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  • This is the official discussion thread for the sixth released episode of Season 2, "Robustus".

    Post and share your thoughts on the episode here. You will not need to mark spoilers in this thread.

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    • From Mari and Fu conversation i think he says somethin like: "Must always keep his balance, for each action there is a reaction, for each fire there is a price to pay, if your robot friend had asked to become human someone would have lost his humanity in return."

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    • due to the whole context of the conversation, that's the reason why hm cant get the miraculous

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    • Seiun wrote:
      From Mari and Fu conversation i think he says somethin like: "Must always keep his balance, for each action there is a reaction, for each fire there is a price to pay, if your robot friend had asked to become human someone would have lost his humanity in return." 

      So what you're saying they're saying is... "Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's first law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only truth."

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    • Just started watching, can't understand a word of it, but oh my gosh is Markov adorable.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Seiun wrote:
      From Mari and Fu conversation i think he says somethin like: "Must always keep his balance, for each action there is a reaction, for each fire there is a price to pay, if your robot friend had asked to become human someone would have lost his humanity in return." 
      So what you're saying they're saying is... "Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's first law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only truth."

      Exaclty! The way Master Fu says it make it seems that universe is a whole new being and sentinent, that's why this "rule" thing exists

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    • I think he says that if hm got the earing and ring, the power would the "ultimate" and he could even bend the shapes of universe (rough)

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    • Right-o! I finished the episode, didn't understand pretty much any of it because I know maybe ten words in French.

      Thoughts time!

      I really want to see this in English or with English subtitles. This seems like a really, really good episode. I mean, Robostus is by far the most interesting villain- I don't think anyone's ever not immediately accepted Hawk Moth's bargain, Robostus came the closest by far to getting both Miraculouses, to the point Ladybug says something to Cat Noir I can't understand but I guess she says something about how good it's been working with him, and Robostus straight-up tried to kill Hawk Moth and it was awesome. This was also the first time where the akumatised object didn't need to be smashed, but it was shorted out. Lots of first in this episode. Was also the first time Ladybug threw her Lucky Charm and it wasn't magically whole again. It was just the harp strings, not the harp itself. Lyre? it has too manys strings for a lyre but it's way too small to be a harp. I wasn't in Orchestra, I wa in Band.

      And Markov is really, really, really, really cute. And I was right! He is the propeller-headed villain!

      And he's so cute!

      Like what multiple people wanted, there didn't seem to be a sign of the love square in this one, and I'm pleased to see Marinette/Ladybug is being nice again. She's been kind of mean the past few episodes, so this is very refreshing to see.

      Also, poor Cat Noir. He was not having a good day, the poor darling. Thrown about like a ragdoll, failing to land in any manner of grace, and getting stuck in awkward positions while it seems everyone ignores him. The poor thing. But man was it hilarious. 

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    • I think, if I can actually understand what is going on in the episode past what I can glean from the visuals, that this might be my new favourite episode. Certainly Season 2 is very enjoyable thus far.

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    • "So Max, what did you do this weekend?" 

      "Oh, I just created sentient life and changed the field of robotics forever. Nothing huge."

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    • S2 is doing fine, just the formula is getting ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh

      like every ep is the same, the plot only follows in just a few moments in the eps, missing lila tho

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    • Seiun wrote:
      S2 is doing fine, just the formula is getting ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh

      like every ep is the same, the plot only follows in just a few moments in the eps, missing lila tho

      Well, I don't know if they're the same. Some of them, like this one and "Prime Queen" follow the old formula, but "The Collector" and "Despair Bear" are more plot-heavy. This episode I think served to mess with Hawk Moth and advance the story a little more. This is only the 5th episode. Out of 26. Lila's supposed to appear at some point. Have some patience.

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    • So the holder of the Moth/Butterfly (can we say lepidopteran?) Miraculous has combat capabilities. Do you think all holders had a sword in their cane or it's something unique to Hawk Moth? The Cat Miraculous staff has certainly changed since the Ancient Chinese Cat Miraculous holder's simple wooden one (going by its appearance in the book).

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    • Man, this episode was kinda epic! Finally, we learn more about the Miraculouses, hopefully this means that the new powers will surely appear soon.

      P.S: Did Sabrina dye her hair in this episode? It sure looks different!

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    • I've just recently watched the episode and its true that the plots are getting more complicated, not to think that hawkmoth was also in a bit of a trouble. It is just like the 6th episode and it's already like this. I can't wait for Alya to come as a hero so does Chloe. This coming character Luka haha it't interesting this new ship" marika" but i hope it does not go to your head guys.. we are here to cheer for the love square which majority of us love but the love square must be tested sometimes. well it is all i can say for now and hehe I'm new here and season 2 is sailing smoothly 

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    • also the episode kind a reminds me one of Stephen Kings movie called Overdrive.

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    • "For what profit is it to a man if he gains the world and loses his own soul?" This Bible verse sums up Gabriel's goal for absolute power verses Fu's implied cost of it quite well.

      And it seems like he as Hawk Moth is having a harder time reining in his Akuma this season. Befana made him humiliate himself before she obeyed, Riposte ignored his orders and would have killed Adrien in the coffin had he not already gotten out, and Robostus straight-up attacked him in his own lair. Trained dogs can only tolerate being whipped for so long before they turn on their master, and it may be a matter of time before he faces an Akuma uprising.

      At least we know Hawk Moth's not defenseless. At bare minimum, he's got a sword in his cane ala John Steed. This kind of kills the "Miraculous tools are non-lethal" belief, though it also might be possible that a tool's nature changes based on the user (becoming more like actual lethal weapons when someone evil uses them).

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    • true

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    • Okay here is my theory after seeing the end of Robostus. We finally know what the "god-like" power does. It grants one wish. I think most people have deduced that Hawkmoth wants to bring his wife back - and I'm guessing that that is what he will wish for. I love where this story is going - if they make Adrien choose between his mother and doing what is right, I'd love to see what he would do. The catch that someone else would lose thier life in exchange to bring someone back has raised the stakes even higher. The question is: who would Hawkmoth choose to bring his wife back?

      This plot could go in so many directions and I am not complaining at all, a refreshing episode all in all.

      I posted this on the other Robostus discussion not realising that this one was active.

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    • "Grant a wish" is just the easiest way for Fu to describe having all the power to reshape reality like a god.

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    • Here is how the end conversation goes for those of you who haven't seen it translated:

      Marinette: There's something you never told me, master.

      Fu: What do you want to know?

      Marinette: What would happen if someone gets Chat Noir's ring and Ladybug's earrings?

      Fu: Then, the holder could use them at the same time and, with the help of a special spell, he would get the ultimate power that shapes reality!

      Marinette: There's an ultimate power...that shapes reality? How does it work, master?

      Fu: Well, to put it in simple words, it allows a wish to come true.

      Marinette: That's great! Why don't we use it? We could do amazing things! Like put an end to wars, eliminate poverty, beat Hawkmoth.

      Fu: Universe must keep its balance. For each action, there's a reaction. For each wish, there's a price to pay. If your robotic friend wished to be human - Someone would have lost their own humanity in exchange.

      Marinette: I didn't think about it.

      Fu: That's why Ladybug and Chat Noir must never loose their jewellery. It's the balance of the Universe that's at stake.

      Marinette: I won't let anyone lay their hands on the miraculous, especially not Hawkmoth. I swear!

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    • Maetch wrote:
      "For what profit is it to a man if he gains the world and loses his own soul?" This Bible verse sums up Gabriel's goal for absolute power verses Fu's implied cost of it quite well.

      And it seems like he as Hawk Moth is having a harder time reining in his Akuma this season. Befana made him humiliate himself before she obeyed, Riposte ignored his orders and would have killed Adrien in the coffin had he not already gotten out, and Robostus straight-up attacked him in his own lair. Trained dogs can only tolerate being whipped for so long before they turn on their master, and it may be a matter of time before he faces an Akuma uprising.

      At least we know Hawk Moth's not defenseless. At bare minimum, he's got a sword in his cane ala John Steed. This kind of kills the "Miraculous tools are non-lethal" belief, though it also might be possible that a tool's nature changes based on the user (becoming more like actual lethal weapons when someone evil uses them).

      Mmmh. Maybe we'll get that "Akumas using their powers for good" thing you've been wanting in "Day of Heroes" instead of being a permanate affair.

      It is very strange that the cane is a legitimate weapon- this isn't shown in the Book at all that we've seen.

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    • Slabcity wrote:
      Here is how the end conversation goes for those of you who haven't seen it translated:

      Marinette: There's something you never told me, master.

      Fu: What do you want to know?

      Marinette: What would happen if someone gets Chat Noir's ring and Ladybug's earrings?

      Fu: Then, the holder could use them at the same time and, with the help of a special spell, he would get the ultimate power that shapes reality!

      Marinette: There's an ultimate power...that shapes reality? How does it work, master?

      Fu: Well, to put it in simple words, it allows a wish to come true.

      Marinette: That's great! Why don't we use it? We could do amazing things! Like put an end to wars, eliminate poverty, beat Hawkmoth.

      Fu: Universe must keep its balance. For each action, there's a reaction. For each wish, there's a price to pay. If your robotic friend wished to be human - Someone would have lost their own humanity in exchange.

      Marinette: I didn't think about it.

      Fu: That's why Ladybug and Chat Noir must never lose their jewellery. It's the balance of the Universe that's at stake.

      Marinette: I won't let anyone lay their hands on the miraculous, especially not Hawkmoth. I swear!

      Merci!

      I hope Marinette actually tells Cat Noir this, it seems very important for him to know.

      I love that the power can be summarised as both Equivilant Exchange and the Dragon Balls.

      I'm not entirely sure if Hawk Moth's goals relate to his missing wife or not, but I wonder how wishing for the return of someone who is missing (not dead, but missing) had returned. Would someone else go missing in exchange? Someone like Adrien?

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    • Maetch wrote:
      "For what profit is it to a man if he gains the world and loses his own soul?" This Bible verse sums up Gabriel's goal for absolute power verses Fu's implied cost of it quite well.

      And it seems like he as Hawk Moth is having a harder time reining in his Akuma this season. Befana made him humiliate himself before she obeyed, Riposte ignored his orders and would have killed Adrien in the coffin had he not already gotten out, and Robostus straight-up attacked him in his own lair. Trained dogs can only tolerate being whipped for so long before they turn on their master, and it may be a matter of time before he faces an Akuma uprising.

      At least we know Hawk Moth's not defenseless. At bare minimum, he's got a sword in his cane ala John Steed. This kind of kills the "Miraculous tools are non-lethal" belief, though it also might be possible that a tool's nature changes based on the user (becoming more like actual lethal weapons when someone evil uses them).

      Nice use of a Bible verse! The whole series makes me wonder about that. It seems Hawk Moth's drive to undo the past is causing him to destroy the present. So instead of moving forward and healing, and investing in the life of his son, he destroys everything in his mad effort to rewrite history. He's almost become less human. If I was to tie him to another character I'd match him with Meet the Robinson's Bowler Hat Guy. Hawk Moth might have "noble" motives, but his actions are unacceptable. It's very nice that those actions are beginning to come back on his head. Unfortunately, it looks like he isn't going to change anytime soon.

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    • To be fair, the verse was also referenced in one of the Castlevania video games, but it fits here as well.

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    • I really wish someone would bring up how amazing Max was in this episode. He was kidnapped by his own creation/friend and was forced to watch while Markov tried to destroy Paris, Ladybug, and Cat Noir. I really like how Max's character is growing in this season, particularly in this episode and La Befana, where he tried to protect Marinette and was turned into coal. In this episode he also risked his life to save Ladybug and Cat. I really like that his character is becoming stronger--I'm really happy that all of the students are beginning to help out. I wonder if this is setting up the final release of all those mini-kwamis...

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    • Lightbearer Storycraft wrote:
      I really wish someone would bring up how amazing Max was in this episode. He was kidnapped by his own creation/friend and was forced to watch while Markov tried to destroy Paris, Ladybug, and Cat Noir. I really like how Max's character is growing in this season, particularly in this episode and La Befana, where he tried to protect Marinette and was turned into coal. In this episode he also risked his life to save Ladybug and Cat. I really like that his character is becoming stronger--I'm really happy that all of the students are beginning to help out. I wonder if this is setting up the final release of all those mini-kwamis...

      I really kinda hope they don't hadn out any more Miraculouses, but let their classmates continue to be amazing in their own way without them. There's already way too many of them I think. But that's just personal preference. There was a scene where I think Tikki and Marinette thought Max had a kwami with him, but I can't understand French so I can't say if that's what happened for sure.

      To be sure, Max is getting more important and without him, Ladybug and Cat Noir would no longer be Ladybug and Cat Noir. I think it'd be nice to see episodes like this, where people indirectly thank Ladybug and Cat Noir for saving them by rescuing them in turn. Robostus's big mech is smilar to Max's robot from "Gamer", now I think about it.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      I really kinda hope they don't hadn out any more Miraculouses, but let their classmates continue to be amazing in their own way without them. There's already way too many of them I think. But that's just personal preference. There was a scene where I think Tikki and Marinette thought Max had a kwami with him, but I can't understand French so I can't say if that's what happened for sure.
      To be sure, Max is getting more important and without him, Ladybug and Cat Noir would no longer be Ladybug and Cat Noir. I think it'd be nice to see episodes like this, where people indirectly thank Ladybug and Cat Noir for saving them by rescuing them in turn. Robostus's big mech is smilar to Max's robot from "Gamer", now I think about it.

      I noticed that too! I think that was done on purpose. It shows that Max has gotten over his Gamer thing and is now seeing things from another perspective. He's seeing how much damage can be done when you let your emotions run away with you. I really like that. I also liked the little exchange Max/Ladybug had when he was wondering if he should restart Markov. Ladybug urged him to forgive and move on. I think this is my favorite episode of the ones I've seen so far. 

      Honsetly, I'm not thrilled about the multiple kwami release in the future either but I know it's going to happen so I'm looking for clues. I was surprised when I found out the other kids would get Miraculous. It seemed too obvious. All of these superheroes going to the same school? Someone is going to find out. I really hope there's going to be a huge villain to warrant that much fire power.Otherwise it'll just be like bringing the Hulk to a routine cop call. Too much of a good thing.

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    • Did anyone else notice that the first thing Nathaniel did after seeing Markov was start drawing him? I'm an artist; I can relate. That was funny to me.

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    • Lightbearer Storycraft wrote:

      I noticed that too! I think that was done on purpose. It shows that Max has gotten over his Gamer thing and is now seeing things from another perspective. He's seeing how much damage can be done when you let your emotions run away with you. I really like that. I also liked the little exchange Max/Ladybug had when he was wondering if he should restart Markov. Ladybug urged him to forgive and move on. I think this is my favorite episode of the ones I've seen so far. 

      Honsetly, I'm not thrilled about the multiple kwami release in the future either but I know it's going to happen so I'm looking for clues. I was surprised when I found out the other kids would get Miraculous. It seemed too obvious. All of these superheroes going to the same school? Someone is going to find out. I really hope there's going to be a huge villain to warrant that much fire power.Otherwise it'll just be like bringing the Hulk to a routine cop call. Too much of a good thing.

      I can't understand the French so I just have to go on the visuals for what happened.

      Was it actually confirmed everyone in the class would be getting Miraculouses? Or just the three who won't help out that much unless desperately needed? I know people suspect the girls will get them because of one of the purikura-esque shots from the opening, but that's just the girls and with the lack of a Rabbit Kwami, it seems unlikely to me.

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    • I saw this one (without subs), and honestly, it's one of my faves so far. I'm thankful to get a break from a love square-heavy moment within an episode, but in turn, we got a cute but impressively powerful villain, an episode to shine better light on Max, akumatization caused by Ms. Mendeleiev and Mr. Damocles of all people, Hawk Moth revealing more of his power and with secreat weapon in his cane, Hawk Moth getting turned against entirely by his villain, the explanation on the two-sided coin nature of the wish with the Ladybug and Cat Miraculous, mutilpie character cameos (like Xavier, of all people)... To put it mildly, this episode included a lot, but it was a lot of fun and excitement.

      Honing in on Markov and Max, I like how there characters interacted with each other and everything else. Markov is so adorable, and it's hard not to feel really sad for him when he's put away. I was literally making "ohhhh..." sounds of sympathy when Markov was upset. He better show up again, because he was a sweet robot and a good pal to his master Max. Max really cares for his creation, basically his pet and companion, and I like he seems hesitant to turn Markov back on after the robot is de-akumatized, worried about what will happen. His relationship with Marinette is awesome in this episode is wonderful too, suggesting the two have become better friends from the events of "Gamer". Even him getting involved and helping stop the heroes' Miraculouses getting stolen is outstanding. I'm still on the boat of not wanting the rest of Marinette's class to get Miraculouses, although I'm opening for an AU where they do. However, if we didn't know who were getting them this season, I would argue that this made Max on similar lines as Chloé from "Despair Bear", both putting their lives at risk to stop a majorly fatal moment.

      I appreciate the plot expansion in this episode too, someone I hoped for but didn't expect in such a huge way from this episode. We didn't see Hawk Moth de-akumatized his own villain after being betrayed, so that's still a mystery for now, but I love showing that he is a competent fighter when needed be. I mean, the dude fought against his own missles – why on earth is he storing them there? – and he revealed that his weapon is truly a sword, the weapon being stored in a cane-like sheath. This guy might prefer to be a passive spectator controlling minions, but at least we know that he can fight back whenever he finds himself needing to do it. Also, I appreciate the clause to the wish-granting ability of combining the two most powerful Miraculouses. It seems like a trade-off system indeed: if someone wants to be human, someone loses their humanity. If someone wishes for someone to come back, someone else is lost (if this is Hawk Moth's exact wish, this could be a problem). Whatever Hawk Moth's wish is, it's going to have negative consequences, and we don't know if he was able to understand the book or learn from Nooroo of this. So, naturally, I want him to succeed in making his wish so he can end up causing a major consequence that impacts him greatly. For example, if his wish is getting Mrs. Agreste back, one has to fear who would be lost for his transaction...

      Also, can we get a mini figure playset of Tikki and Wayzz having tea or a miniature table with tiny objects? That was too adorable for its own good.

      I would definitely call this one of my faves this season. I admit, I need to watch "The Befana" and "Riposte", as I've been too busy to watch them yet, but I'm thankful for the shake-up of Marinette not being involved with the akumatized (or partially, on can argue), Hawk Moth not being on top of his villain for once, and a single non-destined-for-Miraculous student showing that Marinette's class, together or only one of them, are fantastic helpers to the heroes.

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    • I really enjoyed this episode too. I adore Max and Markov's friendship, it was so sweet.

      I also like the part where Marinette stood up for Max and went to speak with Mr. Damoccles in regards to bring Markov back. That was very considerate and kind of Marinette for doing that for a friend.

      I also adore little Markov itself, he's such a cute little creature and I love his personality and whimsical nature, despite being a robot. His abilities as Robostus is quite cool too and he definitely had an effective plan. Robostus was very close in relinquishing Ladybug's and Cat Noir's miraculous but give credit to Max for saving them.

      It was very shocking that Robostus was sufficiently smart to outflank Hawk Moth, that was astounding however very startling in the meantime. In any case, it's incredible to realize that Hawk Moth has an expansion with his weapon, in this manner his cane turning into a sword.

      I likewise liked the little scene where Tikki and Wayzz were hosting a tea get-together, that was extremely adorable. What's more, I'm exceptionally upbeat that Marinette and Master Fu got the opportunity to collaborate and meet each other, once more. Realize that Master Fu has a digital copy of the Miraculous book, he would now be able to decipher the codes for Marinette and Adrien to achieve new powers.

      Overall, what an awesome episode and it felt great to have a little break with the romantic scenes to concentrate on an alternate kind of occasion.

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    • oh yeah

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    • So Adrien knows Morse, he said he knew many languages, so he must not be limited to chinese, morse, english/french, he might know more. So cool! And Ladybug still doesn't look impressed by his talent.

      Hawk Moth fighting, what a rough day for him. But it's nice that he won't go down easily if he must face Ladybug and Chat Noir face to face.

      So if Hawk Moth wants to bring his wife back, he might at the cost of Adrien? Because I think that's how the law should work, balance that while you get one of your loved ones back, another one of your loved one must die. So that would be Adrien. Maybe. Would be sad.

      Markov is the smallest villain, the first one not human and the one who pretty much defeated the heroes, Max saving them is pratically what prevented Hawk Moth to get the miraculouses. He's so cute.

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    • Tansyflower wrote:
      I saw this one (without subs), and honestly, it's one of my faves so far. I'm thankful to get a break from a love square-heavy moment within an episode, but in turn, we got a cute but impressively powerful villain, an episode to shine better light on Max, akumatization caused by Ms. Mendeleiev and Mr. Damocles of all people, Hawk Moth revealing more of his power and with secreat weapon in his cane, Hawk Moth getting turned against entirely by his villain, the explanation on the two-sided coin nature of the wish with the Ladybug and Cat Miraculous, mutilpie character cameos (like Xavier, of all people)... To put it mildly, this episode included a lot, but it was a lot of fun and excitement.

      Honing in on Markov and Max, I like how there characters interacted with each other and everything else. Markov is so adorable, and it's hard not to feel really sad for him when he's put away. I was literally making "ohhhh..." sounds of sympathy when Markov was upset. He better show up again, because he was a sweet robot and a good pal to his master Max. Max really cares for his creation, basically his pet and companion, and I like he seems hesitant to turn Markov back on after the robot is de-akumatized, worried about what will happen. His relationship with Marinette is awesome in this episode is wonderful too, suggesting the two have become better friends from the events of "Gamer". Even him getting involved and helping stop the heroes' Miraculouses getting stolen is outstanding. I'm still on the boat of not wanting the rest of Marinette's class to get Miraculouses, although I'm opening for an AU where they do. However, if we didn't know who were getting them this season, I would argue that this made Max on similar lines as Chloé from "Despair Bear", both putting their lives at risk to stop a majorly fatal moment.

      I appreciate the plot expansion in this episode too, someone I hoped for but didn't expect in such a huge way from this episode. We didn't see Hawk Moth de-akumatized his own villain after being betrayed, so that's still a mystery for now, but I love showing that he is a competent fighter when needed be. I mean, the dude fought against his own missles – why on earth is he storing them there? – and he revealed that his weapon is truly a sword, the weapon being stored in a cane-like sheath. This guy might prefer to be a passive spectator controlling minions, but at least we know that he can fight back whenever he finds himself needing to do it. Also, I appreciate the clause to the wish-granting ability of combining the two most powerful Miraculouses. It seems like a trade-off system indeed: if someone wants to be human, someone loses their humanity. If someone wishes for someone to come back, someone else is lost (if this is Hawk Moth's exact wish, this could be a problem). Whatever Hawk Moth's wish is, it's going to have negative consequences, and we don't know if he was able to understand the book or learn from Nooroo of this. So, naturally, I want him to succeed in making his wish so he can end up causing a major consequence that impacts him greatly. For example, if his wish is getting Mrs. Agreste back, one has to fear who would be lost for his transaction...

      Also, can we get a mini figure playset of Tikki and Wayzz having tea or a miniature table with tiny objects? That was too adorable for its own good.

      I would definitely call this one of my faves this season. I admit, I need to watch "The Befana" and "Riposte", as I've been too busy to watch them yet, but I'm thankful for the shake-up of Marinette not being involved with the akumatized (or partially, on can argue), Hawk Moth not being on top of his villain for once, and a single non-destined-for-Miraculous student showing that Marinette's class, together or only one of them, are fantastic helpers to the heroes.

      I feel the same way- I really love this episode just from what I could see, even if I couldn't understand anything that wasn't conveyed in expressions, body language, or tone.

      Markov is so cute I melted a little, and Max seems like he'll be less obnoxious in this episode than I tend to find Max, whick might possibly relate to his Urkle-like English voice. I also enjoyed the parallels between "The Gamer" and "Robostus", where both of them turned into giant mechs that Cat Noir destroys with Cataclysm. Like creator, like creation. I dunno if what Max stopped was exactly fatal, but it was a certainly dangerous situation. Speaking of, I feel like Cat Noir and Ladybug are getting more and more accustomed to battle and saving people. Their teamwork is getting more and more seamless as the episodes wear on and I love that.

      If.... Mrs Agreste is Le Paon, maybe that's the thing he lost- sure he got her back physically, but she herself, her persoanlity, is still lost. I'm still not a fan of her being Le Paon, but that outlook does make it a little more interesting than her being evil, too. It would also explain why he'd be afraid of her- he did this to her, after all. I wonder why the Cane is a sword, but the other weapons we see aren't actual weapons. They're a baton, a yo-yo, and a flute. While all of them can be used for hitting, any solid object can be used as such. So are there tricks that make the others into proper weapons? Or is it just something the Moth Miraculous has because it's not normally meant for actual combat, but more master control? Or is it, like suggested above, a result of the Miraculous being used for evil? Or, and this is what I think is the most likely, is it something that is an addition to it, like how Jeanne de Arc's Ladybug has a spear and La Coccinelle has a rapier as part of their costumes?

      This episode really has a lot of cute stuff in it, doesn't it? Markov/Robostus and the tea scene of cuteness.

      I'd love more of that- more of the civilians stepping up to prove that they don't need superpowers to be amazing.

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    • So, if the the translation is correct, it seems we have an explanation as to why Hawk Moth needs the spellbook. And I have to agree with Thearomalady, it would be an interesting twist if Hawk Moth succeeds in his plan of bringing back his wife, only at the cost of her humanity or what not. While i'm equally supportive of both theories, just why would Hawk Moth have any sort of reason to follow/work for/be afraid of Peacock if she's Nathalie? It doesn't make much sense to me. 

      Regardless, even if I have to suffice for the french version for now, this might just be my favourite episode so far. I mean, Markov, the story progression, Markov, Max's development, Markov, Hawk Moth getting betrayed and having to fight for once, Markov...you see what i'm playing at. 

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    • DarkClaw3 wrote:
      So, if the the translation is correct, it seems we have an explanation as to why Hawk Moth needs the spellbook. And I have to agree with Thearomalady, it would be an interesting twist if Hawk Moth succeeds in his plan of bringing back his wife, only at the cost of her humanity or what not. While i'm equally supportive of both theories, just why would Hawk Moth have any sort of reason to follow/work for/be afraid of Peacock if she's Nathalie? It doesn't make much sense to me. 

      Regardless, even if I have to suffice for the french version for now, this might just be my favourite episode so far. I mean, Markov, the story progression, Markov, Max's development, Markov, Hawk Moth getting betrayed and having to fight for once, Markov...you see what i'm playing at. 

      Thank you kindly! I quite agree about Nathalie. I think he would suspect Nathalie, too, if that Miraculous in the safe is the real deal. Then again, I'm nearly positive that the Miraculous in the safe is just a thing from Gabriel's collection he either gave to his wife or wanted to but never could. Either Madame Agreste has the real one, or Madame Bourgeois does, and the latter got it from the former. I'm as certain the one in the safe is a fake as I was that Gabriel is Hawk Moth prior to "The Collector" airing. I think if that one in the safe isn't the real one, I don't think Nathalie can be Le Paon.

      Yes, quite so. It seems this episode is going to be very well-received. Three of us on this page at least agree that it's the best one so far. It is one of the more drama-heavy ones, and "Timebreaker" is another one that people like, likely for the same reason.

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    • Those missile launchers in Hawk Moth's lair are Chekov's Guns just waiting to go off, and I've a feeling that it's going to be Hawk Moth himself who ends up on the receiving end of them when Ladybug and Chat finally corner him.

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    • Maetch wrote:
      Those missile launchers in Hawk Moth's lair are Chekov's Guns just waiting to go off, and I've a feeling that it's going to be Hawk Moth himself who ends up on the receiving end of them when Ladybug and Chat finally corner him.

      The manor might be destroyed, depending on where it is. It can't be under the house, because it has quite a high window even though it's under the ground floor. But I'm not wholly sure where it is.

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    • DarkClaw3 wrote:
      So, if the the translation is correct, it seems we have an explanation as to why Hawk Moth needs the spellbook. And I have to agree with Thearomalady, it would be an interesting twist if Hawk Moth succeeds in his plan of bringing back his wife, only at the cost of her humanity or what not.

      If I understood correctly, you only lose your humanity if nonhuman wishes to be human. With that logic, what will happen if Gabriel gets the both miraculouses, will depent about that what happened to his wife.

      Is she is missing: someone else will go missing

      if she and Gabriel break up and she left: Someone elses family will be destroyed because of lack of love

      If she is dead: someone else will die.

      Am I a terrible person if I kinda hope that Adrien will be the one who suffers from his father's wish? At this moment it looks like Gabriel is ready to do anything to get his wife back, but if it means he will lose his only son, could he or Mama Agreste ever live with the consequences?

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      The manor might be destroyed, depending on where it is. It can't be under the house, because it has quite a high window even though it's under the ground floor. But I'm not wholly sure where it is.

      In Volpina, we saw Hawkmoth teleporting about. Of course that wasn't really him teleporting, it was an illusion, but perhaps that is one of his powers? That lift that he enters goes downwards, then comes back upwards into his lair.

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    • Ok, can we just talk about how Adrien kept helicoptering away? As cute as it was it as strange to.

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    • let's hold on thoughts til the next episode

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    • "Granting a wish" is just Fu explaining the power to reshape all of reality in a way that Marinette (and the kids watching) can easily understand. I mean, being able to both create and destroy at will is pretty standard for gods, and it's clear Gabriel wants to be a god for reasons as of yet unknown. He no doubt cares nothing about the cost he's going to have to pay for it, which may yet come back to bite him.

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    • Episodely reminder to always watch the episode when it airs where you live~

      im never going to stop saying that

      Ok, this episode is definitly my favorite one. And Robostus is my favorite akuma. Markov is adorable even if I think that making an advanced robot like that might be too much for Max, maybe magic was used to make him? Either way, before we move on to Robostus' power, lets talk about Robostus' actions. It seems like they are getting really into plot this season, since Robostus did things that other akumas didn't; almost regretted their decision (really, if it wasn't by Cat Noir in the first time, I think he would have removed his own akuma), managed to stop Ladybug's plan by stealing her Lucky Charm, the akuma was released in a different way than just destroying the object, and more importantly- fought Hawk Moth, and had an actual small talk with him.

      Apparently Hawk Moth has guns in his lair and can go into AAAAAAAA mode. By the way, who is the voice talking when AAAAAAA mode is activated? Is it Natalie? Might be usefull.

      And, apparently Hawk Moth's wand  has a dagger in it?? I thought it could already be used as a sword but eeh. Also, we learned about what would be the power of a Combined Catbug Miraculous Holder. I really liked this episode.

      Now into the power. His power is very usefull. Right next to the Pupeteer, we see that Robostus was one of the most dangerous akumas. Even in a not very technollogical city like Paris, Robostus could already take control of all electronic devices (and also helicopters, apparently). So, in Paris, Robostus could already be OP even when Paris isn't the most modern city ever.

      Now imagine having Robostus' powes in a place like, lets say, Tokyo. Yeah...

      By the way, Robostus was able to take control of all vehiles and basically anything that needs energy in some way. Including those electronic stairs thing, which he used to annoy people.

      Can you imagine what happened to people inside elevators that time?

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    • I don't know uh send them down to their doom.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Mmmh. Maybe we'll get that "Akumas using their powers for good" thing you've been wanting in "Day of Heroes" instead of being a permanate affair.

      Even if just for one episode, I want to see the Akuma doing what they were originally made to do before Hawk Moth twisted their purpose up.

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    • More people should be talking about Sabrina's new hair
      Sabrinahair
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    • CalimTheCrystalGem wrote:
      Episodely reminder to always watch the episode when it airs where you live~

      im never going to stop saying that

      Ok, this episode is definitly my favorite one. And Robostus is my favorite akuma. Markov is adorable even if I think that making an advanced robot like that might be too much for Max, maybe magic was used to make him? Either way, before we move on to Robostus' power, lets talk about Robostus' actions. It seems like they are getting really into plot this season, since Robostus did things that other akumas didn't; almost regretted their decision (really, if it wasn't by Cat Noir in the first time, I think he would have removed his own akuma), managed to stop Ladybug's plan by stealing her Lucky Charm, the akuma was released in a different way than just destroying the object, and more importantly- fought Hawk Moth, and had an actual small talk with him.

      Apparently Hawk Moth has guns in his lair and can go into AAAAAAAA mode. By the way, who is the voice talking when AAAAAAA mode is activated? Is it Natalie? Might be usefull.

      And, apparently Hawk Moth's wand  has a dagger in it?? I thought it could already be used as a sword but eeh. Also, we learned about what would be the power of a Combined Catbug Miraculous Holder. I really liked this episode.

      Now into the power. His power is very usefull. Right next to the Pupeteer, we see that Robostus was one of the most dangerous akumas. Even in a not very technollogical city like Paris, Robostus could already take control of all electronic devices (and also helicopters, apparently). So, in Paris, Robostus could already be OP even when Paris isn't the most modern city ever.

      Now imagine having Robostus' powes in a place like, lets say, Tokyo. Yeah...

      By the way, Robostus was able to take control of all vehiles and basically anything that needs energy in some way. Including those electronic stairs thing, which he used to annoy people.

      Can you imagine what happened to people inside elevators that time?

      Considering how much I watched Season 1, that will not be an issue for me at any rate, ha.

      I must vehmently disagree that akumas can be removed by the bearer's volition. It's a safety hazard if that's the case. I cannot express enough that when anyone thinks of how the Moth's powers work, they must think about how it would work if used properly. If a hero wills the akuma away in the middle of battle (for any number of reasons), they'll die. It makes no earthly sense for it to be willed away. But they can be composed and think straight if they want to, as demonstrated with Evillustrator and now Robostus.

      I definitely need more of Robostus, but "Day of Heroes" is uninterested in bringing back the cool villains like Timebreaker, Pharaoh, and Robostus. Just ones like Reflekta and Princess Fragrance and Riposte.

      Robostus probably would have won even with Max's interference if this were in Tokyo.

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    • I definitely need more of Robostus, but "Day of Heroes" is uninterested in bringing back the cool villains like Timebreaker, Pharaoh, and Robostus. Just ones like Reflekta and Princess Fragrance and Riposte.

      Honestly, as much as I like Robostus, from a story perspective, it doesn't really make any sense for him to return. That is to say, Hawk Moth is NEVER going to risk akumatizing him again. 

      Can't disagree that some of the choices regarding who will be coming back are lame, though. I just want to see Mime and Stoneheart again. 

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    • DarkClaw3 wrote:
      Honestly, as much as I like Robostus, from a story perspective, it doesn't really make any sense for him to return. That is to say, Hawk Moth is NEVER going to risk akumatizing him again. 

      Can't disagree that some of the choices regarding who will be coming back are lame, though. I just want to see Mime and Stoneheart again. 

      Yeah, unless someone else who doesn't care about Robostus' rebellious potential and extremely-dangerous powers has the Moth Miraculous and re-akumatizes him, alas, I dont' think Hawk Moth would ever want to place trust in a robot like that again. At the least he probably learned not to explain how the combined Miraculouses can grant a wish, as any akumatized villain might decide to turn on him if they have a particular wish they want to be granted.

      I wonder how accurate all of the villains displayed on "The Heroes' Day" are, or if there will be more or less of them. Unless Gabriel loses his Miraculous and gets akumatized again, I don't know how the Collector returning would be possible, especially since Hawk Moth is also pictured. Maybe we'll get more of the better villains back in another event, or this image isn't reflecting the true line-up.

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    • Tansyflower wrote:
      DarkClaw3 wrote:
      Honestly, as much as I like Robostus, from a story perspective, it doesn't really make any sense for him to return. That is to say, Hawk Moth is NEVER going to risk akumatizing him again. 

      Can't disagree that some of the choices regarding who will be coming back are lame, though. I just want to see Mime and Stoneheart again. 

      Yeah, unless someone else who doesn't care about Robostus' rebellious potential and extremely-dangerous powers has the Moth Miraculous and re-akumatizes him, alas, I dont' think Hawk Moth would ever want to place trust in a robot like that again. At the least he probably learned not to explain how the combined Miraculouses can grant a wish, as any akumatized villain might decide to turn on him if they have a particular wish they want to be granted.

      I wonder how accurate all of the villains displayed on "The Heroes' Day" are, or if there will be more or less of them. Unless Gabriel loses his Miraculous and gets akumatized again, I don't know how the Collector returning would be possible, especially since Hawk Moth is also pictured. Maybe we'll get more of the better villains back in another event, or this image isn't reflecting the true line-up.

      Well, of course, but still- I'm not impressed with the Day of Heroes lineup.

      That was a dumb move of his, explaining like that.

      I'm of the opinion none of them are real akumas, but created as a product of Le Paon's Miraculous. She is right in the middle of all the villains, after all. There are seven villains on either side of her, including Hawk Moth. To me, that's very telling. Especially because the fourteen villains are arranged so each side is a mirror of each other. In teh far back, two large villains. Next, there's Darkblade, Princess Fragrance, Hawk Moth, and Horrificator in a very neat line. Le Paon is on her own in the next row. The next row has the mermaid villain, the Collector, what I assume is Guitar Villain even though he looks really odd, Prime Queen, Reflekta, and Troublemaker, and then in the very front, Riposte and the black and red villain. The sides are oddly set up evenly, with Le Paon in the third row of five. I think these "akumas" are her creation.

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    • The Collector and Hawk Moth appearing in the same image is the same thing as having Marinette and Adrien appear on various promo images in both normal and hero forms: it just looks cool but doesn't mean all four are separate people.

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    • Maetch wrote:
      The Collector and Hawk Moth appearing in the same image is the same thing as having Marinette and Adrien appear on various promo images in both normal and hero forms: it just looks cool but doesn't mean all four are separate people.

      As far as we know, this isn't the case. The poster indicates that Collector will appear as one of the returning akumatized villains, which both Hawk Moth and Peacock are behind and controlling. If it were like Marinette and Ladybug both appearing on artwork, the other villains wouldn't be there, and the poster wouldn't exist to tells us who is going to come back for the special. 

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    • Thearomalady wrote: Just started watching, can't understand a word of it, but oh my gosh is Markov adorable.

      I honestly don’t care in the slightest about in-depth discussions of the episode. I just wanted to see how many people would say that.

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    • I watched the English version. I wasn't sure how the English version would choose Markov's voice, but I really like it! I was also pleased that Todd Habberkorn voiced the few lines from Xavier. I get why people don't like the English dub because there are changes or voice changes that are odd or questionable. However, as someone who likes the English dub, although willing to acknowledge its flaws, I appreciate good voice choices, and I appreciate the willingness to bring in a non-recurring voice actor to come in and do very few lines for a character for just one episode.

      Watching the episode again, I hadn't really paid attention to all the lessons learned. I hadn't really thought about how Ladybug and Cat Noir wouldn't have known the reason why Hawk Moth wanted their Miraculouses. I guess I assumed their kwamis had told them like Nooroo had. It makes for a huge misstep for Hawk Moth now that his enemies know why he or anyone would want both Miraculouses, and because Ladybug and Cat Noir made the connection from Markov's declaration, Marinette and us, the audience, finally learned more about the consequences of the wish-granting ability. As stated before, I want to see at least one person, Hawk Moth or someone else, get the Miraculouses and make the wish just to see the consequences. Supervillain greed or superhero sacrifice, with the dangerous price attached, there is interesting story potential here, so sorry, Marinette, but I hope your vow gets broken in some way in the future.

      Also, Hawk Moth learned better too. He acknowledged his own mistake, something the obsessively determined supervillain never does. I like when the supervillain can learn, making him more complex, and while I want Gabriel to get punishment for his actions after his defeat, it gives me hope that someday he can learn the error of his ways. I really want him to succeed at a wish just for him to regret it entirely, or I hope his new boss forces him to question himself and what they are doing. No matter what, it's great to see the coldhearted, swordstick-wielding supervillain is learning alongside the superheroes, not necessarily for the better.

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    • Tansyflower wrote:
      I watched the English version. I wasn't sure how the English version would choose Markov's voice, but I really like it! I was also pleased that Todd Habberkorn voiced the few lines from Xavier. I get why people don't like the English dub because there are changes or voice changes that are odd or questionable. However, as someone who likes the English dub, although willing to acknowledge its flaws, I appreciate good voice choices, and I appreciate the willingness to bring in a non-recurring voice actor to come in and do very few lines for a character for just one episode.

      Watching the episode again, I hadn't really paid attention to all the lessons learned. I hadn't really thought about how Ladybug and Cat Noir wouldn't have known the reason why Hawk Moth wanted their Miraculouses. I guess I assumed their kwamis had told them like Nooroo had. It makes for a huge misstep for Hawk Moth now that his enemies know why he or anyone would want both Miraculouses, and because Ladybug and Cat Noir made the connection from Markov's declaration, Marinette and us, the audience, finally learned more about the consequences of the wish-granting ability. As stated before, I want to see at least one person, Hawk Moth or someone else, get the Miraculouses and make the wish just to see the consequences. Supervillain greed or superhero sacrifice, with the dangerous price attached, there is interesting story potential here, so sorry, Marinette, but I hope your vow gets broken in some way in the future.

      Also, Hawk Moth learned better too. He acknowledged his own mistake, something the obsessively determined supervillain never does. I like when the supervillain can learn, making him more complex, and while I want Gabriel to get punishment for his actions after his defeat, it gives me hope that someday he can learn the error of his ways. I really want him to succeed at a wish just for him to regret it entirely, or I hope his new boss forces him to question himself and what they are doing. No matter what, it's great to see the coldhearted, swordstick-wielding supervillain is learning alongside the superheroes, not necessarily for the better.

      Agreed on the dub thing- some voices I think are hard to listen to in English (I can't say I like Rose or Max), but the same applies in French (Plagg comes to mind as being more obnoxious to me than Rose or Max). But I generally like both dubs in a way that balances out. Markov's voice is still so very cute in English, but his French voice is cuter.

      She wouldn't make the vow if it weren't going to get broken, I say. Robostus came frighteningly close, though. It is interesting to think about what Hawk Moth's dearest wish could be. Most people suspect it's to do with his wife, but there's a chance it's something more.

      Interesting to me is that Sabrina's hair error is still there, but other errors get fixed like the Lucky Charm in "Prime Queen" when dubbed over. So... is it not an error? 

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    • I liked the long-winded conversation with Markov and Hawk Moth when Markov was saying if the Miraculouses could grant any wishes. That was a bit of a good change and I hope they include this in the next featuring episodes

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    • But I also loved the fact that Robustus tryed to attak Hawk Moth in his own lair by using energy guns ( or whatever they were) It just shows that even HAwk Moth makes bad mistakes too.

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    • DespairBears wrote:
      But I also loved the fact that Robustus tryed to attak Hawk Moth in his own lair by using energy guns ( or whatever they were) It just shows that even HAwk Moth makes bad mistakes too.

      They were missiles I think. What they're doing there is a mystery, though. They seem like overkill for such a small room.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Agreed on the dub thing- some voices I think are hard to listen to in English (I can't say I like Rose or Max), but the same applies in French (Plagg comes to mind as being more obnoxious to me than Rose or Max). But I generally like both dubs in a way that balances out. Markov's voice is still so very cute in English, but his French voice is cuter.

      She wouldn't make the vow if it weren't going to get broken, I say. Robostus came frighteningly close, though. It is interesting to think about what Hawk Moth's dearest wish could be. Most people suspect it's to do with his wife, but there's a chance it's something more.

      Interesting to me is that Sabrina's hair error is still there, but other errors get fixed like the Lucky Charm in "Prime Queen" when dubbed over. So... is it not an error? 

      Markov's French voice is definitely cuter, though it reminds me so much of one of the French Peas' voices from VeggieTales that it's kind of surreal for me. I like the French voice's cuteness, but I like the English version's... politeness? Smoothness? I don't know how to describe it. I like the different interpretations in each language as long as they still fit the character. Also, I have to agree on the better voices depending on the versions. French Plagg's voice is really strange to me after hearing the higher-pitced Korean voice first that is similar to Max Mittelman's voice.

      Nothing better than seeing the main character's vow come crashing down, honestly. I'm not going to argue on the wife point, even as someone who thinks Gabriel's wish relates to her somehow, but I'm eager for whatever consequence will happen for Gabriel. We have yet to find out if he knows about the equivalent exchange, but if he does, I still want his expectation of controlling the exchange to blow up in his face. The man takes a lot of pride in his sense of judgement and control, so for his wish to have an outcome that impacts him greatly, even though he got his wish, is an interesting aspect for me. How does a man handle a colossal error like that, despite being the man of determination other times when it doesn't relate too closely to himself? One can only wonder...

      I think Sabrina's hair is still an error. The error with Alix's hair was still in the English version of "Befana", Iif I'm remembering correctly. Hopefully, if the crew has time and the desire to, they can go back and fix the animation errors. The versions with the errors are probably not going to be lost anytime soon, though.

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    • Tansyflower wrote:

      Markov's French voice is definitely cuter, though it reminds me so much of one of the French Peas' voices from VeggieTales that it's kind of surreal for me. I like the French voice's cuteness, but I like the English version's... politeness? Smoothness? I don't know how to describe it. I like the different interpretations in each language as long as they still fit the character. Also, I have to agree on the better voices depending on the versions. French Plagg's voice is really strange to me after hearing the higher-pitced Korean voice first that is similar to Max Mittelman's voice.

      Nothing better than seeing the main character's vow come crashing down, honestly. I'm not going to argue on the wife point, even as someone who thinks Gabriel's wish relates to her somehow, but I'm eager for whatever consequence will happen for Gabriel. We have yet to find out if he knows about the equivalent exchange, but if he does, I still want his expectation of controlling the exchange to blow up in his face. The man takes a lot of pride in his sense of judgement and control, so for his wish to have an outcome that impacts him greatly, even though he got his wish, is an interesting aspect for me. How does a man handle a colossal error like that, despite being the man of determination other times when it doesn't relate too closely to himself? One can only wonder...

      I think Sabrina's hair is still an error. The error with Alix's hair was still in the English version of "Befana", Iif I'm remembering correctly. Hopefully, if the crew has time and the desire to, they can go back and fix the animation errors. The versions with the errors are probably not going to be lost anytime soon, though.

      I love those French Peas!! Formality might be a good word to describe his English voice. He's very formal and sweet with a touch of firmness. I adore Markov. He is stil very much worthy of not being a robot, but a "wobot". He kinda reminds me a little of the new Rotom-Dex in the new Pokemon games.

      I think it's going to cost him Adrien, if his wish is to get his wife back. I do think his wish likely pertains to his wife, but I'm not wholly sure if it's about getting her back, because I do still suspect he knows where she is, and this whole "she disappeared" thing is a total lie. He does tell Marinette and Adrien two different stories about how he got the book. He tells her HE found it on a trip with his wife, and tells Adrien the book was the last thing his wife ever gave him before she disappeared. You have to really stretch to make them both work, so I think one of the statements is a lie. Considering how flippant he is about his wife (using her painting to conceal multiple secrets and the only time we hear him talk about her outside her disappearing, it's to criticise her being overdramatic. It's a little odd to me, considering it doesn't even seem to have been a year since she disappeared).

      It probably is, but with "Befana" there was less time to fix it. It's been well over a week since "Robostus" first aired. Plenty of time to fix the errors. It's a little disappointing at how many errors there have been in order to put the episodes out quicker. I think one of the studios might be a little sloppier than the other. maybe they'll be fixed before Netflix airs them?

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      DespairBears wrote:
      But I also loved the fact that Robustus tryed to attak Hawk Moth in his own lair by using energy guns ( or whatever they were) It just shows that even HAwk Moth makes bad mistakes too.
      They were missiles I think. What they're doing there is a mystery, though. They seem like overkill for such a small room.

      Well you never know, Ladybug and Cat Noir might break in so Hawk Moth would need some type of defence or offence. 

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    • DespairBears wrote:

      Well you never know, Ladybug and Cat Noir might break in so Hawk Moth would need some type of defence or offence. 

      Yeah, but blow himself up? Seems a little silly. He doesn't want them dead, and he doesn't want to risk harming the Miraculous. So I don't think that's it.

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    • Maybe they would be Tranqualizers to knock them out so then he can take their Miraculouses.

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    • And does Hawk Moth have a sword ?

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    • DespairBears wrote:
      And does Hawk Moth have a sword ?

      In his cane, yes.

      But those things are not tranquilisers, they're bombs or missiles or something.

      You have seen the episode, right?

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    • Yes I have.

      They look like Energy Cannons of some kind according to my Sci-fi knowledge but then seeing it with my own eyes it looks like it shot something explosive or something that had already been exploded to make it a lot more of a weapon, a bit like a flaming arrow instead of an arrow that will be on fir if in contact with the enemy.

      If that makes sense.

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    • DespairBears wrote:
      Yes I have.

      They look like Energy Cannons of some kind according to my Sci-fi knowledge but then seeing it with my own eyes it looks like it shot something explosive or something that had already been exploded to make it a lot more of a weapon, a bit like a flaming arrow instead of an arrow that will be on fir if in contact with the enemy.

      If that makes sense.

      I've seen energy cannons, too, but they don't look like that. They look like explosives of some kind, yeah, but what do you mean by they look like they've already been detonated?

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    • When Hawk Moth was dodging them, before he was about slice them up and reveal his sword, one that he dodged was flying past with smoke as its trail.

      Thats what I mean.

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    • DespairBears wrote:
      When Hawk Moth was dodging them, before he was about slice them up and reveal his sword, one that he dodged was flying past with smoke as its trail.

      Thats what I mean.

      That's a missile's rocket propulsion.

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    • Maetch wrote:
      DespairBears wrote:
      When Hawk Moth was dodging them, before he was about slice them up and reveal his sword, one that he dodged was flying past with smoke as its trail.

      Thats what I mean.

      That's a missile's rocket propulsion.

      Maetch is right- missiles and rockets do that. It's like how when ships (and underwater missiles and I think submarines) move through the water, they make bubbles and (in the case of ships) splash. It's the smoke trail from whatever is propelling the missile along.

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    • I wonder if Hawk Moth was more tired because of the missiles exploding, thus burning his oxygen and also raising the temperature. Not a good combination. Also he needs to get out more. Too bad he isn't as physically adept as he is when he was the Collector.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      I wonder if Hawk Moth was more tired because of the missiles exploding, thus burning his oxygen and also raising the temperature. Not a good combination. Also he needs to get out more. Too bad he isn't as physically adept as he is when he was the Collector.

      Well.... I think the Moth doesn't come with bonus endurance, so that's a normal human's endurance, plus I think the adrenaline just drained out of him immediately after. The Moth has no purpose in combat except to defend itself, so it doesn't really need endurance like the Black Cat and Ladybug do, since they're always in battles. Marinette is not athletic, so she should have low endurance, too, and even someone as athetic as Kim is out of breath doing a fraction of what Ladybug and Cat Noir are always up to. I think, maybe, akumatisation and some of the Miraculouses have endurance as a bonus as part of their powers. I don't think we've ever seen Cat Noir or Ladybug winded at all from their fighting. Adrien is athletic, but Marinette isn't.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Well.... I think the Moth doesn't come with bonus endurance, so that's a normal human's endurance, plus I think the adrenaline just drained out of him immediately after. The Moth has no purpose in combat except to defend itself, so it doesn't really need endurance like the Black Cat and Ladybug do, since they're always in battles. Marinette is not athletic, so she should have low endurance, too, and even someone as athetic as Kim is out of breath doing a fraction of what Ladybug and Cat Noir are always up to. I think, maybe, akumatisation and some of the Miraculouses have endurance as a bonus as part of their powers. I don't think we've ever seen Cat Noir or Ladybug winded at all from their fighting. Adrien is athletic, but Marinette isn't.

      Oh! I think I know why Marinette isn't winded: she's shown to always run to go to school, so that's why. Hahaha! No seriously, her working with her parents at the bakery must have given her endurence, it's a job you're always standing up, with the heat of the ovens, and you do some long shifts. She's used to working, bakery takes preparation, focus, good senses, and keen eyes.

      Then again, Gabriel never leaves the house, so he's clearly out of shape if he always stay home. Marinette gets out a lot, and considering she seems to run a bit late or last minute sometimes, I wouldn't be surprised that she developed some endurence and stamina. Paris is huge.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Oh! I think I know why Marinette isn't winded: she's shown to always run to go to school, so that's why. Hahaha! No seriously, her working with her parents at the bakery must have given her endurence, it's a job you're always standing up, with the heat of the ovens, and you do some long shifts. She's used to working, bakery takes preparation, focus, good senses, and keen eyes.

      Then again, Gabriel never leaves the house, so he's clearly out of shape if he always stay home. Marinette gets out a lot, and considering she seems to run a bit late or last minute sometimes, I wouldn't be surprised that she developed some endurence and stamina. Paris is huge.

      The bakery is right next door to the school and she's never shown helping out in it.

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    • No she hasn't but according to webisodes ( not the real episodes) she does and sometimes her friends help out too

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    • DespairBears wrote:
      No she hasn't but according to webisodes ( not the real episodes) she does and sometimes her friends help out too

      Keywords there being "sometimes" and "friends", meaning the work she does is infrequent and not too laborious that her friends can't do it.

      It makes more sense to me that their suits come with added endurance than to say Marinette's occasional helping out in the bakery builds her endurance up when it's two very different kinds of work. That's like saying a gymnast who's in choir is totally able to do a big musical theatre number and not sound winded when he sings just because he has the endurance to do gymnastics. He isn't trained to dance and he isn't trained to be able to sing while in motion and control his breathing so if he does get out of breath, it doesn't show.

      Marinette helping out in the bakery, be it by carrying huge sacks of flour or participating in the mixing and baking, will not build up the endurance she needs to become a superhero and not become remotely winded at all. Adrien's fencing might not build up the same kind of endurance, either, since the fencing he usually does is standing in one spot,mostly using his upper body.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Keywords there being "sometimes" and "friends", meaning the work she does is infrequent and not too laborious that her friends can't do it.

      It makes more sense to me that their suits come with added endurance than to say Marinette's occasional helping out in the bakery builds her endurance up when it's two very different kinds of work. That's like saying a gymnast who's in choir is totally able to do a big musical theatre number and not sound winded when he sings just because he has the endurance to do gymnastics. He isn't trained to dance and he isn't trained to be able to sing while in motion and control his breathing so if he does get out of breath, it doesn't show.

      Marinette helping out in the bakery, be it by carrying huge sacks of flour or participating in the mixing and baking, will not build up the endurance she needs to become a superhero and not become remotely winded at all. Adrien's fencing might not build up the same kind of endurance, either, since the fencing he usually does is standing in one spot,mostly using his upper body.

      She might just be more in shape since she's still young? Hawk Moth doesn't exercice. Ladybug is used to fight after all the akumas, hence why she might be in shape. Hawk Moth never moves.

      Adrien did say he also does karate, no? And maybe also basket ball? I think. 

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      She might just be more in shape since she's still young? Hawk Moth doesn't exercice. Ladybug is used to fight after all the akumas, hence why she might be in shape. Hawk Moth never moves.

      You can't really say Hawk Moth doesn't move or excersize, we have absolutely no idea what Gabriel does in his free time. 

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    • Why is it such a problem to just say that the suits that need them come with endurance as part of their powers? That seems the simplest solution. Hawk Moth's Miraculous is not intended for combat since his entire powerset revolves around manipulation of other people, so his Miraculous is never meant to be in battle.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Why is it such a problem to just say that the suits that need them come with endurance as part of their powers? Hawk Moth's Miraculous is not intended for combat since his entire powerset revolves around manipulation of other people, so his Miraculous is never meant to be in battle.

      Agreed. 

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    • DarkClaw3 wrote:

      You can't really say Hawk Moth doesn't move or excersize, we have absolutely no idea what Gabriel does in his free time. 

      Apparently Marinette in the collector says he never leaves his house. Not sure if that true, but considering the only times we see him out of the house are when he gets captured by Simon Says, which doesn't count, and when he goes around collecting stuff as the collector, and when he was akumatized he had no problem fighting for a while against Ladybug and Chat Noir, and he moved much more than in Robostus as Hawk Moth. Although maybe though the miraculous isn't for direct combat, it can't be left completely without defense, hence why he has the cane, plus the sword in it. I bet some past users must have fought directly themselves.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Apparently Marinette in the collector says he never leaves his house. Not sure if that true, but considering the only times we see him out of the house are when he gets captured by Simon Says, which doesn't count, and when he goes around collecting stuff as the collector, and when he was akumatized he had no problem fighting for a while against Ladybug and Chat Noir, and he moved much more than in Robostus as Hawk Moth. Although maybe though the miraculous isn't for direct combat, it can't be left completely without defense, hence why he has the cane, plus the sword in it. I bet some past users must have fought directly themselves.

      And it's a manor he lives in, and considering Adrien's fencing classes were previously in the house, there's a room for him to do that in. There's probably a room where Gabriel could do excerise.

      It's possible, too, that his panting is from fear of the whole nearly dying thing. So there's no reason to think Gabriel doesn't have endurance of some sort, but that's not really what's being contended.

      I think, personally, akumatisation and some of the suits give additional endurance because they are meant for combat. Suits like Hawk Moth's and possibly Le Paon's and Rena Rouge's, are not intended to be in fights because their powers work best from the sidelines, so they do not come with additional endurance because the suit simply doesn't need it. It's energy is put elsewhere. Sure, some of them engaged in combat, but they relied only on their own endurance and not the endurance granted by the suit. The Moth, Fox (assuming it's power is illusion), and Peacock can defend themselves, but do not have endurance to do long fights. Cuz that's not what they're designed to do.

      Each suit, each Miraculous, in my opinion, serves a purpose. Some are designed for combat because that's where their powers serve best, while others are meant to work from the shadows because their powers work best from there. Volpina actually somewhat supports this if her powerset is the same as Rena Rouge's- we don't usually see the real Volpina unless she's specifically picked out, and considering how she disappeared without notice in Adrien's home, the real Volpina never even set foot in Adrien's house. We know her illusions can talk, because the one who "kidnapped Adrien" talked. So the Fox might be one that's designed to work from the shadows. We know the Moth isn't meant to go out and fight- it doesn't matter if some of it's past bearers have done so, it isn't meant to be- because its powers rely on going through other people. The Peacock, as Hawk Moth's boss, probably has a powerset that keeps her inside for the most part, or can be used inside. She probably keeps an eye on Hawk Moth, after all. The powers of he ones that aren't intended for hand-to-hand combat like that, they put their energies elsewhere from granting boundless endurance. They might even lack the ability to take hits as neatly as Ladybug and Cat Noir do. It's a trade-off for more power, I think, considering their power is more of a constant.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      And it's a manor he lives in, and considering Adrien's fencing classes were previously in the house, there's a room for him to do that in. There's probably a room where Gabriel could do excerise.

      It's possible, too, that his panting is from fear of the whole nearly dying thing. So there's no reason to think Gabriel doesn't have endurance of some sort, but that's not really what's being contended.

      I think, personally, akumatisation and some of the suits give additional endurance because they are meant for combat. Suits like Hawk Moth's and possibly Le Paon's and Rena Rouge's, are not intended to be in fights because their powers work best from the sidelines, so they do not come with additional endurance because the suit simply doesn't need it. It's energy is put elsewhere. Sure, some of them engaged in combat, but they relied only on their own endurance and not the endurance granted by the suit. The Moth, Fox (assuming it's power is illusion), and Peacock can defend themselves, but do not have endurance to do long fights. Cuz that's not what they're designed to do.

      Each suit, each Miraculous, in my opinion, serves a purpose. Some are designed for combat because that's where their powers serve best, while others are meant to work from the shadows because their powers work best from there. Volpina actually somewhat supports this if her powerset is the same as Rena Rouge's- we don't usually see the real Volpina unless she's specifically picked out, and considering how she disappeared without notice in Adrien's home, the real Volpina never even set foot in Adrien's house. We know her illusions can talk, because the one who "kidnapped Adrien" talked. So the Fox might be one that's designed to work from the shadows. We know the Moth isn't meant to go out and fight- it doesn't matter if some of it's past bearers have done so, it isn't meant to be- because its powers rely on going through other people. The Peacock, as Hawk Moth's boss, probably has a powerset that keeps her inside for the most part, or can be used inside. She probably keeps an eye on Hawk Moth, after all. The powers of he ones that aren't intended for hand-to-hand combat like that, they put their energies elsewhere from granting boundless endurance. They might even lack the ability to take hits as neatly as Ladybug and Cat Noir do. It's a trade-off for more power, I think, considering their power is more of a constant.

      Then again, why should Gabriel leave his house? He has his office there, so no need to go out anyway. :D

      I suppose that the five remaining main miraculous, peacock, bee, butterfly, turte and fox don't have a time limit, hence why they maybe don't need endurance, since they can stay transformed at all time, even after they used their powers. Hawk Moth as been shown to use his powers twice a day, in Antibug and in the Collector, so maybe they get a bit more let down in the physical department in favor or being able to use their powers at will, unlike Ladybug and Chat Noir, because those 2 have the strongest moves and are the strongest. Otherwise they would be, and I quote TV Tropes, complete game breakers. 

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Then again, why should Gabriel leave his house? He has his office there, so no need to go out anyway. :D

      I suppose that the five remaining main miraculous, peacock, bee, butterfly, turte and fox don't have a time limit, hence why they maybe don't need endurance, since they can stay transformed at all time, even after they used their powers. Hawk Moth as been shown to use his powers twice a day, in Antibug and in the Collector, so maybe they get a bit more let down in the physical department in favor or being able to use their powers at will, unlike Ladybug and Chat Noir, because those 2 have the strongest moves and are the strongest. Otherwise they would be, and I quote TV Tropes, complete game breakers. 

      I never said he left, I thought you were implying since he doesn't heave he doesn't excersise.

      That's what I think, because they don't seem to have a Cataclysm or Lucky Charm kinda move. But, I gotta disagree with you about one thing- He does not use his powers twice in one day in "Antibug". that is, he doesn't akumatise someone twice in the episode. Sabrina was akumatised the day before, that's why she was absent from school the day before according to Alya, and why Chloe is tired the next day. But in "Volpina" he does akumatise two people in roughly two hours with little downtime between Volpina's prification and his own akumatisation. I think maybe there's something else that forces them to detransform, because their powers are a constant through their suit. They'd also have wildly varying timers, since only hypothetically one of them has a five-minute timer on it and I can't prove it because the Peacock Miraculous has been shown as the green brooch, even though I'm almost positive it isn't because this clashes with the Miraculous book.

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    • Hawk Moth said the two miraculous' made...a wish?? In the middle of season one, it told us that the holder of the two miraculous' would achieve ultimate power. Is Gabriel just torn apart by losing his wife?

      I thought Gabriel was just bad, to begin with, but now this makes me see another side. Why did he choose to tell a robot, and that's when they say a wish? Or it's just the fact that nobody "bugged" to ask. It just seems weird that he starts to say none of your business, and then actually tells him. He could have just turned him into Robustus and be done with it. Why answer?

      I think Hawk Moth is really just torn from his missing wife and needs that wish to find her. He was in his own way akumatized into Hawk Moth, akumatizing other people who feel or felt the same way when he was missing his wife. I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty confused and hyped for more clues for what'll happen in other episodes.

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    • TheGalaxyDerp wrote:
      Hawk Moth said the two miraculous' made...a wish?? In the middle of season one, it told us that the holder of the two miraculous' would achieve ultimate power. Is Gabriel just torn apart by losing his wife?

      I thought Gabriel was just bad, to begin with, but now this makes me see another side. Why did he choose to tell a robot, and that's when they say a wish? Or it's just the fact that nobody "bugged" to ask. It just seems weird that he starts to say none of your business, and then actually tells him. He could have just turned him into Robustus and be done with it. Why answer?

      I think Hawk Moth is really just torn from his missing wife and needs that wish to find her. He was in his own way akumatized into Hawk Moth, akumatizing other people who feel or felt the same way when he was missing his wife. I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty confused and hyped for more clues for what'll happen in other episodes.

      The ultimate power grants you one wish, I would guess. You have the power to have any wish you want, anything at all, granted, but Nooroo doesn't explain the catch, so Hawk Moth might not know about it. I really hope not.

      I think he thought a robot wouldn't care about obtaining the powers of the Miraculouses, where a human would. He was underestimating Markov's humanity.

      Whatever his goal is, he can only achieve it through villainy. So I'm actually wondering if his wife is the entire goal. I mean, think about it- he could akumatise someone like a medium into having real, heroic psychic powers who could tell him where his wife is. He doesn't need the Miraculouses for that. So he needs to be a villain. That's an interesting way to look at it, isn't it?

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    • The power to reshape all of reality at will like a god... Creation and Destruction without limit... I really doubt Gabriel's going to just stop at "wishing" his wife back with power like that in his hands.

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    • Maetch wrote:
      The power to reshape all of reality at will like a god... Creation and Destruction without limit... I really doubt Gabriel's going to just stop at "wishing" his wife back with power like that in his hands.

      Assuming that's even his wish in the first place.

      I'm going to guess Gabriel doesn't know the equivilent exchange rule and isn't the type to listen.

      Speaking of, I'd love to see Plagg know who Hawk Moth is because he saw him when Gabriel used the power of the Miraculouses, but not say anything to Adrien about it when Adrien gets his Miraculous back somehow.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Maetch wrote:
      The power to reshape all of reality at will like a god... Creation and Destruction without limit... I really doubt Gabriel's going to just stop at "wishing" his wife back with power like that in his hands.
      Assuming that's even his wish in the first place.

      I'm going to guess Gabriel doesn't know the equivilent exchange rule and isn't the type to listen.

      Speaking of, I'd love to see Plagg know who Hawk Moth is because he saw him when Gabriel used the power of the Miraculouses, but not say anything to Adrien about it when Adrien gets his Miraculous back somehow.

      Gabriel would buy Plagg's silence with a lifetime supply of camembert. Gabriel would eventually realize it's a bad deal for him.

      I bet that, if Gabriel wishes for his wife to be brought back, he'll be gone.

      I wish someone started forums for the next episodes.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I'm going to guess Gabriel doesn't know the equivilent exchange rule and isn't the type to listen.

      Astruc confirmed that he does know.

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    • Maetch wrote:

      Thearomalady wrote:

      I'm going to guess Gabriel doesn't know the equivilent exchange rule and isn't the type to listen.

      Astruc confirmed that he does know.

      Ah, he did? Huh. Interesting.

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    • Luiz48 wrote:

      Gabriel would buy Plagg's silence with a lifetime supply of camembert. Gabriel would eventually realize it's a bad deal for him.

      I bet that, if Gabriel wishes for his wife to be brought back, he'll be gone.

      I wish someone started forums for the next episodes.

      Guess I'll continue to be the one person ho actually thinks Plagg is more than just cheese and laziness...Even if it is a joke, that's all people seem to see Plagg as.

      I wonder if he just thinks some random person will be done, or if he thinks he can get around it, or if he thinks he'll be the one to go like you're suggesting, or if it'll be Nathalie and that's why he involved her, if he knows it might be Adrien... I mean, surely it has to be someone of near-equal import to him.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Maetch wrote:

      Thearomalady wrote:

      I'm going to guess Gabriel doesn't know the equivilent exchange rule and isn't the type to listen.

      Astruc confirmed that he does know.
      Ah, he did? Huh. Interesting.

      I think I would say more "horrifying" than interesting, because if he brings his wife back, the only other person he cares about as much as her is Adrien, and that would mean he would be ready to sacrifice his own son over his wife. That's really scary.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      Thearomalady wrote:
      Maetch wrote:

      Thearomalady wrote:

      I'm going to guess Gabriel doesn't know the equivilent exchange rule and isn't the type to listen.

      Astruc confirmed that he does know.
      Ah, he did? Huh. Interesting.
      I think I would say more "horrifying" than interesting, because if he brings his wife back, the only other person he cares about as much as her is Adrien, and that would mean he would be ready to sacrifice his own son over his wife. That's really scary.

      He also cares about himself but, just in case you're right, what really scares me about this idea is that having something to offer as "equivalent exchange" is his only reason to keep Adrien alive.

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    • Luiz48 wrote:

      He also cares about himself but, just in case you're right, what really scares me about this idea is that having something to offer as "equivalent exchange" is his only reason to keep Adrien alive.

      I think it's possible that he may not know the full nature of the equivilent exchange. Like Master Fu doesn't outright say Max would lose his humanity, he just says "someone else". While we can assume it means Max, the episode doesn't confirm that. Does he know, for sure, that Adrien is at risk? The man has to know that if he trades Adrien away for her, she's going to hate him, surely.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      I think I would say more "horrifying" than interesting, because if he brings his wife back, the only other person he cares about as much as her is Adrien, and that would mean he would be ready to sacrifice his own son over his wife. That's really scary.

      I meant "interesting" in the way that it's interesting then, that he would be so laser focused on his agenda. But if he's willing to sacrifice Adrien for his wife, then that means he doesn't care about Adrien as much.

      I'm still not wholly sure his plan is to bring his wife back. Especially not after "Dark Owl".


      In that episode, he says he wants to "erase" something in the past. Not his past, the past. That's extremely interesting. What could he possibly want to erase?
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    • no idea

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Luiz48 wrote:

      He also cares about himself but, just in case you're right, what really scares me about this idea is that having something to offer as "equivalent exchange" is his only reason to keep Adrien alive.

      I think it's possible that he may not know the full nature of the equivilent exchange. Like Master Fu doesn't outright say Max would lose his humanity, he just says "someone else". While we can assume it means Max, the episode doesn't confirm that. Does he know, for sure, that Adrien is at risk? The man has to know that if he trades Adrien away for her, she's going to hate him, surely.

      He wouldn't be the first villain in history to fail to think of this setback.

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    • Hawk Moth isn't thinking of the future, really. He's so determined to get his own back he'll risk anything to get it, even the safety and lives of the people of Paris. It seems...really dark, actually. But what if he's not trying to bring someone back to life but instead change something in his life? Maybe a choice or a bad decision? And if he does undo the past, it's likely that no one in the remade present will remember the old timeline, and all the bad things he did will cease to exist. Still, he's gambling. He's a sympathetic character, but he's also a criminal and needs to be brought to justice. If they ever catch him, Gabriel needs to go to prison. Kinda like the Spiderman "With great power comes Great Responsibility" line, Gabriel as HM has a responsibility to Paris, and he's failing that responsibility...worse, he's abusing it. I sure hope if LB and CN ever have this choice they will make the right decision. This isn't an akumatized villain; this is someone who knows perfectly well what he is doing and doesn't care. I feel sorry for him, but he needs to be made accountable for his misdeeds.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Chi of Darkness wrote:

      I think I would say more "horrifying" than interesting, because if he brings his wife back, the only other person he cares about as much as her is Adrien, and that would mean he would be ready to sacrifice his own son over his wife. That's really scary.

      I meant "interesting" in the way that it's interesting then, that he would be so laser focused on his agenda. But if he's willing to sacrifice Adrien for his wife, then that means he doesn't care about Adrien as much.

      I'm still not wholly sure his plan is to bring his wife back. Especially not after "Dark Owl".


      In that episode, he says he wants to "erase" something in the past. Not his past, the past. That's extremely interesting. What could he possibly want to erase?

      Thats got me thinking.

      What if you had the Ladybug and Cat Miraculous and you combined them so that you could be that freaky and horrific looking demon from the book we all saw in the collector, maybe that has the ablility to travel in time.

      Ooooh, im feeling suspence coming on.

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    • Why couldn't Ladybug's powers fix the damage Robustus done to Hawk Moth in his lair?

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    • btw does Robustus looked like Whirly from Rusty Rivets?

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    • SpotsOnClawsOut wrote:
      Why couldn't Ladybug's powers fix the damage Robustus done to Hawk Moth in his lair?

      Probably a distance matter.

      Do we know for a fact they didn't fix?

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    • Luiz48 wrote:

      Probably a distance matter.

      Do we know for a fact they didn't fix?

      We didn't see the ladybugs go through but I don't remember seeing the cut-up defence system, either.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Luiz48 wrote:

      Probably a distance matter.

      Do we know for a fact they didn't fix?

      We didn't see the ladybugs go through but I don't remember seeing the cut-up defence system, either.

      The Miraculous Ladybug should have cleaned it up.

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    • A FANDOM user
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