could be just for decoration. And like, nobody really cares? They're just like "Chloé Borgeious? Yeah right". "No, really! Look, I'll prove it!" and then she can't get her mask off and has to be dragged off by Ladybug and Cat Noir. Reveal failure. Chloé failing to get the reaction she wants is entertaining.

      Well, that's kinda what I meant. He's had three akumas now that don't blindly follow him. Usually his akumas are pretty obedient or he can scare them into being obedient. Not so with those three. Man I wish "Gigantitan" would come out in English so I can watch it again and actually understand it... I try to only watch episodes once or twice before they come out here. "Riposte" was the exception, since I did the transcript for it.

      I'm not sure if that imp is Plagg. I don't really why people think it looks like Plagg. It's got slanty eyes and cute little fangs, but that's where their similarities end. There's one that looks similar to it, but with an antennae. It would be interesting to see if one akuma can akumatise two people. The ball could be their akumatised item, and we could finally see if removing the akumatised item for a period of time forces deakumatisation. So the two have to constantly trade off on the ball, if that's how it works.

      Possibly. I think Pollen is going to be kind of like how Chloé would be if she were nice? Like a spoiled sweet, regal personality. Probably has shades of haughtiness and energeticness still. That, or she'll be like an ideal teammate. Bright, cheerful, kind, and helpful, but never one for the spotlight. She likes sharing and she can be a little bossy where she needs to be and she gives credit where credit is due. Like Nooroo, Tikki, and Plagg, she's Chloé's voice of reason, her personal Jiminy Cricket. So she probably has traits that Chloé lacks. I think Trixx is the same way, as is Wayzz, though Wayzz and Master Fu seem to have a lot in common after all the years they've spent together.


      If Chloé's name doesn't have an accent on it, it's because I have to copy/paste the é onto the end of her name when I write it. Bah.

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    • Poor Rose/Tulip. Why couldn't Alya see it was a bad idea to give someone a codename that was the real name of a teammate?

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    • Luiz48 wrote:
      Poor Rose/Tulip. Why couldn't Alya see it was a bad idea to give someone a codename that was the real name of a teammate?

      For a "Whose On First?" scenario. When they were saying "Tulip" I thought it sounded similar to "Juleka", just to make things even sillier.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Luiz48 wrote:
      Poor Rose/Tulip. Why couldn't Alya see it was a bad idea to give someone a codename that was the real name of a teammate?
      For a "Whose On First?" scenario. When they were saying "Tulip" I thought it sounded similar to "Juleka", just to make things even sillier.

      For the entire scenario is was confused out of my mind.

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    • English version viewing time! I'm glad the English version kept Marinette and Alya doing the voices of people in the visualization of their plan. Alya's grunts for the bodyguard and Marinette romancing herself by voicing Adrien were particularly hilarious for me. I love when voice actors imitate other characters, and I'd love an episode where characters switched bodies without switching voices, though it would probably end up being the voices kept.

      Also, now with the information from "Sapotis" that maybe more than the thee confirmed teenagers will become superheroes, I'm glad we got to see Rose, Juleka, Mylène, and Alix in action for a large part of the episode. I doubt how possible it is to really development the circle of peers around Marinette and Adrien to make it feel right if any of them become Miraculous holders in the future. As of now, I don't believe there will ever be enough moments to strongly develop them if some or all of them get the twelve dormant Miraculouses. Despite my doubts before the season though, the show is still finding ways to keep characters relevant, from having akumatized villains relate very closely to them (like Max in "Robustus") to having minor yet distinct moments in episodes they don't play notable roles in (for example, Mylène and Nathaniel in "Despair Bear"). I appreciate that the show doesn't give up on characters past their akumatized focus episode, and while there's still an issue with too many characters and not enough time to develop a lot of them to their greatest potential, the effort to flesh out this world and these people Marinette sees very often impresses me.

      Also, watching this episode, it actually reminds me a lot of "Stormy Weather". Adrien doesn't talk until he's preparing to transform, and Alya and Marinette plan to catch Adrien's attention. Vincent and the bodyguard are in both episodes, Alya and Marinette's plan fails, and a little child is involved (though akumatized in this situation). I say this in a positive way. There is always the danger of a show reusing similar storylines, but in this case, I feel like it's more like coincidences. While we learn more about Hawk Moth's powers and Marinette's relationship with the nice female students, I really like the overarching silliness throughout the entire episode with the romantic scheme and the supervillain, and I think it's okay sometimes to lean towards that zone instead of having a more balanced episode.

      Special shout-out to Keith Silverstein's voice work and the dialogue for a clearly frustrated Hawk Moth. I have no doubt the French version's lines are just as funn, but as I'm an English speaker only (unfortunately), it's nice to hear the English version to be fully in on the jokes. So many wonderful quotes...

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    • I still need a good few .gifs of Hawk Moth going bananas in this episode, especially him banging his cane in frustration with his arm stuck out like that.

      I'm kinda glad I understand now what she says to Adrien at the end. I couldn't tell what was going on so it just looked like he didn't want to talk to her, but it was because she kept fumbling. I'm surprised Adrien, who knows how shy and flustered she gets according to "Riposte" didn't piece together what she meant, even if it was in the "friends" kind of way.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      I still need a good few .gifs of Hawk Moth going bananas in this episode, especially him banging his cane in frustration with his arm stuck out like that.

      I'm kinda glad I understand now what she says to Adrien at the end. I couldn't tell what was going on so it just looked like he didn't want to talk to her, but it was because she kept fumbling. I'm surprised Adrien, who knows how shy and flustered she gets according to "Riposte" didn't piece together what she meant, even if it was in the "friends" kind of way.

      Until Adrien and Marinette figure out the other is their crimefighting partner, we shouldn't be surprised by anything else they fail to figure out.

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