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  • This is the official discussion thread for S2E5, "Riposte".

    Post and share your thoughts on the episode here. You will not need to mark spoilers in this thread.

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    • Wait, is it already out? Or did you just create this in advance?

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    • In advance.

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    • Is best to wait for the ep to air first before creating this thread.

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    • I'm a bit busy tomorrow so I can't.

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    • Couldn't have waited for someone else to create it?

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    • I rather create it myself.

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    • You don't always need the spot light, you know. It doesn't hurt to wait for the episode to air. That's all I was concerned about.

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    • Its okay.

      I would kinda do the same thing if I was in your spot but as CaseyTheCupcakeQueen234 kindly pointed out we both know now. :)

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    • I don't get why Marinette needs to be in Adrien's fencing class, just to be closer to him or just because she's worried about Kagami? Anyway I still don't like seeing her there. Can't we have an Adrien episode? Marinette's getting on my nerves with all the things she did in the past 2 episodes.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      I don't get why Marinette needs to be in Adrien's fencing class, just to be closer to him or just because she's worried about Kagami? Anyway I still don't like seeing her there. Can't we have an Adrien episode? Marinette's getting on my nerves with all the things she did in the past 2 episodes.

      Holy croissants. It's obvious you deeply dislike Marinette. Lol, you keep pointing out her flaws. We get it, she isn't an angel. How do you know Marinette only went to the fencing lesson because of jealousy or a reason pertaining to Adrien or Kagami? How do you know if whether she was assigned in that fencing lesson or not? There's a lot more students there, no need to make a huge deal out of it.

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    • HarshLemon wrote:
      Chi of Darkness wrote:
      I don't get why Marinette needs to be in Adrien's fencing class, just to be closer to him or just because she's worried about Kagami? Anyway I still don't like seeing her there. Can't we have an Adrien episode? Marinette's getting on my nerves with all the things she did in the past 2 episodes.
      Holy croissants. It's obvious you deeply dislike Marinette. Lol, you keep pointing out her flaws. We get it, she isn't an angel. How do you know Marinette only went to the fencing lesson because of jealousy or a reason pertaining to Adrien or Kagami? How do you know if whether she was assigned in that fencing lesson or not? There's a lot more students there, no need to make a huge deal out of it.

      Yeah, we see a LOT of other students, and  plus, Marinette has had plenty of oppurtunities to do something similar beforehand, but she didnt. 

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      I don't get why Marinette needs to be in Adrien's fencing class, just to be closer to him or just because she's worried about Kagami? Anyway I still don't like seeing her there. Can't we have an Adrien episode? Marinette's getting on my nerves with all the things she did in the past 2 episodes.

      it would be pretty hard to make an adrien-centric episode without the main protagonist. at the latest when there is an akuma we would need ladybug/marinette, because she is the only one who can purify the akuma. Marinette is still the main protagonist, so most of the things we see are from her point of view. maybe there will be an adrien episode, we know that there is going to be a chat noir comic, but that would be more like a special, and one with no akumas. 

      let's wait till the episode comes out before we jump into conclusion :)

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    • HarshLemon wrote:
      Chi of Darkness wrote:
      I don't get why Marinette needs to be in Adrien's fencing class, just to be closer to him or just because she's worried about Kagami? Anyway I still don't like seeing her there. Can't we have an Adrien episode? Marinette's getting on my nerves with all the things she did in the past 2 episodes.
      Holy croissants. It's obvious you deeply dislike Marinette. Lol, you keep pointing out her flaws. We get it, she isn't an angel. How do you know Marinette only went to the fencing lesson because of jealousy or a reason pertaining to Adrien or Kagami? How do you know if whether she was assigned in that fencing lesson or not? There's a lot more students there, no need to make a huge deal out of it.

      I just get annoyed that she seems to be everywhere when Adrien is doing something, they promised Chat Noir was going to be more important, so I assume Adrien too, and he needs more focus alone without Marinette in the picture all the time. I get she's the protagonist, but she doesn't need to always be there everytime it focus on Adrien/Chat Noir. He needs some focus alone without her there, he hardly interacts with any other girls in the class beside Marinette and Chloé, while we see Marinette interact with pretty much every other guys in the class. I'm starting to get sick of his character always getting more focus just because Marinette makes it happen, or will appear on the line because she stalks him or it just concern him. Let him alone a bit.

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    • I really enjoyed this episode. The fight sequences amongst Riposte and Ladybug was extreme. Furthermore, there was a considerable measure of character improvement with Adrien's character in this episode.

      Both Kagami and Adrien released their fencing aptitudes; they are both exceptionally skilled in that kind of sport which is very impressive. Additionally, Kagami appears to be a feisty, ambitious, vigorous and determined young student who dependably needs to win however acknowledges losing decently. I truly like her character. As found in this scene, it appears as though Marinette is likewise a fast learner and a talented fencer, as well. Even as Ladybug, she swordfighted Riposte and both Riposte's and Ladybug fenced each other, very well.

      Moreover, in one scene where Riposte is going to attack Adrien, Hawk Moth instantly stops her and cautions her to pursue Ladybug's Miraculous. This demonstrates Gabriel profoundly watches over his child and does not have any malicious intent for him. Nonetheless, it's Hawk Moth is unwillingly harming Adrien (as Cat Noir), himself.

      At the end of the episode, both Kagami and Adrien gained a new friendship and bond which was very sweet. I hope to see Kagami feature in future episodes.

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    • the fighting scenes this episode was really amazing! i really hope we're going to see more kagami in the next episodes. i especially want to see more interactions between her and adrien, since he was instantly attracted to her. 

      how many times this season is he going to say that marinette is "just a friend", btw? haha

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    • Given how the yo-yo couldn't find purchase on Riposte's blade would it be fair to say the metallic substance is frictionless? 

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    • So he wasn't attracted to her just because she looked like Ladybug, tahnk goodness. Seems he was smitten as soon as she took off her mask, that was so cute. They really are the akward, only rich kid of important families, and she has a black ring to complement his normally white ring. They look so cute together. I ship Kagami and Adrien for the rest of my life now. I still got annoyed that Marinette decided to take Adrien's side just to not lose her place, that was mean for Kagami, even thought she regretted it, but still she wanted to take fencing to get closer to Adrien, what a surprise. Urgh, how annoying. I hope D'Argentcourt will come back on his decision and give Kagami the place. And sorry Ladybug, but if you say Kagami doesn't deserve Adrien, you're not one to talk. Not after this. 3 episodes in a row where Marinette/Ladybug makes an akuma, she's starting to catch up to Chloé.

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    • Ladybug was amazing at fencing, she rocks. By the way, I ship Kagami and Lila. I think they might make a really cute couple.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      So he wasn't attracted to her just because she looked like Ladybug, tahnk goodness. Seems he was smitten as soon as she took off her mask, that was so cute. They really are the akward, only rich kid of important families, and she has a black ring to complement his normally white ring. They look so cute together. I ship Kagami and Adrien for the rest of my life now. I still got annoyed that Marinette decided to take Adrien's side just to not lose her place, that was mean for Kagami, even thought she regretted it, but still she wanted to take fencing to get closer to Adrien, what a surprise. Urgh, how annoying. I hope D'Argentcourt will come back on his decision and give Kagami the place. And sorry Ladybug, but if you say Kagami doesn't deserve Adrien, you're not one to talk. Not after this. 3 episodes in a row where Marinette/Ladybug makes an akuma, she's starting to catch up to Chloé.

      Lol. A black ring to complement Adrien's ring? I would loooove to hear where you found this information. But, no offense, Adrien and Marinette are Ying and Yang, that's pretty much more significant.

      We get that you don't like Marinette, but why are constantly commenting about it? We all know Marinette and Adrien will end up together. Don't tell me that when we will get to see Kagami's flaws, you won't point them out.

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    • ShinoharaHiroko
      ShinoharaHiroko removed this reply because:
      New comment below
      11:55, November 1, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Xoxoxoooo wrote:
      the fighting scenes this episode was really amazing! i really hope we're going to see more kagami in the next episodes. i especially want to see more interactions between her and adrien, since he was instantly attracted to her. 

      how many times this season is he going to say that marinette is "just a friend", btw? haha

      Well, I really hope that Adrien will notice Marinette more in the upcoming episodes!

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    • CaseyTheCupcakeQueen234 wrote:
      Ladybug was amazing at fencing, she rocks. By the way, I ship Kagami and Lila. I think they might make a really cute couple.

      I do too! I would ship Kagami with Marinette or Lila.

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    • MariChatón218 wrote:
      I really enjoyed this episode. The fight sequences amongst Riposte and Ladybug was extreme. Furthermore, there was a considerable measure of character improvement with Adrien's character in this episode.

      Both Kagami and Adrien released their fencing aptitudes; they are both exceptionally skilled in that kind of sport which is very impressive. Additionally, Kagami appears to be a feisty, ambitious, vigorous and determined young student who dependably needs to win however acknowledges losing decently. I truly like her character. As found in this scene, it appears as though Marinette is likewise a fast learner and a talented fencer, as well. Even as Ladybug, she swordfighted Riposte and both Riposte's and Ladybug fenced each other, very well.

      Moreover, in one scene where Riposte is going to attack Adrien, Hawk Moth instantly stops her and cautions her to pursue Ladybug's Miraculous. This demonstrates Gabriel profoundly watches over his child and does not have any malicious intent for him. Nonetheless, it's Hawk Moth is unwillingly harming Adrien (as Cat Noir), himself.

      At the end of the episode, both Kagami and Adrien gained a new friendship and bond which was very sweet. I hope to see Kagami feature in future episodes.

      Same. I loved all the Ladrien scenes in this episode. :)

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    • I am totally in love with Kagami, her incredible skills and wise personnality made me think that she will spice up the show! When she was fighting Ladybug and Adrien, we can really see that she has a competitive mind and is here to win. I hope she will be in the same as our lovebirds.

      Althought I want her to be friends with Adrien, I don't want any further progress between them. Marinette still has a long way to go, but I am sure that she will become a notable girl, worthy of respect and admiration like when she is Ladybug, and hopefully these two little dorks will understand that they are simply made for each other.

      These Ladriens scenes only proved us that Adrien is absolutly not ready to let his feelings for Ladybug fade. Him looking at Kagami with constant surprise doesn't mean anything for now. Even if he classified her as a good friend, it's only a matter of time he realizes she is not just a good friend to him.

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    • So I watched it but I got lost at some parts. I don't speak the language it was in! Can someone sumerize it? I got some parts but not others.

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    • i felt so bad for marinette when he goes "Elle est a tres bien copine" (She is a good friend) I was like AWWWWWW :( but i have a feeling that the boy talking to marunette in the fencing outfit who didnt take off his whatever he was wearing on his head is Luka. I swear. 

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    • Dancingdiva213 wrote:
      i felt so bad for marinette when he goes "Elle est a tres bien copine" (She is a good friend) I was like AWWWWWW :( but i have a feeling that the boy talking to marunette in the fencing outfit who didnt take off his whatever he was wearing on his head is Luka. I swear. 

      oops i mesnshe is a very good friend.

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    • I'm just waiting for it to be released with subtitles, I haven't found a place with them yet.

      This episode put me through so many emotions. At the end when Marinette dropped to the floor in sadness I really felt for her. I didn't realise I was that much of a Marinette fan, but I was really angry at Adrien. Of course it's not his fault, but I am excited for the day where he realises he has been blind.

      The fact Hawkmoth stopped Riposte from hurting Adrien reminded me that he is Gabriel. Since they've gone back to the season 1 style of episode, I keep forgetting Hawkmoth is Gabriel. I must say the 5 episodes we've seen so far are some of the best of the entire series, and better than nearly all of the season 1 episodes. Although I do prefer the episodes that link in to the overall story arc.

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    • ShinoharaHiroko wrote:
      Chi of Darkness wrote:
      So he wasn't attracted to her just because she looked like Ladybug, tahnk goodness. Seems he was smitten as soon as she took off her mask, that was so cute. They really are the akward, only rich kid of important families, and she has a black ring to complement his normally white ring. They look so cute together. I ship Kagami and Adrien for the rest of my life now. I still got annoyed that Marinette decided to take Adrien's side just to not lose her place, that was mean for Kagami, even thought she regretted it, but still she wanted to take fencing to get closer to Adrien, what a surprise. Urgh, how annoying. I hope D'Argentcourt will come back on his decision and give Kagami the place. And sorry Ladybug, but if you say Kagami doesn't deserve Adrien, you're not one to talk. Not after this. 3 episodes in a row where Marinette/Ladybug makes an akuma, she's starting to catch up to Chloé.
      Lol. A black ring to complement Adrien's ring? I would loooove to hear where you found this information. But, no offense, Adrien and Marinette are Ying and Yang, that's pretty much more significant.

      We get that you don't like Marinette, but why are constantly commenting about it? We all know Marinette and Adrien will end up together. Don't tell me that when we will get to see Kagami's flaws, you won't point them out.

      It was more Marinette siding with Adrien instead of declaring a tie or just saying she can't say, like D'Argentcourt did earlier. Instead, she whines how she just got robbed of her chances to spend more time with Adrien and showing off to him, which are the sole reasons why she entered the class in the first place, all over again like in The Gamer, but with the role reversed. Marinette is max who really wants to get the spot, unlike Max it's just to show off to Adrien and spend more time with him unlike the rest of the students who are there to fence, not to impress their crush. Kagami is kinda Marinettte, the best one that shows up last minute to try to win, unlike Marinette she wants the spot because she wants to fence, and she is serious about it. Unlike in Gamer, Kagami gets refused because Marinette (who actually has no clues if Kagami or Adrien won as it was too fast for her) decided it was Adrien, then can't take it back because D'argentcourt says the referee's decision is finale, then. And she says that despite the fatc that she never catched on why she won against Adrien earlier when she was practising with him, and she still didn't know who won between Adrien and Kagami, as it was too fast for her. Still sided for Adrien so she wouldn't have competition anymore. She is a total newbie, and didn't get anything with how the winning won but still decided a victor, when she could have just sayed she couldn't decide. Kagami taking the loss hard, as one coming from a prestigious family of fencers who isn't kind to second chances, would be upset having her chances gotten away from a newbie who couldn't match the speed and declared a winner when actually she didn't know who won was kinda mean. Marinette still was a bit sorry for that, but still wanted the place solely for Adrien. I'm kinda annoyed that she does fencing only because of him. She doesn't need to do the same things he does in order to make him fall for her and notice her more, just being herself would be enough. She hasn't learned her lesson from the gamer. Althougth I say that this episode was basically Karma for what she did in the gamer episode, if people sided with Marinette in Gamer instead of Max, they should side with Kagami in Riposte. It's pratically the same thing, except that Marinette wasn't interested in the class, just showing off and spending time with Adrien so for the wrong reasons, and Kagami being the most skilled, gets a chance despite being late but get refuse because Marinette didn't tell the simple truth of her having no idea who really won, and thus should be a tie. Marinette whining about all being unfair is hypocritical of her since she did that to Max back in Gamer for the wrong reasons, while Kagami actually enters for the right reasons, as oppsoed to Marinette who actually enters for the same wrong reasons as in the gamer: spend time with Adrien. So yes, she hasn't learned her lesson, it has to be because of Adrien that she does something again, and still whines about it when the others have actually the right and the good reasons to do their thing, while she doesn't. It's what irks me so much about her. Then later when she kisses the coffin in which Adrien is, she says that she (Kagami) doesn't deserve him. Kagami doesn't even have a crush on Adrien. Even at the end, she doesn't have a crush on him, she just accept his friendship. I like that Kagami doesn't have feelings for him yet, she just sees him for who he is without going crazy and doing anything for being noticed by him unlike Marinette, Chloé and Lila, which I find refreshing, because she is nicer than them, and is not jealous, just competitive and serious about fencing. 

      Kagami is the best, she is almost as agile as Ladybug and a good fighter, and that's before she turns into Riposte. I seriously hope that she gets the spot, D'Argentcourt would be crazy to pick anyone else over her, she can crush any of the newbies.

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    • I havent seen this episode yet thoughn i am looking foward to seeing it after school tonight!

      I think i may have to start drawing Kagami!!! She is awesome!

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      It was more Marinette siding with Adrien instead of declaring a tie or just saying she can't say, like D'Argentcourt did earlier. Instead, she whines how she just got robbed of her chances to spend more time with Adrien and showing off to him, which are the sole reasons why she entered the class in the first place, all over again like in The Gamer, but with the role reversed. Marinette is max who really wants to get the spot, unlike Max it's just to show off to Adrien and spend more time with him unlike the rest of the students who are there to fence, not to impress their crush. Kagami is kinda Marinettte, the best one that shows up last minute to try to win, unlike Marinette she wants the spot because she wants to fence, and she is serious about it. Unlike in Gamer, Kagami gets refused because Marinette (who actually has no clues if Kagami or Adrien won as it was too fast for her) decided it was Adrien, then can't take it back because D'argentcourt says the referee's decision is finale, then. And she says that despite the fatc that she never catched on why she won against Adrien earlier when she was practising with him, and she still didn't know who won between Adrien and Kagami, as it was too fast for her. Still sided for Adrien so she wouldn't have competition anymore. She is a total newbie, and didn't get anything with how the winning won but still decided a victor, when she could have just sayed she couldn't decide. Kagami taking the loss hard, as one coming from a prestigious family of fencers who isn't kind to second chances, would be upset having her chances gotten away from a newbie who couldn't match the speed and declared a winner when actually she didn't know who won was kinda mean. Marinette still was a bit sorry for that, but still wanted the place solely for Adrien. I'm kinda annoyed that she does fencing only because of him. She doesn't need to do the same things he does in order to make him fall for her and notice her more, just being herself would be enough. She hasn't learned her lesson from the gamer. Althougth I say that this episode was basically Karma for what she did in the gamer episode, if people sided with Marinette in Gamer instead of Max, they should side with Kagami in Riposte. It's pratically the same thing, except that Marinette wasn't interested in the class, just showing off and spending time with Adrien so for the wrong reasons, and Kagami being the most skilled, gets a chance despite being late but get refuse because Marinette didn't tell the simple truth of her having no idea who really won, and thus should be a tie. Marinette whining about all being unfair is hypocritical of her since she did that to Max back in Gamer for the wrong reasons, while Kagami actually enters for the right reasons, as oppsoed to Marinette who actually enters for the same wrong reasons as in the gamer: spend time with Adrien. So yes, she hasn't learned her lesson, it has to be because of Adrien that she does something again, and still whines about it when the others have actually the right and the good reasons to do their thing, while she doesn't. It's what irks me so much about her. Then later when she kisses the coffin in which Adrien is, she says that she (Kagami) doesn't deserve him. Kagami doesn't even have a crush on Adrien. Even at the end, she doesn't have a crush on him, she just accept his friendship. I like that Kagami doesn't have feelings for him yet, she just sees him for who he is without going crazy and doing anything for being noticed by him unlike Marinette, Chloé and Lila, which I find refreshing, because she is nicer than them, and is not jealous, just competitive and serious about fencing. 

      Kagami is the best, she is almost as agile as Ladybug and a good fighter, and that's before she turns into Riposte. I seriously hope that she gets the spot, D'Argentcourt would be crazy to pick anyone else over her, she can crush any of the newbies.

      Oh boy. Ok, I will stop right here.

      First, stop complaining. You jump to conclusions so easily that it isn't normal. Marinette did take this class to be with Adrien, but not to take Kagami's place. What is so wrong wanting to spend time with the person you love? You are so unrealistic. She is human, for God's sake, and a teenager. She is acting like any 14 years old girl. You are only saying that it is wrong for Marinette to be in love, but it's okay for Kagami. Marinette has very good sides, and you just don't want to see them. I am getting really annoyed by how you just invente reasons to prove you are right about a fact. Marinette didn't take Adrien's side, she did what she thought was right and went with her intuition. Plus, she later confirmed that she was maybe wrong about the winner. But what really made me laugh is how you described Marinette as a newbie. LOL. So you are saying that the girl who is saving Paris everyday, who fights with a freaking yo-yo and who can imagine complexe plans in seconds is a newbie? Please, tell me you're joking. You don't seem to know that if D'Argentcourt knew that Ladybug was in his class, his decision would be as clear as water. And how you compare Marinette to a crazy girl who only wants to show off is getting on my nerves, don't start saying that just to prove that Kagami is the right one for Adrien. She gets nervous, she blushes, she dreams, she tries her best for him, she let him think that her gift to him was from Gabriel, she returned an important book just to give him back his freedom, she saves him, she worries about him, she wants to get to know him, she wants to be with him, she sees him in her future, she defends him, you saw all of this and yet, you only point out her flaws and call her a crazy girl. In other words, you are the hypocritical and insincere one, blaming someone for her flaws and not acknowledging the best of her. 

      I think you didn't get the part where she says that Kagami doesn't deserve Adrien. She didn't mean it a romantic way. She pointed out the fact that Kagami let revenge and anger take over her, resulting of her attacking Adrien. 

      You are only blaming Marinette, like how she acts is unforgivable. She is from the human species, just like you, just like your beloved Kagami and just like all the population on Earth. You seem to understand French, and yet, just saying irrational things.

      Can't wait to see the moment where Adrien will finally open his eyes and realize that his fated person was what he previously called a good friend.

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    • Apparently, Paris has reached the point where Akuma attacks are just part of the daily routine, as now they've got an alert system in place for when one shows up.

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    • Maetch wrote:
      Apparently, Paris has reached the point where Akuma attacks are just part of the daily routine, as now they've got an alert system in place for when one shows up.

      Loved that part!

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    • ShinoharaHiroko wrote:wbies.

      Oh boy. Ok, I will stop right here.

      First, stop complaining. You jump to conclusions so easily that it isn't normal. Marinette did take this class to be with Adrien, but not to take Kagami's place. What is so wrong wanting to spend time with the person you love? You are so unrealistic. She is human, for God's sake, and a teenager. She is acting like any 14 years old girl. You are only saying that it is wrong for Marinette to be in love, but it's okay for Kagami. Marinette has very good sides, and you just don't want to see them. I am getting really annoyed by how you just invente reasons to prove you are right about a fact. Marinette didn't take Adrien's side, she did what she thought was right and went with her intuition. Plus, she later confirmed that she was maybe wrong about the winner. But what really made me laugh is how you described Marinette as a newbie. LOL. So you are saying that the girl who is saving Paris everyday, who fights with a freaking yo-yo and who can imagine complexe plans in seconds is a newbie? Please, tell me you're joking. You don't seem to know that if D'Argentcourt knew that Ladybug was in his class, his decision would be as clear as water. And how you compare Marinette to a crazy girl who only wants to show off is getting on my nerves, don't start saying that just to prove that Kagami is the right one for Adrien. She gets nervous, she blushes, she dreams, she tries her best for him, she let him think that her gift to him was from Gabriel, she returned an important book just to give him back his freedom, she saves him, she worries about him, she wants to get to know him, she wants to be with him, she sees him in her future, she defends him, you saw all of this and yet, you only point out her flaws and call her a crazy girl. In other words, you are the hypocritical and insincere one, blaming someone for her flaws and not acknowledging the best of her. 

      I think you didn't get the part where she says that Kagami doesn't deserve Adrien. She didn't mean it a romantic way. She pointed out the fact that Kagami let revenge and anger take over her, resulting of her attacking Adrien. 

      You are only blaming Marinette, like how she acts is unforgivable. She is from the human species, just like you, just like your beloved Kagami and just like all the population on Earth. You seem to understand French, and yet, just saying irrational things.

      Can't wait to see the moment where Adrien will finally open his eyes and realize that his fated person was what he previously called a good friend.

      Sorry, I meant a newbie in fencing, just because she saves Paris everyday with a yo-yo doesn't mean she's good with a sword. Doesn't mean because you're a super hero you're good with everything you gets your hands on. She did good, but she's still new, and Kagami is in a league all of her own with Adrien and Armand D'Argentcourt in fencing, that's what I meant. I didn't mean that Kagami is good for him either, but she hasn't gotten a crush on Adrien yet, so she actually acts sincere and normal around him, which is refreshing, considering Chloé and Marinette do anything at all (even if they hate it or aren't interested in it) as soon as he's in the picture, or Lila who will lies to his face to impress him. I think they try way to hard, and sometimes in negative and unhealthy ways that you don't really show in a tv show for little kids (yes adults watch it too, I am one, and teenagers too, but the target audience is for little kids), but I still get uncomfortable to see some characters go to extreme lenghts (like abusing their powers) to get close to their loved ones. There is still some good ways about it, but sometimes it's just not right. The fact is that Marinette's jealousy is portreyed negatively, but is hardly punished or scolded (sometimes not at all) for it. Or she just get an akuma to defeat because of it and then she apologize, then a few episodes later, she's back at square one. It kind of shows that you can get away with doing all that, she has his entire schedule in her room and isn't given an earful for it. What does that show to the kids who watch that? That's it okay to stalk your crsuh and know where he/she is at everytime of the day, of the year? No! It's not. And she says to Chat Noir she wants her personal life private, but she doesn't bother with Adrien's privacy, except when he's in the shower apparently. *giggles*

      Yes I understand French, it's my first language, I'm french canadian from the province of Québec, english is my second language.

      Also, I said Riposte looked like the Gamer episode, but with differences. I never said Kagami is the right one for Adrien, I just said it's nice to have a love interest who doesn't crush on him being herself with him. Did you read what I wrote? I would side more with Marinette if she would get character development on her crush and how she dealt with her feelings of jealousy better. But since she hasn't yet, I won't for now. I would like that she just see him more as a normal guy than a perfect gloden boy on a pedestal every time she sees him. Adrien knows Ladybug is not perfect and he still likes her all the way, and will call her out if she is in the wrong. Marinette needs to see more side of Adrien, the one who likes to crack jokes and flirt and being tired of always keeping up a perfect facade. She thinks he is perfect but he isn't and I don't think she sees it yet that there is more to him. She should just calm down and be herself, not jump at every little opportunity, even if she doesn't like to, just for him. People in love don't need to always like and dislike the same things, and have all the same interests. I would like to see Marinette's face if Adrien told her that he only does modeling because it makes his father happy but wouldn't make a career out of it, I wonder how she would take it.

      And Ladybug has a good friend in Chat Noir, but sometimes acts so cold to him. Can't wait to see her open her eyes to "just" her partner who would (and did thank you Timebreaker) die for her without a second thought.

      And someone has to actually points Marinette's flaws, seems people forgets them all the time, cause it's just so cute how she goes to any lenght just to be with Adrien, even if she puts other people's feelings in the trash for it. Abusing her powers to get Chloé and Lila off him isn't better than what they do, she has a reputation and people to save. Adrien can save himself from Chloé and Lila. She has good qualities, but they seems to go overboard way to much, she needs to calm down. I never said she didn't have good qualities, but I tend to point more the negative side more often than not, after all she is the protagonist, the world resolves around her, so while many people sings her praises, some people must still point out the things she does wrong. I'm hard on her because people seems to focus on her good qualities more than the negative one, so I counterbalance with the negative. How many negative comments about her do you read on this blog, if you take out mines? Not much. Eve thought her crush on him is cute, sometimes her actions aren't at all. And can't I write my comments about how flawed she is wihout people going overboard with them? 

      Still, like how you defend your favorite character. But don't call me hypocrite or insincere when I don't write half the things I want. I just prefer to go on the negative traits of the female protagonist and lead female of shows because normally while people ship them all the time with the male lead, they have sometimes really nasty traits that can of knock down a peg from that ship some shippers like me. So far the only ship I liked between leads characters in all genres was Harry/Hermione, but still I liked how they ended up too, even if it wasn't with each other. But that's off topic.

      Right now I just say that between Marinette, Chloé, Lila and Kagami, Kagami acts the most normal, is nicer and less aggressive and jealous than the other 3 toward Adrien. Helps that she has no crush yet. You gotta admit that a love interest that isn't interested yet and is just normal and being herself is refreshing, no jealousy. That's all.

      Please don't take my head.

        Loading editor
    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      Sorry, I meant a newbie in fencing, just because she saves Paris everyday with a yo-yo doesn't mean she's good with a sword. Doesn't mean because you're a super hero you're good with everything you gets your hands on. She did good, but she's still new, and Kagami is in a league all of her own with Adrien and Armand D'Argentcourt in fencing, that's what I meant. I didn't mean that Kagami is good for him either, but she hasn't gotten a crush on Adrien yet, so she actually acts sincere and normal around him, which is refreshing, considering Chloé and Marinette do anything at all (even if they hate it or aren't interested in it) as soon as he's in the picture, or Lila who will lies to his face to impress him. I think they try way to hard, and sometimes in negative and unhealthy ways that you don't really show in a tv show for little kids (yes adults watch it too, I am one, and teenagers too, but the target audience is for little kids), but I still get uncomfortable to see some characters go to extreme lenghts (like abusing their powers) to get close to their loved ones. There is still some good ways about it, but sometimes it's just not right. The fact is that Marinette's jealousy is portreyed negatively, but is hardly punished or scolded (sometimes not at all) for it. Or she just get an akuma to defeat because of it and then she apologize, then a few episodes later, she's back at square one. It kind of shows that you can get away with doing all that, she has his entire schedule in her room and isn't given an earful for it. What does that show to the kids who watch that? That's it okay to stalk your crsuh and know where he/she is at everytime of the day, of the year? No! It's not. And she says to Chat Noir she wants her personal life private, but she doesn't bother with Adrien's privacy, except when he's in the shower apparently. *giggles*

      Yes I understand French, it's my first language, I'm french canadian from the province of Québec, english is my second language.

      Also, I said Riposte looked like the Gamer episode, but with differences. I never said Kagami is the right one for Adrien, I just said it's nice to have a love interest who doesn't crush on him being herself with him. Did you read what I wrote? I would side more with Marinette if she would get character development on her crush and how she dealt with her feelings of jealousy better. But since she hasn't yet, I won't for now. I would like that she just see him more as a normal guy than a perfect gloden boy on a pedestal every time she sees him. Adrien knows Ladybug is not perfect and he still likes her all the way, and will call her out if she is in the wrong. Marinette needs to see more side of Adrien, the one who likes to crack jokes and flirt and being tired of always keeping up a perfect facade. She thinks he is perfect but he isn't and I don't think she sees it yet that there is more to him. She should just calm down and be herself, not jump at every little opportunity, even if she doesn't like to, just for him. People in love don't need to always like and dislike the same things, and have all the same interests. I would like to see Marinette's face if Adrien told her that he only does modeling because it makes his father happy but wouldn't make a career out of it, I wonder how she would take it.

      And Ladybug has a good friend in Chat Noir, but sometimes acts so cold to him. Can't wait to see her open her eyes to "just" her partner who would (and did thank you Timebreaker) die for her without a second thought.

      And someone has to actually points Marinette's flaws, seems people forgets them all the time, cause it's just so cute how she goes to any lenght just to be with Adrien, even if she puts other people's feelings in the trash for it. Abusing her powers to get Chloé and Lila off him isn't better than what they do, she has a reputation and people to save. Adrien can save himself from Chloé and Lila. She has good qualities, but they seems to go overboard way to much, she needs to calm down. I never said she didn't have good qualities, but I tend to point more the negative side more often than not, after all she is the protagonist, the world resolves around her, so while many people sings her praises, some people must still point out the things she does wrong. I'm hard on her because people seems to focus on her good qualities more than the negative one, so I counterbalance with the negative. How many negative comments about her do you read on this blog, if you take out mines? Not much. Eve thought her crush on him is cute, sometimes her actions aren't at all. And can't I write my comments about how flawed she is wihout people going overboard with them? 

      Still, like how you defend your favorite character. But don't call me hypocrite or insincere when I don't write half the things I want. I just prefer to go on the negative traits of the female protagonist and lead female of shows because normally while people ship them all the time with the male lead, they have sometimes really nasty traits that can of knock down a peg from that ship some shippers like me. So far the only ship I liked between leads characters in all genres was Harry/Hermione, but still I liked how they ended up too, even if it wasn't with each other. But that's off topic.

      Right now I just say that between Marinette, Chloé, Lila and Kagami, Kagami acts the most normal, is nicer and less aggressive and jealous than the other 3 toward Adrien. Helps that she has no crush yet. You gotta admit that a love interest that isn't interested yet and is just normal and being herself is refreshing, no jealousy. That's all.

      Please don't take my head.

      I also never said she had only good points. Of course, Marinette has some tendencies that are kind of unhealthy, such as abusing of her powers to keep Adrien far from other girls, and I openly point them out. It's just that you are not giving her a chance, even with all her goods sides. I believe that we should enjoy someone by remembering more their qualities rather than their flaws, but all of us can see it differently. You know, it's only the begining, so much is going to happen and Kagami might not be what we think, not saying it's happening but everything can happen. 

      Love is a complex feeling that brings life-time changes into someone's life. Marinette is just begining to experience it and still can't handle it very well, but with time, I am sure she will be someone who thinks for herself and for the people around her, and make good decisions.  Even if you dislike her, we still have a long way with this show, Marinette will improve greatly and won't disappoint you. This also applies to Adrien.

      Chloé is a proof that the characters will have great changes in their lives: She will become a Miraculous holder. That means that she will have to think about others before herself and become the hero that everyone admires. Chloé might be a real struggle right now, but as you can see, if a hated character like her will change, Marinette  will become even greater.

      Don't be too harsh on her! She will still blow your mind, with all these new upcoming characters.


      Also Québécoise from Montreal. Nice to meet you.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      Sorry, I meant a newbie in fencing, just because she saves Paris everyday with a yo-yo doesn't mean she's good with a sword. Doesn't mean because you're a super hero you're good with everything you gets your hands on. She did good, but she's still new, and Kagami is in a league all of her own with Adrien and Armand D'Argentcourt in fencing, that's what I meant. I didn't mean that Kagami is good for him either, but she hasn't gotten a crush on Adrien yet, so she actually acts sincere and normal around him, which is refreshing, considering Chloé and Marinette do anything at all (even if they hate it or aren't interested in it) as soon as he's in the picture, or Lila who will lies to his face to impress him. I think they try way to hard, and sometimes in negative and unhealthy ways that you don't really show in a tv show for little kids (yes adults watch it too, I am one, and teenagers too, but the target audience is for little kids), but I still get uncomfortable to see some characters go to extreme lenghts (like abusing their powers) to get close to their loved ones. There is still some good ways about it, but sometimes it's just not right. The fact is that Marinette's jealousy is portreyed negatively, but is hardly punished or scolded (sometimes not at all) for it. Or she just get an akuma to defeat because of it and then she apologize, then a few episodes later, she's back at square one. It kind of shows that you can get away with doing all that, she has his entire schedule in her room and isn't given an earful for it. What does that show to the kids who watch that? That's it okay to stalk your crsuh and know where he/she is at everytime of the day, of the year? No! It's not. And she says to Chat Noir she wants her personal life private, but she doesn't bother with Adrien's privacy, except when he's in the shower apparently. *giggles*

      Yes I understand French, it's my first language, I'm french canadian from the province of Québec, english is my second language.

      Also, I said Riposte looked like the Gamer episode, but with differences. I never said Kagami is the right one for Adrien, I just said it's nice to have a love interest who doesn't crush on him being herself with him. Did you read what I wrote? I would side more with Marinette if she would get character development on her crush and how she dealt with her feelings of jealousy better. But since she hasn't yet, I won't for now. I would like that she just see him more as a normal guy than a perfect gloden boy on a pedestal every time she sees him. Adrien knows Ladybug is not perfect and he still likes her all the way, and will call her out if she is in the wrong. Marinette needs to see more side of Adrien, the one who likes to crack jokes and flirt and being tired of always keeping up a perfect facade. She thinks he is perfect but he isn't and I don't think she sees it yet that there is more to him. She should just calm down and be herself, not jump at every little opportunity, even if she doesn't like to, just for him. People in love don't need to always like and dislike the same things, and have all the same interests. I would like to see Marinette's face if Adrien told her that he only does modeling because it makes his father happy but wouldn't make a career out of it, I wonder how she would take it.

      And Ladybug has a good friend in Chat Noir, but sometimes acts so cold to him. Can't wait to see her open her eyes to "just" her partner who would (and did thank you Timebreaker) die for her without a second thought.

      And someone has to actually points Marinette's flaws, seems people forgets them all the time, cause it's just so cute how she goes to any lenght just to be with Adrien, even if she puts other people's feelings in the trash for it. Abusing her powers to get Chloé and Lila off him isn't better than what they do, she has a reputation and people to save. Adrien can save himself from Chloé and Lila. She has good qualities, but they seems to go overboard way to much, she needs to calm down. I never said she didn't have good qualities, but I tend to point more the negative side more often than not, after all she is the protagonist, the world resolves around her, so while many people sings her praises, some people must still point out the things she does wrong. I'm hard on her because people seems to focus on her good qualities more than the negative one, so I counterbalance with the negative. How many negative comments about her do you read on this blog, if you take out mines? Not much. Eve thought her crush on him is cute, sometimes her actions aren't at all. And can't I write my comments about how flawed she is wihout people going overboard with them? 

      Still, like how you defend your favorite character. But don't call me hypocrite or insincere when I don't write half the things I want. I just prefer to go on the negative traits of the female protagonist and lead female of shows because normally while people ship them all the time with the male lead, they have sometimes really nasty traits that can of knock down a peg from that ship some shippers like me. So far the only ship I liked between leads characters in all genres was Harry/Hermione, but still I liked how they ended up too, even if it wasn't with each other. But that's off topic.

      Right now I just say that between Marinette, Chloé, Lila and Kagami, Kagami acts the most normal, is nicer and less aggressive and jealous than the other 3 toward Adrien. Helps that she has no crush yet. You gotta admit that a love interest that isn't interested yet and is just normal and being herself is refreshing, no jealousy. That's all.

      Please don't take my head.

      I guess i can agree with you on this one,I actually like the fact that Kagami is not jealous or arragont and dosent even have a crush! I kind of have been waiting for an independent charachter like her in the show for a while now. Though about Lila i do understand she is also a new student and i can also undertsand why she is trying to impress Adrien, though she didnt just impress adrien in Volpina but she also lied to try and impress everyone else. But i do agreee that Kagami is the most normal acting and for me my second choice would be Lila, we don't know much about her. for all we know she could be scared of being bullied or just genreally shy and unconfident inside. (sorry going a little of topic...)

      but yeah i agree with you Chi

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    • ShinoharaHiroko wrote:
      I also never said she had only good points. Of course, Marinette has some tendencies that are kind of unhealthy, such as abusing of her powers to keep Adrien far from other girls, and I openly point them out. It's just that you are not giving her a chance, even with all her goods sides. I believe that we should enjoy someone by remembering more their qualities rather than their flaws, but all of us can see it differently. You know, it's only the begining, so much is going to happen and Kagami might not be what we think, not saying it's happening but everything can happen. 

      Love is a complex feeling that brings life-time changes into someone's life. Marinette is just begining to experience it and still can't handle it very well, but with time, I am sure she will be someone who thinks for herself and for the people around her, and make good decisions.  Even if you dislike her, we still have a long way with this show, Marinette will improve greatly and won't disappoint you. This also applies to Adrien.

      Chloé is a proof that the characters will have great changes in their lives: She will become a Miraculous holder. That means that she will have to think about others before herself and become the hero that everyone admires. Chloé might be a real struggle right now, but as you can see, if a hated character like her will change, Marinette  will become even greater.

      Don't be too harsh on her! She will still blow your mind, with all these new upcoming characters.


      Also Québécoise from Montreal. Nice to meet you.

      Oooohhhh!!! Neighbour! Nice to meet you too! Let's be friends! Are you stalking Téléquébec's website to see when season 2 episodes will air here too? I do. Moi, je suis à Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu. T'es pas loin, toi. :)

      I don't completely hate Marinette, she makes me laugh sometimes and I do find her nice too, but I go more for the flaws because as much as she is the invincible heroine of Paris who wins every battle, even as Marinette, I don't just base her character on her good traits, which are portrayed in such a positive light that I counterbalance by bringing to the forst her nasty ones in quite a negative one to counterbalance, seems weird logic but I understand myself. I'm quite nickpicky about the female leads mostly because of the aggressive and jealous tsunderes (Louise, Akane Tendou, Asuka Langley Soryu, ect) that I'm used to see in anime, so I compare. Now that we had the Ladrien episode, time for Marichat. And to see Luka.

      Also I like Kagami's flaws, she was very upset about losing, still was cordial enough to congradulate Adrien about his victory, and holds her family's view of second chance not existing. Thought she broke it by the end, I liked how she interacted with Adrien. Him searching her on the internet than discovering they have some things in common was great. She was more mad at losing than at Adrien himself I think, he did gave him quite a challenge, so I suppose that she liked his skills, but not losing simply. Probably because she didn't want to disappoint her mother who's a world champion fencer like her grand-father, just like Adrien models because it makes his dad happy. Still has a more relaxing, calm vibe outside of a match. She's aggressive and proud in the game, polite, professional and kinda nice, if a bit reserved and akward, but direct to the point kind of way. As a one way view, but can see other views if you get to her enough. Can't wait to see more of her. Still if she doesn't end with Adrien I want Kagami with Lila or Chloé or the 3 of them together! Blonde, brunette and black haired together. It was Kagami's first episode, so I'm eager to see more of her character, like Lila.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      Oooohhhh!!! Neighbour! Nice to meet you too! Let's be friends! Are you stalking Téléquébec's website to see when season 2 episodes will air here too? I do. Moi, je suis à Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu. T'es pas loin, toi. :)

      I don't completely hate Marinette, she makes me laugh sometimes and I do find her nice too, but I go more for the flaws because as much as she is the invincible heroine of Paris who wins every battle, even as Marinette, I don't just base her character on her good traits, which are portrayed in such a positive light that I counterbalance by bringing to the forst her nasty ones in quite a negative one to counterbalance, seems weird logic but I understand myself. I'm quite nickpicky about the female leads mostly because of the aggressive and jealous tsunderes (Louise, Akane Tendou, Asuka Langley Soryu, ect) that I'm used to see in anime, so I compare. Now that we had the Ladrien episode, time for Marichat. And to see Luka.

      Also I like Kagami's flaws, she was very upset about losing, still was cordial enough to congradulate Adrien about his victory, and holds her family's view of second chance not existing. Thought she broke it by the end, I liked how she interacted with Adrien. Him searching her on the internet than discovering they have some things in common was great. She was more mad at losing than at Adrien himself I think, he did gave him quite a challenge, so I suppose that she liked his skills, but not losing simply. Probably because she didn't want to disappoint her mother who's a world champion fencer like her grand-father, just like Adrien models because it makes his dad happy. Still has a more relaxing, calm vibe outside of a match. She's aggressive and proud in the game, polite, professional and kinda nice, if a bit reserved and akward, but direct to the point kind of way. As a one way view, but can see other views if you get to her enough. Can't wait to see more of her. Still if she doesn't end with Adrien I want Kagami with Lila or Chloé or the 3 of them together! Blonde, brunette and black haired together. It was Kagami's first episode, so I'm eager to see more of her character, like Lila.

      Yes, dear.

      Toujours en train de me demander quand ils vont se décider à diffuser la saison 2. On est toujours les derniers!

      I do understand your arguments and you are right. Marinette has so much to learn, but will improve gradually. I fell in love at first sight with Kagami, and her fencing skills blew up my mind. She's an incredible character and is now my second favorite after Chat Noir.

      But like you said, I want Luka. I read everywhere that he's one handsome boy and can't wait to see him. He seems like a carefree person who likes to live under his own rules. I hope he will be black-haired like his sister, I will fangirling like crazyyy. Can't wait, the suspense is killing me!

      J'espère que nous deviendrons bons amis! Malgré nos différents points de vue, c'est toujours intéressant de discuter avec toi.

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    • ShinoharaHiroko wrote:
      Yes, dear.

      Toujours en train de me demander quand ils vont se décider à diffuser la saison 2. On est toujours les derniers!

      I do understand your arguments and you are right. Marinette has so much to learn, but will improve gradually. I fell in love at first sight with Kagami, and her fencing skills blew up my mind. She's an incredible character and is now my second favorite after Chat Noir.

      But like you said, I want Luka. I read everywhere that he's one handsome boy and can't wait to see him. He seems like a carefree person who likes to live under his own rules. I hope he will be black-haired like his sister, I will fangirling like crazyyy. Can't wait, the suspense is killing me!

      J'espère que nous deviendrons bons amis! Malgré nos différents points de vue, c'est toujours intéressant de discuter avec toi.

      La même chose ici! C'est chouette de pouvoir défendre nos points de vue avec quelqu'un qui le fait avec autant d'ardeur comme toi et moi. Kagami est maintenant mon personnage féminin favori. Elle est trop balèze! Et elle fait toutes ses acrobaties avant de devenir Riposte, je dis respect. Hahaha!

      I want to see Luka too, mostly because he's the opposite of Adrien in looks apparently, so maybe Marinette would leave Adrien for a while to be with Luka while Adrien gets with Kagami.

      I still think that Kagami will get the spot in D'Argentcourt's class, because I think that's why she was in Paris in the first place, plus they said she was a rival in fencing for Adrien, so her not doing any more fencing after her first episode because she lost the spot to fencing would be weird, heck maybe she would leave Paris otherwise. I'm sure D'Argentcourt would let her have a rematch, even thought he said the referee's decision is final, he never said no Adrien's rematch. So I guess she will get it. Maybe Adrien even tells his teacher that she comes from a world champion family of fencers, some people he should be familiar with, and thus would let her on the team, he would be dumb not too. Sorry Marinette, you're the best gamer of the school, but in fencing you still have ways to go before getting to Adrien and Kagami's level. Their battle is proof of that.

      J'espère qu'on sera de bonnes amies. Moi aussi je suis une fille.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      La même chose ici! C'est chouette de pouvoir défendre nos points de vue avec quelqu'un qui le fait avec autant d'ardeur comme toi et moi. Kagami est maintenant mon personnage féminin favori. Elle est trop balèze! Et elle fait toutes ses acrobaties avant de devenir Riposte, je dis respect. Hahaha!

      I want to see Luka too, mostly because he's the opposite of Adrien in looks apparently, so maybe Marinette would leave Adrien for a while to be with Luka while Adrien gets with Kagami.

      I still think that Kagami will get the spot in D'Argentcourt's class, because I think that's why she was in Paris in the first place, plus they said she was a rival in fencing for Adrien, so her not doing any more fencing after her first episode because she lost the spot to fencing would be weird, heck maybe she would leave Paris otherwise. I'm sure D'Argentcourt would let her have a rematch, even thought he said the referee's decision is final, he never said no Adrien's rematch. So I guess she will get it. Maybe Adrien even tells his teacher that she comes from a world champion family of fencers, some people he should be familiar with, and thus would let her on the team, he would be dumb not too. Sorry Marinette, you're the best gamer of the school, but in fencing you still have ways to go before getting to Adrien and Kagami's level. Their battle is proof of that.

      J'espère qu'on sera de bonnes amies. Moi aussi je suis une fille.

      Well, to be honest, I think that Kagami will get that one place. Remember what Marinette did in Gamer, she finally understood that maybe her intentions got in the way of Max's success and gave him her place, she might do the same thing with Kagami and this will maybe mark the begining of their friendship. I actually see Marinette and Kagami as great friends: both strong, very intelligent, they know when to be serious and both acknowledge with honesty their mistakes. I can't wait to see how the story will turn out.

      We still don't know when Luka will appear and I can't wait. I am trying to figure out how his meeting with Marinette will be and if she will start to like him right away, well, maybe not. 

      Thomas is planning 6 seasons or maybe more. We will get so much to discuss about and I can't wait be suprised again. These 5 episodes were extremely good and it's only starting.

      Ce qui est dommage pour nous au Québec, c'est que si on veut écouter les épisodes en direct, on doit se lever à 3h du matin et se taper les pubs avec les yeux à moitié mort. C'est ce que je fais depuis la sortie de la saison en Français! Mais quand on y pense, la saison 1 est sortie en Septembre 2015, mais a été diffusée sur Téléquébec en Mars 2016, soit 7 mois plus tard! Donc je crois qu'on va devoir attendre encore un sacré bout de temps. J'aime pas la version anglophone, la voix d'Adrien me fait pleurer.

      J'ai enfin trouvé une amie qui a la même force que moi quand il s'agit d'argumentation. Il nous reste encore tant à discuter et j'ai très hâte d'entendre ton avis sur les prochains épisodes et les nouveaux personnages, surtout sur Luka. Écris-moi quand tu veux!

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    • I am also one of those who think that Marinette was a bit too good with fencing in this episode. And even though I know some of you don't like these kind of comment, I think that Marinette being good with almost everything she does is starting to get a bit annoying. I mean, she was pretty even match for a person who has probably trained almost decade for now...

      Also what was the point of Adrien to hurt his leg? I could have understood it if the dueling had been more between Riposte and him, giving him a weaker position, but now it was a bit unnecessary detail.

      Otherwise the episode was okay. No the best, but it had its moments. Mari's error with the correct point didn't felt like she was trying to get the free place in the club herself, but a honest mistake where she decided to favour the person she knew better, something majority of people would do. I also loved seeing how Paris has adapted with the constant akuma attaks. It was nice touchs

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    • i dont think that at all. she is clearly just a fast learner. She is kinda like me. she tends to be more talented on the activites side, and not as much on the academic side. but, dont take that as me saying that Marinette isn't smart. she is very smart, especially when fighting akumas. But it seems as if she struggles a tiny bit on the academic side, like me. But we saw in the origins episode just how fast of a learner she was. She was doubtful at first, almost gave up, but she gained determination and a bit of confidence, and bam, she went hardcore. My best firend is an amazing singer, has a full scholarship for a highschool that is over 12,000 dollars, is in band, can dance, draw, write, act, stay up til 1 am every night doing hw and stil manage to make straight A's. It's actually very normal for someone to be talented at a lot of things they do, my example proving that.

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    • Once again, Ladybug doesn't notice a common trait in Cat/Adrien. He hurt his leg as Adrien and then was still limping as Cat. But somehow Ladybug (even though she comments on the limp) doesn't put two and two together. That girl is so love-struck for that boy that she doesn't even notice the most obvious of things. 

      What was that flash when Ladybug looked at the sword? Something happened, but it wasn't used for Miraculous Ladybug vision or anything. It was a little flash of realization, maybe? I'm not sure. Whatever it was, it was odd. They've never had a flash for an akuma location before.

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    • Lightbearer Storycraft wrote:
      Once again, Ladybug doesn't notice a common trait in Cat/Adrien. He hurt his leg as Adrien and then was still limping as Cat. But somehow Ladybug (even though she comments on the limp) doesn't put two and two together. That girl is so love-struck for that boy that she doesn't even notice the most obvious of things. 

      What was that flash when Ladybug looked at the sword? Something happened, but it wasn't used for Miraculous Ladybug vision or anything. It was a little flash of realization, maybe? I'm not sure. Whatever it was, it was odd. They've never had a flash for an akuma location before.

      Well with Ladybug not noticing the trait it can simply be seen as some sort of magic that prevents them from realizing the identiies otherwise Hawkmoth, now that we all know his true identity, would have realized Adrien is chat much much sooner...basically the clark kent/ superman thing where a simple costume change and a pair of glasses easily hides his true appearance. and the creator stated that the characters will be getting new abilites and the flash might be a new ability which allows Ladybug to know the location of the akuma.

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    • ShinoharaHiroko wrote:
      Well, to be honest, I think that Kagami will get that one place. Remember what Marinette did in Gamer, she finally understood that maybe her intentions got in the way of Max's success and gave him her place, she might do the same thing with Kagami and this will maybe mark the begining of their friendship. I actually see Marinette and Kagami as great friends: both strong, very intelligent, they know when to be serious and both acknowledge with honesty their mistakes. I can't wait to see how the story will turn out.

      We still don't know when Luka will appear and I can't wait. I am trying to figure out how his meeting with Marinette will be and if she will start to like him right away, well, maybe not. 

      Thomas is planning 6 seasons or maybe more. We will get so much to discuss about and I can't wait be suprised again. These 5 episodes were extremely good and it's only starting.

      Ce qui est dommage pour nous au Québec, c'est que si on veut écouter les épisodes en direct, on doit se lever à 3h du matin et se taper les pubs avec les yeux à moitié mort. C'est ce que je fais depuis la sortie de la saison en Français! Mais quand on y pense, la saison 1 est sortie en Septembre 2015, mais a été diffusée sur Téléquébec en Mars 2016, soit 7 mois plus tard! Donc je crois qu'on va devoir attendre encore un sacré bout de temps. J'aime pas la version anglophone, la voix d'Adrien me fait pleurer.

      J'ai enfin trouvé une amie qui a la même force que moi quand il s'agit d'argumentation. Il nous reste encore tant à discuter et j'ai très hâte d'entendre ton avis sur les prochains épisodes et les nouveaux personnages, surtout sur Luka. Écris-moi quand tu veux!

      Je te rappelle que même si la saison 1 de Miraculous Ladybug a mis une éternité à venir chez nous, la saison 1 a fini chez nous en premier, la France ainsi que le reste du monde a eu la finale plus tard que nous. Parce que nous c'est le samedi et le dimanche matin, tandis qu'eux n'avait qu'un épisode par semaine. On devrait se faire un chat, et probablement se donner nos noms, on pourrait devenir amies sur Facebook. J'étais à Montréal ce week-end, et j'y retourne pour le Salon du Livre ce mois-çi. On pourrait se rencontrer là et partir sur plein de débats et discussions et remarques et analyses ou sur Facebook aussi. Aussi j'ai trouvé un site ou il diffuse les episodes de la France, faut s'inscrire mais ça coûte rien, et on a tous les épisodes en français jusqu'à date, donc j'ai pas à me lever au milieu de la nuit, juste quand je me lève le matin. Je peux te le donner plus tard.

      I would love to see Kagami getting the place, since she is the best, and it was a mistake from Marinette, not her, that got her eliminated. She should get that place, Marinette was good, but she still has ways to go, and Adrien was being nice with her, he sure isn't with Kagami, otherwise he would have crushed Marinette easily. And while she learns fast to move her blade right, she doesn't know yet how the winning is done, as she's still confused by how the victor is decided. 

      Now on more serious topic: what the heck where Kagami and Adrien's drivers thinking during Riposte's attack? My guess is this:

      Kagami's driver to Kagami's mother on the phone: Maam, you're daughter just turned into a silver samurai, cut the roof of the car and took off. What should I do?

      Adrien's driver to Gabriel: Sir, the car just got cut in half by a silver samurai girl with a sword and she wants to fight Adrien, who just got taken away by Ladybug, what do I do now?

      It's a bad day for the drivers. Hahahaha!

      I still rethink that scene where Riposte figures that Ladybug hided Adrien in the coffin, and when she goes to slice it in half, I imagined Hawk Moth in his lair screaming: Adrien no! Then he sees Adrien is not there and he's just like : Phew! Maybe that's why we don't see him rant much after, he was kind of glad Ladybug and Chat Noir saved his son from being sliced in half by his latest minion.

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    • guys, please only quote the last message. The over quoting thing made things here was horrendous to scroll down. 

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      Je te rappelle que même si la saison 1 de Miraculous Ladybug a mis une éternité à venir chez nous, la saison 1 a fini chez nous en premier, la France ainsi que le reste du monde a eu la finale plus tard que nous. Parce que nous c'est le samedi et le dimanche matin, tandis qu'eux n'avait qu'un épisode par semaine. On devrait se faire un chat, et probablement se donner nos noms, on pourrait devenir amies sur Facebook. J'étais à Montréal ce week-end, et j'y retourne pour le Salon du Livre ce mois-çi. On pourrait se rencontrer là et partir sur plein de débats et discussions et remarques et analyses ou sur Facebook aussi. Aussi j'ai trouvé un site ou il diffuse les episodes de la France, faut s'inscrire mais ça coûte rien, et on a tous les épisodes en français jusqu'à date, donc j'ai pas à me lever au milieu de la nuit, juste quand je me lève le matin. Je peux te le donner plus tard.

      I would love to see Kagami getting the place, since she is the best, and it was a mistake from Marinette, not her, that got her eliminated. She should get that place, Marinette was good, but she still has ways to go, and Adrien was being nice with her, he sure isn't with Kagami, otherwise he would have crushed Marinette easily. And while she learns fast to move her blade right, she doesn't know yet how the winning is done, as she's still confused by how the victor is decided. 

      Now on more serious topic: what the heck where Kagami and Adrien's drivers thinking during Riposte's attack? My guess is this:

      Kagami's driver to Kagami's mother on the phone: Maam, you're daughter just turned into a silver samurai, cut the roof of the car and took off. What should I do?

      Adrien's driver to Gabriel: Sir, the car just got cut in half by a silver samurai girl with a sword and she wants to fight Adrien, who just got taken away by Ladybug, what do I do now?

      It's a bad day for the drivers. Hahahaha!

      I still rethink that scene where Riposte figures that Ladybug hided Adrien in the coffin, and when she goes to slice it in half, I imagined Hawk Moth in his lair screaming: Adrien no! Then he sees Adrien is not there and he's just like : Phew! Maybe that's why we don't see him rant much after, he was kind of glad Ladybug and Chat Noir saved his son from being sliced in half by his latest minion.

      Oui, tu marque un point, Volpina a été diffusé pour la première fois chez nous. Même si ce n'est que la rediffusion de la saison 1, je suis toujours présente devant ma télé à 11:00 AM pour les épisodes du weekend. Et ça tombe bien, je vais à chaque année au Salon du Livre, il faut que je confirme pour cette année mais c'est très probable, j'adore ce salon. Ça me ferait aussi plaisir qu'on deviennent amies sur Facebook pour parler encore plus. Peut-être parler en message sur le wiki pour échanger nos infos.

      I am pretty confident Kagami will get the place, and Marinette not regretting it since she may think that Kagami deserves it, we can't hide the fact that Marinette sees potential in people and acknowledge them with respect, especially someone as strong as Kagami.

      I totally thought the same thing: didn't Kagami's driver think that it might be weird when she was talking to Hawk Moth? That scene was kind of funny and confusing at the same time.

      Robustus is coming out tomorrow. I saw the trailer but I still can't figure out who will be akumatized, so I am assuming that it is the computer. I might be wrong, can't wait to see it. What do you think? I wonder if Kagami will enter the collège in this episode too? If not, she might enter it really soon.

      I am still waiting for Luka. I want Luka noooow.

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    • ShinoharaHiroko wrote:
      Oui, tu marque un point, Volpina a été diffusé pour la première fois chez nous. Même si ce n'est que la rediffusion de la saison 1, je suis toujours présente devant ma télé à 11:00 AM pour les épisodes du weekend. Et ça tombe bien, je vais à chaque année au Salon du Livre, il faut que je confirme pour cette année mais c'est très probable, j'adore ce salon. Ça me ferait aussi plaisir qu'on deviennent amies sur Facebook pour parler encore plus. Peut-être parler en message sur le wiki pour échanger nos infos.

      I am pretty confident Kagami will get the place, and Marinette not regretting it since she may think that Kagami deserves it, we can't hide the fact that Marinette sees potential in people and acknowledge them with respect, especially someone as strong as Kagami.

      I totally thought the same thing: didn't Kagami's driver think that it might be weird when she was talking to Hawk Moth? That scene was kind of funny and confusing at the same time.

      Robustus is coming out tomorrow. I saw the trailer but I still can't figure out who will be akumatized, so I am assuming that it is the computer. I might be wrong, can't wait to see it. What do you think? I wonder if Kagami will enter the collège in this episode too? If not, she might enter it really soon.

      I am still waiting for Luka. I want Luka noooow.

      Hahahaha! Robustus is the little robot, He looks so cute!  I sure thinks Kagami will get the spot. Deserve it, she was pretty much the most hardcore fencer next to Adrien in the episode. Marinette might get there with more practice, but it's clear she's more used to her yo-yo. I'll message you on your wall for my name and all that.

      I hope that while Luka might have the same tastes in clothes as his sister, he will be a cool brother to Juleka. Jalil did seem all right, recognizing 2 girls from his sister class, but it would be great to see more Juleka's relations other than with Rose, maybe she and Luka gets along well. Can't wait to see her again as Reflekta in season 3 along with Riposte and Princess Fragrance.

      I can see the hate that some shippers had for Kagami starting to disappear. Great! She looks too interesting and different from the other love interests to be hated. She's the only one who isn't attracted to Adrien, the only one who doesn't have her hair tied up (too short for that anyway, but she still is a total cutie with that haircut) actually acts normal and doesn't do anything out of her way to make him notice her, she's just being herself the entire time, and we actually get from her episode why she acts the way does, her family's legacy, reputation and standarts that she feels she must live up to,  a bit like Adrien. Still a nice girl, if a little formal and akward like Adrien, she is kind of a female him, but with Marinette's look abit except for the hair, eyes, freckles and personality.

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    • CaseyTheCupcakeQueen234 wrote:
      guys, please only quote the last message. The over quoting thing made things here was horrendous to scroll down. 

      Yeah, I have to second this. It's starting to be a real pain to read this topic with the quotes on quotes on quotes.

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    •  
      Yeah, I have to second this. It's starting to be a real pain to read this topic with the quotes on quotes on quotes.

      Sorry about that.

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    • DarkWizard46 wrote:
      Lightbearer Storycraft wrote:
      Once again, Ladybug doesn't notice a common trait in Cat/Adrien. He hurt his leg as Adrien and then was still limping as Cat. But somehow Ladybug (even though she comments on the limp) doesn't put two and two together. That girl is so love-struck for that boy that she doesn't even notice the most obvious of things. 

      What was that flash when Ladybug looked at the sword? Something happened, but it wasn't used for Miraculous Ladybug vision or anything. It was a little flash of realization, maybe? I'm not sure. Whatever it was, it was odd. They've never had a flash for an akuma location before.

      Well with Ladybug not noticing the trait it can simply be seen as some sort of magic that prevents them from realizing the identiies otherwise Hawkmoth, now that we all know his true identity, would have realized Adrien is chat much much sooner...basically the clark kent/ superman thing where a simple costume change and a pair of glasses easily hides his true appearance. and the creator stated that the characters will be getting new abilites and the flash might be a new ability which allows Ladybug to know the location of the akuma.


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    • Friendly reminder to always watch the episode when it first airs on your place~ and also to shorten your quotes. Seriously.

      Well, Kagami! At first I wasn't really liking Kagami a lot since it seemed like she would only be a rival for Marinette (to the point where she looks just like her) but it seems like she will actually get character development. Still too soon to tell.

      Now into Riposte's powers! First of all, I like how Riposte looks like, and her powers would be pretty usefull. Not only she is extremely agile, but she can also blast a slashing projectile by swinging her arm. Although having a sword on your arm would be uncomfortable, espeially if its your main arm. I think you would need to forcefully un-akumatize yourself if your only good arm is taken over by a sword. It would be terrible, but the power to slice anything would be usefull.

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    • I finally watched this episode! It wasn't with subs, but tomorrow, the English version is supposed to be availabe as dual audio on Disney Spain, so I hope to get a better understandable viewing of it then.

      From my only understanding of the episode based on my eyes, this episode was good, though I feel like I need to understand what's being said to get a stronger attachment to it. Kagami was fantastic. I like her stoic, serious nature, a nice contrast to Marinette, and I like how she and Adrien bonded at the end of the episode. Adrien and Kagami's relationship is one I want to see more of, no matter where it ends up, because the two have so much in common. Really, just throw Adrien, Prince Ali, and Kagami together as a support group of teens in wealthy families with struggles of high expecations, and they'd be a fun bunch.

      The plot as a whole was good too. Maybe it is selfish to only join a fencing group to get closer to Adrien, but Marinette can learn a lot, and I bet she did, at least enough to be able to keep up with Riposte. She has impressive reflexes and quick thinking anyway, so swordfighting is a handy skill to have and it reminds me of past Miraculous holders, like Joan of Arc and La Coccinelle, would have used swords or other non-Miraculous weapons. I'm glad for a bigger role of Armand for an episode, and I appreciate Adrien's intent to set things right with Kagami; even Marinette seems in support, and I hope that means she and Kagami can become friends in the future. I'm not going to act like there isn't frustrations to be had with this episode, like Marinette's involvement with the akumatization (was it really needed? Kagami being beaten by Adrien without outside interference would have still basically had the same story effect), but I don't think they ruin the episode by any means. There's a lot to enjoy here, like the Ladybug/Adrien moments, the first new well-developed teen of this season's debut, and awesome action scenes involving swords.

      As for the common noticing of Marinette having to do with another character's akumatization, to be fair, it didn't seem like Marinette chose out of intention to have Adrien be the shining victory. She look and sounded very uncertain. Sure, there's probably jealousy from her at Kagami throughout the episode that I'm not sure of, but it didn't seem as vemonous as she was with Lila, so fingers crossed that if Adrien and Kagami's relationship develops to be more romantic, it will be a teaching experience that Marinette learns from instead of another "Volpina" fiasco.

      An Tumblr fan made an interesting post about this situation, alongside the akumatization causes in "The Befana" and "Prime Queen", that makes fair points that while Marinette was at fault in these characters, so where the akumatized characters themselves in their (sometimes good, sometimes questionable) actions. Also, we may not be sure who won, as while Adrien may have felt like he was hit first, there's not certainty either way. Whatever the case, while I wish for future episodes where Marinette either isn't at fault in any way or where Adrien/other characters are (thank goodness for "Robostus"!), I don't blame her for how she reacted, nor do I blame Adrien or Kagami.

      I'll probably post again after I see the episode in English, but from what I saw, this episode is enjoyable, and I'm interested to see where Kagami's character goes from here, along with her relationship with the main duo. Also, while we make it a joke, I wonder how much longer it'll be before Adrien's oblivousness to Marinette's feelings and seeing themselves as friends only either discourages Marinette or hurts their relationship in one way or another.

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    • Tansyflower wrote:

      The plot as a whole was good too. Maybe it is selfish to only join a fencing group to get closer to Adrien, but Marinette can learn a lot, and I bet she did, at least enough to be able to keep up with Riposte. She has impressive reflexes and quick thinking anyway, so swordfighting is a handy skill to have and it reminds me of past Miraculous holders, like Joan of Arc and La Coccinelle, would have used swords or other non-Miraculous weapons. I'm glad for a bigger role of Armand for an episode, and I appreciate Adrien's intent to set things right with Kagami; even Marinette seems in support, and I hope that means she and Kagami can become friends in the future. I'm not going to act like there isn't frustrations to be had with this episode, like Marinette's involvement with the akumatization (was it really needed? Kagami being beaten by Adrien without outside interference would have still basically had the same story effect), but I don't think they ruin the episode by any means. There's a lot to enjoy here, like the Ladybug/Adrien moments, the first new well-developed teen of this season's debut, and awesome action scenes involving swords.

      As for the common noticing of Marinette having to do with another character's akumatization, to be fair, it didn't seem like Marinette chose out of intention to have Adrien be the shining victory. She look and sounded very uncertain. Sure, there's probably jealousy from her at Kagami throughout the episode that I'm not sure of, but it didn't seem as vemonous as she was with Lila, so fingers crossed that if Adrien and Kagami's relationship develops to be more romantic, it will be a teaching experience that Marinette learns from instead of another "Volpina" fiasco.

      An Tumblr fan made an interesting post about this situation, alongside the akumatization causes in "The Befana" and "Prime Queen", that makes fair points that while Marinette was at fault in these characters, so where the akumatized characters themselves in their (sometimes good, sometimes questionable) actions. Also, we may not be sure who won, as while Adrien may have felt like he was hit first, there's not certainty either way. Whatever the case, while I wish for future episodes where Marinette either isn't at fault in any way or where Adrien/other characters are (thank goodness for "Robostus"!), I don't blame her for how she reacted, nor do I blame Adrien or Kagami.

      I'll probably post again after I see the episode in English, but from what I saw, this episode is enjoyable, and I'm interested to see where Kagami's character goes from here, along with her relationship with the main duo. Also, while we make it a joke, I wonder how much longer it'll be before Adrien's oblivousness to Marinette's feelings and seeing themselves as friends only either discourages Marinette or hurts their relationship in one way or another.

      I'm not sure if i'd call it selfish or not. I mean, learning about someone else's interests isn't that selfish, is it? She knows Adrien is really passionate about fencing.

      If I had one complaint with this season, it's the way Marinette is being portrayed. I feel like someone on the writing staff really hates her and wants to make her into a bad person because she's so much colder and meaner this season and causes more problems than she ever did. From what I could glean (I didn't get subs when I saw it), D'Argencourt was pressuring her to give an answer so she just said "Adrien?" because she doesn't want Adrien to be upset with her (and this was the answer D'Argencourt seemed to want to hear), but Kagami seems to despise losing and threw a tantrum. I wasn't that impressed with her, she's just as awful in my opinion as Marinette's being painted as this season (save for "Robostus"), but maybe understanding what's being said might change that. I really don't know if I care to see Kagami (again, as of now I can't say I like her, but I also don't understand any of her dialogue). I don't think anyone was at fault for Kagami's akumatisation right now, except maybe Kagami, who just showed up out of the blue for a fencing match, and D'Argencourt, who seemed certain she couldn't beat his best student. But again, I'm only going off what I could see. But I wasn't too interested in the episode, unlike with "Robostus" which I also didn't understand a word of. Part of it might be the way people treat and treated Kagami and how she fed the hatred for Marinette I see.

      Well, he'll hopefully figure out her feelings in "Troublemaker" since it'd be hard for him to deny it with what we know about the episode. What he'll do with that knowledge, though... that's interesting. Probably try and discourage them, considering Ladybug and if they want to tease the idea he might be interested in Kagami.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      I'm not sure if i'd call it selfish or not. I mean, learning about someone else's interests isn't that selfish, is it? She knows Adrien is really passionate about fencing.

      If I had one complaint with this season, it's the way Marinette is being portrayed. I feel like someone on the writing staff really hates her and wants to make her into a bad person because she's so much colder and meaner this season and causes more problems than she ever did. From what I could glean (I didn't get subs when I saw it), D'Argencourt was pressuring her to give an answer so she just said "Adrien?" because she doesn't want Adrien to be upset with her (and this was the answer D'Argencourt seemed to want to hear), but Kagami seems to despise losing and threw a tantrum. I wasn't that impressed with her, she's just as awful in my opinion as Marinette's being painted as this season (save for "Robostus"), but maybe understanding what's being said might change that. I really don't know if I care to see Kagami (again, as of now I can't say I like her, but I also don't understand any of her dialogue). I don't think anyone was at fault for Kagami's akumatisation right now, except maybe Kagami, who just showed up out of the blue for a fencing match, and D'Argencourt, who seemed certain she couldn't beat his best student. But again, I'm only going off what I could see. But I wasn't too interested in the episode, unlike with "Robostus" which I also didn't understand a word of. Part of it might be the way people treat and treated Kagami and how she fed the hatred for Marinette I see.

      Well, he'll hopefully figure out her feelings in "Troublemaker" since it'd be hard for him to deny it with what we know about the episode. What he'll do with that knowledge, though... that's interesting. Probably try and discourage them, considering Ladybug and if they want to tease the idea he might be interested in Kagami.

      That's a fair way of looking at the fencing, with truth I can't deny. It doesn't seem to be from a selfish place, and there is nothing wrong with wanting to learn someone's interests.

      In the case with Kagami, from what translation snippets I have seen, it sounds like she was upset from both her loss because of her own tarnished pride and her desire to live up to the family legacy (she tells Adrien she doesn't get a second chance). It does seem like the realizes her error some and apologizes to Adrien at the end, though, so at least there's development there. I wonder how she will seem in the next episode she appears in; that could either make it eaiser to like or dislike her depending on where each person initially thinks of her.

      As for Marinette's portrayal, at least in those three episodes that ended up in a row, I agree. It's personal history time! The first animated series that I joined the wiki for and eventually became a staff member for was Randy Cunningham: 9th Grade Ninja. Ironically, a huge part of the series was a villain who corrupted students and other people into monsters whenever they were having negative emotions, and the hero needed to destroy the object infected in order to revert them back to normal (sometimes not-so-literal). Anyways, one of my biggest pet peeves with the show was how many times the titular protagonist and his best friend, Howard, caused the monster transformations. One or both of their selfish actions created often created villains based on their own selfish or uncaring actions. I wouldn't mind this so much if this didn't happen so often, even in the more-recurring episodes where they fought robots from another villain. There are ways to emotionally and narritively connect the main character to the villain without making them the bad guy, and it's hard to feel supportive of the good guys when they're the only ones allowed to cause the villains instead of being flawed outside the villain.

      My rambling point is that while I'm trying to play it off, seeing Marinette do this same thing, even if it's not as direct and not as selfishly motivated is causing quite the strained smile and twitching eye. I hate when emotion-causing transformed villains are caused too often by the main character because it makes it seem like the main character's flaws always connect to the creation of their own villains and that they are the real problem. Honestly, I also dislike when one character causes a majority of the bad guys – yes, that includes both Marinette and Chloé – because a story like this can be more interesting. Even the nicest of people can mess up and hurt others, and even the most harmless-seeming actions can cause negative emotions. I wish this story, so attached to the theme of emotions and self-control, would play around with this more. I don't mind if Marinette occasionally causes them; it makes for interesting plots. I don't mind if Marinette is flawed either, as I don't want to be behind a perfect character who can't grow and improve continuously. However, it's ridiculous to keep tying Marinette and her flaws to the villain when her flaws can be show outside the villain while dealing with them and someone else's flaws can be shown creating the villain, whether intentionally or (which is more interesting in my eyes) unintentionally. This is why I crave Adrien creating a villain for once on his own, or maybe another good character like Alya. People are complicated, situations are complicated, and emotions are complicated, so limiting a lot of akumatizations to the main character not only makes it harder to cheer her own without facepalming, but it also makes it more frustrating that there is a bias to the main character causing them and the other characters aren't getting mixed in with new and interesting ways more.

      Whew, sorry on that. Anyway, I'm curious on "Troublemaker" too with the "just friends" aspect. Honestly, I would like for Adrien to eventually realize that Marinette has more feelings for him and him having to deal with it. I can forgive the superhero-civilian love square craziness for now and a longer time, but the show can't keep Adrien as oblivious forever, neither can it keep Ladybug ignorant. While I don't want a full flip-other (Marinette loves Cat Noir), and I don't mind the reveal being aways away for a long time, Adrien can't stay that oblivious forever with all of these hard-to-miss, strongly emphasized romantic moments going on... can he?

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    • Tansyflower wrote:

      In the case with Kagami, from what translation snippets I have seen, it sounds like she was upset from both her loss because of her own tarnished pride and her desire to live up to the family legacy (she tells Adrien she doesn't get a second chance). It does seem like the realizes her error some and apologizes to Adrien at the end, though, so at least there's development there. I wonder how she will seem in the next episode she appears in; that could either make it eaiser to like or dislike her depending on where each person initially thinks of her.

      As for Marinette's portrayal, at least in those three episodes that ended up in a row, I agree. It's personal history time! The first animated series that I joined the wiki for and eventually became a staff member for was Randy Cunningham: 9th Grade Ninja. Ironically, a huge part of the series was a villain who corrupted students and other people into monsters whenever they were having negative emotions, and the hero needed to destroy the object infected in order to revert them back to normal (sometimes not-so-literal). Anyways, one of my biggest pet peeves with the show was how many times the titular protagonist and his best friend, Howard, caused the monster transformations. One or both of their selfish actions created often created villains based on their own selfish or uncaring actions. I wouldn't mind this so much if this didn't happen so often, even in the more-recurring episodes where they fought robots from another villain. There are ways to emotionally and narritively connect the main character to the villain without making them the bad guy, and it's hard to feel supportive of the good guys when they're the only ones allowed to cause the villains instead of being flawed outside the villain.

      My rambling point is that while I'm trying to play it off, seeing Marinette do this same thing, even if it's not as direct and not as selfishly motivated is causing quite the strained smile and twitching eye. I hate when emotion-causing transformed villains are caused too often by the main character because it makes it seem like the main character's flaws always connect to the creation of their own villains and that they are the real problem. Honestly, I also dislike when one character causes a majority of the bad guys – yes, that includes both Marinette and Chloé – because a story like this can be more interesting. Even the nicest of people can mess up and hurt others, and even the most harmless-seeming actions can cause negative emotions. I wish this story, so attached to the theme of emotions and self-control, would play around with this more. I don't mind if Marinette occasionally causes them; it makes for interesting plots. I don't mind if Marinette is flawed either, as I don't want to be behind a perfect character who can't grow and improve continuously. However, it's ridiculous to keep tying Marinette and her flaws to the villain when her flaws can be show outside the villain while dealing with them and someone else's flaws can be shown creating the villain, whether intentionally or (which is more interesting in my eyes) unintentionally. This is why I crave Adrien creating a villain for once on his own, or maybe another good character like Alya. People are complicated, situations are complicated, and emotions are complicated, so limiting a lot of akumatizations to the main character not only makes it harder to cheer her own without facepalming, but it also makes it more frustrating that there is a bias to the main character causing them and the other characters aren't getting mixed in with new and interesting ways more.

      Whew, sorry on that. Anyway, I'm curious on "Troublemaker" too with the "just friends" aspect. Honestly, I would like for Adrien to eventually realize that Marinette has more feelings for him and him having to deal with it. I can forgive the superhero-civilian love square craziness for now and a longer time, but the show can't keep Adrien as oblivious forever, neither can it keep Ladybug ignorant. While I don't want a full flip-other (Marinette loves Cat Noir), and I don't mind the reveal being aways away for a long time, Adrien can't stay that oblivious forever with all of these hard-to-miss, strongly emphasized romantic moments going on... can he?

      Mh, yeah, that's vaguely what I get from people talking about her as well, but i'm just not sure I like her right now.

      Well, I would call that a coincidence, not irony, but I see your point, heh. I think why they keep picking Marinette is because of something I've complained of before- she is not tied into the plot. She could easily be replaced by Rose and the story would loes nothing, because Marinette herself is not personally engaged with the plot. Ladybug is, but Marinette is not. I think having her cause so many akumatisations is meant to cover that up. But it's not the same thing. It's like putting a piece of cardboard over a hole- sure it appears to work, but you put pressure on it and you still twist your ankle in the hole in the ground. I'd like to see other people in the class cause akumatisations aside from Chloe and Marinette. Cuz as it stands, none of them have been directly responsible for akumatisation. Adrien you can argue was at fault for the Collector, epecially if he knows Adrien is Cat Noir and assumed that's why Adrien took the book.

      I definitely want to see more people be responsible for akumatisations than just Marinette and Chloe (though I did get a kick out of how Hawk Moth just expect Chloe to be an awful person in "Despair Bear"). Rose is one I'd like to see be a cause once. Like maybe she could cause Ms Mendeleiev's somehow.

      I just really want the show to stop being afraid if having Marinette develop as a character for the better. They either have her have aesop amensia, or her personality takes a nosedive and doesn't recover (like in "Prime Queen", where she was ridiculously mean to Cat Noir). I think that's another reason why she's always at fault- they are afraid to change her character for the better and have her improve. And that fear paired with failing to understand how to personally engage her with the storyline is making some people utterly despise Marinette at worst, and have a hard time cheering for her at best.

      Don't apologise- I totally agree with you on everything and I always love your input. Ladybug I think doesn't want to admit Cat Noir is in love with her, because she has a very rigid setup for their relationship. It's a strictly professional one with little to no personal feelings attached. It's why I think she cannot see Cat Noir is remotely similar to Adrien. Tikki enforces the rule and Marinette abides strictly to it. With Adrien, he might be unwilling to see it because he doesn't want to have to let her down or he doesn't want that kind of attention to Adrien. He's also rarely seen Marinette not awkward around him, so he either thinks that's part of how she acts or thinks maybe she's nervous around him because he's a celebrity. She is similarly awkward around Gabriel, after all. With her calming down, he may think she's getting used to him. I also think maybe he knows who Ladybug is, or suspects as much, and can't see she likes him because of how dismissive she is of Cat Noir. I mean it's not likely, but it's possible.

      I don't think I'd mind if the love square stopped at a point where Ladybug/Marinette was attracted to both Adrien and Cat Noir, and/or where Cat Noir/Adrien was attracted to both Marinette and Ladybug.

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    • The episode is basically Marinette joining fencing for Adrien, Kagami wants the place because she's here to fence, Marinette gets elected to judge the match despite having no idea who won, picks Adrien, even after she thinks she messed up, Kagami congradulate Adrien then leave, Adrien ask for a rematch, Kagami declines, saying second chances don't exist in her family, then leave and tells her mom she won't get to D'Argentcourt school, Adrien's follow her, she gets akumatized and accepts his rematch, while he says he can't fight her since she's not herself, Hawk Moth prevents Riposte to kill Adrien, Adrien saves Ladybug from being impaled but sprains his ankle in the process, they hide in the Louvres, Adrien goes into the fray as Chat Noir, Riposte ripped in peace Adrien's previous hiding place, scaring the daylights of Ladybug (and probably Hawk Moth too), Ladybug and Chat Noir wins, Kagami and Adrien bonds, Adrien explain to Kagami that Marinette never fenced before today, hence why he thinks she couldn't judge the match fairly, as he knows she wasn't sure completely since she wasn't sure before when fencing with him, hence why he ask for a rematch with a judge that can actually see who wins, Kagami ask if Adrien likes Marinette, he says she's a good friend, Kagami says she would be honored to meet his friend Marinette, and she knows who it is, and then they introduce themselves, then Kagami tells him to prepare himself for their rematch, Adrien says he can't wait, and she leaves. 

      Seems Kagami was just upset because she thought she wasn't good enough to meet her mom's expectations, and with her saying that second chances don't exist in her family, so she was more mad at herself for failing and making her mother disappointed, but she was cordial with Adrien, just saying that it wasn't necessary to have a rematch, second chances don't exist in her family, then says good-bye, and then she gets in the car before getting akumatized. Still I argue that Hawk Moth akuma's amplified her emotions, plus might have drove her sanity and reasonning away like with all the previous villains, after all Timebreaker had no problem erasing her classmates from time just to save her watch, so her attitude as Riposte is almost normal. Adrien is right when he told her she wasn't herself. The villains all have their negative emotions amplified, and we all know we are never thinking straight when we are enraged, so her not thinking about Adrien's life and all that is kind of a given, she is not alright. Plus they don't know what they did when they turn back to normal. After everything was over, Kagami apologized by bowing to Adrien, saying she was sorry. Still decided that Marinette was someone she would like to know and gets a friend in Adrien and accepts his rematch. I find her quite nice, she just shoulders her family's expectation like Adrien with his father's just like Adrien: being professional, formal, polite and not to emotional much at first, but you can see she's nice underneath all. She must have a strict and disciplined upbringing coming from an olympic world champions family of fencer, I mean look at all the thing she does during her matches with Adrien. She does seems a bit more outgoing and aggressive when in a match, taunting Adrien as she asked him if that was all he could do, but outside of a match she's more reserved. I love her. And I think the writers were more careful with her, after Lila, here we get why she acts like that, some background and actually more depths in her character, learning from her mistake, apologizing and being more nice and approchable after some talking. Finally Adrien had a normal relation with a love interest, plus said love interest just sees him as a friend for now, she didn't developed a crush yet, hence she's completely normal and doesn't do anything outside her character to make him like her or anything, he just like her the way she is, and she appreciate his gestures and kindness, and they become friends. So their relationship is actually not rushed at all, they starts friends, and while Adrien seems to find her cute, he acts normal, if a little awkard but not much, while Kagami is natural all the way. It was great. Their relationship is sure to develop more, but for now it goes realistically. My favorite episode of season 2 until now, Despair Bear and Prime Queen right after.

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    • Honestly, Marinette acted pretty disgustingly in this episode. Joining fencing just to get closer to Adrien is weirdly ok, but she shattered the dreams of a girl whose family specialized in fencing by lying. Just so that she could actually join fencing.

      It would be intresting if Kagami actually stayed in the school and her relationship with the two became deeper.

      Maybe she would find out.

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    • CalimTheCrystalGem wrote:
      Honestly, Marinette acted pretty disgustingly in this episode. Joining fencing just to get closer to Adrien is weirdly ok, but she shattered the dreams of a girl whose family specialized in fencing by lying. Just so that she could actually join fencing.

      It would be intresting if Kagami actually stayed in the school and her relationship with the two became deeper.

      Maybe she would find out.

      she isn't lying to get into the fancing team, though? She admids that she wasn't sure about the win, it was her first day fancing and said from the beginning that she only thinks  (not knows) that it was adrien who won. just a couple of minutes before the fight adrien needed to explain her the basic rules, so she clearly doesn't have enough knowledge to judge a fight, but d'argencourt pushed her asnwer because he wanted his student to win. it's really clear how uncertain marinette was and she didn't even know about kagami's family background. 

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    • Watching the episode myself now in English, Kagami had no business charging in and demanding to be let in the Academy while everyone already there had signed up for the tryouts. What she did was unquestionably very rude and disrespectful to the other applicants. She obviously was going to win, because the other students there were not experienced fencers. Kagami was not being fair. Also, I laughed at how Marinette gushed to Adrien about Adrien and he just let her ramble.

      Marinette makes it very clear multiple times before the match between Kagami and Adrien that she does not understand the touching thing in fencing. She questions both times when they're using the machine about who touches first and how that works. Marinette does not understand the idea of abstaining from making a choice, and I can see how she would think Adrien touched first, because his sabre is bent more than hers is. Tikki doesn't even question what Marinette said like she normally would. I was totally expecting her to question Marinette. She didn't lie.

      Additionally, Marinette did not know Kagami was a girl, nor did she know anything aout her other than she just burst in and staked a claim on the spot Marinette and the others were vying for, so jealousy is not why she said it was Adrien. I don't think she was thinking about how Kagami was going to be in the D'Argencourt Academy if she won (and it wasn't even guarenteed she would if she won), she was just saying what she thought was true. She even agrees she made a bad call. I do have a problem with her constantly calling Riposte "that girl", though, but I guess she's doing it because she's talking to civilian Adrien and not fellow superhero Cat Noir. And I think it helps humanise the akumas to have them repeatedl referred to as human.

      I honestly thought this was one of her best episodes of the season. In "Prime Queen" she's incredibly mean, but here? She made a mistake. She even admits she did and that her call was bad.

      I really enjoyed this episode because of the interactions between Adrien and Marinette/Ladybug. They're both much calmer around each other, and Marinette stutters because he caught her off-guard praising him, not out of nerves. I also liked how Adrien again asks her about Cat Noir, and she praises him, and the cute banter between Ladybug and Cat Noir. In "Prime Queen" or "Volpina", she would have bitten his head off for being late, but here she just playfully needles him. I'm still not Kagami's hugest fan, but I definitely like her more now that I've heard the episode in English and understood her dialogue. I could maybe get behind her developing an attraction to Ladybug, I guess, but it's too early for me to ship her with anyone because there's really no grounds for it. I don't despise Marinette like some people do, so I'm not going to ship her with Adrien out of that.

      I don't understand how anyone can think badly of Marinette in this episode, especially saying her attitude throughout it was poor. If this was "Prime Queen" or "Volpina" I would agree. But here? Marinette makes a mistake, she owns up to it, she didn't mean to humiliate Kagami, and she may apologise when she properly meets her later. Like with Lila, I would prefer Kagami be a recurring character who isn't in Miss Bustier's class, but we see her often enough, like on Adrien's Friday fencing classes. That's all she needs to get closer to Adrien, though she seems more interested in Marinette.

      I wonder what Adrien was going to say to her between the exhange about him hating to be locked up and Cat Noir. 

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    • I saw the episode in English too, and I have a much better impression of it afterwards, honestly really enjoying it and what it sets up. Marinette made the wrong call, but it wasn't out of jealousy or malice, especially as she and others (for some reason) couldn't recognize that Kagami was a girl. She had her brief moments of jealousy, but she overall meant well, feeling bad about making the wrong call with the match's winner and encouraging Adrien to make up with Kagami by suggesting he take the saber back to her, even though it was Adrien's plan anyway. "Prime Queen" suffered from trying to justify Ladybug's decision to stop the interview, a fair point in reporters not respecting her privacy, but it does come off a mean-spirited on her part. Here, it feels right. Her actions aren't perfect, but she knows that, and the moments sprinkled in are good reminders that she is flawed yet moreso determined to do the right thing.

      Personally, I really like Kagami, and her English voice was a good match (though I personally found all the English acting in this episode to be particularly good). As someone who struggles to feel like she's good enough for her family, I can understand why Kagami took her loss so badly. While no indication in this episode, I hope she learns how to handle loss better, but at least she apologized for her dramatic behavior, both her prideful introduction and depressed reaction to her failure. She also is openly willing to forgive Marinette and wants to befriend her, a nice gesture on her part. This is a character that I want to see more of and get to know her better. Assuming the synopses are correct that Adrien will start getting more attracted to her, I can see why, but I appreciate that Kagami is a character first and a love interest/rival second. Mostly, I want to see her get closer to Adrien but also befriend Marinette, forcing Marinette to have a less easy time being upset she is getting Adrien's affections or showing affection to him like she does with Chloé and Lila.

      Speaking of Kagami, I like that she's confirmed to have a mother only, at least currently, which gives her more connection to Adrien and even Chloé. We know both Lila and Kagami are coming back soon, so I'm curious to start seeing these new students – along with the upcoming Luka – interact more with other students outside of Marinette/Ladybug and Adrien/Cat Noir.

      One more thing to throw in: I like the bigger use of the emotional music outside of situations related to Marinette and Adrien, both here when Adrien and Kagami make up and in "Robostus" with Max. It's like the show is starting to acknowledge the deeper moments with characters outside of the main duo by showing others who are upset and needing of resolution. I appreciate the character expansion going on here in the emotional sense.

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    • I'm definitely very excited to see how Kagami's character develops!

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    • Tansyflower wrote:
      I saw the episode in English too, and I have a much better impression of it afterwards, honestly really enjoying it and what it sets up. Marinette made the wrong call, but it wasn't out of jealousy or malice, especially as she and others (for some reason) couldn't recognize that Kagami was a girl. She had her brief moments of jealousy, but she overall meant well, feeling bad about making the wrong call with the match's winner and encouraging Adrien to make up with Kagami by suggesting he take the saber back to her, even though it was Adrien's plan anyway. "Prime Queen" suffered from trying to justify Ladybug's decision to stop the interview, a fair point in reporters not respecting her privacy, but it does come off a mean-spirited on her part. Here, it feels right. Her actions aren't perfect, but she knows that, and the moments sprinkled in are good reminders that she is flawed yet moreso determined to do the right thing.

      Personally, I really like Kagami, and her English voice was a good match (though I personally found all the English acting in this episode to be particularly good). As someone who struggles to feel like she's good enough for her family, I can understand why Kagami took her loss so badly. While no indication in this episode, I hope she learns how to handle loss better, but at least she apologized for her dramatic behavior, both her prideful introduction and depressed reaction to her failure. She also is openly willing to forgive Marinette and wants to befriend her, a nice gesture on her part. This is a character that I want to see more of and get to know her better. Assuming the synopses are correct that Adrien will start getting more attracted to her, I can see why, but I appreciate that Kagami is a character first and a love interest/rival second. Mostly, I want to see her get closer to Adrien but also befriend Marinette, forcing Marinette to have a less easy time being upset she is getting Adrien's affections or showing affection to him like she does with Chloé and Lila.

      Speaking of Kagami, I like that she's confirmed to have a mother only, at least currently, which gives her more connection to Adrien and even Chloé. We know both Lila and Kagami are coming back soon, so I'm curious to start seeing these new students – along with the upcoming Luka – interact more with other students outside of Marinette/Ladybug and Adrien/Cat Noir.

      One more thing to throw in: I like the bigger use of the emotional music outside of situations related to Marinette and Adrien, both here when Adrien and Kagami make up and in "Robostus" with Max. It's like the show is starting to acknowledge the deeper moments with characters outside of the main duo by showing others who are upset and needing of resolution. I appreciate the character expansion going on here in the emotional sense.

      Well it wasn't just how she treated Nadja, it was how she acted towards Cat Noir after that until Alya was threatened.

      Kagami's voice I like equally in both dubs, they suit her. Plagg's makes the French dub hard to enjoy, though. I do like how Kagami is a a nice foil to Lila. She's honest and willing to forgive Marinette, especially once she understood Marinette's situation and is willing to make friends with her. I definitely wouldn't mind seeing more of Kagami (Lila, on the other hand...) but I feel like I don't want to see her a lot. I feel she's meant to be somewhat of a mystery, so repeated appearances would ruin that. Also I still think her design is creepy. I'm not a fan of the Adrien/Kagami pairing right now, and I think I'd rather see her interested in him solely as a good friend. And I really would like to see her be friends with Marinette. Like... unpopular opinion, I'd really like to see Kagami be a kind of matchmaker for Adrien and Marinette, but not in an over-the-top way like Alya can be, just someone who encourages them both. She already seems to have the impression Adrien has some feelings for Marinette and it shouldn't be hard to realise Marinette likes Adrien, although she's calmed down significantly and acts quite normal around him. I would even like it if Kagami had her own crush on one of them (or Ladybug/Cat Noir) and was encouraging them besides that, and there was like, no angst about it. She just wants her friends to be happy. Something warm and fuzzy is how I see it in my head. I really would like to see Adrien and Marinette have more good friends outside each other, Nino, and Alya.

      What is it about rich kids in this show and having only one parent?

      Speaking of Lila, it is very strange how she's not in the "Day of Heroes" thing, now I think about it. I wonder why?

      I am delighted, too, that Season 2 is more character-focused.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Tansyflower wrote:
      I saw the episode in English too, and I have a much better impression of it afterwards, honestly really enjoying it and what it sets up. Marinette made the wrong call, but it wasn't out of jealousy or malice, especially as she and others (for some reason) couldn't recognize that Kagami was a girl. She had her brief moments of jealousy, but she overall meant well, feeling bad about making the wrong call with the match's winner and encouraging Adrien to make up with Kagami by suggesting he take the saber back to her, even though it was Adrien's plan anyway. "Prime Queen" suffered from trying to justify Ladybug's decision to stop the interview, a fair point in reporters not respecting her privacy, but it does come off a mean-spirited on her part. Here, it feels right. Her actions aren't perfect, but she knows that, and the moments sprinkled in are good reminders that she is flawed yet moreso determined to do the right thing.

      Personally, I really like Kagami, and her English voice was a good match (though I personally found all the English acting in this episode to be particularly good). As someone who struggles to feel like she's good enough for her family, I can understand why Kagami took her loss so badly. While no indication in this episode, I hope she learns how to handle loss better, but at least she apologized for her dramatic behavior, both her prideful introduction and depressed reaction to her failure. She also is openly willing to forgive Marinette and wants to befriend her, a nice gesture on her part. This is a character that I want to see more of and get to know her better. Assuming the synopses are correct that Adrien will start getting more attracted to her, I can see why, but I appreciate that Kagami is a character first and a love interest/rival second. Mostly, I want to see her get closer to Adrien but also befriend Marinette, forcing Marinette to have a less easy time being upset she is getting Adrien's affections or showing affection to him like she does with Chloé and Lila.

      Speaking of Kagami, I like that she's confirmed to have a mother only, at least currently, which gives her more connection to Adrien and even Chloé. We know both Lila and Kagami are coming back soon, so I'm curious to start seeing these new students – along with the upcoming Luka – interact more with other students outside of Marinette/Ladybug and Adrien/Cat Noir.

      One more thing to throw in: I like the bigger use of the emotional music outside of situations related to Marinette and Adrien, both here when Adrien and Kagami make up and in "Robostus" with Max. It's like the show is starting to acknowledge the deeper moments with characters outside of the main duo by showing others who are upset and needing of resolution. I appreciate the character expansion going on here in the emotional sense.

      Well it wasn't just how she treated Nadja, it was how she acted towards Cat Noir after that until Alya was threatened.

      Kagami's voice I like equally in both dubs, they suit her. Plagg's makes the French dub hard to enjoy, though. I do like how Kagami is a a nice foil to Lila. She's honest and willing to forgive Marinette, especially once she understood Marinette's situation and is willing to make friends with her. I definitely wouldn't mind seeing more of Kagami (Lila, on the other hand...) but I feel like I don't want to see her a lot. I feel she's meant to be somewhat of a mystery, so repeated appearances would ruin that. Also I still think her design is creepy. I'm not a fan of the Adrien/Kagami pairing right now, and I think I'd rather see her interested in him solely as a good friend. And I really would like to see her be friends with Marinette. Like... unpopular opinion, I'd really like to see Kagami be a kind of matchmaker for Adrien and Marinette, but not in an over-the-top way like Alya can be, just someone who encourages them both. She already seems to have the impression Adrien has some feelings for Marinette and it shouldn't be hard to realise Marinette likes Adrien, although she's calmed down significantly and acts quite normal around him. I would even like it if Kagami had her own crush on one of them (or Ladybug/Cat Noir) and was encouraging them besides that, and there was like, no angst about it. She just wants her friends to be happy. Something warm and fuzzy is how I see it in my head. I really would like to see Adrien and Marinette have more good friends outside each other, Nino, and Alya.

      What is it about rich kids in this show and having only one parent?

      Speaking of Lila, it is very strange how she's not in the "Day of Heroes" thing, now I think about it. I wonder why?

      I am delighted, too, that Season 2 is more character-focused.

      I would absolutely love to see Kagami be like a matchmaker! I can see her and Adrien becoming good friends, but not in a relationship.

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    • TheNorthernLightss wrote:

      I would absolutely love to see Kagami be like a matchmaker! I can see her and Adrien becoming good friends, but not in a relationship.

      I'd like to see her play matchmaker despite an attraction to Ladybug/Marinette, whom she seems more interested in than Adrien somehow. I want to see her try and give them a push in that direction, but subtly. At least, I wouldn't mind if that's how it turned out. the little noise of awe she makes when looking at Ladybug is pretty cute.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Watching the episode myself now in English, Kagami had no business charging in and demanding to be let in the Academy while everyone already there had signed up for the tryouts. What she did was unquestionably very rude and disrespectful to the other applicants. She obviously was going to win, because the other students there were not experienced fencers. Kagami was not being fair.

      Like Marinette totally had no business entering at the last second in the gaming tournament to get Max's spot that she knows he spended an entire year training over it just to spend time with Adrien in Gamer, made worse by the fact that she learned about it 2 minutes after getting in the library? Kagami's driver must have had some trouble, since Kagami and her mom have just arrived in Paris, and she knew about D'Argentcourt's school, plus was actually there to fence, unlike Marinette who was there to show off to Adrien and just spend time with him, so technically I would base Kagami's tardiness on her driver. D'Argentcourt's school is kind of for the best fencers anyway, and Kagami is the best and equal to Adrien, so it would make sense that she gets the spot. Cause that's what the reasonning about Marinette in Gamer was, she was the best gamer, so she had the right to the place. Same thing here. 

      I loved seeing Riposte jump around all ninja style to get to the Louvres and the sarcophagus, it reminded me of her earlier as Kagami doing acrobatics while fencing with Adrien. Guess she likes to show off her acrobatic skills in both forms. Her akumatized self has simple powers: sharp blade attached to her arm who can slice through anything and she has great agile skills with some toughness, while also being quite tenacious and actually knows her fighting style with her sword, makes her a simple yet a ruthless, extremely dangerous foe that nearly killed the heroes twice seperatly. Kind of actually being a given that she will be in The Heroes Day, she is extremely dangerous, getting hit by her is pretty much death assured.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Watching the episode myself now in English, Kagami had no business charging in and demanding to be let in the Academy while everyone already there had signed up for the tryouts. What she did was unquestionably very rude and disrespectful to the other applicants. She obviously was going to win, because the other students there were not experienced fencers. Kagami was not being fair.

      It was rude, however, it was fair. If she was the best out of all the applicants, she was the most deserving.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Like Marinette totally had no business entering at the last second in the gaming tournament to get Max's spot that she knows he spended an entire year training over it just to spend time with Adrien in Gamer, made worse by the fact that she learned about it 2 minutes after getting in the library? Kagami's driver must have had some trouble, since Kagami and her mom have just arrived in Paris, and she knew about D'Argentcourt's school, plus was actually there to fence, unlike Marinette who was there to show off to Adrien and just spend time with him, so technically I would base Kagami's tardiness on her driver. D'Argentcourt's school is kind of for the best fencers anyway, and Kagami is the best and equal to Adrien, so it would make sense that she gets the spot. Cause that's what the reasonning about Marinette in Gamer was, she was the best gamer, so she had the right to the place. Same thing here. 

      I loved seeing Riposte jump around all ninja style to get to the Louvres and the sarcophagus, it reminded me of her earlier as Kagami doing acrobatics while fencing with Adrien. Guess she likes to show off her acrobatic skills in both forms. Her akumatized self has simple powers: sharp blade attached to her arm who can slice through anything and she has great agile skills with some toughness, while also being quite tenacious and actually knows her fighting style with her sword, makes her a simple yet a ruthless, extremely dangerous foe that nearly killed the heroes twice seperatly. Kind of actually being a given that she will be in The Heroes Day, she is extremely dangerous, getting hit by her is pretty much death assured.

      Did I say what Marinette did in "The Gamer" was right? No. Did I say Marinette had the right to the spot in the Academy? No. Did the show say she was there to show off to Adrien? No, it did not. She was there to spend time with him, yes, but we have no grounds to suggest she's there to show off, especially because she's aware of her own clumsiness and inexperience. She seems to genuinely like fencing, and I think the more likely inference is she wanted to get to know Adrien better by trying out something she knows Adrien likes. Not everything she does is out of a selfish desire to have Adrien's undivided attention. especially now that she's mellowed out around him. Especially since she encourages him to talk to Kagami. especially since she encourages him to ask her for the rematch. She does not want the spot now that she sees who her competition is. She does not even think about sabotaging Kagami.

      The fact of the matter is, Kagami gave zero indication she'd signed up for the tryouts. She simply showed up and demanded the spot. As someone who just moved to Paris, and as someone nobody in the school had seen before, she did not sign up. She gave no indication she was tardy. No "Sorry I'm late" no "is it to late to enter?"- nothing like that. She just showed up and demanded the spot and a duel with one of D'Argencourt's students. Marinette at least asked to try out for the gaming tournament and knew she was competing against people who were on her level. She didn't just make demands. She also didn't know for certain she'd actually win, unlike Kagami, who had to be able to tell she was stealing the spot from some beginners if she took two seconds to look around. Marinette also was training for a little while to get the spot. Not a whole year, but she still trained for it. We don't know how long Kagami has been training for a spot in D'Argencourt's school. She's fenced her whole life, but the spot in the Academy? No clue how long she trained for it or even knew there was an open spot. She might have learnt that morning. I would imagine if she knew about it for as long as Marinette did, there is no way she would be tardy. Additionally, there is no evidence her driver is not from Paris themselves and would know their way around.

      Marinette was also pretty graceful about losing out on the spot when she saw Kagami simply get into position. She wasn't angry or jealous, just disappointed. She also didn't intend to humiliate Kagami like that, nor did she know it would humiliate her. She had no way of knowing what the match meant to Kagami. She did not act out of jealousy or selfishness. She did not act out of her desire for the spot, or she would have made that clear. She simply gave a guess she had serious doubts about and readily admitted she made a bad call, but it's also repeatedly shown Marinette doesn't understand that she can just say "Abstain", because she question on two occasions about the referee's calls where he says he can't make the call, and Adrien had already explained to her that being the first to hit doesn't mean you get the point. She is still learning. Adrien even explained that at the end of the episode to Kagami.

      I was not speaking just for Marinette as to who Kagami wronged by barging in as she did- I was speaking to Kagami's flagrant disrespect for every single person there vying for the spot. That includes Marinette.

      Yes, Marinette was in the wrong in "The Gamer". But I think Kagami was moreso in the wrong.

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    • Did I say what Marinette did in "The Gamer" was right? No. Did I say Marinette had the right to the spot in the Academy? No. Did the show say she was there to show off to Adrien? No, it did not. She was there to spend time with him, yes, but we have no grounds to suggest she's there to show off, especially because she's aware of her own clumsiness and inexperience. She seems to genuinely like fencing, and I think the more likely inference is she wanted to get to know Adrien better by trying out something she knows Adrien likes. Not everything she does is out of a selfish desire to have Adrien's undivided attention. especially now that she's mellowed out around him. Especially since she encourages him to talk to Kagami. especially since she encourages him to ask her for the rematch. She does not want the spot now that she sees who her competition is. She does not even think about sabotaging Kagami.

      The fact of the matter is, Kagami gave zero indication she'd signed up for the tryouts. She simply showed up and demanded the spot. As someone who just moved to Paris, and as someone nobody in the school had seen before, she did not sign up. She gave no indication she was tardy. No "Sorry I'm late" no "is it to late to enter?"- nothing like that. She just showed up and demanded the spot and a duel with one of D'Argencourt's students. Marinette at least asked to try out for the gaming tournament and knew she was competing against people who were on her level. She didn't just make demands. She also didn't know for certain she'd actually win, unlike Kagami, who had to be able to tell she was stealing the spot from some beginners if she took two seconds to look around. Marinette also was training for a little while to get the spot. Not a whole year, but she still trained for it. We don't know how long Kagami has been training for a spot in D'Argencourt's school. She's fenced her whole life, but the spot in the Academy? No clue how long she trained for it or even knew there was an open spot. She might have learnt that morning. I would imagine if she knew about it for as long as Marinette did, there is no way she would be tardy. Additionally, there is no evidence her driver is not from Paris themselves and would know their way around.

      Marinette was also pretty graceful about losing out on the spot when she saw Kagami simply get into position. She wasn't angry or jealous, just disappointed. She also didn't intend to humiliate Kagami like that, nor did she know it would humiliate her. She had no way of knowing what the match meant to Kagami. She did not act out of jealousy or selfishness. She did not act out of her desire for the spot, or she would have made that clear. She simply gave a guess she had serious doubts about and readily admitted she made a bad call, but it's also repeatedly shown Marinette doesn't understand that she can just say "Abstain", because she question on two occasions about the referee's calls where he says he can't make the call, and Adrien had already explained to her that being the first to hit doesn't mean you get the point. She is still learning. Adrien even explained that at the end of the episode to Kagami.

      I was not speaking just for Marinette as to who Kagami wronged by barging in as she did- I was speaking to Kagami's flagrant disrespect for every single person there vying for the spot. That includes Marinette.

      Yes, Marinette was in the wrong in "The Gamer". But I think Kagami was moreso in the wrong.

      Marinette said she wanted to show off in Adrien in french. She said: je vais lui en mettre plein la vue à Adrien. That basically means she wants to show off and impress him in french. I know, it's my first language, I'm french canadian, not sure if she'll say the same thing in the english dub, they do say other things sometimes instead of following the real language, the heroes transformation phrase is a good exemple. But I do say that Kagami had better reasons to enter than Marinette, she was there to fence, Marinette was there for Adrien and spend time with him, which I say that for the other ones who are there to fence, it's not really respectful either for them, losing a spot because someone's crush is more important than their wanting to do something they like. Max losing in the Gamer was a good exemple, even worse by the fact Marinette knew he trained a whole year for it and he was dreaming of it, but still decided to enter and take his spot at the freaking last second when they said Max and Adrien would represent the school, which was more disrespecful than Kagami arriving late 2 minutes later but having nobody picked up yet for the spot. She completely took Max spot at the last second and judging from her face when she entered, she knew she was going to beat Max, while Kagami arrived a few moments after they started. I'm pretty sure that coming from a family of olympic champions fenciers, Kagami must have heard of all the best fencing schools, and she knew what was she getting into when she said she wanted to enter in D'Argentcourt school, and since it's the most prestigious school of Paris, it takes only the best, so Kagami getting the spots over everyone else would be a given. 

      I'm pretty sure that Kagami was desperate for the spot, as her mother expected her to be up to the challenge, and her not having it meant she disappoints her entire family, after all second chances don't exist to them. So her being frustrated because she will be forever reminded of her failure and also the stain she gave her family's reputation must be hard on her, well maybe something like that, nobody likes to disappoints their parents and entire families, Adrien himself says he just models because it makes his father happy,so her being down about it was understandable, but she had the politeness of not taking it on Adrien, until she gets akumatized that is, must be because since she knows she can't change the referee's decision, her only option is to take back Adrien's rematch and win it. That and the akuma drove her dowright insane. She did apologize and actually is looking forward meeting Marinette, even if she knows she's the one who made the decision, and she becomes friend with Adrien. So she's not being mean and spiteful like Lila and Chloé, who don't apologize and refuse to admit their mistakes. 

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    • MariChatón218 wrote:

      Moreover, in one scene where Riposte is going to attack Adrien, Hawk Moth instantly stops her and cautions her to pursue Ladybug's Miraculous. This demonstrates Gabriel profoundly watches over his child and does not have any malicious intent for him. Nonetheless, it's Hawk Moth is unwillingly harming Adrien (as Cat Noir), himself.

      Did anyone noticed that Hawk Moth didn't stop Riposte when she destroyed the sarcophagus in which Adrien was supposed to be hiding? I think he knows Adrien is Cat Noir and that's how he knew that his son was no longer inside the coffin!

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Marinette said she wanted to show off in Adrien in french. She said: je vais lui en mettre plein la vue à Adrien. That basically means she wants to show off and impress him in french. I know, it's my first language, I'm french canadian, not sure if she'll say the same thing in the english dub, they do say other things sometimes instead of following the real language, the heroes transformation phrase is a good exemple. But I do say that Kagami had better reasons to enter than Marinette, she was there to fence, Marinette was there for Adrien and spend time with him, which I say that for the other ones who are there to fence, it's not really respectful either for them, losing a spot because someone's crush is more important than their wanting to do something they like. Max losing in the Gamer was a good exemple, even worse by the fact Marinette knew he trained a whole year for it and he was dreaming of it, but still decided to enter and take his spot at the freaking last second when they said Max and Adrien would represent the school, which was more disrespecful than Kagami arriving late 2 minutes later but having nobody picked up yet for the spot. She completely took Max spot at the last second and judging from her face when she entered, she knew she was going to beat Max, while Kagami arrived a few moments after they started. I'm pretty sure that coming from a family of olympic champions fenciers, Kagami must have heard of all the best fencing schools, and she knew what was she getting into when she said she wanted to enter in D'Argentcourt school, and since it's the most prestigious school of Paris, it takes only the best, so Kagami getting the spots over everyone else would be a given. 

      I'm pretty sure that Kagami was desperate for the spot, as her mother expected her to be up to the challenge, and her not having it meant she disappoints her entire family, after all second chances don't exist to them. So her being frustrated because she will be forever reminded of her failure and also the stain she gave her family's reputation must be hard on her, well maybe something like that, nobody likes to disappoints their parents and entire families, Adrien himself says he just models because it makes his father happy,so her being down about it was understandable, but she had the politeness of not taking it on Adrien, until she gets akumatized that is, must be because since she knows she can't change the referee's decision, her only option is to take back Adrien's rematch and win it. That and the akuma drove her dowright insane. She did apologize and actually is looking forward meeting Marinette, even if she knows she's the one who made the decision, and she becomes friend with Adrien. So she's not being mean and spiteful like Lila and Chloé, who don't apologize and refuse to admit their mistakes. 

      To my recollection, she says she wants to spend time with Adrien, not show off, in the English dub. But I've only watched each Season 2 episode once so far. I won't re-watch them until they're out of Netflix. Though, she could be saying anything in French and you can tell me she's there to show off because I don't speak French and my younger brother isn't here and he does speak French.

      Kagami's reasons don't matter- she disrespected the other challengers. You're stuck on Marinette. I'm not arguing for her specifically. She doesn't deserve the spot, I already said that. What she did deserve was a fair shot at it, even if the chances were slim, just like everyone else in the group of people that included her.

      Kagami might not know how long people have trained, but for all she knows, she stole the spot from someone who had spent their entire life trying to get into D'Argencourt's Academy. The fact that she doesn't bother to learn who she's taking the spots from but just expects that she'll get it? That's worse to me than Marinette barging in and taking the spot from a boy I'm positive wasn't trying very hard to beat her. Max's score doesn't increase at all from when he beat I think it was Kim who was in second place before Adrien played. He underestimated Adrien because of his already huge lead, and he underestimated Marinette because she's a girl and he assumed she'd never played ("It seems you have a sufficient amount of knowledge" after trying to explain the game to her). I wouldn't say Kagami was worse if she'd at the very least apologised for barging in uninvited or if she wasn't acting entitled and then stormed off when she lost like that. She could not be bothered to wait her turn. She didn't even give anyone a chance.

      What Kagami did would be like if Max was waiting his turn to try out for a spot (he is not Marinette in this analogy, just one of the other students) and Marinette barged in, didn't hear anything about Max spending a year training nor did she care to hear who else was trying out, and declared the spot hers. Then Max saw how good Adrien and Marinette were and realised he couldn't possibly beat them, but then Marinette's game controller became unplugged or stopped working, or the game glitched out for her, and she was unable to beat Kim's score because of it. And even though Adrien said he wanted a rematch because an error outside her control stopped her from properly competing, Mr Damocles said that the scoreboard doesn't lie and Marinette had already left the library in upset anyway so even if he was going to let her retry, she wasn't there to retry.

      I get Kagami's motivations, but without knowing them (like, say, because you don't speak French), she looks like a selfish, entitled brat. And I like her more now I've actually heard her motivations. But I still think, even knowing her motivations, she still acted like a selfish, entitled brat by how she approached the situation. She did not walk up to D'Argencourt and ask to enter, she did not apologise to the class she interrupted, she just staked a claim on it. That is the thing I am talking about. Marinette also apologised to Max for what she did and tried to make amends, but Adrien interrupted and gave up his spot instead.

      I look forward to seeing Kagami and Marinette be friends, I really do. But I still think she did something disrespectful. I like Marinette despite how she's done some pretty dumb things, like humiliating Lila like she did or being irresponsible in "Timebreaker". I like Kagami despite how she started off now that I can actually understand her dialogue.

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    • Terminatrixx wrote:
      MariChatón218 wrote:

      Moreover, in one scene where Riposte is going to attack Adrien, Hawk Moth instantly stops her and cautions her to pursue Ladybug's Miraculous. This demonstrates Gabriel profoundly watches over his child and does not have any malicious intent for him. Nonetheless, it's Hawk Moth is unwillingly harming Adrien (as Cat Noir), himself.

      Did anyone noticed that Hawk Moth didn't stop Riposte when she destroyed the sarcophagus in which Adrien was supposed to be hiding? I think he knows Adrien is Cat Noir and that's how he knew that his son was no longer inside the coffin!

      Well, that or he didn't know where Adrien had been hidden.

      Cat Noir is about as safe as Adrien can get because of that suit, to be perfectly honest. I think he won't take the Black Cat Miraculous until he has the Ladybug one and thus no need to protect Adrien with Cat Noir from his akumas. This is consistent with his behaviour so far, too.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      To my recollection, she says she wants to spend time with Adrien, not show off, in the English dub. But I've only watched each Season 2 episode once so far. I won't re-watch them until they're out of Netflix. Though, she could be saying anything in French and you can tell me she's there to show off because I don't speak French and my younger brother isn't here and he does speak French.

      Is that how they translated in English? In french it's pretty clear she's there to show Adrien what she can do to make him look impressed by her skills, so. I kind of stick to the french dub, since it's technically the official dub, it's a show made in french produced and directed in France, Astruc even confirmed on Twitter that he views the french dub and names of the characters in french the real one, hence why he says Chat Noir is the real name of Cat Noir super hero name, but oh well. They do lose some important information when they don't fully translate the complete thing in other dubs, maybe because it looks more long in their language or too short or whatever. You can also just ask google translate, or reread what I said about Marinette's sentence in french then hear her again in the french dub, confirming I'm not lying, then translate it and you'll get what she said. Basically you'll get that she'll show him, though I just tried it on and it doesn't especially say it in the same way that it's supposed to mean in french. Kind of disappointed right now with google translate. -_- Bummer. Anyway she means that she will make him very impressed by her and spend more time with him. I'm pretty sure that when you'll ask your younger brother, he'll basically tell you that she wanted to show off too, or something very similar, so. But could you please not doubt my translation skills? People ask what they say in french, I translate for them, and I don't lie on that, because I know it's something serious, I watch anime with english subtitles, so I not gonna try to lie to people for something important like the translation of the shows. Trust me on this. 

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    • Tansyflower
      Tansyflower removed this reply because:
      Off-topic.
      23:09, November 5, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Bardocks wrote:
      is season 2 out

      Not fully, but a few episodes have indeed aired. Check the Season 2 page to see what episodes have aired. :)

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    • Clearly, there is translation differences on this one. While I don't understand French, a skill I regret not having, it sounds like people mistaking Kagami for a guy wasn't part of the situation in the French version, and Marinette's motivations for joining fencing are phrased differently. It is interesting whenever comparisons are made. French is definitely the main language to look at (although this wiki pays more attention to the English version), but it's also strange how both languages are particularly important for production, the main script being French but the animation movements based around the English script.

      I get there is some passionate people about how good or bad Marinette is and her involvement in these episodes, and I don't like shooting down conversations like this, but at least we can all acknowledge she isn't entirely perfect and she isn't completey terrible. It gets tiring having to fight over this time and time again. I think the main issue here is that three episodes in a row involve Marinette directly or indirectly causing an akumatized villain, so it's harder to see a character the same with multiple actions like this in a row of plots. I'm thankful "Robostus" mixed things up, and while we know Marinette will have a part in many parts of what causes the titular character's breakdown in "Troublemaker", hopefully there will be more episodes coming up so it feels less like a concentration of Marinette helping in these dilemmas unintentionally. I doubt the crew meant to make Marinette come off this badly for fans less pleased with her; the order of the episodes probably helped in that view, though.

      To put it plainly, Marinette is the protagonist, so she gets more focus to show her flaws and errors, and Adrien is the deuteragonist in a sense, getting less focus to develop his negative sides so it's less often the show presents them and calls him out for them. As a fan made a good point about on Tumblr, it's fair to be more critical to Marinette and easier on Adrien because of show spends more time showcasing Marinette's moral dilemmas. At the same time, it gets frustrating when people push the difference between them to the extremes, acting as if Marinette is a terrible person with little to no redeeming qualities while Adrien is a precious angel that can do little to no wrong. Marinette messes up, but she has a heroic, caring heart. Adrien is very sweet and well-meaning, but his jealousy, lack of self-confidence, and desire to look good in the eyes of his loved ones can result in immoral actions of his own. These are our main characters, and if it's hard to like one or both of them, while I understand there are many other great things about the show making it worthwhile to watch, it seems like it would make it harder to watch. This is what we got, and while there may be twists and turns thrown it, I can't imagine this particular setup will change anytime soon.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Is that how they translated in English? In french it's pretty clear she's there to show Adrien what she can do to make him look impressed by her skills, so. I kind of stick to the french dub, since it's technically the official dub, it's a show made in french produced and directed in France, Astruc even confirmed on Twitter that he views the french dub and names of the characters in french the real one, hence why he says Chat Noir is the real name of Cat Noir super hero name, but oh well. They do lose some important information when they don't fully translate the complete thing in other dubs, maybe because it looks more long in their language or too short or whatever. You can also just ask google translate, or reread what I said about Marinette's sentence in french then hear her again in the french dub, confirming I'm not lying, then translate it and you'll get what she said. Basically you'll get that she'll show him, though I just tried it on and it doesn't especially say it in the same way that it's supposed to mean in french. Kind of disappointed right now with google translate. -_- Bummer. Anyway she means that she will make him very impressed by her and spend more time with him. I'm pretty sure that when you'll ask your younger brother, he'll basically tell you that she wanted to show off too, or something very similar, so. But could you please not doubt my translation skills? People ask what they say in french, I translate for them, and I don't lie on that, because I know it's something serious, I watch anime with english subtitles, so I not gonna try to lie to people for something important like the translation of the shows. Trust me on this. 

      I think so, but her actions don't really show she's jealous of Kagami or anything so it's not like it's a serious change. I honestly can't get angry with Marinette for wanting to spend time with Adrien, especially when she's a graceful loser before Kagami's even started. Even if she just wanted to get in there to impress Adrien, she knows she's not a good fencer. I kinda think the "I just want to spend time with him" thing makes more sense than "I want to impress him" because of how she acts, even when you can't understand what's being said and with how she's acted in the past. it's even what I thought she said when I first saw the episode, if you look up near the top when the episode first aired. So it's possible I'm just misremembering what she said in the English dub, too. I don't plan to re-watch until it's on Netflix or if I need to make a critical point about something a bit more important than Marinette's motivations to fence. If she's not acting jealous or mean, her motivations don't really matter, I don't think. The fact that they made people think Kagami was a boy seems to be more to affect Adrien's reaction when she takes off her helmet than it is to affect Marinette's actions. Which, his reaction might have been because she does loosely resemble Ladybug so there was no point of it. 

      Quick question- that's surely not how "Riposte" is pronounced is it? I thought the "t" was silent, but the only French I know is "fleur de la cour" and a few smatterings of other words.

      Great galloping gorgons, I wasn't accusing you of lying! I wouldn't. I don't accuse someone of lying without proof- if you ever watch me on here, I bring lots of evidence to the table before I raise objections. I'm just pointing out you could have lied if you wanted to, since I've made it clear I don't understand French and if Google translate said otherwise, it could be explained that it's inaccurate. I had no plans to check it because I figured you were probably not lying. After the experiences I have with people on the internet lying just to have the upperhand in a conversation, I am wary of people lying or just using the translation that's more convenient to them (like how "attraction" can mean "romantic" or just "interested"). Sorry if you took it like I was accusing you of lying, it wasn't my intention. I'm not doubting what you said. I apologise for that.

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    • I think so, but her actions don't really show she's jealous of Kagami or anything so it's not like it's a serious change. I honestly can't get angry with Marinette for wanting to spend time with Adrien, especially when she's a graceful loser before Kagami's even started. Even if she just wanted to get in there to impress Adrien, she knows she's not a good fencer. I kinda think the "I just want to spend time with him" thing makes more sense than "I want to impress him" because of how she acts, even when you can't understand what's being said and with how she's acted in the past. it's even what I thought she said when I first saw the episode, if you look up near the top when the episode first aired. So it's possible I'm just misremembering what she said in the English dub, too. I don't plan to re-watch until it's on Netflix or if I need to make a critical point about something a bit more important than Marinette's motivations to fence. If she's not acting jealous or mean, her motivations don't really matter, I don't think. The fact that they made people think Kagami was a boy seems to be more to affect Adrien's reaction when she takes off her helmet than it is to affect Marinette's actions. Which, his reaction might have been because she does loosely resemble Ladybug so there was no point of it. 

      Quick question- that's surely not how "Riposte" is pronounced is it? I thought the "t" was silent, but the only French I know is "fleur de la cour" and a few smatterings of other words.

      Great galloping gorgons, I wasn't accusing you of lying! I wouldn't. I don't accuse someone of lying without proof- if you ever watch me on here, I bring lots of evidence to the table before I raise objections. I'm just pointing out you could have lied if you wanted to, since I've made it clear I don't understand French and if Google translate said otherwise, it could be explained that it's inaccurate. I had no plans to check it because I figured you were probably not lying. After the experiences I have with people on the internet lying just to have the upperhand in a conversation, I am wary of people lying or just using the translation that's more convenient to them (like how "attraction" can mean "romantic" or just "interested"). Sorry if you took it like I was accusing you of lying, it wasn't my intention. I'm not doubting what you said. I apologise for that.

      This is how Riposte is pronounced in french, yes. Plus the english dub made everyone think Kagami was a boy, while in the french dub people calls her with female pronouns and abjectives right from the start with no mistaking her for a boy, so your english dub changed some things in the episode that weren't in the french dub. Also actually nobody signed in for the competition, they just showed up, it was an open doors day, I forgot to mention that, it's Marinette who said it. You get the spot by getting the highess score apparently, so you just show up and fence. So even if Kagami was late, she could still get there because you don't have to sign up somewhere, you just win.

      I'm more than happy to translate my language to you people who don't understand it, and I like my shows enough to not lie about what the characters says just because I don't like them or love them, that's disrespectful toward other fans, something I wouldn't want to happen to me, hence why I say the truth. You can trust me on the french dub, I'm more than happy to translate it for the wiki, I did it when we got the last episodes of season 1 before everyone else in Québec.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      This is how Riposte is pronounced in french, yes. Plus the english dub made everyone think Kagami was a boy, while in the french dub people calls her with female pronouns and abjectives right from the start with no mistaking her for a boy, so your english dub changed some things in the episode that weren't in the french dub. Also actually nobody signed in for the competition, they just showed up, it was an open doors day, I forgot to mention that, it's Marinette who said it. You get the spot by getting the highess score apparently, so you just show up and fence. So even if Kagami was late, she could still get there because you don't have to sign up somewhere, you just win.

      I'm more than happy to translate my language to you people who don't understand it, and I like my shows enough to not lie about what the characters says just because I don't like them or love them, that's disrespectful toward other fans, something I wouldn't want to happen to me, hence why I say the truth. You can trust me on the french dub, I'm more than happy to translate it for the wiki, I did it when we got the last episodes of season 1 before everyone else in Québec.

      The "T" is said? Huh. It just sounds so weird with the "T" in it. But I think "ripose" itself, the word as it would be said without the "T" sound, is also a word.

      Well, thinking she was a boy didn't change much I don't think except Adrien's reaction to her, like I said. And there's no real indication his reaction was an instant crush on her. It was just a weird choice. I blame how that's a common trope in English media, to think someone with their face hidden who is really good at sports is a boy until it's revealed the super skilled person is a girl.

      She did still just show up and declare the spot hers after everyone else had already begun. The signing up I guess doesn't matter since she was still just showing up out of nowhere and deciding the spot belonged to her and made a spectacle. And that works out a little more in the favour of comparing her actions to Marinette's in "The Gamer", which also did not require singing up. I still think what Kagami did was wrong.

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    • Umm.. where can I find the English dub?? everyone seems to have seen it, but I cant find it...

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    • Jeanne68 wrote:
      Umm.. where can I find the English dub?? everyone seems to have seen it, but I cant find it...

      I don't think we're allowed to say where we watched it, unless it was an official source. Which mine most certainly was not.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I don't think we're allowed to say where we watched it, unless it was an official source. Which mine most certainly was not.

      We'not allowed to tell indeed. Sorry about that.

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    • Oh well.. I'll just have to find it myself i guess :/

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    • It's still sad they did some change in the dubs, like in the english one, they think Kagami is a boy, when they all know that she's a girl from the beginning in french, but while fighting Ladybug, Riposte has a cool evil laugh, while in the french dub she doesn't have it, and that's a waste cause her english voice actress made a really creepy cool one like Erin when she did Reflekta's.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      It's still sad they did some change in the dubs, like in the english one, they think Kagami is a boy, when they all know that she's a girl from the beginning in french, but while fighting Ladybug, Riposte has a cool evil laugh, while in the french dub she doesn't have it, and that's a waste cause her english voice actress made a really creepy cool one like Erin when she did Reflekta's.

      Thinking she's a boy is just a dumb American trope- we do like our Samus is a Girl trope over here, apparently. I also think it was meant to justify Adrien's surprise on seeing her appearance, because he doesn't give indication he's attracted to Kagami before or after that. The only reason he would be surprised in French is by how she looks like Ladybug at first glance, since he doesn't have any problems talking to her at any other point in the episode. He doesn't have an edge of shyness to her like he does when around Ladybug. The fact that they chose to do that even though they've already looked at all of Season 2 makes me wonder if Adrien's interest in Kagami we were told is going to happen is going to actually appear much in Season 2 or if it's a Season 3 thing, or if it's way less important than people make it out to be. I mean, people were promised Lila and she's still not appeared even though the season's plot was supposed to involve her. I think a lot of things were blown way out of proportion, especially by people who hate Marinette, people who hate Adrien, and people who hate the love square who either want it to die or want a distraction from it to punish one of them. The actual purposes of the characters might have been exaggerated, especially when you consider the wonky description for "Riposte", which says that she was "boiling with rage" (she wasn't, that's an exaggeration) and "grabbed her sabre" (which she didn't do, nor did she grab her ring like the description says now, but I do believe she was holding her hand to look at the signet ring so, exaggeration). Which I know you're going to hate that line of thinking, but it does seem that we were misled on the importance of Lila who hasn't even been mentioned yet (I'm starting to wonder if the information about her isn't just for an episode) and the descriptions are sometimes wrong on things.

      I can't tell if you're mad about the evil laugh or not... Riposte was already creepy with how she looked, the evil laugh didn't really add much I don't think. I honestly didn't even notice her evil laugh in english because her design is so off-putting. So I don't think it hurt Riposte in any way, not to me.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      It's still sad they did some change in the dubs, like in the english one, they think Kagami is a boy, when they all know that she's a girl from the beginning in french, but while fighting Ladybug, Riposte has a cool evil laugh, while in the french dub she doesn't have it, and that's a waste cause her english voice actress made a really creepy cool one like Erin when she did Reflekta's.

      same! that's why i like to watch it in both, english and french (although my french isn't that good anymore haha) to get an overall better understanding. imo, some things are better in the french and some in the english dub. for example, the part where adrien was asking about chat noir and ladybug answered him with "he was busy flirting with a damsel in distress" in french while doing fancing motions confused me a bit, so here i preferd the the english sub where she said that "cat noir was better in fancing than her" because that movement made sense here. i also don't understand why they included the "mistaking kagami for a boy" part? (and why did they change riposte calling ladybug "my lady"?!) because it was pretty clear she is a girl from the start and now, depending which dub we watched, we have different interpretations in adrien's surprise. (there are some other episodes where the different dubs changed the overall athmosphere imo. like in prime queen for example, ladybug seems so much colder in english than in french (like when chat tried to kiss her she said "not a chance kitty" in english while in french she said "not now, my kitty" which sound a lot nicer?) i really hope we're going to see kagami interrect with adrien again soon, so that we have a better understanding of his suprise. but tbh, i think it's really an more of an attraction towards her skills, because, like Thearomalady mentioned, he doesn't act shy at all, and in the end of the episode she blow that kiss to ladybug (and why would he do that when he really was attracted to kagami?) 

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      I can't tell if you're mad about the evil laugh or not... Riposte was already creepy with how she looked, the evil laugh didn't really add much I don't think. I honestly didn't even notice her evil laugh in english because her design is so off-putting. So I don't think it hurt Riposte in any way, not to me.

      I'm not mad about her evil laugh, I said it was a cool one didn't I? I love cool and creepy evil laugh from scary villains, and she was a scary one, she almost killed Adrien twice, and if he hadn't intervened both as Adrien and Chat Noir, she would have killed Ladybug twice too. I'm so glad she'll return in The Heroes Day.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      I'm not mad about her evil laugh, I said it was a cool one didn't I? I love cool and creepy evil laugh from scary villains, and she was a scary one, she almost killed Adrien twice, and if he hadn't intervened both as Adrien and Chat Noir, she would have killed Ladybug twice too. I'm so glad she'll return in The Heroes Day.

      Well yeah, but you were talking about things you found disappointing. I couldn't tell if you meant that was disappointing but cool or not. I mean, in the same sentence you complained about the change about them thinking Kagami is a boy.

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    • Xoxoxoooo wrote:

      same! that's why i like to watch it in both, english and french (although my french isn't that good anymore haha) to get an overall better understanding. imo, some things are better in the french and some in the english dub. for example, the part where adrien was asking about chat noir and ladybug answered him with "he was busy flirting with a damsel in distress" in french while doing fancing motions confused me a bit, so here i preferd the the english sub where she said that "cat noir was better in fancing than her" because that movement made sense here. i also don't understand why they included the "mistaking kagami for a boy" part? (and why did they change riposte calling ladybug "my lady"?!) because it was pretty clear she is a girl from the start and now, depending which dub we watched, we have different interpretations in adrien's surprise. (there are some other episodes where the different dubs changed the overall athmosphere imo. like in prime queen for example, ladybug seems so much colder in english than in french (like when chat tried to kiss her she said "not a chance kitty" in english while in french she said "not now, my kitty" which sound a lot nicer?) i really hope we're going to see kagami interrect with adrien again soon, so that we have a better understanding of his suprise. but tbh, i think it's really an more of an attraction towards her skills, because, like Thearomalady mentioned, he doesn't act shy at all, and in the end of the episode she blow that kiss to ladybug (and why would he do that when he really was attracted to kagami?) 

      That is really hard to read without any capital letters except one.

      I don't mind watching it in French with subtitles myself, but I prefer the English dub for one reason: Plagg's French voice doesn't appeal to me on any level. So I tend to not listen to the French version if the English is avaliable. But if I do have a question about something, I will pan over to the French version, listen, and try and figure out what's being said in English even if I have to use an online translater or my brother.

      Aside from the fact that it's just something they do in a lot of American media, I can't hazard a guess why they'd change everyone to thinking Kagami is a boy. It doesn't affect the scenes much, and if anything, it brings down Marinette's attitude in the episode since in French, she knows Kagami is a girl and still doesn't act on her jealousy. Maybe the English writers simply thought she can't not be jealous of Adrien getting to know another girl.

      I think in English, about "Prime Queen", they were driving home how irritated she is with Nadja's questioning and Cat Noir's advances and embarrassment about having her kiss with him brought up, but I found her attitude in that episode to be very off-beat and unusually mean, so I won't attempt to explain it too much since there really is no reasons other than that. She was unreasonably bitter and mean in that episode overall. Not a fan of it, to be honest. "Robostus" and "Riposte" are good, though, but goodness, Marinette's personality is on a rollercoaster this season. Her attitude in "Prime Queen" is on beat with "Volpina" and is arguably worse, but she's hardly been nicer than she is in "Riposte". I can't think of a single problem I have with her attitude in that episode, at least off-hand after only seeing it the two times (once in English so I could understand it). She wants to take fencing to be with Adrien (show off, whatever- she wants to be with him adn be noticed by him), but when she knows she's lost, she's the most graceful loser the show has yet given us. She's disappointed, but accepts it quickly. If I didn't find Kagami and Riposte so incredibly creepy-looking I'd like the episode more and it might be further up my list. Kagami I think just creeps me out because of her eyes and her helmet-like hair making her look off to me, but Riposte? Just creepy, and the metallic body does not help at all.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Xoxoxoooo wrote:
      That is really hard to read without any capital letters except one.

      I don't mind watching it in French with subtitles myself, but I prefer the English dub for one reason: Plagg's French voice doesn't appeal to me on any level. So I tend to not listen to the French version if the English is avaliable. But if I do have a question about something, I will pan over to the French version, listen, and try and figure out what's being said in English even if I have to use an online translater or my brother.

      Aside from the fact that it's just something they do in a lot of American media, I can't hazard a guess why they'd change everyone to thinking Kagami is a boy. It doesn't affect the scenes much, and if anything, it brings down Marinette's attitude in the episode since in French, she knows Kagami is a girl and still doesn't act on her jealousy. Maybe the English writers simply thought she can't not be jealous of Adrien getting to know another girl.

      I think in English, about "Prime Queen", they were driving home how irritated she is with Nadja's questioning and Cat Noir's advances and embarrassment about having her kiss with him brought up, but I found her attitude in that episode to be very off-beat and unusually mean, so I won't attempt to explain it too much since there really is no reasons other than that. She was unreasonably bitter and mean in that episode overall. Not a fan of it, to be honest. "Robostus" and "Riposte" are good, though, but goodness, Marinette's personality is on a rollercoaster this season. Her attitude in "Prime Queen" is on beat with "Volpina" and is arguably worse, but she's hardly been nicer than she is in "Riposte". I can't think of a single problem I have with her attitude in that episode, at least off-hand after only seeing it the two times (once in English so I could understand it). She wants to take fencing to be with Adrien (show off, whatever- she wants to be with him adn be noticed by him), but when she knows she's lost, she's the most graceful loser the show has yet given us. She's disappointed, but accepts it quickly. If I didn't find Kagami and Riposte so incredibly creepy-looking I'd like the episode more and it might be further up my list. Kagami I think just creeps me out because of her eyes and her helmet-like hair making her look off to me, but Riposte? Just creepy, and the metallic body does not help at all.

      sorry abou that, i'm just tiny bit too lazy to use capital letters hehe..

      i'm not that fond of plaggs french voice as well (and juleka's tbh), but i still like to watch in both languages,  mostly because i don't want to wait for the english dub. and it bothers me a bit how much they different the dubs are sometimes.  (do they also change that much with the spanish dubs btw?)

      no, i totally get you. although ladybug always been the more professional one, she never really been this cold (still, her words in french are "nicer" in general imo,  it does make a difference whether she strictly says "not a chance" or "not now, my kitty", for example). i think one reason why marinette's character is in such a roller coaster ride is because the writers try really hard to include her everywhere, while not really having an idea what to do with her? like, we have adrien with his sad backstory, his mom is missing and having a villain as his dad, and we're going to get a chloe redemption ark and a 3-part series with her family being akumatized (+finally seing her mother), but whats with marinette? where is her arc?  i like the 2nd season so far, and it is getting better and better, but it really bugs me how the writers treat marinette. she is all over the place this season and i also don't understand why they think they need to directly/indirectly link her to 3 out of the 6 akumas? it's still the beginning of the 2nd season, so i don't want to jump to conclusions yet, but the whole setup seems strange and confusing to me. (but i'm really hoping that we are going to get a marinette arc or at least a real character development)

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    • Xoxoxoooo wrote:

      sorry abou that, i'm just tiny bit too lazy to use capital letters hehe..

      i'm not that fond of plaggs french voice as well (and juleka's tbh), but i still like to watch in both languages,  mostly because i don't want to wait for the english dub. and it bothers me a bit how much they different the dubs are sometimes.  (do they also change that much with the spanish dubs btw?)

      no, i totally get you. although ladybug always been the more professional one, she never really been this cold (still, her words in french are "nicer" in general imo,  it does make a difference whether she strictly says "not a chance" or "not now, my kitty", for example). i think one reason why marinette's character is in such a roller coaster ride is because the writers try really hard to include her everywhere, while not really having an idea what to do with her? like, we have adrien with his sad backstory, his mom is missing and having a villain as his dad, and we're going to get a chloe redemption ark and a 3-part series with her family being akumatized (+finally seing her mother), but whats with marinette? where is her arc?  i like the 2nd season so far, and it is getting better and better, but it really bugs me how the writers treat marinette. she is all over the place this season and i also don't understand why they think they need to directly/indirectly link her to 3 out of the 6 akumas? it's still the beginning of the 2nd season, so i don't want to jump to conclusions yet, but the whole setup seems strange and confusing to me. (but i'm really hoping that we are going to get a marinette arc or at least a real character development)

      How can you be too lazy to use capital letters and still use numbers rather than typing out the word "six" and using punctuation? It's pressing one key. You even use it to use the "+", unless you use the right-hand numberpad. Which is moving your hand more.

      I have absolutely no clue what they do to the Spanish dubs, English is the only language I understand fluently.

      I think "not now, my kitty" might be worse, since it's more affectionate. In English she's making her lack of interest in him crystal clear. In French, she's giving him a little hope.

      I just want Marinette to actually have a purpose in the plot. Ladybug does, but Marinette does not. I almost want Le Paon to be someone in her family. Also, it's not yet confirmed that the Battle of the Queens is Chloe's family. It's probable, but there's still a lot of room for it to be other people. For all we know it could be Bob Roth and two of his musicians who have an issue with Chloe and her father (which wouldn't be hard). Malediktor's lack of a moustache doesn't matter if you factor in how Simon Says is totally bald even though Simon Grimault is not. I mean I agree it's probably at the very least Chloe and her dad, but there's still room for error.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Xoxoxoooo wrote:
      How can you be too lazy to use capital letters and still use numbers rather than typing out the word "six" and using punctuation? It's pressing one key. You even use it to use the "+", unless you use the right-hand numberpad. Which is moving your hand more.

      I have absolutely no clue what they do to the Spanish dubs, English is the only language I understand fluently.

      I think "not now, my kitty" might be worse, since it's more affectionate. In English she's making her lack of interest in him crystal clear. In French, she's giving him a little hope.

      I just want Marinette to actually have a purpose in the plot. Ladybug does, but Marinette does not. I almost want Le Paon to be someone in her family. Also, it's not yet confirmed that the Battle of the Queens is Chloe's family. It's probable, but there's still a lot of room for it to be other people. For all we know it could be Bob Roth and two of his musicians who have an issue with Chloe and her father (which wouldn't be hard). Malediktor's lack of a moustache doesn't matter if you factor in how Simon Says is totally bald even though Simon Grimault is not. I mean I agree it's probably at the very least Chloe and her dad, but there's still room for error.

      i’ve never really used capital letters on the internet, so it’s more like a lifelong lazy habit now haha ..never really thought about tbh, until you pointed it out. 

      really want to know how they handled kagami in the portuguese and spanish dub, but i can’t find them and my spanish isn’t that great as well :/

      but still, even without the battle of the queens, chloe would get a redemption arc, thus (probably) still more than what marinette gets. this wasn’t a problem last season, because it mostly consists of akuma-centric episodes, but the second season is so plot heavy, and yet we get nothing for marinette, the protagonist, while other characters get these over dramatic arcs. my guess is that marinette is going to be the new guardian for the zodiac miraculouses, thus why she is going to be the one who choose their wielders. that would be a logical and non-dramatic way to include marinette into the plot. and i think it is save to assume that marinette and master fu are meeting constantly at this point, so i can see him training her for that. So maybe the writers are just waiting for this point of the plot to come before giving marinette her own arc? but as for now, her being and development is all over the place the last episodes.

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    • Xoxoxoooo wrote:

      i’ve never really used capital letters on the internet, so it’s more like a lifelong lazy habit now haha ..never really thought about tbh, until you pointed it out. 

      really want to know how they handled kagami in the portuguese and spanish dub, but i can’t find them and my spanish isn’t that great as well :/

      but still, even without the battle of the queens, chloe would get a redemption arc, thus (probably) still more than what marinette gets. this wasn’t a problem last season, because it mostly consists of akuma-centric episodes, but the second season is so plot heavy, and yet we get nothing for marinette, the protagonist, while other characters get these over dramatic arcs. my guess is that marinette is going to be the new guardian for the zodiac miraculouses, thus why she is going to be the one who choose their wielders. that would be a logical and non-dramatic way to include marinette into the plot. and i think it is save to assume that marinette and master fu are meeting constantly at this point, so i can see him training her for that. So maybe the writers are just waiting for this point of the plot to come before giving marinette her own arc? but as for now, her being and development is all over the place the last episodes.

      I always write like this, though. Even go back and fix it when I write typos.

      I can ask my friend about the Portulguese dub, she's Portulguese, but I'm not sure if she's watching the new episodes.

      I honestly think the Bee Miraculous is Chloe's gateway to redemption, not the end of it. She'll have to choose between keeping the Bee's powers (which do not allow her to take the spotlight in my mind) and refusing to change. What is right, what is easy. I think she'd have to be forced to change.

      Marinette would still not be tied up into the plot any more than Master Fu currently is. She's tied to the story, but not the plot. The plot right now is about two superheroes trying to defeat a supervillain who abuses his own magic to make others do his bidding to steal the heroes' magic and bringing about untold danger. Adrien is directly and personally tied to the plot because his father is the aforementioned supervillain. Marinette only gets that attachment when her loved ones become victims of Hawk Moth or his akumas. She's kind of in a weird situation.

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    • Xoxoxoooo wrote:




      but still, even without the battle of the queens, chloe would get a redemption arc, thus (probably) still more than what marinette gets. this wasn’t a problem last season, because it mostly consists of akuma-centric episodes, but the second season is so plot heavy, and yet we get nothing for marinette, the protagonist, while other characters get these over dramatic arcs. my guess is that marinette is going to be the new guardian for the zodiac miraculouses, thus why she is going to be the one who choose their wielders. that would be a logical and non-dramatic way to include marinette into the plot. and i think it is save to assume that marinette and master fu are meeting constantly at this point, so i can see him training her for that. So maybe the writers are just waiting for this point of the plot to come before giving marinette her own arc? but as for now, her being and development is all over the place the last episodes.

      Because Marinette is the protagonist, so she has to have some kind of importance to the plot even if it's not related to her at all. Or link her to her crush on Adrien, seriously sometimes the only reason she is important is because her crush on Adrien drags her out otherwise she wouldn't appear at all as a civilian, just as Ladybug. Examples: in Stormy Weather she gets dragged to the park where Stomy Weather would be later just because Adrien was making a photoshoot there, along with Alya getting her there, in The Bubbler, she wanted to give Adrien his birthday gift, in Animan, she thought she was gonna date Adrien in the park, in Gamer, she entered the gaming tournament only because Adrien was qualified and she wanted to spend time with him, in Volpina, seeing Lila getting close to Adrien led to her stalking them the entire time, in Riposte she wanted to impress Adrien and get in his fencing class just because he was there, Despair Bear she only accepted Chloé's invitation because Adrien was going, otherwise she never would have gone and Alya pointed it out. But she's the protagonist, so she has to have an importance in all of the episodes, no matter what, or at least I'm pretty sure that what on the writers mind. I'm starting to get tired of her being there everytime and the other characters almost fade into the background, even Adrien centred episodes ends with her, not him, which I'm starting to get annoyed by. He can have his moments too, no need for her to be there until the last second.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Xoxoxoooo wrote:

      I always write like this, though. Even go back and fix it when I write typos.

      I can ask my friend about the Portulguese dub, she's Portulguese, but I'm not sure if she's watching the new episodes.

      I honestly think the Bee Miraculous is Chloe's gateway to redemption, not the end of it. She'll have to choose between keeping the Bee's powers (which do not allow her to take the spotlight in my mind) and refusing to change. What is right, what is easy. I think she'd have to be forced to change.

      Marinette would still not be tied up into the plot any more than Master Fu currently is. She's tied to the story, but not the plot. The plot right now is about two superheroes trying to defeat a supervillain who abuses his own magic to make others do his bidding to steal the heroes' magic and bringing about untold danger. Adrien is directly and personally tied to the plot because his father is the aforementioned supervillain. Marinette only gets that attachment when her loved ones become victims of Hawk Moth or his akumas. She's kind of in a weird situation.

      maybe i should also add that i study in a field where i mostly use numbers and hardly really write, thats why i'm even got more lazier to proof-read, correct etc because i'm just really not use to it hehe

      that would be really nice, thank you :)

      yes definitely. i'm not really a fan of chloe getting the bee miraculous tbh. never in this show has she really shown a good side (except maybe in anti-bug in the end, and doudou villain) so i really want to see how they justify her getting one, and how it will change her as a person. Chloe surely is the person who needs to most growing.

      right, i do agree with you, but i also think it would be bit too much when, like you said before, somebody from marinette's family would be la paon. hawk moth being adriend's father is dramatic, but la paon also linked to marinette? imo, that would be an overkill. we still don't know how the plot goes, so maybe the guardian is getting a bigger and more plot involved role, and hopefully so does marinette (that's why i would hope for her to be a guardian later on, because i can see a miraculous guardian being linked into the plot more than a random girl. the backstory of the guardians, hawk moths origins and how he did find the book are only mentioned vaguely till now, so there is enough room to play). the "problem" is, that adrien's backstory outshines marinette's too much, thus making marinette's situation even weirder. and apperantly, the only way the writer's want her involved as marinette, is to directly and/or indirectly link her to akumas. we still have 20 episodes left, so maybe they do have someting planned for her, but looking at the up-coming akumas i don't really have high hopes tbh? (but then again, robustus did positively surprised me with a plot-oriented ending, sooo...)

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Because Marinette is the protagonist, so she has to have some kind of importance to the plot even if it's not related to her at all. Or link her to her crush on Adrien, seriously sometimes the only reason she is important is because her crush on Adrien drags her out otherwise she wouldn't appear at all as a civilian, just as Ladybug. Examples: in Stormy Weather she gets dragged to the park where Stomy Weather would be later just because Adrien was making a photoshoot there, along with Alya getting her there, in The Bubbler, she wanted to give Adrien his birthday gift, in Animan, she thought she was gonna date Adrien in the park, in Gamer, she entered the gaming tournament only because Adrien was qualified and she wanted to spend time with him, in Volpina, seeing Lila getting close to Adrien led to her stalking them the entire time, in Riposte she wanted to impress Adrien and get in his fencing class just because he was there, Despair Bear she only accepted Chloé's invitation because Adrien was going, otherwise she never would have gone and Alya pointed it out. But she's the protagonist, so she has to have an importance in all of the episodes, no matter what, or at least I'm pretty sure that what on the writers mind. I'm starting to get tired of her being there everytime and the other characters almost fade into the background, even Adrien centred episodes ends with her, not him, which I'm starting to get annoyed by. He can have his moments too, no need for her to be there until the last second.

      Only "starting to"? 

      I agree they need to dial back Marinette and maybe give Adrien some focus and have him bump into Marinette for a change if it's that vital she be in every episode. But I also think you tend to judge her too harshly. She originally refused to go to the park with Alya, but Alya wouldn't let the subject go. She doesn't have a proper incentive to go to the party- Chloe even tried to pin the blame for the fire call on Marinette and all of her friends were willing to forgive Chloe after what she did. Alya was a little off-character in that episode, too, wanting to go to the party like that.

      It would be nice if Adrien wasn't her incentive, which is what your actual issue seems to be. Marinette doesn't want to do stuff she wouldn't normally do without Adrien as an incentive. But he is, at least until she finishes mellowing out around him. After "Riposte", her efforts to get close to him will either dwindle or redouble since he called her "just a friend". After "Troublemaker" she might start to avoid him because her crush on him was openly mocked on television and now, as far as she knows, he knows about it. He might find some way to explain it away to himself, but it might be hard, and it won't affect how awkward Marinette will feel around him.

      So you may just get your wish that she stops doing things just to get close to Adrien, but Adrien won't be around as much. I do hope we get more Adrien-focused episodes now that it's revealed his father is Hawk Moth, so we can see more of their home life.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      Xoxoxoooo wrote:

      Because Marinette is the protagonist, so she has to have some kind of importance to the plot even if it's not related to her at all. Or link her to her crush on Adrien, seriously sometimes the only reason she is important is because her crush on Adrien drags her out otherwise she wouldn't appear at all as a civilian, just as Ladybug. Examples: in Stormy Weather she gets dragged to the park where Stomy Weather would be later just because Adrien was making a photoshoot there, along with Alya getting her there, in The Bubbler, she wanted to give Adrien his birthday gift, in Animan, she thought she was gonna date Adrien in the park, in Gamer, she entered the gaming tournament only because Adrien was qualified and she wanted to spend time with him, in Volpina, seeing Lila getting close to Adrien led to her stalking them the entire time, in Riposte she wanted to impress Adrien and get in his fencing class just because he was there, Despair Bear she only accepted Chloé's invitation because Adrien was going, otherwise she never would have gone and Alya pointed it out. But she's the protagonist, so she has to have an importance in all of the episodes, no matter what, or at least I'm pretty sure that what on the writers mind. I'm starting to get tired of her being there everytime and the other characters almost fade into the background, even Adrien centred episodes ends with her, not him, which I'm starting to get annoyed by. He can have his moments too, no need for her to be there until the last second.

      but don't you think that "marinette's crush is the only way to link her into the story" is pretty shallow and such a horrible potration? don't get me wrong, i do partly agree with you here. it's not marinette's fault though, more the fault of the writers here. just as i mentioned before, they don't seem to have an idea what to do with her, or, and thats what i am at least hoping for, are waiting until we get to a certain part of the plot to give her a proper role. i really like marinette as a character, she is such a cinnaon role, but the way they sometimes force her into the plot just bugs me. most of the time it is, like you said, her crush on adrien or she is directly/indirectly  linked to an akuma (it's not always her who takes the iniative though, like in stormy weather it was alya who pushed her to go to the park, and with volpina it was also tikki who keeps telling her that the book is important, but yeah the overall big topic is her crush on adrien). i mean obviously she is the protagonist, and all the episodes are around her, but i think that this can be handled more gracefully? the lack of depth in her role just really bothers me, especially since even chloe is getting her own arc this season.

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    • Xoxoxoooo wrote:

      maybe i should also add that i study in a field where i mostly use numbers and hardly really write, thats why i'm even got more lazier to proof-read, correct etc because i'm just really not use to it hehe

      that would be really nice, thank you :)

      yes definitely. i'm not really a fan of chloe getting the bee miraculous tbh. never in this show has she really shown a good side (except maybe in anti-bug in the end, and doudou villain) so i really want to see how they justify her getting one, and how it will change her as a person. Chloe surely is the person who needs to most growing.

      right, i do agree with you, but i also think it would be bit too much when, like you said before, somebody from marinette's family would be la paon. hawk moth being adriend's father is dramatic, but la paon also linked to marinette? imo, that would be an overkill. we still don't know how the plot goes, so maybe the guardian is getting a bigger and more plot involved role, and hopefully so does marinette (that's why i would hope for her to be a guardian later on, because i can see a miraculous guardian being linked into the plot more than a random girl. the backstory of the guardians, hawk moths origins and how he did find the book are only mentioned vaguely till now, so there is enough room to play). the "problem" is, that adrien's backstory outshines marinette's too much, thus making marinette's situation even weirder. and apperantly, the only way the writer's want her involved as marinette, is to directly and/or indirectly link her to akumas. we still have 20 episodes left, so maybe they do have someting planned for her, but looking at the up-coming akumas i don't really have high hopes tbh? (but then again, robustus did positively surprised me with a plot-oriented ending, sooo...)

      Where I on the other hand avoid numbers to the best of my ability, for they hate me and are my long-standing enemy.

      I don't mind Chloe getting the Bee Miraculus, but I do mind how we're also getting the Fox and Turtle out. I feel like they shouldn't be dumping them on us so quickly.

      Well, it was just a proposal, an example. I think it would be nicest if Audrey was Le Paon, but most people are stuck on Nathalie and Mrs Agreste. I'd just like Marinette to be more involved on a personal level, like she would have been if she did know Hawk Moth was Gabriel, because then she'd have anxiety over Adrien's safety, but she can't confront him because she doesn't want to upset Adrien and Cat Noir doesn't want to believe it. It'd also help if she knew who Cat Noir is.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Xoxoxoooo wrote:
      Where I on the other hand avoid numbers to the best of my ability, for they hate me and are my long-standing enemy.

      I don't mind Chloe getting the Bee Miraculus, but I do mind how we're also getting the Fox and Turtle out. I feel like they shouldn't be dumping them on us so quickly.

      Well, it was just a proposal, an example. I think it would be nicest if Audrey was Le Paon, but most people are stuck on Nathalie and Mrs Agreste. I'd just like Marinette to be more involved on a personal level, like she would have been if she did know Hawk Moth was Gabriel, because then she'd have anxiety over Adrien's safety, but she can't confront him because she doesn't want to upset Adrien and Cat Noir doesn't want to believe it. It'd also help if she knew who Cat Noir is.

      the turtle miraculous still surprises me the most, because nothing really suggested it before (with alya and especially chloe we at least have the colour schemes going on). We still don't know how capable la paon is going to be, so maybe they do need that extra help. i'm just worried about the change in dynamics because i adore ladybug and chat noir's chemistry, and also because alya and chloe are such ladybug fangirls. but apparently they only show up for really difficult fights so i'm really curious about that.  however, i'm actually more worried about the zodiac miraculouses. because how are they going to reason so many heroes in paris alone? and whats so special about a miraculous, when they throw them around like candies?

      yeah i know, i just wanted to use that as an example as well :). but the overall statement is still that la paon being directly linked to marinette would be too much for the story. i actually hope for for a new person, somebody who is not linked to adrien at all, to be la paon.  somebody like kagami's mother. la paon has similar eyes to kagami, and that would also explain why la paon just shows up now, because kagami and her family just arrived in paris. i have a hard time imagining nathalie ibeing la paon, since it's been stated that she is his boss and i can't think of a scenario where nathalie would just lash out and turn the tables? marinette knowing howk moths real identity would also be a nice idea. but tbh, at this point i would take everything that makes her involved to the plot haha. marinette as a character has so much potential, but sadly, they don't really use it. and it's such a bummer that the episodes aren't chronologically ordered, because that limits marinette's development and involvment a bit.

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    • Xoxoxoooo wrote:

      but don't you think that "marinette's crush is the only way to link her into the story" is pretty shallow and such a horrible potration? don't get me wrong, i do partly agree with you here. it's not marinette's fault though, more the fault of the writers here. just as i mentioned before, they don't seem to have an idea what to do with her, or, and thats what i am at least hoping for, are waiting until we get to a certain part of the plot to give her a proper role. i really like marinette as a character, she is such a cinnaon role, but the way they sometimes force her into the plot just bugs me. most of the time it is, like you said, her crush on adrien or she is directly/indirectly  linked to an akuma (it's not always her who takes the iniative though, like in stormy weather it was alya who pushed her to go to the park, and with volpina it was also tikki who keeps telling her that the book is important, but yeah the overall big topic is her crush on adrien). i mean obviously she is the protagonist, and all the episodes are around her, but i think that this can be handled more gracefully? the lack of depth in her role just really bothers me, especially since even chloe is getting her own arc this season.

      Hey, I just wrote my opinion, I said sometimes, and directly or indirectly it's still the truth that it links her to the plot, and nobody can't deny it. Not my fault, I'm not a writer of the show, thought I wish I was, cause I could probably do something about Marinette's crush that would seems less creepy or a bit too much sometimes and that it would drag her to the plot. But still, in Stormy Weather, she said she couldn't say no to babysitt Manon, and you can see she has the same problem with Alya, who actually kind of gave her a sweet deal too good to pass, even if she did show some reluctance, it doesn't change the fact that she still went with it against her better judgement since as soon as she turned her back Manon and Alya were imprisoned in ice, and in Volpina, Marinette and Tikki wouldn't have known about the book if Marinette's jealousy wouldn't have gotten the better of her by following them, Tikki noticed the book at the library, and wouldn't have if Marinette would just have let Adrien and Lila alone in the first place. But Lila was making moves on her crush, so she had to go (not at all). I would like that the writers actually does something nice with her, but giving her the task to give the other miraculouses to her friends seems like the worst option right now. Of course Alya would gets one, and maybe Nino since he's Alya's boyfriend and Adrien's best friend, and Chloé would maybe get it because she made a mistake, or Adrien gave it to her, I would like the last option personally, would balance things up plus Adrien trust Chloé as seen in Despair Bear, I don't see Marinette trying to give a miraculous to Adrien, she sees Chat Noir getting himself almost killed a lot, so she most likely wouldn't want anything happening to her precious Adrien, and most likely would give the turtle miraculous to Nino so that he could watch over him when she wouldn't be able to. I still don't think Marinette is ready to decide who should get powers, since it is show that she doesn't have best ideas sometimes, all the times she stole people stuff when it wasn't the best option and lying about it, Alya's wasn't the brightess, even when it doesn't have anything to do with protecting her secret identity, like the photographer's card, then Chloé's phone when she's busted, or Adrien's phone that she just cannot seem to be able to just leave it alone until she gets the message off, which considering Adrien's personnality, seems a bit overboard, he is used to fangirls. Even if she does seems to learn by the end of the episode (sometimes not after seeing other episodes), I still don't think she's ready for that yet. Unless the writers prepares her some more serious and permanent character development? She wasn't exactly bad in Riposte, but she could also have been more smooth, or just not appear. Adrien is the most important character after her, and it's season 2, might have some changes in the episodes if they want us to be more impressed. So far we got Hawk Moth's identity, Chloé's redemption underway, Marinette's age revealed, Kagami's arrival and why the Ladybug and Cat Miraculous are dangerous when together, as one wish is exchanged for something of equal mesure. Seems like a lot, but could be also great if we don't see Marinette in an episode at all, just Ladybug. I'm still waiting for that, or her getting more involved into the plots. Heck in Origins, she seemed so random, she just was there at the right moment and voila, Ladybug. Adrien is Hawk Moth's son, even if nobody knew, not even Master Fu, but we can know link him more closely. And Marinette's crush on him was only at the end of the origins, so she wasn't even linked to the plots at all. I'm starting to think they added her crush just so she could have some more significant importance to the plot outside the excuse of "she's the main protagonist so that's why she's there". I mean, the class, it's because Adrien is their classmate, and so their parents are also linked through their children, or some others are linked because of the school, or just because they met these people. Right now the shows seems more connected to Adrien than to Marinette, she's linked there for pratically almost the same reason, and when they show more of her interactions with other people, she's still linked to Adrien because she's his classmate. Uuummm, am I clear or am I confusing people, I'm starting to get dizzy with my theory, but I actually find that it makes some really good sense. There's not a single person that wasn't akumatized that isn't connected to Adrien's net of people close to him: Marinette's family or Nadja and Manon who are linked to her cause she babysitts the latter, still connects because she is a classmate fo Adrien, Simon was humiliated by Adrien's father, Aurore, Lila, Kagami, Jean Duparc and Theo go to Adrien's school, Agent Roger, Otis, Fred and Chloé's butler are linked to their kids/charge who are in Adrien's class, Markov was created by Max who is a classmate of Adrien, Jagged Stone is Adrien's favorite star and lives in Chloé's hotel, and Chloé is a childhood friend of Adrien. The lone exception is Xavier Ramier, who isn't linked to Adrien at all, just random or taken from Ladybug PV, I don't blame them it was great. But everyone else seems connected to Adrien through his school, classmates or family. Marinette just seems like another link when putted that way. Again it's just my opinion, but I think I might be on to something there. I still look forward that they will finally be able to do better with Marinette, because she seems to be a little all over the place in season 2, more in a way that I can no longer say what she will do now, I hope her character will be better handled by the writers in the future, and by that I also mean not always winning as Marinette, cause she seems to get everything her way even as Ladybug, well it's normal in her super hero identity, but as a civilian, it's almost too good that it kinds of get old. 

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    • Xoxoxoooo wrote:

      the turtle miraculous still surprises me the most, because nothing really suggested it before (with alya and especially chloe we at least have the colour schemes going on). We still don't know how capable la paon is going to be, so maybe they do need that extra help. i'm just worried about the change in dynamics because i adore ladybug and chat noir's chemistry, and also because alya and chloe are such ladybug fangirls. but apparently they only show up for really difficult fights so i'm really curious about that.  however, i'm actually more worried about the zodiac miraculouses. because how are they going to reason so many heroes in paris alone? and whats so special about a miraculous, when they throw them around like candies?

      yeah i know, i just wanted to use that as an example as well :). but the overall statement is still that la paon being directly linked to marinette would be too much for the story. i actually hope for for a new person, somebody who is not linked to adrien at all, to be la paon.  somebody like kagami's mother. la paon has similar eyes to kagami, and that would also explain why la paon just shows up now, because kagami and her family just arrived in paris. i have a hard time imagining nathalie ibeing la paon, since it's been stated that she is his boss and i can't think of a scenario where nathalie would just lash out and turn the tables? marinette knowing howk moths real identity would also be a nice idea. but tbh, at this point i would take everything that makes her involved to the plot haha. marinette as a character has so much potential, but sadly, they don't really use it. and it's such a bummer that the episodes aren't chronologically ordered, because that limits marinette's development and involvment a bit.

      Everyone kind of thought it, though. About the Turtle. well, most people. I was kind of like "Noooo... please no?" but out of the three, I wanted Nino the most, because he doesn't get enough screentime for being Adrien's BFF.

      Yes I think the Miraculouses will be handed out like candy. Ugh.

      I think Le Paon (Le because she is designed after a male peacock, or so I'm told) wold be nice if she were Chloe's mother. She does have to be the link between Adrien and Chloe, since Chloe is unfamiliar with Gabriel, so she would have the ability to blackmail him with Adrien and Mrs Agreste's lives.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Xoxoxoooo wrote:
      Everyone kind of thought it, though. About the Turtle. well, most people. I was kind of like "Noooo... please no?" but out of the three, I wanted Nino the most, because he doesn't get enough screentime for being Adrien's BFF.

      Yes I think the Miraculouses will be handed out like candy. Ugh.

      I think Le Paon (Le because she is designed after a male peacock, or so I'm told) wold be nice if she were Chloe's mother. She does have to be the link between Adrien and Chloe, since Chloe is unfamiliar with Gabriel, so she would have the ability to blackmail him with Adrien and Mrs Agreste's lives.

      but it was more fanon than canon though, just like how many people in the fandom wish for nathaniel to get the peacock miraculous. i like nino, he also seems level-headed enough to be a hero and doesn’t idolise ladybug and chat noir as much as the other two,  but it still surprised me a bit. Especially since the turtle is the guardian’s kwami. 
      aah right right, le paon! paon is a masculine noun, but it’s just so weird for me to say le instead of la when she is a girl? i would like that idea too! and since she was away for so long, she will probably bring an interesting backstory with her. i really want to know what her powers are going to be, and whether she is going to fight the others face to face or just like hawk moth. it drives me crazy that we have all these vague spoilers but no real informations about them haha

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Hey, I just wrote my opinion, I said sometimes, and directly or indirectly it's still the truth that it links her to the plot, and nobody can't deny it. Not my fault, I'm not a writer of the show, thought I wish I was, cause I could probably do something about Marinette's crush that would seems less creepy or a bit too much sometimes and that it would drag her to the plot.

      But still, in Stormy Weather, she said she couldn't say no to babysitt Manon, and you can see she has the same problem with Alya, who actually kind of gave her a sweet deal too good to pass, even if she did show some reluctance, it doesn't change the fact that she still went with it against her better judgement since as soon as she turned her back Manon and Alya were imprisoned in ice, and in Volpina, Marinette and Tikki wouldn't have known about the book if Marinette's jealousy wouldn't have gotten the better of her by following them, Tikki noticed the book at the library, and wouldn't have if Marinette would just have let Adrien and Lila alone in the first place. But Lila was making moves on her crush, so she had to go (not at all).

      I would like that the writers actually does something nice with her, but giving her the task to give the other miraculouses to her friends seems like the worst option right now. Of course Alya would gets one, and maybe Nino since he's Alya's boyfriend and Adrien's best friend, and Chloé would maybe get it because she made a mistake, or Adrien gave it to her, I would like the last option personally, would balance things up plus Adrien trust Chloé as seen in Despair Bear, I don't see Marinette trying to give a miraculous to Adrien, she sees Chat Noir getting himself almost killed a lot, so she most likely wouldn't want anything happening to her precious Adrien, and most likely would give the turtle miraculous to Nino so that he could watch over him when she wouldn't be able to. I still don't think Marinette is ready to decide who should get powers, since it is show that she doesn't have best ideas sometimes, all the times she stole people stuff when it wasn't the best option and lying about it, Alya's wasn't the brightess, even when it doesn't have anything to do with protecting her secret identity, like the photographer's card, then Chloé's phone when she's busted, or Adrien's phone that she just cannot seem to be able to just leave it alone until she gets the message off, which considering Adrien's personnality, seems a bit overboard, he is used to fangirls. Even if she does seems to learn by the end of the episode (sometimes not after seeing other episodes), I still don't think she's ready for that yet. Unless the writers prepares her some more serious and permanent character development? She wasn't exactly bad in Riposte, but she could also have been more smooth, or just not appear.

      Adrien is the most important character after her, and it's season 2, might have some changes in the episodes if they want us to be more impressed. So far we got Hawk Moth's identity, Chloé's redemption underway, Marinette's age revealed, Kagami's arrival and why the Ladybug and Cat Miraculous are dangerous when together, as one wish is exchanged for something of equal mesure. Seems like a lot, but could be also great if we don't see Marinette in an episode at all, just Ladybug. I'm still waiting for that, or her getting more involved into the plots. Heck in Origins, she seemed so random, she just was there at the right moment and voila, Ladybug. Adrien is Hawk Moth's son, even if nobody knew, not even Master Fu, but we can know link him more closely. And Marinette's crush on him was only at the end of the origins, so she wasn't even linked to the plots at all. I'm starting to think they added her crush just so she could have some more significant importance to the plot outside the excuse of "she's the main protagonist so that's why she's there". I mean, the class, it's because Adrien is their classmate, and so their parents are also linked through their children, or some others are linked because of the school, or just because they met these people. Right now the shows seems more connected to Adrien than to Marinette, she's linked there for pratically almost the same reason, and when they show more of her interactions with other people, she's still linked to Adrien because she's his classmate.

      Uuummm, am I clear or am I confusing people, I'm starting to get dizzy with my theory, but I actually find that it makes some really good sense. There's not a single person that wasn't akumatized that isn't connected to Adrien's net of people close to him: Marinette's family or Nadja and Manon who are linked to her cause she babysitts the latter, still connects because she is a classmate fo Adrien, Simon was humiliated by Adrien's father, Aurore, Lila, Kagami, Jean Duparc and Theo go to Adrien's school, Agent Roger, Otis, Fred and Chloé's butler are linked to their kids/charge who are in Adrien's class, Markov was created by Max who is a classmate of Adrien, Jagged Stone is Adrien's favorite star and lives in Chloé's hotel, and Chloé is a childhood friend of Adrien. The lone exception is Xavier Ramier, who isn't linked to Adrien at all, just random or taken from Ladybug PV, I don't blame them it was great. But everyone else seems connected to Adrien through his school, classmates or family. Marinette just seems like another link when putted that way. Again it's just my opinion, but I think I might be on to something there. I still look forward that they will finally be able to do better with Marinette, because she seems to be a little all over the place in season 2, more in a way that I can no longer say what she will do now, I hope her character will be better handled by the writers in the future, and by that I also mean not always winning as Marinette, cause she seems to get everything her way even as Ladybug, well it's normal in her super hero identity, but as a civilian, it's almost too good that it kinds of get old. 

      It's hard to enjoy your opinions when it's easy to think you're biased against Marinette. You have heavily implied you really dislike her and that Marinette cannot win with you unless she stops showing up. I mean... she's so much better in "Riposte" than she was in more recent episodes before it, and you still think there were problems. She could have been smoother- how? Compare her actions between "Volpina" and "Riposte". Should she have said Kagami won, would that make her "smoother"? It's hard to say if she just picked Adrien because she knows his name or not, especially since she's so unsure of who won. She even knows saying "Adrien" was a bad call before it creates an akuma out of Kagami. Which is a massive improvement where she wouldn't accept she did wrong until it made a problem in Season 1 with Chloe and Lila. I honestly liked the fact that she's making an effort to get to know Adrien and his interests rather than just obsessing over him from afar. I get that's your opinion, but like I said- it's hard to take your opinion as not born out of your (apparent) deep dislike of Marinette.

      Oh also- Marinette isn't the one slated to be giving out the Turtle, Fox, and Bee, actually. So no worries about that. It's Master Fu :

      Deux nouveaux élèves intègrent le collège et vont faire tourner les têtes de Marinette et d’Adrien: Kagami et Luka. Maître Fu, guérisseur des kwamis et gardien des Miraculous, va faire appel à de nouveaux personnages (Queen B, Rena Rouge et Carapace) pour endosser ponctuellement d’autres costumes de super-héros «lors de missions particulièrement difficiles».

      I mean I don't know French, but even I can see it says "Master Fu", something about being the guardian of the kwamis and the Miraculous, and then says I guess "new persons" which I assume can also mean "new characters" because it's followed by naming off the three heroes. I mean, even I can tell that without pressing the translate button, I mean. I did check with the translator tool after and I guessed correctly so there you have it. But you speak French so I don't need to Englishsplain it to you but still. I'm just pointing out I can kinda get the gist of it. If it was spoken aloud I couldn't understand it, though.

      While Marinette is supposed to hand out Miraculouses, she might only do two- the one that gets returned to her but she I would guess gives back to who it started with, and the Turtle, following Master Fu's direction of who to give it to. She might not even realise he wants it to go to Nino until she follows his directions. All we know is she "finds herself giving out Miraculouses" and a female character tries to give Marinette hers back. That doesn't mean Marinette gave it to her, it just means she's trying to get it back to whoever gave it to her, I think. Like if you borrowed my portable phone charger and because I wasn't around, gave it back to my brother to give to me. That's one way to look at it.

      But I do agree with your assessment that Marinette isn't linked in any way to the plot. And that it's frustrating. To the story, yes, but as Marinette, no. Ladybug is. So I want there to be something that brings Marinette, not Ladybug, into the plot. Like I said, her knowing who Hawk Moth is but unwilling to tell Adrien and unable to tell Cat Noir because of his unwillingness to believe it would be a nice place to start. Le Paon being someone more directly related to her, maybe not family, but someone she cares a lot about or someone who is tied to her on a personal level but isn't really tied to Adrien. This is hilariously unlikely as no such candidate exists right now. But I would like for her to actually be engaged in the plot and not pulled along by it. I think she's very underwritten because she's the protagonist. So they either don't feel they have to write her out, or they're afraid to. To me, they need to start writing her better and give her motivations beyond Adrien. Fingers crossed that the fact that she can be a normal human around him is a sign pointing to that.

      I think she suffers from the same issue as Twilight Sparkle from MLP:FiM (where she has to be in every episode, which was true for the first two seasons), but hopefully she'll get played down a little and then be allowed to grow as a character and even just not show up except as Ladybug. But as it's not a slice-of-life show, this might be harder unless the episode heavily focuses on Adrien or one of the other superheroes. I think "Prime Queen" could have worked without the subplot about babysitting Manon, and just had Ladybug suited up the whole time. It seemed pointless, unless it's setting up that Alya knows or learns Marinette is Ladybug.

      I'm still awaiting an episode where either they can't transform or where they can't un-transform because of the akuma of the week, speaking of an entire episode with them suited up.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      Xoxoxoooo wrote:
      Hey, I just wrote my opinion, I said sometimes, and directly or indirectly it's still the truth that it links her to the plot, and nobody can't deny it. Not my fault, I'm not a writer of the show, thought I wish I was, cause I could probably do something about Marinette's crush that would seems less creepy or a bit too much sometimes and that it would drag her to the plot. But still, in Stormy Weather, she said she couldn't say no to babysitt Manon, and you can see she has the same problem with Alya, who actually kind of gave her a sweet deal too good to pass, even if she did show some reluctance, it doesn't change the fact that she still went with it against her better judgement since as soon as she turned her back Manon and Alya were imprisoned in ice, and in Volpina, Marinette and Tikki wouldn't have known about the book if Marinette's jealousy wouldn't have gotten the better of her by following them, Tikki noticed the book at the library, and wouldn't have if Marinette would just have let Adrien and Lila alone in the first place. But Lila was making moves on her crush, so she had to go (not at all). I would like that the writers actually does something nice with her, but giving her the task to give the other miraculouses to her friends seems like the worst option right now. Of course Alya would gets one, and maybe Nino since he's Alya's boyfriend and Adrien's best friend, and Chloé would maybe get it because she made a mistake, or Adrien gave it to her, I would like the last option personally, would balance things up plus Adrien trust Chloé as seen in Despair Bear, I don't see Marinette trying to give a miraculous to Adrien, she sees Chat Noir getting himself almost killed a lot, so she most likely wouldn't want anything happening to her precious Adrien, and most likely would give the turtle miraculous to Nino so that he could watch over him when she wouldn't be able to. I still don't think Marinette is ready to decide who should get powers, since it is show that she doesn't have best ideas sometimes, all the times she stole people stuff when it wasn't the best option and lying about it, Alya's wasn't the brightess, even when it doesn't have anything to do with protecting her secret identity, like the photographer's card, then Chloé's phone when she's busted, or Adrien's phone that she just cannot seem to be able to just leave it alone until she gets the message off, which considering Adrien's personnality, seems a bit overboard, he is used to fangirls. Even if she does seems to learn by the end of the episode (sometimes not after seeing other episodes), I still don't think she's ready for that yet. Unless the writers prepares her some more serious and permanent character development? She wasn't exactly bad in Riposte, but she could also have been more smooth, or just not appear. Adrien is the most important character after her, and it's season 2, might have some changes in the episodes if they want us to be more impressed. So far we got Hawk Moth's identity, Chloé's redemption underway, Marinette's age revealed, Kagami's arrival and why the Ladybug and Cat Miraculous are dangerous when together, as one wish is exchanged for something of equal mesure. Seems like a lot, but could be also great if we don't see Marinette in an episode at all, just Ladybug. I'm still waiting for that, or her getting more involved into the plots. Heck in Origins, she seemed so random, she just was there at the right moment and voila, Ladybug. Adrien is Hawk Moth's son, even if nobody knew, not even Master Fu, but we can know link him more closely. And Marinette's crush on him was only at the end of the origins, so she wasn't even linked to the plots at all. I'm starting to think they added her crush just so she could have some more significant importance to the plot outside the excuse of "she's the main protagonist so that's why she's there". I mean, the class, it's because Adrien is their classmate, and so their parents are also linked through their children, or some others are linked because of the school, or just because they met these people. Right now the shows seems more connected to Adrien than to Marinette, she's linked there for pratically almost the same reason, and when they show more of her interactions with other people, she's still linked to Adrien because she's his classmate. Uuummm, am I clear or am I confusing people, I'm starting to get dizzy with my theory, but I actually find that it makes some really good sense. There's not a single person that wasn't akumatized that isn't connected to Adrien's net of people close to him: Marinette's family or Nadja and Manon who are linked to her cause she babysitts the latter, still connects because she is a classmate fo Adrien, Simon was humiliated by Adrien's father, Aurore, Lila, Kagami, Jean Duparc and Theo go to Adrien's school, Agent Roger, Otis, Fred and Chloé's butler are linked to their kids/charge who are in Adrien's class, Markov was created by Max who is a classmate of Adrien, Jagged Stone is Adrien's favorite star and lives in Chloé's hotel, and Chloé is a childhood friend of Adrien. The lone exception is Xavier Ramier, who isn't linked to Adrien at all, just random or taken from Ladybug PV, I don't blame them it was great. But everyone else seems connected to Adrien through his school, classmates or family. Marinette just seems like another link when putted that way. Again it's just my opinion, but I think I might be on to something there. I still look forward that they will finally be able to do better with Marinette, because she seems to be a little all over the place in season 2, more in a way that I can no longer say what she will do now, I hope her character will be better handled by the writers in the future, and by that I also mean not always winning as Marinette, cause she seems to get everything her way even as Ladybug, well it's normal in her super hero identity, but as a civilian, it's almost too good that it kinds of get old. 

      i now and i respect your opinion. sorry if i sounded mean or something, that wasn’t my intention! i even said that i do agree with you at some of your points.  i also never gave you the fault of the writers. i gave them the fault of including marinette so poorly into the plot, that was my point. 

      let’s not forget that marinette was 13 years old in these episodes, and i don’t know about you, but most the 13 year old girls i know aren’t that reasonable. They are still young and need to make mistakes for them to learn. one reason why i like marinette so much is that her character is so well-rounded and realistic. she is selfish and stubborn, but she always tries her best and apologise when she is wrong (and correct me if i’m wrong, but i think till now she is the only one who ever apologised? chat noir didn’t apologised about the lie in copy cat and he even blamed ladybug for not coming earlier, max didn’t apologise for being a petty looser and was still mad at her until marinette gave him her spot, nino didn’t apologise to mylene in horifikator although he stressed her,…), so let’s not judge her that harshly :).
      i don’t know why it is so wrong of her not to be able to say no, especially when it comes to pleasing people? marinette wanted to stay with manon but alya keeps on pushing her. and wouldn't the situation be worse if she was imprisoned with them? she wouldn’t be able to transform, so it was for the best that she left them, right?  and also with volpina, in the end it was good that she followed them because then tikki wouldn’t have seen the book and they wouldn’t have brought it to the master fu. like i said before, the problem is more the way the writers try to include marinette into the stories. 

      i think that master fu is still the one who is choosing the 3 new wielders, because according to the synopsis, he is at least going to call on nino. and, here i agree with you again (but not because of the same reasons), marinette is not ready to choose the wielders and master fu probably knows that. choosing a wielder isn’t that easy so i think she needs growing first.

      her ideas aren’t the best because she is 13/14. when you are that young you don’t think so far ahead normally. and as for learning from her mistakes, it’s hard to tell since there is no real chronological order, except a couple of episodes that are dated (like guitar villain comes after pixelator, and evilustrator after lady wifi and stormy weather,..) or when you pay reaaaalllyyy close attention (like how in horrifikator you can see how nino is subtly glanzing at alya, so it must be after animan,..). 

      Riposte is a prime example of the writers “forcing” her into the plot. how else can they include marinette into the episode when not like this?  this is that kind of situation i was criticising before. i mean,yes, she is the protagonist, so she is going to appear somehow, but it would be more interesting when they use a different formula. i really can’t wait for luka to arrive because i hope he is going to change something. they did mention that marinette is going to get a development, but the question remains, whether is a plot-wise or just a character development.

      no, her crush is needed for the love-square in general, and the idea of “chasing after the wrong side of a person”, one of the more interesting and charming parts of the series. but the writers do like to use this crush as an easy excuse for the plot :/

      the thing is, they need to keep the universe as simple as possible. because first, more characters means more costs, and second, because it is still a show for a younger audience. so i guess thats also a reason why they all are somehow linked together.

      but yeah, i think most of us can agree that marinette needs a clear and better involvement in the plot.

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    • Xoxoxoooo wrote:

      let’s not forget that marinette was 13 years old in these episodes, and i don’t know about you, but most the 13 year old girls i know aren’t that reasonable. They are still young and need to make mistakes for them to learn. one reason why i like marinette so much is that her character is so well-rounded and realistic. she is selfish and stubborn, but she always tries her best and apologise when she is wrong (and correct me if i’m wrong, but i think till now she is the only one who ever apologised? chat noir didn’t apologised about the lie in copy cat and he even blamed ladybug for not coming earlier, max didn’t apologise for being a petty looser and was still mad at her until marinette gave him her spot, nino didn’t apologise to mylene in horifikator although he stressed her,…), so let’s not judge her that harshly :).

      i don’t know why it is so wrong of her not to be able to say no, especially when it comes to pleasing people? marinette wanted to stay with manon but alya keeps on pushing her. and wouldn't the situation be worse if she was imprisoned with them? she wouldn’t be able to transform, so it was for the best that she left them, right?  and also with volpina, in the end it was good that she followed them because then tikki wouldn’t have seen the book and they wouldn’t have brought it to the master fu. like i said before, the problem is more the way the writers try to include marinette into the stories. 

      i think that master fu is still the one who is choosing the 3 new wielders, because according to the synopsis, he is at least going to call on nino. and, here i agree with you again (but not because of the same reasons), marinette is not ready to choose the wielders and master fu probably knows that. choosing a wielder isn’t that easy so i think she needs growing first.

      her ideas aren’t the best because she is 13/14. when you are that young you don’t think so far ahead normally. and as for learning from her mistakes, it’s hard to tell since there is no real chronological order, except a couple of episodes that are dated (like guitar villain comes after pixelator, and evilustrator after lady wifi and stormy weather,..) or when you pay reaaaalllyyy close attention (like how in horrifikator you can see how nino is subtly glanzing at alya, so it must be after animan,..). 

      Riposte is a prime example of the writers “forcing” her into the plot. how else can they include marinette into the episode when not like this?  this is that kind of situation i was criticising before. i mean,yes, she is the protagonist, so she is going to appear somehow, but it would be more interesting when they use a different formula. i really can’t wait for luka to arrive because i hope he is going to change something. they did mention that marinette is going to get a development, but the question remains, whether is a plot-wise or just a character development.

      no, her crush is needed for the love-square in general, and the idea of “chasing after the wrong side of a person”, one of the more interesting and charming parts of the series. but the writers do like to use this crush as an easy excuse for the plot :/

      the thing is, they need to keep the universe as simple as possible. because first, more characters means more costs, and second, because it is still a show for a younger audience. so i guess thats also a reason why they all are somehow linked together.

      but yeah, i think most of us can agree that marinette needs a clear and better involvement in the plot.

      No, I think she is the onkly one, but she's probably the only one who's apologised because she's the protagonist. Adrien did apologise in "Riposte", though, as did Kagami, presumably for their heated fight.

      Mh, you misunderstood- I'm pretty sure Chi's point is that the plots are set up that way. Marinette could have said "no" and Alya could have decided to hang with her instead, and they could have seen Stormy Weather on the news. The problem of course is that Marinette wouldn't be able to babysit Manon and Alya would leave to get the footage so Marinette couldn't leave Manon with her. Alya isn't obligated to stay there. The initial solution would be if she followed Alya and then pretended they got separated, but she can't take Manon out there safely. So what would actuall need to happen is Stormy Weather would need to attack Marinette's home and force them to leave or, better yet, force Marinette and Alya to be separated somehow between the floors with Alya being with Manon and unable to leave the house because of the thick ice and Marinette able to leave out a window. The fact that it could have worked that way is Chi's entire point. Plus, I think it was Chi who has called Marinette a horrible, irresponsible babysitter. The plot of the show and Tikki's adamant refusal to tell anyone who Ladybug is forces her hand in that way. With Volpina, she didn't need to follow them into the library, she could have already been in the library and then followed them because of the book, not Adrien. That's Chi's point, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.

      Correct, Master Fu is the one supposed to be giving out the last three, or at least picking them.

      Correct. My job has me working with 13/14 year olds. they don't think very well with their heads, they're very heart-oriented people. Marinette thinks she uses her head, but she always follows her heart, while Adrien fancies he follows his heart, but he follows his head (in "Lady Wifi"). Also, multiple episodes have date markers, but the Ladyblog can't be used to mark dates since it's always 21 May on the Ladyblog.

      I suppose I'm the only one who didn't mind Marinette being in "Riposte", because she is trying to get to know Adrien better by taking fencing (be it by showng off or just wanting to spend time with him, she's still trying to get engaged in his interests) and she's doing better around him and we finally got to see her deal with her jealousy in a healthy way and gracefully accept a loss. She didn't need to be in "Prime Queen", though.

      I really hope now that Marinette is behaving more normally around Adrien they'll stop using her crush on him as an excuse for the story as often.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Xoxoxoooo wrote:


      No, I think she is the onkly one, but she's probably the only one who's apologised because she's the protagonist. Adrien did apologise in "Riposte", though, as did Kagami, presumably for their heated fight.

      Mh, you misunderstood- I'm pretty sure Chi's point is that the plots are set up that way. Marinette could have said "no" and Alya could have decided to hang with her instead, and they could have seen Stormy Weather on the news. The problem of course is that Marinette wouldn't be able to babysit Manon and Alya would leave to get the footage so Marinette couldn't leave Manon with her. Alya isn't obligated to stay there. The initial solution would be if she followed Alya and then pretended they got separated, but she can't take Manon out there safely. So what would actuall need to happen is Stormy Weather would need to attack Marinette's home and force them to leave or, better yet, force Marinette and Alya to be separated somehow between the floors with Alya being with Manon and unable to leave the house because of the thick ice and Marinette able to leave out a window. The fact that it could have worked that way is Chi's entire point. Plus, I think it was Chi who has called Marinette a horrible, irresponsible babysitter. The plot of the show and Tikki's adamant refusal to tell anyone who Ladybug is forces her hand in that way. With Volpina, she didn't need to follow them into the library, she could have already been in the library and then followed them because of the book, not Adrien. That's Chi's point, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.

      Correct, Master Fu is the one supposed to be giving out the last three, or at least picking them.

      Correct. My job has me working with 13/14 year olds. they don't think very well with their heads, they're very heart-oriented people. Marinette thinks she uses her head, but she always follows her heart, while Adrien fancies he follows his heart, but he follows his head (in "Lady Wifi"). Also, multiple episodes have date markers, but the Ladyblog can't be used to mark dates since it's always 21 May on the Ladyblog.

      I suppose I'm the only one who didn't mind Marinette being in "Riposte", because she is trying to get to know Adrien better by taking fencing (be it by showng off or just wanting to spend time with him, she's still trying to get engaged in his interests) and she's doing better around him and we finally got to see her deal with her jealousy in a healthy way and gracefully accept a loss. She didn't need to be in "Prime Queen", though.

      I really hope now that Marinette is behaving more normally around Adrien they'll stop using her crush on him as an excuse for the story as often.

      but whether they are the protagonist or not, i still think that people should apologise when they make a mistake. it bothers me a bit how people never fail to criticize all her mistakes but just accept the mistakes of the others blindly? like, calling her out for mistakes is oke, she is designed that way, but the fandom tends to judge her too harshly.

      aah, okey, maybe i shouldn't read and reply people's comment at 4 am, now i see that point haha.  it could be handled more differently, but i think stormy weather was the very first episode, so the crush was also used as an introduction for the later episodes (and i really wouldn't call her a horrible babysitter though haha, manon clearly likes her a lot, and that is the most important thing). i don't really mind her actions when it comes to her crush (like wanting to spend time with him, all the crazy antics,..), but i also do agree that they could include her to the plot without linking it to adrien, but the writers always use the cheapest way to give her a role in these episodes, so it is really more the writers fault imo.

      i also didn't mind marinette in riposte as well, it's more the "forcing her into the plot" that bugs me. she showed development in this episode and she tried to be fair, but how many times this season do the writers want to indirectly link her do another akuma? because aparrently her crush on adrien is the only way to include her into the plot of the episodes, and that can get boring afterr a while. that was more the point and comes back to the me hoping for her to get a better development story-wise. maybe that's why they wanted to include luka this season, to have a bit of a change? i'm really curious whether marinette is going to change after troublemaker, or they are just going to ignore the posters...

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    • Xoxoxoooo wrote:

      but whether they are the protagonist or not, i still think that people should apologise when they make a mistake. it bothers me a bit how people never fail to criticize all her mistakes but just accept the mistakes of the others blindly? like, calling her out for mistakes is oke, she is designed that way, but the fandom tends to judge her too harshly.

      aah, okey, maybe i shouldn't read and reply people's comment at 4 am, now i see that point haha.  it could be handled more differently, but i think stormy weather was the very first episode, so the crush was also used as an introduction for the later episodes (and i really wouldn't call her a horrible babysitter though haha, manon clearly likes her a lot, and that is the most important thing). i don't really mind her actions when it comes to her crush (like wanting to spend time with him, all the crazy antics,..), but i also do agree that they could include her to the plot without linking it to adrien, but the writers always use the cheapest way to give her a role in these episodes, so it is really more the writers fault imo.

      i also didn't mind marinette in riposte as well, it's more the "forcing her into the plot" that bugs me. she showed development in this episode and she tried to be fair, but how many times this season do the writers want to indirectly link her do another akuma? because aparrently her crush on adrien is the only way to include her into the plot of the episodes, and that can get boring afterr a while. that was more the point and comes back to the me hoping for her to get a better development story-wise. maybe that's why they wanted to include luka this season, to have a bit of a change? i'm really curious whether marinette is going to change after troublemaker, or they are just going to ignore the posters...

      Well, I should have been more specific- she's the only one shown. Adrien couldn't in "Copycat" because he was about to time out. But I agree- she gets judged a little to harshly because of her position as the protagonist. She's also written into bad positions.

      Well, I think Chi has a point that Marinette can be irresponsible (at least if you take out that she's skimping her duty because she's Ladybug and that duty is important), but it's not exactly her fault if her Ladybug duties force her hand. Manon might like her but that doesn't mean she's a good babysitter. 

      I honestly think the writers don't know what to do with Marinette so they just make Adrien her prime motive, but since Season 2 is reportedly not going to have filler anymore, things might change.

      But that's the thing- I don't really feel she was forced in at all since it's part of her character development. I don't mind that she was in the episode like you and Chi. I want her to get to know Adrien better than she does, especially now that she can talk to him normally(ish). Kagami put Marinette on the spot before D'Argencourt stepped up and put her on the spot even more, and the episode made it pretty clear she doesn't understand the Abstain rule or how touching with the sabre works. And Marinette doesn't do well under pressure- Adrien is quite right to say she flusters easily. She almost gives away her identity a few times because of it. I have no real problems with "Riposte", because it was really nobody's fault and how she gracefully accepts her loss and that she made a mistake in her judgement and how bad and embarrassed she feels at humiliating Kagami like she did, entirely without meaning to. I don't mind "Riposte" because of the character development and how Marinette's personality is so much more on point. It's my favourite of the currently-out English episodes (including all of Season 1), so I may be biased.

      What I do mind is how she's the forced cause in "Prime Queen" that makes Nadja get akumatised (I frankly don't care much for this episode because of her personality for the same reason I don't care for "Volpina"- I do not think she is very in character in either episode), and how "The Befana" put the blame on her rather than, say, her parents. Like they could have had Marinette not actually know about the party, she goes out with her grandmother and her parents call them back to the bakery. Tom sends Marinette on an "errand" as was the plan in this different scenario and says he wants Gina's help with something so she can't go with Marinette (but she'll see Marinette later). But Gina gets upset with him and doesn't let him explain about the party, and then she goes upstairs and finds out Marinette wasn't eating the sweets but only pretending to and it becomes her akuamtised item, but doesn't factor into her akumatisation because Hawk Moth had already spotted her by then. There was no need to make Marinette/Ladybug the bad guy for both episodes. Granted, she acted realistically in "Befana" but it still makes people hate her that she'll do that.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      No, I think she is the onkly one, but she's probably the only one who's apologised because she's the protagonist. Adrien did apologise in "Riposte", though, as did Kagami, presumably for their heated fight.

      Mh, you misunderstood- I'm pretty sure Chi's point is that the plots are set up that way. Marinette could have said "no" and Alya could have decided to hang with her instead, and they could have seen Stormy Weather on the news. The problem of course is that Marinette wouldn't be able to babysit Manon and Alya would leave to get the footage so Marinette couldn't leave Manon with her. Alya isn't obligated to stay there. The initial solution would be if she followed Alya and then pretended they got separated, but she can't take Manon out there safely. So what would actuall need to happen is Stormy Weather would need to attack Marinette's home and force them to leave or, better yet, force Marinette and Alya to be separated somehow between the floors with Alya being with Manon and unable to leave the house because of the thick ice and Marinette able to leave out a window. The fact that it could have worked that way is Chi's entire point. Plus, I think it was Chi who has called Marinette a horrible, irresponsible babysitter. The plot of the show and Tikki's adamant refusal to tell anyone who Ladybug is forces her hand in that way. With Volpina, she didn't need to follow them into the library, she could have already been in the library and then followed them because of the book, not Adrien. That's Chi's point, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.

      Correct, Master Fu is the one supposed to be giving out the last three, or at least picking them.

      Correct. My job has me working with 13/14 year olds. they don't think very well with their heads, they're very heart-oriented people. Marinette thinks she uses her head, but she always follows her heart, while Adrien fancies he follows his heart, but he follows his head (in "Lady Wifi"). Also, multiple episodes have date markers, but the Ladyblog can't be used to mark dates since it's always 21 May on the Ladyblog.

      I suppose I'm the only one who didn't mind Marinette being in "Riposte", because she is trying to get to know Adrien better by taking fencing (be it by showng off or just wanting to spend time with him, she's still trying to get engaged in his interests) and she's doing better around him and we finally got to see her deal with her jealousy in a healthy way and gracefully accept a loss. She didn't need to be in "Prime Queen", though.

      I really hope now that Marinette is behaving more normally around Adrien they'll stop using her crush on him as an excuse for the story as often.

      Well, for Stormy Weather, you're right, that's how I thought she could have known about Stormy Weather, but in Volpina, I was more thinking that Marinette shouldn't have followed Lila and Adrien just because they were going to the library together, she was jealous and she did the only thing she shouldn't have: follow them to try to foil any kind of romance it may grow out of it. If she hadn't follow, maybe Lila wouldn't have been akumatized, and seriously, can she let Adrien breath? He doesn't need her protection, Despair Bear showed that when Adrien has enough, he quickly shows you don't want to make him displeased, Chloé looked crushed at the thought of him not being her friend anymore. I think Marinette should let Adrien handle himself more, she's not his girlfriend or anything else than a friend for him, but still he can look after himself. He handled himself pretty well during his match against Kagami before she was akumatized, and he also knows karaté. As civilian, Adrien might be the better equiped to look after himself, even if the villains are stronger, he can might do something else than just hide if he is out of option.

      I said Marinette wasn't all that bad in Riposte, but I still think that she just shouldn't have said anything, Adrien wouldn't have been mad if she had chosen Kagami, he already is in D'Argentcourt's school, so him getting someone else of his level on the team would have pleased him I'm sure. That line that Ladybug said: "that girl doesn't deserve you", wasn't necessary at all, like where does that come from? And how did she know that her name was Riposte, I don't think Riposte ever said her name to Ladybug, it's just Hawk Moth who called her Riposte the entire time. And why did she follow Adrien when he went after Kagami? Was that just so that she would notice the akuma and transforms so she could save Adrien? But seriously, I still don't think Marinette was needed in Riposte, D'Argentcourt or any other student could have picked Adrien over Kagami and it could have ended the same way, even Alya didn't show up for the entire episode, which was kind of nice because sometimes I feel she's included to the plot in some way or other just because she's Marinette's best friend, she appears more than Plagg, and he's pretty much a bit more important than her. Still, I think that Marinette's behavior in this episode was better most likely because unlike Chloé and Lila, Kagami isn't interested in Adrien, nor is she mean or clingy or just all around unpleasant. She was more liek neutral, and just end up with being friends with Adrien, so Marinette didn,t need to go overboard with a girl that has no feeling on her crush. 

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Well, for Stormy Weather, you're right, that's how I thought she could have known about Stormy Weather, but in Volpina, I was more thinking that Marinette shouldn't have followed Lila and Adrien just because they were going to the library together, she was jealous and she did the only thing she shouldn't have: follow them to try to foil any kind of romance it may grow out of it. If she hadn't follow, maybe Lila wouldn't have been akumatized, and seriously, can she let Adrien breath? He doesn't need her protection, Despair Bear showed that when Adrien has enough, he quickly shows you don't want to make him displeased, Chloé looked crushed at the thought of him not being her friend anymore. I think Marinette should let Adrien handle himself more, she's not his girlfriend or anything else than a friend for him, but still he can look after himself. He handled himself pretty well during his match against Kagami before she was akumatized, and he also knows karaté. As civilian, Adrien might be the better equiped to look after himself, even if the villains are stronger, he can might do something else than just hide if he is out of option.

      I said Marinette wasn't all that bad in Riposte, but I still think that she just shouldn't have said anything, Adrien wouldn't have been mad if she had chosen Kagami, he already is in D'Argentcourt's school, so him getting someone else of his level on the team would have pleased him I'm sure. That line that Ladybug said: "that girl doesn't deserve you", wasn't necessary at all, like where does that come from? And how did she know that her name was Riposte, I don't think Riposte ever said her name to Ladybug, it's just Hawk Moth who called her Riposte the entire time. And why did she follow Adrien when he went after Kagami? Was that just so that she would notice the akuma and transforms so she could save Adrien? But seriously, I still don't think Marinette was needed in Riposte, D'Argentcourt or any other student could have picked Adrien over Kagami and it could have ended the same way, even Alya didn't show up for the entire episode, which was kind of nice because sometimes I feel she's included to the plot in some way or other just because she's Marinette's best friend, she appears more than Plagg, and he's pretty much a bit more important than her. Still, I think that Marinette's behavior in this episode was better most likely because unlike Chloé and Lila, Kagami isn't interested in Adrien, nor is she mean or clingy or just all around unpleasant. She was more liek neutral, and just end up with being friends with Adrien, so Marinette didn,t need to go overboard with a girl that has no feeling on her crush. 

      I suggested she was already in the library in "Volpina" for the book thing, not about Adrien, right? Didn't I say that? Or did it get eaten by a revision? By the way, there is no accent over the "e" in karate. Cuz the "e" sound goes "eh" in Japanese. That was my language of choice in high school, eheh. My brother took French.

      I was more pointing out how you still find fault in her in an episode where she did pretty well, rather than just giving the girl credit for a much better performance than normal when a strange girl talks to Adrien and the graceful loss and the admitting she did wrong and knowing it long before it caused damage. I'm frankly put out by the "she doesn't deserve you" line as well. It didn't belong there or in the episode. She's not being possessive and jealous in that episode so I can only assume she was meaning "she doesn't deserve you as an opponent". It's such an odd line, even for Marinette normally. She's never possessive of Adrien to his face like that. What did she say in French? Or was it just an overall scripting weirdness? Also they just seem to randomly know akuma names. I think it's happened a few times, where they just kinda know the akuma's name without it being said. Like Copycat's name isn't said by Copycat himself, Cat Noir just guessed what it was. I don't remember if either of them heard Reflekta say her name, but I know she says it. Gamer's name isn't said, but Ladybug knows it. It happens a few times. 

      Marinette wasn't needed, but I liked her inclusion because it added to her character. Like I said- I really want her to get to know Adrien more on a personal level, since she usually doesn't get to talk to him. I found more issue with how she was in "Prime Queen". What was even the point of her conflicting with babysitting Manon and the interview? It just felt like needless drama unless it's setting up Alya learning her secret.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Xoxoxoooo wrote:
      Well, I should have been more specific- she's the only one shown. Adrien couldn't in "Copycat" because he was about to time out. But I agree- she gets judged a little to harshly because of her position as the protagonist. She's also written into bad positions.

      Well, I think Chi has a point that Marinette can be irresponsible (at least if you take out that she's skimping her duty because she's Ladybug and that duty is important), but it's not exactly her fault if her Ladybug duties force her hand. Manon might like her but that doesn't mean she's a good babysitter. 

      I honestly think the writers don't know what to do with Marinette so they just make Adrien her prime motive, but since Season 2 is reportedly not going to have filler anymore, things might change.

      But that's the thing- I don't really feel she was forced in at all since it's part of her character development. I don't mind that she was in the episode like you and Chi. I want her to get to know Adrien better than she does, especially now that she can talk to him normally(ish). Kagami put Marinette on the spot before D'Argencourt stepped up and put her on the spot even more, and the episode made it pretty clear she doesn't understand the Abstain rule or how touching with the sabre works. And Marinette doesn't do well under pressure- Adrien is quite right to say she flusters easily. She almost gives away her identity a few times because of it. I have no real problems with "Riposte", because it was really nobody's fault and how she gracefully accepts her loss and that she made a mistake in her judgement and how bad and embarrassed she feels at humiliating Kagami like she did, entirely without meaning to. I don't mind "Riposte" because of the character development and how Marinette's personality is so much more on point. It's my favourite of the currently-out English episodes (including all of Season 1), so I may be biased.

      What I do mind is how she's the forced cause in "Prime Queen" that makes Nadja get akumatised (I frankly don't care much for this episode because of her personality for the same reason I don't care for "Volpina"- I do not think she is very in character in either episode), and how "The Befana" put the blame on her rather than, say, her parents. Like they could have had Marinette not actually know about the party, she goes out with her grandmother and her parents call them back to the bakery. Tom sends Marinette on an "errand" as was the plan in this different scenario and says he wants Gina's help with something so she can't go with Marinette (but she'll see Marinette later). But Gina gets upset with him and doesn't let him explain about the party, and then she goes upstairs and finds out Marinette wasn't eating the sweets but only pretending to and it becomes her akuamtised item, but doesn't factor into her akumatisation because Hawk Moth had already spotted her by then. There was no need to make Marinette/Ladybug the bad guy for both episodes. Granted, she acted realistically in "Befana" but it still makes people hate her that she'll do that.

      yeah, and she never leaves manon alone. we only saw something like that happening 2 times, in prime quee and stormy weather, so i don't really see a problem here, and manon clearly adores marinette and alya. 

      i think i worded my argument a bit wrongly here. it's more the motive of the involvement here, and also an accumulation of the sama thing happening again and again? i don't mind her being in that episode, she is the protagonist and her interations with adrien are adorable in this episode (especially the beginning where she was so awkward haha), but it more like "oh they want to play out her crush and is indirectly involved with the akuma AGAIN" (just like i'm bored with chat being mind-controlled haha, i like the doudou villain as an episode a lot, but goodness how why do they need to let him get mindcontrolled again?). i like the episode itself, it's one of my favourites this season as well, the characters are interesting and you can see a clear development in marinette as you pointed out, but the repetitivness is someting that bothers me (it's cute and funny the firts times, but now it's just meeeh imo). so my problem is not marinette, but more the writers here for always playing out her "i have a crush on adrien" card all the time. i just want to see her grow and being involved into the plot her crush as the only reason to be there (does it makes sense? writing is so hard, no wonder i took a major where i only need numbers haha). and they still can include these cute love-squere scenes without forcing it too much (like how in la befana we only had this cute ending scene with the bracelets. it wasn't loud, it wasn't forced, but still one of the cutest szenes) i'm looking forward to the next episodes and really hope they have a better idea how to involve marinette, without "causing" an akuma and being invested in adrien the whole episode. some of the upcoming akumas seems promising and i'm curious how they want to link them the main plot or at least to a development. 

      that's something that bothers me as well. marinette already is in a pretty weird position and so many fans are too eager to persecute her (while babying adrien), some even goes as far as calling her as bad as chloe or something.  i also don't get how they can blame marinette for la befana? there are so many other ways to have her akumatized while still having this "grandmother having a hard time accepting grandchild is growing up"-thingy going on. with prime queen is a bit more difficult. they could have focuse more on her boss pressuring nadya (instead of just showing her for 2-3 sec), but than she would still try to force ladybug of admitting something that is not true for better ratings, and we all know how ladybug reacts in these kind of situations. but yeah, they could have definetely write her less cold and less volpina-ish (volpina is the only episode i haven't ever rewatched, just because everybody is so OOC, it's mindboogling). 

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    • Xoxoxoooo wrote:

      yeah, and she never leaves manon alone. we only saw something like that happening 2 times, in prime quee and stormy weather, so i don't really see a problem here, and manon clearly adores marinette and alya. 

      i think i worded my argument a bit wrongly here. it's more the motive of the involvement here, and also an accumulation of the sama thing happening again and again? i don't mind her being in that episode, she is the protagonist and her interations with adrien are adorable in this episode (especially the beginning where she was so awkward haha), but it more like "oh they want to play out her crush and is indirectly involved with the akuma AGAIN" (just like i'm bored with chat being mind-controlled haha, i like the doudou villain as an episode a lot, but goodness how why do they need to let him get mindcontrolled again?). i like the episode itself, it's one of my favourites this season as well, the characters are interesting and you can see a clear development in marinette as you pointed out, but the repetitivness is someting that bothers me (it's cute and funny the firts times, but now it's just meeeh imo). so my problem is not marinette, but more the writers here for always playing out her "i have a crush on adrien" card all the time. i just want to see her grow and being involved into the plot her crush as the only reason to be there (does it makes sense? writing is so hard, no wonder i took a major where i only need numbers haha). and they still can include these cute love-squere scenes without forcing it too much (like how in la befana we only had this cute ending scene with the bracelets. it wasn't loud, it wasn't forced, but still one of the cutest szenes) i'm looking forward to the next episodes and really hope they have a better idea how to involve marinette, without "causing" an akuma and being invested in adrien the whole episode. some of the upcoming akumas seems promising and i'm curious how they want to link them the main plot or at least to a development. 

      that's something that bothers me as well. marinette already is in a pretty weird position and so many fans are too eager to persecute her (while babying adrien), some even goes as far as calling her as bad as chloe or something.  i also don't get how they can blame marinette for la befana? there are so many other ways to have her akumatized while still having this "grandmother having a hard time accepting grandchild is growing up"-thingy going on. with prime queen is a bit more difficult. they could have focuse more on her boss pressuring nadya (instead of just showing her for 2-3 sec), but than she would still try to force ladybug of admitting something that is not true for better ratings, and we all know how ladybug reacts in these kind of situations. but yeah, they could have definetely write her less cold and less volpina-ish (volpina is the only episode i haven't ever rewatched, just because everybody is so OOC, it's mindboogling). 

      But she does leave Manon alone, dumping her on Alya instead, and she doesn't play with Manon like you need to play with kids as young as her, which is to let her win. Manon's level of adoration doesn't matter. Most kids that young adore everyone. It's just not Marinette's fault she's not the world's best babystitter.

      No, that makes sense. I just didn't mind it this time around, I take more issue with her attitude in "Despair Bear" and "Volpina" with Adrien. But I think the one in Riposte doesn't look so pleasant and cute because it's overshadowed by the other times her crush has driven her, yeah?

      Well, some of them seem to hate Adrien as well for lacking any real, prominent, recurring flaws like Marinette has. I don't understand how someone can hate the main characters and still watch the show, but.... It's hard to blame Marinette for "Befana" and "Riposte", but she is still indirectly to blame. Marinette definitely was minding how others would feel when she indirectly caused their akumatisations, unlike she was in "Volpina", "Prime Queen", or "Antibug", where she didn't seem to care if someone's feelings got hurt. And yes, "Volpina" was an off episode for everyone involved.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Xoxoxoooo wrote:
      But she

      does leave Manon alone, dumping her on Alya instead, and she doesn't play with Manon like you need to play with kids as young as her, which is to let her win. Manon's level of adoration doesn't matter. Most kids that young adore everyone. It's just not Marinette's fault she's not the world's best babystitter.

      No, that makes sense. I just didn't mind it this time around, I take more issue with her attitude in "Despair Bear" and "Volpina" with Adrien. But I think the one in Riposte doesn't look so pleasant and cute because it's overshadowed by the other times her crush has driven her, yeah?

      Well, some of them seem to hate Adrien as well for lacking any real, prominent, recurring flaws like Marinette has. I don't understand how someone can hate the main characters and still watch the show, but.... It's hard to blame Marinette for "Befana" and "Riposte", but she is still indirectly to blame. Marinette definitely was minding how others would feel when she indirectly caused their akumatisations, unlike she was in "Volpina", "Prime Queen", or "Antibug", where she didn't seem to care if someone's feelings got hurt. And yes, "Volpina" was an off episode for everyone involved.

      yeah but i mean at least she is with alya, not like alone alone? we've only really seen her babysit 3 times, and manon always seems happy, so i don't really see a huge problem here (but the again, i've never really babysit before, so maybe i just lack of understanding here haha). 

      i didn't really mind her actions in despair bear as much because she wasn't that over the top as in volpina, so at least there was a tiny bit of character development i could sense. she obviously still needs to take care of her jelousy and the way she sees and treats adrien, but you can at least see that she is taking baby steps here. and i find that her level of jelousy/actions in despair bear was a nice "intermediate stage" between volpina and riposte, because i personally would find her development between these two episodes too fast otherwise, so it felt more natural.  yeah exactly :) 

      that's true, except his actions in copy cat, i can't really remember an episode where he was shown flawed. but then again, he wasn't that plot involved yet, so hopefully we're going to see more of him. there are many who criticise adrien as well, but i feel like the fandom still tends to forgive him more easily compared to marinette. probably because he has this dramatic background story going on, especially now where we officially know that hawkmoth is his father.  i don't really understand that as well, because why would i want to watch a show, as cute as it is, when i can't stand the protagonist? But as cold as she was in anti-bug (she was handling chloe here, the girl who bullied her for 4 years, so i guess that's a reason for behaviour?), she still said sorry to her in the end because she saw her errors, and i guess she just never really thought about her being the cause of prime queen?

      troublemaker seems to be the next episode where marinette is indirectly to blame again. i mean i understand that they want to include her to the plot, but there surely are better ways to do so.

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    • Xoxoxoooo wrote:

      yeah but i mean at least she is with alya, not like alone alone? we've only really seen her babysit 3 times, and manon always seems happy, so i don't really see a huge problem here (but i've never really babysit, so maybe i also lack an understanding here haha). 

      i didn't really mind her actions in despair bear as much because she wasn't that over the top as in volpina, so at least there was a tiny bit of character development i could sense. she obviously still needs to take care of her jelousy and the way she sees and treats adrien, but you can at least see that she is taking baby steps here. and i find that her level of jelousy/actions in despair bear was a nice "intermediate stage" between volpina and riposte, because i personally would find her development between these two episodes too fast otherwise, so it felt more natural.  yeah exactly :) 

      that's true, except his actions in copy cat, i can't really remember an episode where he was shown flawed. but then again, he wasn't that plot involved yet, so hopefully we're going to see more of him. there are many who criticise adrien as well, but i feel like the fandom still tends to forgive him more easily compared to marinette. probably because he has this dramatic background story going on, especially now where we officially know that hawkmoth is his father.  i don't really understand that as well, because why would i want to watch a show, as cute as it is, when i can't stand the protagonist? But as cold as she was in anti-bug (she was handling chloe here, the girl who bullied her for 4 years, so i guess that's a reason for behaviour?), she still said sorry to her in the end because she saw her errors, and i guess she just never really thought about her being the cause of prime queen?

      troublemaker seems to be the next episode where marinette is indirectly to blame again. i mean i understand that they want to include her to the plot, but there surely are better ways to do so.

      But it isn't Alya's job to babysit Marinette. Marinette is the one with that responsibility. That's the issue here.

      Yeah, I agree. I raise the point because Chi did earlier, and because Marinette did only go to the party because Adrien was, so it was relevant. But really, I'm surprised Alya wanted to go. Like Rose and Mylene I get, and Juleka will go if Rose goes because they're close friends. But Alya and Marinette seem to dislike Chloe the most in the class.

      I think Adrien actively pretends to not be flawed, myself. Chloe has also potentially bullied Marinette for longer, it's just the 4th year in a row they had class together. Which, when Sabine voiced her surprise, I laughed. For 12 years I had this one boy in at least one of my classes every single year, from first grade to senior year. 

      Ok, Marinette cannot be reasonably blamed for "Troublemaker" and Penny getting akumatised. Marinette's being humiliated on national television by her idol and friend. Her privacy was being invaded and she knows Adrien probably saw it. Jagged had no business in Marinette's room and he wouldn't leave. The TV crew had no business going up the stairs like they did when their business is in the kitchen. They had no business filming the inside of a teenage girl's bedroom without her permission or that of her parents. Marinette has every right to be upset and look to Penny, the one who organised this, for help. Marinette has every right to insist they get out of her room before they keep filming. She's in that episode because Penny used Jagged's friendship with Marinette to bribe him into doing a TV show. Unlike in "Prime Queen" or I guess "Riposte", it actually makes perfect sense she's in the episode. She was the trick to getting Jagged on the show.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      But it isn't Alya's job to babysit Marinette. Marinette is the one with that responsibility. That's the issue here.

      Yeah, I agree. I raise the point because Chi did earlier, and because Marinette did only go to the party because Adrien was, so it was relevant. But really, I'm surprised Alya wanted to go. Like Rose and Mylene I get, and Juleka will go if Rose goes because they're close friends. But Alya and Marinette seem to dislike Chloe the most in the class.

      I think Adrien actively pretends to not be flawed, myself. Chloe has also potentially bullied Marinette for longer, it's just the 4th year in a row they had class together. Which, when Sabine voiced her surprise, I laughed. For 12 years I had this one boy in at least one of my classes every single year, from first grade to senior year. 

      Ok, Marinette cannot be reasonably blamed for "Troublemaker" and Penny getting akumatised. Marinette's being humiliated on national television by her idol and friend. Her privacy was being invaded and she knows Adrien probably saw it. Jagged had no business in Marinette's room and he wouldn't leave. The TV crew had no business going up the stairs like they did when their business is in the kitchen. They had no business filming the inside of a teenage girl's bedroom without her permission or that of her parents. Marinette has every right to be upset and look to Penny, the one who organised this, for help. Marinette has every right to insist they get out of her room before they keep filming. She's in that episode because Penny used Jagged's friendship with Marinette to bribe him into doing a TV show. Unlike in "Prime Queen" or I guess "Riposte", it actually makes perfect sense she's in the episode. She was the trick to getting Jagged on the show.

      You mean it's not Alya's job to babysitt Manon, you said Marinette instead of Manon. Hehe. Alya got a text from Nino saying he was going to the party with Adrien, so most likely since her boyfriend was going, she would go too. Did Troublemaker already aired? Did Penny said they could film everywhere in the hosue, and they just went to Marinette's room? She scheduled for the kitchen, maybe the crew wanted to see more and went without Penny's supervision? Sometimes the show doesn't go according to what the producer wants, like in Simon Says where Gabriel cutted off the interview before letting Simon hypnotise him, which might not have been something Alec expected.

      As of your questions Thearomalady, while I said that Marinette still could have been a bit better in Riposte, I also did say that she was better than in other episodes like Volpina and Prime Queen, so I did praise her and also gave my critic on her. Still was in one of her best mood, but still some things needs to be adjusted, like her "that girl doesn't deserve you" line. And yes, she pratically says the same thing in french. Also I wrote karate like that because that's how we write it in french, my keyboard is in the french canadian language, but I'll write it in english for you if you prefer it that way.

      I would say that people are more harsh on Marinette than on Adrien probably because she had a normal life while he was pratically always at home with probably only his parents, Chloé, Nathalie, the Gorilla and his teachers plus the photoshoot crew to interact with. So he might not have full first on world experiences to fully judge his actions sometimes like in Copycat, since he hardly interacted with other people outside of the people he knew. Marinette had parents who told her right and wrong, went to school where she was being bullied, normal stuff. Adrien was mostly taught how to behave properly without any thoughts of his own to be perfect, while Marinette could be herself. Adrien does have a facade he has to keep all the time as a civilain, so he's going all out as Chat Noir to evacuate the stress and pressure, and of course him being in love for the first time and being best friends with Ladybug since she's the only one who knows of his true self, well the only one she knows, he might be possessive of that, although Théo being jealous of something like that, when we know Ladybug is younger than him and must have never met him in person before, I think he was being unreasonnable there too being jealous of Chat Noir's relationship with her romantic or not, false or not. What I mean is they have different backgrounds, but Marinette pratically went through what any kids went through, while Adrien's past is unusual. How many rich kids models for their parents line, get homeschooled and almost never go out? Not a lot, I'm sure. And since he lost his mom and his dad isn't all around that much, he must not being having a good time either, hence why he ran away in Origins to go to school and gets some friends, he's lonely and suffocating. Marinette has a normal loving family and a good home, Adrien is mostly isolated in a cold environment, thought that might have been before his mom went missing. But still if he wasn't allowed to go to school or got out much when she was still around, maybe she was just as protective as Gabriel, but was more warm and there for him which filled the void. What I mena is that Marinette's background is pratically something almost everyone went through, hence why we realte to her and thinks her thoughts and actions are sometimes out of controls because we could relate to her position, but we all thought "why the heck is she doing that?" while Adrien is basically in a category apart from normal, hence his behavior can be more questionnable, but we get that he hadn't it normal like Marinette, so we might be more lenient with him? Different characters, backgrounds and personalities goes for different treatments and critics from the fans. We sees fandom being more hard on the heroes than on the villains because of the villains motivations or background, while the protagonists sometimes have it normal and they still act in a way that rubs the fandom the wrong way, so it's nothing new here.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      You mean it's not Alya's job to babysitt Manon, you said Marinette instead of Manon. Hehe. Alya got a text from Nino saying he was going to the party with Adrien, so most likely since her boyfriend was going, she would go too. Did Troublemaker already aired? Did Penny said they could film everywhere in the hosue, and they just went to Marinette's room? She scheduled for the kitchen, maybe the crew wanted to see more and went without Penny's supervision? Sometimes the show doesn't go according to what the producer wants, like in Simon Says where Gabriel cutted off the interview before letting Simon hypnotise him, which might not have been something Alec expected.

      As of your questions Thearomalady, while I said that Marinette still could have been a bit better in Riposte, I also did say that she was better than in other episodes like Volpina and Prime Queen, so I did praise her and also gave my critic on her. Still was in one of her best mood, but still some things needs to be adjusted, like her "that girl doesn't deserve you" line. And yes, she pratically says the same thing in french. Also I wrote karate like that because that's how we write it in french, my keyboard is in the french canadian language, but I'll write it in english for you if you prefer it that way.

      I would say that people are more harsh on Marinette than on Adrien probably because she had a normal life while he was pratically always at home with probably only his parents, Chloé, Nathalie, the Gorilla and his teachers plus the photoshoot crew to interact with. So he might not have full first on world experiences to fully judge his actions sometimes like in Copycat, since he hardly interacted with other people outside of the people he knew. Marinette had parents who told her right and wrong, went to school where she was being bullied, normal stuff. Adrien was mostly taught how to behave properly without any thoughts of his own to be perfect, while Marinette could be herself. Adrien does have a facade he has to keep all the time as a civilain, so he's going all out as Chat Noir to evacuate the stress and pressure, and of course him being in love for the first time and being best friends with Ladybug since she's the only one who knows of his true self, well the only one she knows, he might be possessive of that, although Théo being jealous of something like that, when we know Ladybug is younger than him and must have never met him in person before, I think he was being unreasonnable there too being jealous of Chat Noir's relationship with her romantic or not, false or not. What I mean is they have different backgrounds, but Marinette pratically went through what any kids went through, while Adrien's past is unusual. How many rich kids models for their parents line, get homeschooled and almost never go out? Not a lot, I'm sure. And since he lost his mom and his dad isn't all around that much, he must not being having a good time either, hence why he ran away in Origins to go to school and gets some friends, he's lonely and suffocating. Marinette has a normal loving family and a good home, Adrien is mostly isolated in a cold environment, thought that might have been before his mom went missing. But still if he wasn't allowed to go to school or got out much when she was still around, maybe she was just as protective as Gabriel, but was more warm and there for him which filled the void. What I mena is that Marinette's background is pratically something almost everyone went through, hence why we realte to her and thinks her thoughts and actions are sometimes out of controls because we could relate to her position, but we all thought "why the heck is she doing that?" while Adrien is basically in a category apart from normal, hence his behavior can be more questionnable, but we get that he hadn't it normal like Marinette, so we might be more lenient with him? Different characters, backgrounds and personalities goes for different treatments and critics from the fans. We sees fandom being more hard on the heroes than on the villains because of the villains motivations or background, while the protagonists sometimes have it normal and they still act in a way that rubs the fandom the wrong way, so it's nothing new here.

      Ehhh, whichever pigtailed person with an M name it is.

      Some of the English actors read some of the "Troublemaker" script aloud. From what seems to be the opening to the akumatisation. It's on the Transcript page for the episode, if you want to read it. What happened was Jagged needed to use the loo so Penny went to take him up there but they went into Marinette's room by mistake, Jagged refused to leave, Alec said they were going back on air and needed to improvise, so they followed Jagged upstairs and filmed Marinette's room.

      I was meaning you won't just give her the compliment, there has to be a "but" after it, more than I meant anything else. So... where DOES that "She doesn't deserve you" line come from? It's so out-of-place. I was just more pointing the "karate" bit out because doesn't that accent on the E mean the "E" says it's name? Like in Chloe (I can't do the accent becuase I don't have it on my keyboard; I copy/paste it in usually)? Since loads of English-speakers pronounce it that way (kara-tee), I just thought you thought it needed to be there because you thought that's how the word is pronounced in Japanese. Keep writing it that way you think's best.

      Hah, I find it funny how there's no accenty thing under the c in facade. I hope that's not a result of what I said about the accent in karate.

      I would think the kid with no social skills would be ruder than the one who has social skills, even if he doesn't mean to be. Like, he grew up around Chloe, his dad, Nathalie, and the Gorilla. He and his mom are like flowers in a cactus barn.

      Cactus barn? What?

      Whatever, dumb metaphor aside, the only person he would have been able to learn kindness from is his mom. He says his dad changed after his wife vanished, but he also implies Gabriel has always been pretty distant. I guess he just got more cold and distant. But I feel like he should, with only one positive influence, mess up more often, unless he specifically uses them as examples of how not to act. But Adrien is kind of an absolute gem of a guy. He's been working a lot for an unspecified amount of time, too (possibly only since his mother vanished). I guess I just think Adrien shouldn't connect with people as well as he does, lonely or not.

      This makes even less sense if his mom is secretly as evil as people think she is.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Xoxoxoooo wrote:
      But it isn't Alya's job to babysit Marinette. Marinette is the one with that responsibility. That's the issue here.

      Yeah, I agree. I raise the point because Chi did earlier, and because Marinette did only go to the party because Adrien was, so it was relevant. But really, I'm surprised Alya wanted to go. Like Rose and Mylene I get, and Juleka will go if Rose goes because they're close friends. But Alya and Marinette seem to dislike Chloe the most in the class.

      I think Adrien actively pretends to not be flawed, myself. Chloe has also potentially bullied Marinette for longer, it's just the 4th year in a row they had class together. Which, when Sabine voiced her surprise, I laughed. For 12 years I had this one boy in at least one of my classes every single year, from first grade to senior year. 

      Ok, Marinette cannot be reasonably blamed for "Troublemaker" and Penny getting akumatised. Marinette's being humiliated on national television by her idol and friend. Her privacy was being invaded and she knows Adrien probably saw it. Jagged had no business in Marinette's room and he wouldn't leave. The TV crew had no business going up the stairs like they did when their business is in the kitchen. They had no business filming the inside of a teenage girl's bedroom without her permission or that of her parents. Marinette has every right to be upset and look to Penny, the one who organised this, for help. Marinette has every right to insist they get out of her room before they keep filming. She's in that episode because Penny used Jagged's friendship with Marinette to bribe him into doing a TV show. Unlike in "Prime Queen" or I guess "Riposte", it actually makes perfect sense she's in the episode. She was the trick to getting Jagged on the show.

      i just typed paragraphs and paragraphs, and suddenly they are gone :(. so this reply is not as detailed as the original one, but i hope my points are still clear

      true. i still don't understand why they included that part in the beginning tbh? like, whats the purpose of it? do they want to show some alya and manon? or how marinette still juggle with her ladybug and marinette duties?

      i was suprised as well, but then again, alya always been more level-headed than marinette. she is someone who waits for chloe to do something bad first before putting her into her place. it was also her who told marinette not to stoop into chloe's level during the fire-alarm fiasco, so i can see why she still wanted to go. 

      oh absolutely, i can see adrien doing the same as well. he acts so differently depending on the person who he is interecting with, and even as chat noir he still tries to cover up his faults and flaws. that's why i really like his interactions with plagg, because that's when he seems to be "the realest version of him".

      yes and (partly) no? because although the reason for the akumatisation is the overall stress, i can already see people blaming marinette because "she puts her even more under pressure". i do completely agree with you that marinette is not at fault here and from the transcript alone you can see how frustrated she is, and rightlfully so, but marinette is in this weird situation where she in the same scene that causes an akumatisation again. Looking back how some reacted and blamed marinette for riposte, la bafena and prime queen (although it wasn't her fault), i can already see them doing to same with troublemaker as well, and that's what i meant. so it's more like: is she to blame for the akuma?no! but are people still trying to accuse her of doing it? looking at the past reactions, yes! but the episode hasn't aired yet anyways and maybe i'm wrong with my assumptions and the fandom is going to prove me wrong. the episode sounds really interesting though and i'm super curious with the impact of tv crew airing the adrien posters...

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Ehhh, whichever pigtailed person with an M name it is.

      Some of the English actors read some of the "Troublemaker" script aloud. From what seems to be the opening to the akumatisation. It's on the Transcript page for the episode, if you want to read it. What happened was Jagged needed to use the loo so Penny went to take him up there but they went into Marinette's room by mistake, Jagged refused to leave, Alec said they were going back on air and needed to improvise, so they followed Jagged upstairs and filmed Marinette's room.

      I was meaning you won't just give her the compliment, there has to be a "but" after it, more than I meant anything else. So... where DOES that "She doesn't deserve you" line come from? It's so out-of-place. I was just more pointing the "karate" bit out because doesn't that accent on the E mean the "E" says it's name? Like in Chloe (I can't do the accent becuase I don't have it on my keyboard; I copy/paste it in usually)? Since loads of English-speakers pronounce it that way (kara-tee), I just thought you thought it needed to be there because you thought that's how the word is pronounced in Japanese. Keep writing it that way you think's best.

      Hah, I find it funny how there's no accenty thing under the c in facade. I hope that's not a result of what I said about the accent in karate.

      I would think the kid with no social skills would be ruder than the one who has social skills, even if he doesn't mean to be. Like, he grew up around Chloe, his dad, Nathalie, and the Gorilla. He and his mom are like flowers in a cactus barn.

      Cactus barn? What?

      Whatever, dumb metaphor aside, the only person he would have been able to learn kindness from is his mom. He says his dad changed after his wife vanished, but he also implies Gabriel has always been pretty distant. I guess he just got more cold and distant. But I feel like he should, with only one positive influence, mess up more often, unless he specifically uses them as examples of how not to act. But Adrien is kind of an absolute gem of a guy. He's been working a lot for an unspecified amount of time, too (possibly only since his mother vanished). I guess I just think Adrien shouldn't connect with people as well as he does, lonely or not.

      This makes even less sense if his mom is secretly as evil as people think she is.

      Well, you can't say I just give criticism, since people thinks I'm so biased about Marinette, even thought there was a but after the praising I gave her, can at least someone point out that I also praised her too in the same vein and actually focus on... never mind, I just figured where I was going on with that. Haha! Now it looks like people thinks I can only point out Marinette's flaws and not give more thoughts on her more pleasant traits which are more numerous than her less than appealing ones, but the ugly ones are still there no matter how nice she is outside her feelings of jealousy for Adrien and other things. Oh well. 

      That line of Ladybug in Riposte saying "that girl doesn't deserve you", I think you or someone else brought it up in an earlier post to what I wrote this morning or something, and since I won't quote 2 things, I've had my lesson with another user a while ago, I brought it up here. I was just wondering why Ladybug said that, looking actually kind of jealous or possessive or just being annoyed or I don,t have a clue what she meant, but just wondering if it was necessary of her to say that. Kagami doesn't deserve Adrien asking a decisive match because she got akumatized? Because she showed up late to the try-outs (how do you pronounce try outs, like that?)? Kagami doesn't deserve Adrien following her to talk? Doesn't deserve hearing Adrien talk? She lost and was upset, but did gave Adrien a handshake, then walked out without any mean or ill comment, well no comments at all, just said to Adrien it was pointless to do another round, he won, second chances don't exist in her family, then told him good-bye. The most polite she could do at the moment, then quietly sulking in the car after telling her mother her loss. Can't blame her that a super-villain made her into a crazy villain bent on slicing Adrien in pieces for revenge, Kagami was pretty sorry about that after everything was said and she was back to normal, but I wonder why Ladybug just said that out of the blue. Sure she let Adrien return Kagami's sword, but he was actually gonna do that without her telling him, and I'm glad she decided to just accept that Kagami is better than her at fencing, she's pretty good at almost everything else, so she can take second place here for a change, it's not a bad thing. 

      Why would I think that I'd know how karate is pronounced in japanese (although now that you mention it, I would think that's how it would be pronounced in japanese actually, but I won't go check that)? I said many times that I was french, and we're known for our accents on the letters. We don't have the accenty thing on the c of facade in our language either. And since I'm french with the french-canadian keyboard, I use the french names of the characters, since it's actually their canon name and the canon way to pronounce them, since it's a french show and Astruc himself confirmed that he viewed the frnech dub, names and everyhting else canon since it was made in France and everything, hence why I say ChloÉ and CHAT Noir instead of Chloe and Cat Noir. Althought for Jacques, I went with Simon because it's easier maybe for you guys who watch the english dub and can't understand the french one very well.

      Well, if his mom was such a nice lady she must have taught him well, it's just his inexperience with the outside world that counterbalance it, plus the fact that he was told to be the one people expected him to be, but as Chat Noir he is not bound by such regulations other than saving Paris from Hawk Moth's victim. We do see lonely rich kids that are still quite nice mostly because they have good parents or at least one good parent or parental figure to help them. Chloé's butler probably didn't stand much of a chance against her father's spoiling her so rotten and her getting away with everything since he's the mayor, but clearly Adrien doesn't have the perk of his dad almost having the authority on the city, plus he has a reputation and look of the perfect boy to maintain, which Chloé doesn't have. The fact that Chloé got to school and bullied people for 4 years and got no punishment for it didn't help her attitude, while Adrien most likely was told to please everyone, hence why he is friendly and more approchable, plus his loneliness means he was going to be nice to get some friends maybe, as if he's not perfect or charming, his reputation will go in shamble and he will disappoint his father, something he clearly doesn't want to, but he still needs to live a little.

      If his mom is evil then at least she is a good mother to her son, but I doubt she is evil, just extremely protective of her only son about as much as her husband is. But I'll wait until we get an episode showing her behavior to get a solid opinion of her.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Well, you can't say I just give criticism, since people thinks I'm so biased about Marinette, even thought there was a but after the praising I gave her, can at least someone point out that I also praised her too in the same vein and actually focus on... never mind, I just figured where I was going on with that. Haha! Now it looks like people thinks I can only point out Marinette's flaws and not give more thoughts on her more pleasant traits which are more numerous than her less than appealing ones, but the ugly ones are still there no matter how nice she is outside her feelings of jealousy for Adrien and other things. Oh well. 

      That line of Ladybug in Riposte saying "that girl doesn't deserve you", I think you or someone else brought it up in an earlier post to what I wrote this morning or something, and since I won't quote 2 things, I've had my lesson with another user a while ago, I brought it up here. I was just wondering why Ladybug said that, looking actually kind of jealous or possessive or just being annoyed or I don,t have a clue what she meant, but just wondering if it was necessary of her to say that. Kagami doesn't deserve Adrien asking a decisive match because she got akumatized? Because she showed up late to the try-outs (how do you pronounce try outs, like that?)? Kagami doesn't deserve Adrien following her to talk? Doesn't deserve hearing Adrien talk? She lost and was upset, but did gave Adrien a handshake, then walked out without any mean or ill comment, well no comments at all, just said to Adrien it was pointless to do another round, he won, second chances don't exist in her family, then told him good-bye. The most polite she could do at the moment, then quietly sulking in the car after telling her mother her loss. Can't blame her that a super-villain made her into a crazy villain bent on slicing Adrien in pieces for revenge, Kagami was pretty sorry about that after everything was said and she was back to normal, but I wonder why Ladybug just said that out of the blue. Sure she let Adrien return Kagami's sword, but he was actually gonna do that without her telling him, and I'm glad she decided to just accept that Kagami is better than her at fencing, she's pretty good at almost everything else, so she can take second place here for a change, it's not a bad thing. 

      Why would I think that I'd know how karate is pronounced in japanese (although now that you mention it, I would think that's how it would be pronounced in japanese actually, but I won't go check that)? I said many times that I was french, and we're known for our accents on the letters. We don't have the accenty thing on the c of facade in our language either. And since I'm french with the french-canadian keyboard, I use the french names of the characters, since it's actually their canon name and the canon way to pronounce them, since it's a french show and Astruc himself confirmed that he viewed the frnech dub, names and everyhting else canon since it was made in France and everything, hence why I say ChloÉ and CHAT Noir instead of Chloe and Cat Noir. Althought for Jacques, I went with Simon because it's easier maybe for you guys who watch the english dub and can't understand the french one very well.

      Well, if his mom was such a nice lady she must have taught him well, it's just his inexperience with the outside world that counterbalance it, plus the fact that he was told to be the one people expected him to be, but as Chat Noir he is not bound by such regulations other than saving Paris from Hawk Moth's victim. We do see lonely rich kids that are still quite nice mostly because they have good parents or at least one good parent or parental figure to help them. Chloé's butler probably didn't stand much of a chance against her father's spoiling her so rotten and her getting away with everything since he's the mayor, but clearly Adrien doesn't have the perk of his dad almost having the authority on the city, plus he has a reputation and look of the perfect boy to maintain, which Chloé doesn't have. The fact that Chloé got to school and bullied people for 4 years and got no punishment for it didn't help her attitude, while Adrien most likely was told to please everyone, hence why he is friendly and more approchable, plus his loneliness means he was going to be nice to get some friends maybe, as if he's not perfect or charming, his reputation will go in shamble and he will disappoint his father, something he clearly doesn't want to, but he still needs to live a little.

      If his mom is evil then at least she is a good mother to her son, but I doubt she is evil, just extremely protective of her only son about as much as her husband is. But I'll wait until we get an episode showing her behavior to get a solid opinion of her.

      No, that's true- I usually do see you criticising her, but you have admitted when she does well, though this is the first I can recall of it. I often see people critcising you for it elsewhere- "we get that you hate Marinette" and you never deny it, so people simply assume it's true. It's that it's always followed by a "but..." that makes it feel like you're actively trying to not like her? If that makes sense? We all know she's flawed. I guess I'm more just trying to explain why people think you utterly despise Marinette and why it's a little jarring to hear you say a nice thing about her, and why it feels you accent on her negatives- you compliment her, and then follow it with "but", like that good thing doesn't matter. It's like if I said "I really like Kagami, but I find her design so creepy". It lessens the impact of the fact that I like Kagami's character. Er, if that makes sense. I think it's just an English thing.

      I'm at a perfect loss as to where that line came from, but the only thing I can think of is that she "doesn't deserve him" as an opponent right then, when she was akumatised. Adrien doesn't react to it like it's meant to be romantic. It's such a weird, unneeded line.

      I would put the accent on Chloe's name if my keyboard had it. Thank you for that little lesson! I just think Cat Noir is cuter, since it's both English and French and somehow makes Cat Noir look like more of a dork? I do defer to the French version if I have questions, though.

      I dunno, it's still a little odd to me that Adrien doesn't have more of a disconnect with people.

      Most people want her to be Le Paon, but I don't think I'd like Adrien to have two supervillain parents. Personally, I'm fond of her being Chloe's mother, Audrey, but I am in a minority compared to those who want Le Paon to be Mrs Agreste or Nathalie, or even those who want her to be Kagami's mother.

      As to Marinette, I would very much like for Marinette herself to become of import so she has some purpose. If she is related to La Coccinelle and/or the Ancient Chinese Ladybug and that is important in some way, if someone she's close to is Le Paon, if she is specifically targeted by Le Paon for some reason... something to involve Marinette personally would be nice. As for now she is being tugged along by the story.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      No, that's true- I usually do see you criticising her, but you have admitted when she does well, though this is the first I can recall of it. I often see people critcising you for it elsewhere- "we get that you hate Marinette" and you never deny it, so people simply assume it's true. It's that it's always followed by a "but..." that makes it feel like you're actively trying to not like her? If that makes sense? We all know she's flawed. I guess I'm more just trying to explain why people think you utterly despise Marinette and why it's a little jarring to hear you say a nice thing about her, and why it feels you accent on her negatives- you compliment her, and then follow it with "but", like that good thing doesn't matter. It's like if I said "I really like Kagami, but I find her design so creepy". It lessens the impact of the fact that I like Kagami's character. Er, if that makes sense. I think it's just an English thing.

      I'm at a perfect loss as to where that line came from, but the only thing I can think of is that she "doesn't deserve him" as an opponent right then, when she was akumatised. Adrien doesn't react to it like it's meant to be romantic. It's such a weird, unneeded line.

      I would put the accent on Chloe's name if my keyboard had it. Thank you for that little lesson! I just think Cat Noir is cuter, since it's both English and French and somehow makes Cat Noir look like more of a dork? I do defer to the French version if I have questions, though.

      I dunno, it's still a little odd to me that Adrien doesn't have more of a disconnect with people.

      Most people want her to be Le Paon, but I don't think I'd like Adrien to have two supervillain parents. Personally, I'm fond of her being Chloe's mother, Audrey, but I am in a minority compared to those who want Le Paon to be Mrs Agreste or Nathalie, or even those who want her to be Kagami's mother.

      As to Marinette, I would very much like for Marinette herself to become of import so she has some purpose. If she is related to La Coccinelle and/or the Ancient Chinese Ladybug and that is important in some way, if someone she's close to is Le Paon, if she is specifically targeted by Le Paon for some reason... something to involve Marinette personally would be nice. As for now she is being tugged along by the story.

      I don't like how she's handled by the writers sometimes, hence I don't like how they write her in episodes like Volpina, Antibug, Prime Queen, Despair Bear, The Puppeteer, The Gamer, The Befana and the The Bubbler. Her being jealous anytime Chloé is with Adrien, even if the latter as a crush on him, she's still his childhood friend, and his first friend overwall who he hadn't known for years, and them just being together sometimes and her being angry about it seems a bit harsh considering she only had known him for less than a year, heck not even liking him the first time at all, then going to hate from loving him in a second, then pratically calling dibs on him and having his entire schedule despite the fact that she can hardly talk to him at all, it kinds of make it weird to root for her when I take all of that plus her behavior in episodes in consideration. Until she gets better, I won't stop pointing her flaws all the way. If the writers would write her better, I would like her more, but sometimes her behavior plus the fact that she gets away with everything without hardly a slap on the wrist, plus never seeing her actually fail at anything, except not tripping over her own feet or wooing Adrien, seems a bit boring that she wins everytime has Marinette, she always does as Ladybug, so maybe they could balance by having her fail, we see Adrien not getting what he wants half the time, it's kind of not fair I think? Even if she's the protagonist, still she could be handled more realistically, cause it's a kid show, and if kids sees her getting away with lying and stealing without any punishment or stern talking, what does it teach them? Not good things that what. If you tell me that her karma is the akuma she creates, still after their defeated she's not seen for the worse, and still get what she wants anyway, except winning with Adrien in Gamer, but with Max it was good too. But still. But even if I did ended liking her character a lot, I wouldn't want her to end with Adrien at the show's end. Too predictable and boring for me. I never ship the female lead with the male lead in anything, mostly because it's just to easy. The one time I did was in Harry Potter, Hermione and Harry would have been great, but I don't mind Harry/Ginny and Hermion/Ron either. What I mean is that the other girls give more depths and different interactions who are sometimes better than with the female lead, I mean we see the female lead all the time, so other girls are sometimes a breath of fresh hair.

      I don't mind if you like Kagami but that you find her design creepy, honestly I have no problem with her look, they made her look japanese with her eyes to difference her from Sabine's look, and that was the result of it. I still find her cute, thought I have a little reserve as for her eyebrows. Anyway maybe she'll look better in normal clothes and not her fencing gear. And yes I get your point, but still we can't like everything in a character, sometimes I'm annoyed at how Chat Noir is being thrown around like a ragdoll to make Ladybug look more competent or serious than him, thought it gets even back in their civilian identities. What peeves me is that she tells him to stop flirting, but flirts back all the time, and it encourages him, and she doesn't seem to realise it, and I'm kind of stop flirting back if you don't like him that way. It just seems she's leading him on, and I feel bad for him. I do wish he would start focusing more on the akuma than on Ladybug, only way for that seems his dad being in trouble. Kind of hope to see him more serious in the future as Chat Noir, at least when he's fighting. And maybe have Plagg being nicer to him too. But still, right now I'll be the Marinette's hater for this fandom until the writers do her some serious favors in term of her crush and jealousy and otherwise questionnable behavior when a problem is thrown in her face as a civilian and her first thought will not be to panic and flails around uselessly, making things worse, like in Copycat and The Mime, where she panicked holding phones and choose the wrong buttons while panicking, leading her to steal phones to save face. Still don't lose your head if I praise her there and there sometimes, if there is not but, you can actually start wondering if the apocalypse will come, depending if the writers actually didn't do anything to make her do something wrong in a spectacular fashion or a mishap.

      I hope Le Paon will be Kagami herself, not her mom. Would be unexpected. Love Kagami, but I wouldn't mind her seeing as a villain, she would be so cool. Yeah I know it's weird since I love Kagami and I want to see her as a villain, but hey, wouldn't that be fun? Don't try to find a logic to these thoughts, I don't have one for them, it just went in my head once and I've been clinging to it since last week. Mostly because of her hairstyle, which could be the good one for Le Paon's being so short.  

      I doubt Marinette would be a descendant of a past Ladybug, but I would see Kagami being a descendant of Tentomushi. TV. Tropes already is on that case.

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    • That's fair. Though I think it's more to do with her dislike of Chloé than it is jealousy, but only in Chloé's case. But there's nothing Marinette could do that would make her deserve Adrien? I think they're potentially quite adorable. I usually don't ship things unless I think they'd go well together or there's some grounds for it. It's why I don't ship Chloé with anyone- as of now, she'll just be an abusive girlfriend. It's why I haven't immediately jumped on the Kagami and Luka bandwagons. It doesn't make sense to me to ship people just because they're not the main leads. Also, Harry/Hermione would be shipping the leading characters, wouldn't it? Cuz they and Ron are the leading characters of the story, with Ginny as a secondary character. Or do you mean you never ship the canon ships? I have a friend who is the opposite- he refuses to even entertain the idea of non-canon ships.

      I think it's more Kagami's hemlet-like hair coupled with her eyes, but I'm not sure. It also might be that she contrasts so sharply with Kim (Vietnamese) and Sabine (Chinese), neither of whom have such long, narrow eyes.

      I'll leave the fact that you slammed Ladybug when you were I think trying to critcise Cat Noir stand without further comment. I don't think she realises she's flirting with Cat Noir, honestly. The only time I can distinctly remember her doing it on purpose was when she was goading Copycat, not Cat Noir. I think she just thinks she's being playful with him or teasing but it comes off as flirty. She constantly waffles between being his friend and being strictly professional with him. She might actually have some interest in him, but won't admit it to herself because of how it would never work in her eyes because of the wall Tikki has her put up with their identities and professionalism. And I really do think Tikki is to blame, considering how blasé Marinette is in "Lady Wifi" and "Prime Queen", where she shrugs off the idea that Alya knows her identity (keeping in mind this episode happened in September, according to Chloe), how down she sounds at the end of the episode when telling Cat Noir that "No one must know who we really are. Not even us", and how she brushes off Tikki's concerns again in "Prime Queen". She also constantly hints her identity to him and brushed it off when he says they might know each other in normal life, also in "Lady Wifi". She's kind of an idiot as Ladybug and I would much prefer her to get attacked by the akuma villain than Cat Noir a few times.

      Like, I really do agree with you on a lot of points, but it feels like you're taking it on yourself to like, be the concentrated dislike people should have for Marinette's actions? I don't know if that makes sense. Like instead of pointing out that she's got a lot of flaws, you tend to harshly crticise her. When I was editing around before, I can think of two instances where you do this. The first is on the page for "Riposte" where unprompted, this is all you had to say:

      Urgh, so Marinette takes fencing. Why? To get closer to Adrien? Can't they let him his things and her hers? It's like Adrien trying to make clothes. Let the protagonists with each of their personal interests, please. She doesn't need to try to like the things he does to get in his good graces, or just to get closer to him. It's like she forcing herself to do it just to get more in common with him. Can't we have an episode where something Adrien does doesn't end with Marinette somewhere? Marinette gets to do things without Adrien in the picture, why can't Adrien does something without her being there. Give him some space, seriously. Couldn't we just have Adrien and Kagami in fencing? Why the heck is Marinette there? She didn't take it last season, so why now?

      You didn't talk about anything except your fury that she's taking fencing. True, this was from 11 days ago, so before "Riposte" aired, but you had nothing else to say about the episode. Both of the reply comments are surprised at how you lashed out at this one detail and thinking you should dial it back. The second example is how you jump on people for shipping Adrien and Marinette, like you did on Kagami's page:

      Geez, everyone lose their mind about Adrien friendzoning Marinette despite Marinette doing that to Chat Noir as Ladybug pretty much every episodes in much more mean and cold ways and not even being considerate about his feelings sometimes, so her getting friendzoned by her crush while she was eavesdroping the conversation doesn't get my sympathie with her. Kagami is still the first he kinds of like at first sight, it wasn't love at first sight with Ladybug, Marinette, Chloé and Lila.

      This kind of stuff is what bothers people and why people have thought you hate Marinette and don't see any good in her or want to see good in her. The actual comment only mentioned their disappointment in passing and immediately cheered up right after. It was largely about how they think insisting someone is "just a friend" is more in line with suspiciously specific denial than it is anything else, and how they though they'd get sick of the memes and jokes about Adrien "Just a Friend" Agreste, but they haven't. But you jumped on them for saying "(because Adrien 'just a friend' Agreste struck again)" and criticised them for not shipping him with Kagami because you interpreted his look to her as "like at first sight" that he didn't have with any other girl.

      I do agree that Marinette is flawed. Wholeheartedly, I agree she's flawed in a bad way and needs to be worked on. However, I think you should rework your approach to critcising her. This tactic of what I think is meant to be brutal honesty doesn't come off well. It won't convince people to acknowledge you've a point. Instead of saying something to the effect of "To be fair, Ladybug does the same thing to Cat Noir. She's always insisting they're 'just a team' and she's usually pretty harsh about it", you attacked that person. It's one thing to be critcial of a character, and another to utterly slam them with no mercy. I prefer your "She was surprisingly fine in 'Riposte', but she shouldn't have been in the episode" approach. Sure, it's pretty back-handed, but it's much more polite and I understand where you're coming from more than I do when all you do is shout-but-somehow-not-shout about how you despise Marinette. It's totally fair to criticise her when she has a bad episode, like "Volpina" and "Prime Queen", and point out her errors in an episode like "Riposte", but I guess what I'm saying is I don't really understand why she has to have a totally perfect episode where Marinette serves a purpose as Marinette and doesn't mess up at all and Cat Noir doesn't get thrown under the bus to make Ladybug look good for you to just give Marinette credit without needing to add "but she still sucks" to the end of your sentence complimenting her.

      If there's one thing I've learnt from both working in a school and watching the Social Justice Warriors on the internet and from other things, it's that being rude and belittling people and being aggressive will not help you. You don't so much point out that Marinette is flawed as you do demand that everyone sees her the way you do. You don't say that directly, but it's implied with your wording quite often. I mean, look at how I'm critcicising you right now. I am, in fact, voicing a criticism, but I don't think I'm being rude about it. I certainly hope it doesn't come off that way. I'm offering an explanation for why people think you hate her so much, why people think you find her irredeemable (which until now, was my impression), why it's a little surprising to hear you say a nice thing about her, why it's hard to take the nice thing you said as a genuine compliment to her character, and how you can fix the way people interpret you. It's like hearing Chloé say a nice thing about Marinette, unprompted, and meaning it. Because of the way you act in other places (like the two quotes above), it affects how the rest of what you say is said if people (like me) are familiar with you.

      I know that's happened to me, and that one of our administrators hates me because I pointed something out to them and they didn't like my wording. So they seems to just think I'm inconsiderate and I don't read before I reply. In reality, what I did was point out they were jumping to (admittedly sound) conclusions and asked them to undo some edits they made until things were confirmed on the small off-chance they were wrong. Then I had the audacity to reply to the wrong comment elsewhere because I was on my phone during my lunch and tapped the wrong box. Someone else had already pointed out i made a mistake, but this admin in question added a rather snide reply about how it would be nice if I read things entirely. Then they edited their comments from the conversation where I pointed out they were jumping to conclusions to make me seem like a jerk. They haven't exactly let up on their hatred of me. They're very quick to call me out for making a mistake, to the point I no longer want to leave comments on pages anymore because of how harshly they come down on me. If I do, I meticulously check what I wrote so I can't trigger their wrath. Then half the time I decide it's not worth it.

      Anyway, I'm digressing on two levels. I really hope I'm not overstepping a boundary or anything. From one editor to another, I just want to help. Like I said- it's fine to criticise Marinette, but you don't go about it very well. "Overall in 'Riposte', I was surprised by Marinette's behaviour (elaborate)" "However, I didn't see a point in her being in the episode and I didn't like how she only joined fencing to show off to Adrien (as she says in the French dub). Fencing should just be Adrien's thing. Marinette needs to give him some space and stop doing things just because Adrien is (like going to the party in "Despair Bear" and taking fencing). I think Marinette didn't really need to appear in this episode, or at least she could have just been a spectator". Ugh that is not some of my best writing, even for a compressed example... It's just meant to show how I would have voiced your complaints. It helps to keep the good points separated from the bad and to elaborate a little on more than just the bad things. Then the good things you said are no longer paled by the bad. Or if you have mostly bad things to say, it helps to put the good on the end, so that the good points aren't paled by the bad and so it looks like you didn't totally hate everything (unless you did, like I would feel about "Volpina", which was a terrible episode with everyone acting OOC imo). It's something I learnt about writing a while back.

      Gah, digressing again.

      I think the only flaw with the idea that Kagami is Le Paon is that Le Paon seems to be an adult, and that Le Paon's hair doesn't seem to be short so much as it's pulled back into a bun. Although, it could just be slicked back, like how Cat Noir's hair is messier than Adrien's. 'Tis a nice idea, though. I just balk at the idea she's Mrs Agreste or Nathalie. Don't want Mrs Agreste to be evil, don't think Nathalie can be Le Paon if she knows Gabriel is Hawk Moth. Also, she has no access to the Peacock Miraculous unless she already has it. I know it'll probably be Mrs Agreste, but I really don't want it to be.

      Ahh you saw that, hm? I proposed the idea, but someone else wrote the actual WMG. I'm actually hanging out on that page while I write this. I actually wouldn't mind if Marinette was related to a past Ladybug, especially since she does look like La Coccinelle and the Ancient Chinese Ladybug, both of whom follow official show designs. It makes more sense for her to be than Kagami, but I don't want both of them to be related to past Ladybugs. Be overkill, I reckon.

      I agree with your overall assessment of "Riposte", I think. Episode could have done without Marinette (but I think she was used well in the episode and perhaps could have better been used as a spectator there at the school for something else rather than the fencing. She just stopped in to see Adrien), Marinette needs to stop doing stuff just cuz Adrien is, she was overall very pleasant in the episode, her shout of "she doesn't deserve you" was utterly bizarre and out of place, and I look forward to seeing more of Kagami. About the only things we divulge on is how you already think Adrien has feelings for Kagami and want them to grow and want to see Luka so that Adrien and Marinette stop being a focus, and how I actually enjoyed seeing Marinette in the episode and wouldn't want her to not appear.

      I mean, why deny us the funny scene of her telling Adrien about how tall he is and how she finds him handsome while he just stands there and lets her ramble, then thanks her for the compliments and she freaks out? I thought it was very entertaining. But I guess if you hate the ship, it's just a stupid scene.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      That's fair. Though I think it's more to do with her dislike of Chloé than it is jealousy, but only in Chloé's case. But there's nothing Marinette could do that would make her deserve Adrien? I think they're potentially quite adorable. I usually don't ship things unless I think they'd go well together or there's some grounds for it. It's why I don't ship Chloé with anyone- as of now, she'll just be an abusive girlfriend. It's why I haven't immediately jumped on the Kagami and Luka bandwagons. It doesn't make sense to me to ship people just because they're not the main leads. Also, Harry/Hermione would be shipping the leading characters, wouldn't it? Cuz they and Ron are the leading characters of the story, with Ginny as a secondary character. Or do you mean you never ship the canon ships? I have a friend who is the opposite- he refuses to even entertain the idea of non-canon ships.

      I think it's more Kagami's hemlet-like hair coupled with her eyes, but I'm not sure. It also might be that she contrasts so sharply with Kim (Vietnamese) and Sabine (Chinese), neither of whom have such long, narrow eyes.

      I'll leave the fact that you slammed Ladybug when you were I think trying to critcise Cat Noir stand without further comment. I don't think she realises she's flirting with Cat Noir, honestly. The only time I can distinctly remember her doing it on purpose was when she was goading Copycat, not Cat Noir. I think she just thinks she's being playful with him or teasing but it comes off as flirty. She constantly waffles between being his friend and being strictly professional with him. She might actually have some interest in him, but won't admit it to herself because of how it would never work in her eyes because of the wall Tikki has her put up with their identities and professionalism. And I really do think Tikki is to blame, considering how blasé Marinette is in "Lady Wifi" and "Prime Queen", where she shrugs off the idea that Alya knows her identity (keeping in mind this episode happened in September, according to Chloe), how down she sounds at the end of the episode when telling Cat Noir that "No one must know who we really are. Not even us", and how she brushes off Tikki's concerns again in "Prime Queen". She also constantly hints her identity to him and brushed it off when he says they might know each other in normal life, also in "Lady Wifi". She's kind of an idiot as Ladybug and I would much prefer her to get attacked by the akuma villain than Cat Noir a few times.

      Like, I really do agree with you on a lot of points, but it feels like you're taking it on yourself to like, be the concentrated dislike people should have for Marinette's actions? I don't know if that makes sense. Like instead of pointing out that she's got a lot of flaws, you tend to harshly crticise her. When I was editing around before, I can think of two instances where you do this. The first is on the page for "Riposte" where unprompted, this is all you had to say:


      Urgh, so Marinette takes fencing. Why? To get closer to Adrien? Can't they let him his things and her hers? It's like Adrien trying to make clothes. Let the protagonists with each of their personal interests, please. She doesn't need to try to like the things he does to get in his good graces, or just to get closer to him. It's like she forcing herself to do it just to get more in common with him. Can't we have an episode where something Adrien does doesn't end with Marinette somewhere? Marinette gets to do things without Adrien in the picture, why can't Adrien does something without her being there. Give him some space, seriously. Couldn't we just have Adrien and Kagami in fencing? Why the heck is Marinette there? She didn't take it last season, so why now?
      You didn't talk about anything except your fury that she's taking fencing. True, this was from 11 days ago, so before "Riposte" aired, but you had nothing else to say about the episode. Both of the reply comments are surprised at how you lashed out at this one detail and thinking you should dial it back.

      The second example is how you jump on people for shipping Adrien and Marinette, like you did on Kagami's page:


      Geez, everyone lose their mind about Adrien friendzoning Marinette despite Marinette doing that to Chat Noir as Ladybug pretty much every episodes in much more mean and cold ways and not even being considerate about his feelings sometimes, so her getting friendzoned by her crush while she was eavesdroping the conversation doesn't get my sympathie with her. Kagami is still the first he kinds of like at first sight, it wasn't love at first sight with Ladybug, Marinette, Chloé and Lila.
      This kind of stuff is what bothers people and why people have thought you hate Marinette and don't see any good in her or want to see good in her. The actual comment only mentioned their disappointment in passing and immediately cheered up right after. It was largely about how they think insisting someone is "just a friend" is more in line with suspiciously specific denial than it is anything else, and how they though they'd get sick of the memes and jokes about Adrien "Just a Friend" Agreste, but they haven't. But you jumped on them for saying "(because Adrien 'just a friend' Agreste struck again)" and criticised them for not shipping him with Kagami because you interpreted his look to her as "like at first sight" that he didn't have with any other girl.

      I do agree that Marinette is flawed. Wholeheartedly, I agree she's flawed in a bad way and needs to be worked on. However, I think you should rework your approach to critcising her. This tactic of what I think is meant to be brutal honesty doesn't come off well. It won't convince people to acknowledge you've a point. Instead of saying something to the effect of "To be fair, Ladybug does the same thing to Cat Noir. She's always insisting they're 'just a team' and she's usually pretty harsh about it", you attacked that person. It's one thing to be critcial of a character, and another to utterly slam them with no mercy. I prefer your "She was surprisingly fine in 'Riposte', but she shouldn't have been in the episode" approach. Sure, it's pretty back-handed, but it's much more polite and I understand where you're coming from more than I do when all you do is shout-but-somehow-not-shout about how you despise Marinette. It's totally fair to criticise her when she has a bad episode, like "Volpina" and "Prime Queen", and point out her errors in an episode like "Riposte", but I guess what I'm saying is I don't really understand why she has to have a totally perfect episode where Marinette serves a purpose as Marinette and doesn't mess up at all and Cat Noir doesn't get thrown under the bus to make Ladybug look good for you to just give Marinette credit without needing to add "but she still sucks" to the end of your sentence complimenting her.

      If there's one thing I've learnt from both working in a school and watching the Social Justice Warriors on the internet and from other things, it's that being rude and belittling people and being aggressive will not help you. You don't so much point out that Marinette is flawed as you do demand that everyone sees her the way you do. You don't say that directly, but it's implied with your wording quite often. I mean, look at how I'm critcicising you right now. I am, in fact, voicing a criticism, but I don't think I'm being rude about it. I certainly hope it doesn't come off that way. I'm offering an explanation for why people think you hate her so much, why people think you find her irredeemable (which until now, was my impression), why it's a little surprising to hear you say a nice thing about her, why it's hard to take the nice thing you said as a genuine compliment to her character, and how you can fix the way people interpret you. It's like hearing Chloé say a nice thing about Marinette, unprompted, and meaning it. Because of the way you act in other places (like the two quotes above), it affects how the rest of what you say is said if people (like me) are familiar with you.

      I know that's happened to me, and that one of our administrators hates me because I pointed something out to them and they didn't like my wording. So they seems to just think I'm inconsiderate and I don't read before I reply. In reality, what I did was point out they were jumping to (admittedly sound) conclusions and asked them to undo some edits they made until things were confirmed on the small off-chance they were wrong. Then I had the audacity to reply to the wrong comment elsewhere because I was on my phone during my lunch and tapped the wrong box. Someone else had already pointed out i made a mistake, but this admin in question added a rather snide reply about how it would be nice if I read things entirely. Then they edited their comments from the conversation where I pointed out they were jumping to conclusions to make me seem like a jerk. They haven't exactly let up on their hatred of me. They're very quick to call me out for making a mistake, to the point I no longer want to leave comments on pages anymore because of how harshly they come down on me. If I do, I meticulously check what I wrote so I can't trigger their wrath. Then half the time I decide it's not worth it.

      Anyway, I'm digressing on two levels. I really hope I'm not overstepping a boundary or anything. From one editor to another, I just want to help. Like I said- it's fine to criticise Marinette, but you don't go about it very well. "Overall in 'Riposte', I was surprised by Marinette's behaviour (elaborate)" "However, I didn't see a point in her being in the episode and I didn't like how she only joined fencing to show off to Adrien (as she says in the French dub). Fencing should just be Adrien's thing. Marinette needs to give him some space and stop doing things just because Adrien is (like going to the party in "Despair Bear" and taking fencing). I think Marinette didn't really need to appear in this episode, or at least she could have just been a spectator". Ugh that is not some of my best writing, even for a compressed example... It's just meant to show how I would have voiced your complaints. It helps to keep the good points separated from the bad and to elaborate a little on more than just the bad things. Then the good things you said are no longer paled by the bad. Or if you have mostly bad things to say, it helps to put the good on the end, so that the good points aren't paled by the bad and so it looks like you didn't totally hate everything (unless you did, like I would feel about "Volpina", which was a terrible episode with everyone acting OOC imo). It's something I learnt about writing a while back.

      Gah, digressing again.

      I think the only flaw with the idea that Kagami is Le Paon is that Le Paon seems to be an adult, and that Le Paon's hair doesn't seem to be short so much as it's pulled back into a bun. Although, it could just be slicked back, like how Cat Noir's hair is messier than Adrien's. 'Tis a nice idea, though. I just balk at the idea she's Mrs Agreste or Nathalie. Don't want Mrs Agreste to be evil, don't think Nathalie can be Le Paon if she knows Gabriel is Hawk Moth. Also, she has no access to the Peacock Miraculous unless she already has it. I know it'll probably be Mrs Agreste, but I really don't want it to be.

      Ahh you saw that, hm? I proposed the idea, but someone else wrote the actual WMG. I'm actually hanging out on that page while I write this. I actually wouldn't mind if Marinette was related to a past Ladybug, especially since she does look like La Coccinelle and the Ancient Chinese Ladybug, both of whom follow official show designs. It makes more sense for her to be than Kagami, but I don't want both of them to be related to past Ladybugs. Be overkill, I reckon.

      I agree with your overall assessment of "Riposte", I think. Episode could have done without Marinette (but I think she was used well in the episode and perhaps could have better been used as a spectator there at the school for something else rather than the fencing. She just stopped in to see Adrien), Marinette needs to stop doing stuff just cuz Adrien is, she was overall very pleasant in the episode, her shout of "she doesn't deserve you" was utterly bizarre and out of place, and I look forward to seeing more of Kagami. About the only things we divulge on is how you already think Adrien has feelings for Kagami and want them to grow and want to see Luka so that Adrien and Marinette stop being a focus, and how I actually enjoyed seeing Marinette in the episode and wouldn't want her to not appear.

      I mean, why deny us the funny scene of her telling Adrien about how tall he is and how she finds him handsome while he just stands there and lets her ramble, then thanks her for the compliments and she freaks out? I thought it was very entertaining. But I guess if you hate the ship, it's just a stupid scene.

      Harry/Hermione is pretty much the only lead ship I ever approved of before knowing that they wouldn't end up together, marking them as my one time exception. I have nothing against Harry/Ginny and Hermione/Ron, because know that I think about it, it was pretty much the only way to get Ron not ending single, because honestly Ron/Luna would have been probably the weridest ship ever, albeit a cute one, but otherwise who else would he end up with? And actually Ginny is the first named girl that Harry met in the story, before Hermione, but since she was a secondary character, she came out good, that and I never read the books, I only watched the movies. I was what, seven, when the first movie came out or something? Anyway the only exception that I wouldn't have minded being canon, but since it didn't, I suppose it doesn't count? Cause it does if they are canons, but if they don't then I can't actually say that they were like the rest that I'm used too, but then again their dynamic was better than what I'm used to see in anime, manga, tv shows and litterature. 

      Even if Tikki says they shouldn't tell each others identities, Marinette still follows her rules regardless, while Gabriel doesn't care and flats out just use Nooroo without him saying anything about it, and Plagg seems to have no problem with it, maybe because he thinks it a lost cause, because they will figure it out eventually, and he knows that it's hopeless to just expect that nobody will figure them out, or something. 

      Well we all know that Marinette is a nice girl overall when her feelings and temper don't get the best of her, heck what do you think I read almost all the time on this wiki? I just don't see why I should be singing her praises alongside her fanclub when it's written all over the wiki by pretty much every users, so I don't feel the need to write something nice about her that everyone wrote over it already a dozen time. I don't need to write it, everyone else already does, no matter what negative thing I say about her, people will always come to her defense even if they agree with some of the things I say, so I'm not gonna make an effort to walk in with the parade. While the rest of you concentrate on her good side, I will take on her bad sides, like I'll be the devil and everyone else angels. No offence, I know that in half the episodes she acts great, but sometimes she acts so out of place from her normal behavior that it just doesn't cut out for me how the writers writes her in a bad way. In The Pharaoh, Mr Pigeon, Animan, Lady Wifi, Mime, and Pixelator, she was just fine thought.

      I'm sorry if I comes across as so blunt and harsh that it makes people feels that I insult or belittling them, these are not my intentions. I'm autistic, with some serious social lacking skills, mostly because I don't have any filters at all sometimes. So when I sometimes look downright rude and incensitive sometimes, it's not intentional. My brain doesn't tell me that it's not okay to say things this way or that way, so sometimes I offend people by being so blunt and honest that it makes people sad or angry with me, but I mean no harm. If I would mean harm, I would insult people dowright to their face and not in some reading between the lines way, trust me and I would also swear so much I would be banned, so don't worry, I'm not being rude for fun, mostly because I don't realise it. My own parents sometimes tell me that I'm not so nice or that I'm dowright not appropritate or that I have no sympathy, but my brain just doesn't get it unless you tell me so sometimes. I apologize to everyone who taught I was insulting or belittling them, it wasn't my intentions in the slightest. Very sorry about that. Please don't stop telling me if I step out of line, it's how I can try to correct myself to be better so I won't hurt people's feelings unintentionally. In fact I'm glad you do. I'm 23 years old, so don't hold back I can take it. Thank you for being so patient with me, I must be driving you crazy sometimes with my comments.

      I still hope the writer will write Marinette better, because the last few episodes were a bit disappointing in that department. Riposte was arguably one of her best, but I still think she could have been writed off and just appear as Ladybug, because honestly anybody else could have been at her place, and it wouldn't have changed a thing probably. Or just get Alix instead of her, her being on fencing seems like it could go with her sporty personality, she is on the lacrosse team with Adrien, Kim and Ivan, so maybe having her taking fencing to challenge herself or just to know if she could have the spot because it looked fun would have been a bit more into character for her, plus having Adrien interacting with someone else who ain't Chloé, Nino or Marinette. Because apart from those 3, and once Mylène and Max, how often do we see him interact with the rest of the class separatly? Never. In Origins he wants to go to school and have friends, and while he seems to be friends with everyone, we hardly see him interact with them apart from Nino, Marinette and Chloé, and sometimes Alya. Marinette interacts with everyoen, but not him. Heck I think we just saw him speak to Ms Bustier once to answer her question, and just once with Ms Mendeliev to go to the bathroom so he could transform. Isn't it kind of ridiculous that the guy who wanted to have many friends hardly interacts with 3/4 of it? Yeah he shows up when they're all there, but you get what I mean, right? He needs to interact with more different characters, and it almost seems like the only way to do that in the writers mind is to have battle their akumatized self, which pratically gives them more interactions in one episode than in an entire season, or to write him new girls who will become love interests (Lila and Kagami) who ends up having talked more to him in just their debut episode alone than the rest of his classmates, which kinds of make the pill hard to swallow for me.

      The funny scene when she wonders where Adrien is before she notices him is funny, but if it hadn't been him, imagine what that person would have thougth? Something like: "don't tell me that you're here just for Adrien and not actually fence" or something like that? Wouldn't be nice for that person. I think it just gave away that she was pratically there only for Adrien, otherwise she would have just asked how they would start. That's what I thought anyway.

      Sorry for replying so late, I actually tried to answer a few hours ago, but I did a wrong move and ended up deleting my half an hour hard work of writing my comment down. Yes, that's how long it takes me to write it all down, I wasn't happy. This one is different, but still pretty close to what I tried to wrote before.

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    • I love that you like Ginny, considering how so few people do (due in part to her godawful writing in the movies). The first movie was out in 2001. 16 November, 2001, to be exact. And yes I do know that off-hand. But that's because I have the original movie posters on my wall. Everything else about Harry Potter I know completely off-hand, it's quite pathetic. The only non-pathetic Harry Potter fact I can recite is that Hermione's birthday is 19 September. It doesn't count as pathetic because that's also my birthday.

      Hm, have you seen Marinette's page? The comments on it (at least when I went to her page look for something and teleported myself to the bottom of the page like a ninny) are just people talking about how much they hate her. I'll point out her flaws where they need addressed, like I strongly criticse her in "Volpina" and you might have noticed, "Prime Queen", but I won't go out of my way to remind people of every bad thing she's done and say she shouldn't get to be with Adrien like some people do. You're not the only person who hates her.

      Oh gosh I feel bad D: I didn't mean for you to have to explain something so personal. I'm really sorry... I'm glad I can help, though. I mean, I'm unwittingly rude, Tansy has politely pointed it out to me, but often only when my buttons are getting pressed by someone either not listening to me or telling me things I already know like I'm an idiot (these are two of my berserk buttons, along with "Am I the only one who...?". Never has a string of words been sure to make me do the anime "irritation shock" in my mind than those). And no, you're not driving me crazy. I work with children for a living, it takes a lot to drive me crazy. It's really something to be disrespected and humiliated by a kid a third your age and be completely unable to do anything about it because they're only 8 and also hold little power because you are not only a para, but a para-sub. So I rank somewhere just above "student body council" in terms of the level of respect I get from my coworkers and charges.

      He occasionally speaks to Miss Bustier and Ms Mendeleiev, usually to dismiss himself from class. In "Princess Fragrance" he boredly answers the former's question. It would be nice for them to write Marinette better. Considering these episodes aren't meant to have filler, we A) might have an actual order to the episodes for Season 2 and B) Marinette might be allowed to improve. The nicest thing about "Riposte" is how she seems to have learnt from "Volpina" to not be so aggressive with her jealousy (if she even was jealous in the episode). Though, I honestly think what angered her more in "Volpina" was Lila's lying. She's not usually so proactive in breaking Adrien away from a girl. Jealousy was certainly a factor, but she's never that aggressive. "Prime Queen"... she acts pretty much like she did in "Volpina". Rude, dismissive, impatient, mistrustful, and weirdly possessive of Cat Noir. Well, maybe not that last one in "Prime Queen". Going back to Adrien and friends thing, Nino doesn't actually appear much. It bothers me quite a lot, and why I'm totally OK with him being Carapace. For being Adrien's BFF, he doesn't show much. We really don't see a whole lot of Adrien interacting with people. Cat Noir, yes, but not so much Adrien. I... feel about the same about Lila as you do about Marinette, though I feel I am a minority. Most others can't wait for her to come back.

      I would have just thought she wanted to fence with her friend because that would be more comfortable for her and would have helped her find him. But if he was already paired up, I'd offer to partner her. She is rather known for being a nice, if rather awkard and clumsy, girl. I might have also thought Adrien offered to partner her before the class because Marinette is so clumsy and he's a nice guy in that way. I don't know if the idea that she's only there for Adrien would ever cross my mind, especially with her reputation for being so nice and talented.

      I hate it when that happens. So much. Sorry for my own late reply- I was doing art.

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    • It's okay, I'm quite open about my condition. It really surprised my psychiatrist when I told her I didn,t mind, granted I was 16 when I had my diagnostic, it took my parents 5 years to tell me about it and have an appointment for that. We're really slow on those thing in Québec, the rest of the Canada has it smooth for medical appointment and everything.

      Glad to see I'm not the only one who doesn't like Marinette. I like Lila, Chloé and Kagami, mostly because they are so different from her, althought I'm pretty sure I like them because they're more unpredictable and bring some spice to the show, which it needs.

      I can't wait to see more of Nino too. Him being akumatized because he was that upset about Adrien's situation is so sweet, he was more angry than Adrien about it, and I think he's the first victim to have been angry for someone else instead of themselves was a nice change. Can't wait to see them interact more together, probably just the 2 of them. No need to have Marinette and Alya all the time with them, those 2 have laready so much scene together alone, it's the guys turn.

      Also going back on what you said about Le Paon 2 posts ago, I'm not sure she has the body of an adult, heck just watch Ladybug and Queen Bee's design, Le Paon looks pratically the same in body shape. Her being shown aorund villains isn't a good comparaison of judging her height considering that Riposte looks taller than the Befana but in the show she is much smaller than her.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      It's okay, I'm quite open about my condition. It really surprised my psychiatrist when I told her I didn,t mind, granted I was 16 when I had my diagnostic, it took my parents 5 years to tell me about it and have an appointment for that. We're really slow on those thing in Québec, the rest of the Canada has it smooth for medical appointment and everything.

      Glad to see I'm not the only one who doesn't like Marinette. I like Lila, Chloé and Kagami, mostly because they are so different from her, althought I'm pretty sure I like them because they're more unpredictable and bring some spice to the show, which it needs.

      I can't wait to see more of Nino too. Him being akumatized because he was that upset about Adrien's situation is so sweet, he was more angry than Adrien about it, and I think he's the first victim to have been angry for someone else instead of themselves was a nice change. Can't wait to see them interact more together, probably just the 2 of them. No need to have Marinette and Alya all the time with them, those 2 have laready so much scene together alone, it's the guys turn.

      Also going back on what you said about Le Paon 2 posts ago, I'm not sure she has the body of an adult, heck just watch Ladybug and Queen Bee's design, Le Paon looks pratically the same in body shape. Her being shown aorund villains isn't a good comparaison of judging her height considering that Riposte looks taller than the Befana but in the show she is much smaller than her.

      Oh I like Chloe and Kagami, too, but I don't like Lila. I think another reason you might like her is she doesn't forgive Ladybug lol

      Well, both chronologically and in current order, yes lol. Nino is the second victim chronologically (seeing as both Adrien and Marinette make mistakes they've never made before, like forgetting about the 5 minute rule and not doing his duty) it's probably only the third episode if put in order. In current episode order, it's the first episode. But he is indeed one of the only ones.

      I guess, but I don't think they'd show a 14 year old wearing a dress like that, which is part of why I think "adult" when looking at her. Also, cuz I was just editing something on Le Paon's page, it said Le Paon is "a woman " not "a girl" or just "female", it's how we know she's female. Speaking of Le Paon, I love how they're carefully hiding Le Paon's Miraculous from sight. Cuz it's totally not the green one, I imagine. Like I pointed out on Duusu and her Miraculous's pages- the green one doesn't match at all with Duusu or Le Paon or the Ancient Chinese Peacock Miraculous holder. Most of the miraculouses blend or mesh well with their suits. But not the green brooch.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Oh I like Chloe and Kagami, too, but I don't like Lila. I think another reason you might like her is she doesn't forgive Ladybug lol

      Well, both chronologically and in current order, yes lol. Nino is the second victim chronologically (seeing as both Adrien and Marinette make mistakes they've never made before, like forgetting about the 5 minute rule and not doing his duty) it's probably only the third episode if put in order. In current episode order, it's the first episode. But he is indeed one of the only ones.

      I guess, but I don't think they'd show a 14 year old wearing a dress like that, which is part of why I think "adult" when looking at her. Also, cuz I was just editing something on Le Paon's page, it said Le Paon is "a woman " not "a girl" or just "female", it's how we know she's female. Speaking of Le Paon, I love how they're carefully hiding Le Paon's Miraculous from sight. Cuz it's totally not the green one, I imagine. Like I pointed out on Duusu and her Miraculous's pages- the green one doesn't match at all with Duusu or Le Paon or the Ancient Chinese Peacock Miraculous holder. Most of the miraculouses blend or mesh well with their suits. But not the green brooch.

      Well, she's the first one to not just accept her apology, which everyone else does on the show either when she's Marinette or Ladybug, seeing her not letting her getting off the hook so easily for once was refreshing. Quite realistic too after an enitre season of an apology fixing everything, in the real world, people won't always take an apology because even if you say you're sorry, sometimes just what you did doesn't mean you get forgiven, they are limits to what can people forgive others for. Lila representing that is why I like her. That and her design and akumatized self were great.

      For the first time of his life Adrien had a birthday party with all of his friends, I suppose it's understandable that he reacted that way. Marinette saw her parents being kidnapped and taken to the sky by bubbles, then all of her classmates being forced into a party and other kids leaved on their own, then using her powers to prevent Chloé and Adrien kissing, then taking the opportunity to sign up her gift before finally getting back to the fight a little less understandable. Adrien just saw the party, not the adults taken to the sky, so maybe he thought nobody was in danger?

      Well, okay. I vote for Kagami's mother being Le Paon then. Would be so cool since she's a world fencing champion and would have more stamina than Hawk Moth, plus giving Kagami and Adrien anotehr thing in common. If her is japanese too, she must have the same hair color, and possibly keeps her hair short like her daughter for the sport.

      Well, I remind you that Ladybug's earrings aren't visible all the time and if we didn't know it was them we wouldn't know where her miraculous would be either. So maybe the brooch is on her right side.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Well, she's the first one to not just accept her apology, which everyone else does on the show either when she's Marinette or Ladybug, seeing her not letting her getting off the hook so easily for once was refreshing. Quite realistic too after an enitre season of an apology fixing everything, in the real world, people won't always take an apology because even if you say you're sorry, sometimes just what you did doesn't mean you get forgiven, they are limits to what can people forgive others for. Lila representing that is why I like her. That and her design and akumatized self were great.

      For the first time of his life Adrien had a birthday party with all of his friends, I suppose it's understandable that he reacted that way. Marinette saw her parents being kidnapped and taken to the sky by bubbles, then all of her classmates being forced into a party and other kids leaved on their own, then using her powers to prevent Chloé and Adrien kissing, then taking the opportunity to sign up her gift before finally getting back to the fight a little less understandable. Adrien just saw the party, not the adults taken to the sky, so maybe he thought nobody was in danger?

      Well, okay. I vote for Kagami's mother being Le Paon then. Would be so cool since she's a world fencing champion and would have more stamina than Hawk Moth, plus giving Kagami and Adrien anotehr thing in common. If her is japanese too, she must have the same hair color, and possibly keeps her hair short like her daughter for the sport.

      Well, I remind you that Ladybug's earrings aren't visible all the time and if we didn't know it was them we wouldn't know where her miraculous would be either. So maybe the brooch is on her right side.

      I knew it xD I thought her outfit was cool, too.

      Adrien always transforms regardless of if there's danger or not. He's definitely got more of a sense of duty than his partner does. He's usually the quickest to react out of him and Marinette and no other episode shows him brush off an akuma like that. Take "Reflekta" for example- nobody was in actual danger, but he wasted no time transformingHe knows akumas are dangerous and doesn't usually play around until after he's transformed, so I think "The Bubbler" happens somewhere between "Origins" and "Lady Wifi". Additionally, the Bubbler says right after talking with Adrien (and telling him that his dad is gone): "Come on, everybody, I brought you here to party! (Pan over the teens dancing, but looking sad) So dance or you'll join the adults up in the sky! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

      It would be cool, but then don't you think Kagami would start to overtake the story a little, if her mom is a supervillain? She's just an ordinary civilian, classmate, and friend after all. It's kind of the same as saying you want Le Paon to be Kim's mom or Rose's mom or Ivan's mom. Take your personal preference for Kagami out for a mo', and think about how that would make her suddenly more important than Marinette, who is Ladybug, is. Especially if Kagami is also Tentomushi's descendant. She might as well just replace Marinette at that point, but the show wouldn't do that. It would work i think if Marinette thinks she's inferoir to Kagami because Kagami is descended from a past Ladybug, I suppose, but I don't think it makes sense for Kagami's mom to be Le Paon without making her way more important than Marinette is.

      I personally hope Le Paon is Chloe's mom, but I'm not sure if that's possible considering Chloe's mom hypothetically gets akumatised. Before I speculated she might be Miss Bustier, back when we didn't have a good, clear image of her. Buuut A) everyone made fun of me and B) she seems to get akumatised, too. Also they don't look alike, but that doesn't matter considering how different Hawk Moth is from Gabriel. Ideally Le Paon would be someone close to Marinette, to give Marinette an actual link to the story, but I'm fair certain that's not possible.

      Peacock
      I meant I think the people who work on the show are hiding it for a reason. It's weird that it's not visible even though it's a bright, light mint green peacock against dark blue. Heck you should be able to see it through the translucent fan, but you can't. I would guess this is because it's not the same brooch as the green brooch in Gabriel's safe. This, by the way, does work in favour of literally anyone except Nathalie being Le Paon. Right now, she would be the only one with possible access to it. If it is still the green brooch, it has to be on her back or it has to be roughly where Hawk Moth's is to be completely hidden from sight. And it's a pretty good-sized brooch. I mean, check out how big it is next to the 10cm tall Plagg (who is standing a little ways in front of it) and the photo of Mrs Agreste. And it's not even upright, so it's probably about the same height as Plagg is when it's fully upright and he is standing right beside it. And it's minty green, making it the only Miraculous that isn't the same colour as its kwami or to feature a colour that doesn't appear on its kwami. Also in "The Collector" we see a picture of the Tool and Miraculous page of the Spellbook and it doesn't show the green Miraculous at all, the thing that goes where the Miraculous goes on that page is blue.

      Also I wish to take a moment to appreciate how adorable Plagg is when standing.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Adrien always transforms regardless of if there's danger or not. He's definitely got more of a sense of duty than his partner does. He's usually the quickest to react out of him and Marinette and no other episode shows him brush off an akuma like that. Take "Reflekta" for example- nobody was in actual danger, but he wasted no time transformingHe knows akumas are dangerous and doesn't usually play around until after he's transformed, so I think "The Bubbler" happens somewhere between "Origins" and "Lady Wifi". Additionally, the Bubbler says right after talking with Adrien (and telling him that his dad is gone): "Come on, everybody, I brought you here to party! (Pan over the teens dancing, but looking sad) So dance or you'll join the adults up in the sky! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

      It would be cool, but then don't you think Kagami would start to overtake the story a little, if her mom is a supervillain? She's just an ordinary civilian, classmate, and friend after all. It's kind of the same as saying you want Le Paon to be Kim's mom or Rose's mom or Ivan's mom. Take your personal preference for Kagami out for a mo', and think about how that would make her suddenly more important than Marinette, who is Ladybug, is. Especially if Kagami is also Tentomushi's descendant. She might as well just replace Marinette at that point, but the show wouldn't do that. It would work i think if Marinette thinks she's inferoir to Kagami because Kagami is descended from a past Ladybug, I suppose, but I don't think it makes sense for Kagami's mom to be Le Paon without making her way more important than Marinette is.

      I personally hope Le Paon is Chloe's mom, but I'm not sure if that's possible considering Chloe's mom hypothetically gets akumatised. Before I speculated she might be Miss Bustier, back when we didn't have a good, clear image of her. Buuut A) everyone made fun of me and B) she seems to get akumatised, too. Also they don't look alike, but that doesn't matter considering how different Hawk Moth is from Gabriel. Ideally Le Paon would be someone close to Marinette, to give Marinette an actual link to the story, but I'm fair certain that's not possible.

      Peacock
      I meant I think the people who work on the show are hiding it for a reason. It's weird that it's not visible even though it's a bright, light mint green peacock against dark blue. Heck you should be able to see it through the translucent fan, but you can't. I would guess this is because it's not the same brooch as the green brooch in Gabriel's safe. This, by the way, does work in favour of literally anyone except Nathalie being Le Paon. Right now, she would be the only one with possible access to it. If it is still the green brooch, it has to be on her back or it has to be roughly where Hawk Moth's is to be completely hidden from sight. And it's a pretty good-sized brooch. I mean, check out how big it is next to the 10cm tall Plagg (who is standing a little ways in front of it) and the photo of Mrs Agreste. And it's not even upright, so it's probably about the same height as Plagg is when it's fully upright and he is standing right beside it. And it's minty green, making it the only Miraculous that isn't the same colour as its kwami or to feature a colour that doesn't appear on its kwami. Also in "The Collector" we see a picture of the Tool and Miraculous page of the Spellbook and it doesn't show the green Miraculous at all, the thing that goes where the Miraculous goes on that page is blue.

      Also I wish to take a moment to appreciate how adorable Plagg is when standing.

      That's why I like Adrien so much. Marinette isn't the most dutifull one as a civilian, that's for sure. I forgot about that last line, it's been a while since I saw that episode. My bad.

      I don't think so. she would be just as oblivious to her mother being a super villain as Adrien being oblivious to his father, and even after knowing after the first episode, Adrien was only more focused on in Riposte, the 4 others not that much. So I doubt it, since anyway Kagami will be shown around enough already with her being Adrien's rival in fencing and his love interest, so maybe it will just focus on her mom than her. We don't see Gabriel around his son much after Collector either, and Adrien hardly seems being more focused on than the first season, other then being a bit closer to Marinette and being better as Chat Noir maybe? Plus, technically if Le Paon is his boss, that must mean she must have fought him and won right? So she gets to be the boss and he's terrified of her because he knows she'll overpower him, and I can't see either of Nathalie, Mrs Agreste or Audrey filling the role. I go for Kagami's mom because she is an olympic winner athlete before getting the Miraculous, and getting her powers just make her more powerful already. If she's better than her daughter, which she probably is being a champion of the olympics in fencing, then both as a civilian and as a supervillain she gets to call the shots over Gabriel, who seems to be quite out of shape as Hawk Moth. Kagami's mom most likely wouldn't have a problem defending herself in close combat. Or she could just take Hawk Moth's cane and threaten him with his own sword, if she's the world champion in fencing, Gabriel would know he stands no chance against her because his weapon is exactly what she deals with all the time, hence she knows how to disarm him? Hence why I go with her. Would be out of the blue that a member of Marinette's family would be Le Paon, that would sounds havy that both protagonists are related to the 2 supervillains, hence why just one should be enough.

      Well, Nooroo's brooch is much darker than his normal color, so who knows? hey did took animals with easy colors, the peacock is more complex, got to have an exception to everything maybe? I don't know, but maybe it's just more simple for them like that, anyway we'll find out by the end of the season, so we'll get our answers. Although I would like to point out that Trixx has purple eyes which is weird considering she has nothing purple on her person, unlike Duusu who's eyes are the same color as her tail. But oh well. 

      Yes he is cute, like holder like Kwami, would that be the new saying? ;)

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      That's why I like Adrien so much. Marinette isn't the most dutifull one as a civilian, that's for sure. I forgot about that last line, it's been a while since I saw that episode. My bad.

      I don't think so. she would be just as oblivious to her mother being a super villain as Adrien being oblivious to his father, and even after knowing after the first episode, Adrien was only more focused on in Riposte, the 4 others not that much. So I doubt it, since anyway Kagami will be shown around enough already with her being Adrien's rival in fencing and his love interest, so maybe it will just focus on her mom than her. We don't see Gabriel around his son much after Collector either, and Adrien hardly seems being more focused on than the first season, other then being a bit closer to Marinette and being better as Chat Noir maybe? Plus, technically if Le Paon is his boss, that must mean she must have fought him and won right? So she gets to be the boss and he's terrified of her because he knows she'll overpower him, and I can't see either of Nathalie, Mrs Agreste or Audrey filling the role. I go for Kagami's mom because she is an olympic winner athlete before getting the Miraculous, and getting her powers just make her more powerful already. If she's better than her daughter, which she probably is being a champion of the olympics in fencing, then both as a civilian and as a supervillain she gets to call the shots over Gabriel, who seems to be quite out of shape as Hawk Moth. Kagami's mom most likely wouldn't have a problem defending herself in close combat. Or she could just take Hawk Moth's cane and threaten him with his own sword, if she's the world champion in fencing, Gabriel would know he stands no chance against her because his weapon is exactly what she deals with all the time, hence she knows how to disarm him? Hence why I go with her. Would be out of the blue that a member of Marinette's family would be Le Paon, that would sounds havy that both protagonists are related to the 2 supervillains, hence why just one should be enough.

      Well, Nooroo's brooch is much darker than his normal color, so who knows? hey did took animals with easy colors, the peacock is more complex, got to have an exception to everything maybe? I don't know, but maybe it's just more simple for them like that, anyway we'll find out by the end of the season, so we'll get our answers. Although I would like to point out that Trixx has purple eyes which is weird considering she has nothing purple on her person, unlike Duusu who's eyes are the same color as her tail. But oh well. 

      Yes he is cute, like holder like Kwami, would that be the new saying? ;)

      Oh pfft I forgot, too, I was just looking at the transcript to check something and saw it and I was like "oh, right". Not one of my favourite episodes, that one. Bubbler was kinda lame. Marinette does have a sense of duty, but Adrien's is just stronger. He doesn't worry about keeping his cover as much as she does, he just drops everything and ducks out immediately. Like take "Befana"- if Marinette weren't the target, she'd likely still hang around to distract Befana as a civilian before ducking out. Adrien immediately left. Adrien also keeps his excuses short, where Marinette stumbles over her lies because she doesn't like to lie, but as Ladybug, she has to tell a lot of them. And like we talked about once before, I think Tikki stresses her out about keeping her identity secret.

      She doesn't have to beat him physically, she just has to have power over him. Especially if Hawk Moth knows he's not a physical fighter. It's empty power. She just needs to give him a reason to fear her. That power doesn't need to be physical. Someone with eyes as cold as hers doesn't need physical strength to overpower someone, she just needs leverage. Like, say, if she threatened Adrien or Mrs Agreste, the latter of whom whose whereabouts she might know.

      My point about Kagami being more important is that she is more relevant because she's more tied to the plot than Marinette is, and her mom being Le Paon will get brought up. It'll make her a focus point. It'll make the story more about Adrien and Kagami than about Marinette/Ladybug and Adrien/Cat Noir. Like, let's say that Le Paon is Rose's mom. Rose will suddenly get more relevant to the story and show up a lot more. She'll be shown a lot because we'll need to see more of her mom so they can hint at her being Le Paon. We'll see a lot more of Rose so we build more of an attachment to her so it matters when she finally learns her mother has been terrorising Paris and hurting her friends. We'll see her more as she gets mixed up in the Miraculous business and eventually discovers her mother is Le Paon. She is more intricately tied to the plot than Marinette is at that point, all without being a superhero or having a Miraculous. So she can't even fight back against her mother unless she's given a Miraculous and there's already sooooo many people with them. All of that applies to Kagami, who is as of now, as important as Rose is. This is why I prefer the idea she's Chloe's mom- Chloe is already mixed up in the story, she's a secondary character not supporting like Rose and Kagami, and she gets a Miraculous. Chloe has also already been long set-up as a character, and the dynamic would work well as we watch Chloe grow and adapt into being a hero, while her mother refuses to change and becomes a villain. We also know she already has mommy issues, and that would play into what I just mentioned.

      We also don't know to what extent Kagami'll be Adrien's "love interest". It says she attracts him, but not to what extent. I know you want him to forget about Ladybug/Marinette and end up with Kagami, but I doubt that will happen outside fanfic. She might attract him on some level, especially if she's more responsive to him than Ladybug is, but she'll never take Ladybug's place. The same goes for Luka and Marinette. I don't think she'll forget about her feelings for Adrien. Luka and Kagami, if they even become love interests as opposed to just "interests", will just be distractions there to complicate the love square into a love hexagon. And that's also if Luka and Kagami reciprocate the interest and aren't the LGBT+ people everyone keeps hoping they are. Kagami does, for her part, seem more interested in befriending Marinette than she does in Adrien, so there's some vagueness there that she might be a lesbian or at least into girls to some extent, but it's really vague.

      I also didn't mean related by blood, I meant someone important to her, like an adult friend of hers (like how she's friends with Nadja. But I don't think she's going to be Le Paon, she's just an example). I agree it's too much if, say, Gina is Le Paon. I'd actually prefer Marinette be related to a past Ladybug and have that become important so she has some purpose in the story that way than to have someone close to her be Le Paon. You said you want her to actually be more involved with the plot, too, but you keep wanting Kagami to take on any role that could make Marinette more relevant.

      Kagami doesn't need to be tied to the plot to matter, I don't think. If I had to guess, I would say Le Paon is either Mrs Agreste or Audrey, because their children are already caught up in the story. Although, she could, I suppose, be Nathalie (as she's still tied to Adrien) or Gina if the story wants to go that way (unlikely to an impressive degree, I think), be part of Alya's rather large (for the show) family, or be Nino's as-yet-unseen mother or aunt, depending on how Noel/Chris is related to him. I think it's more impactful and less of a hassle if she's related to one of the Miraculous holders already. It's also easier to keep her identity more of a mystery if a secondary character isn't suddenly getting quite a lot of attention. Cuz if she's Kagami's mom, she'll be getting more attention than Luka and it'll probably result in more of that "Marientte's got a crush on Adrien" excuses for Kagami to appear, because Marinette's always, as far was we can see factually for now, going to be the focus. They might change it up, but as they have not yet, assume that she is going to be the focus.

      Speaking of Chris/Noel, I'm pretty sure he's going to be in the episode that airs for Christmas this year. Chris(tmas) and Noel? C'mon. C'mon. Speaking of Alya, there is a part of me that thinks her mom will be Captain Hardrock. She doesn't have to be akumatised into a food villain just because she's a chef. Also, the Hard Rock Cafe is, well, a restaurant (themed around the 70's and 80's eras of music, I believe). It's probably not her, but it would be interesting, no? Whoever it is rides around in a potato ship that 

      Potato? That's such a dumb typo I'm keeping it

      PIRATE ship that is covered in things that look like instruments from an orchestra. Like I can make out inspiration from a clarinet (the cannon), something from the violin/viola/cello/stand up bass family (the deck), speakers obviously (in the sail), and probably other things but not that I can see. It's the clarinet that sticks out as bizarre to me, because the deck could maybe be taken from a guitar, but the cannon's body and bell are definitely that of a clarinet. The back end of it could be a mouthpiece or something out of the percussion section.

      Peacock Tool Page
      But it's still purple and the wings are similar in colour to Nooroo's colouring. What I mean is that the supposed Peacock Miraculous is mint green, while Duusu is blue and pink. The Turtle Miraculous is green and so is Wayzz, albeit a different shade. The Moth Miraculous is purple, and so is Nooroo, albeit a different shade. Trixx's Miraculous looks exactly like her tail, being orange and white. Pollen's Miraculous is yellow/gold and black like she is and its wings are light yellow (so still yellow). Plagg's Miraculous is black with green like his eyes (just different shades), while Tikki's Miraculous is red and black like she is, just different shades. Duusu's Miraculous isn't even close to anything on her. The Peacock is also the only one of the five outer ones that is not the same colour as its place in the Miraculous chest- the Fox is orange, the Bee is yellow, the Turtle is green, and the Moth is purple. But the Peacock's spot is blue and its Miraculous is green. The Black Cat and Ladybug's spots are actually the same colours as their inactive Miraculous, though the Ladybug's spot for some reason has red on it rather than a different shade of black or giving the Black Cat green. I don't mean the exact shade appears- Tikki is a different shade of red from the earrings and Plagg appears to be a purple-shaded kind of black, but they are from the same colour family as what's on their Miraculouses. Duusu isn't. Her Miraculous does have a blue bit on it, but green is not part of the blue or pink colour families, nor is the blue the main colour of the Miraculous. There's also that photo there, from "The Collector". On every other page of the Miraculous book, that squared off spot is for the Miraculous, but that doesn't look a thing like the green brooch aside from being peacock-shaped.

      He's somehow even more adorable when standing than when floating about.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      It would be cool, but then don't you think Kagami would start to overtake the story a little, if her mom is a supervillain? She's just an ordinary civilian, classmate, and friend after all. It's kind of the same as saying you want Le Paon to be Kim's mom or Rose's mom or Ivan's mom. Take your personal preference for Kagami out for a mo', and think about how that would make her suddenly more important than Marinette, who is Ladybug, is. Especially if Kagami is also Tentomushi's descendant. She might as well just replace Marinette at that point, but the show wouldn't do that. It would work i think if Marinette thinks she's inferoir to Kagami because Kagami is descended from a past Ladybug, I suppose, but I don't think it makes sense for Kagami's mom to be Le Paon without making her way more important than Marinette is.

      I personally hope Le Paon is Chloe's mom, but I'm not sure if that's possible considering Chloe's mom hypothetically gets akumatised. Before I speculated she might be Miss Bustier, back when we didn't have a good, clear image of her. Buuut A) everyone made fun of me and B) she seems to get akumatised, too. Also they don't look alike, but that doesn't matter considering how different Hawk Moth is from Gabriel. Ideally Le Paon would be someone close to Marinette, to give Marinette an actual link to the story, but I'm fair certain that's not possible.

      Yes it would make Kagami more important if she were related to Le Paon, that risk is present for any character. Kagami and Luka are characters that have the potential to be love interests, which makes them already slightly more important than the rest of the side cast. I can see either of them being related to Le Paon. Also I have to question why Le Paon cannot be someone who gets akumatized. She could lie, I also doubt she wears her miraculous 24/7. It could even occur before she becomes Le Paon.

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    • Yugioh z wrote:

      Yes it would make Kagami more important if she were related to Le Paon, that risk is present for any character. Kagami and Luka are characters that have the potential to be love interests, which makes them already slightly more important than the rest of the side cast. I can see either of them being related to Le Paon. Also I have to question why Le Paon cannot be someone who gets akumatized. She could lie, I also doubt she wears her miraculous 24/7. It could even occur before she becomes Le Paon.

      By "more important" I mean "more important than the actual protagonist", which is wrong to me. Marinette is already struggling to be relevant, she doesn't need someone to outshine her on every level. Kagami's not already established as important nor was she established as going to be so in future episodes in her own episode. Keep in mind also that we were told Lila would be important this season but she has not even been mentioned. Not even in "The Collector", which takes place on the same day as her arrival. 'Tis wholly possible that description of Lila is for an episode, not the season, and also that Luka and Kagami being "distractions" is likewise limited to only an episode or two. Kagami is not a Miraculous holder. Kagami is not important, especially if she's Adrien's "love interest", when Adrien already doesn't see much screen time. In order to justify her mother being Le Paon, they need to make you care more about Kagami. And I don't mean "oh, she's cool!" or "she's much better than Marinette!", I mean they need to have you get to know her really well, which takes screen time and they'd have to show her home life. This would take up time from other characters, rather than using someone whose home lives we already have clues about (Chloe and Alya) or long established characters with families we know little about (such as Nino). It would also mean that Marinette's excuses to be with Adrien will keep appearing so that they can show Kagami without drawing attention to the fact that we're learning about her. I'm speaking as a writer: as of right now, I don't think making Kagami's mom Le Paon is a good move because Kagami is completely unrelated to the Miraculouses. It doesn't make sense from a storytelling perspective. I can't help but feel it'd be as silly a move as it would have been to make Hawk Moth Gabriel's secret twin brother that was never mentioned.

      How is Hawk Moth supposed to be afraid of someone he can akumatise and control? I would imagine she is someone who is calm and collected at all times, so Hawk Moth can't control her or read her. He can't have leverage over her, otherwise he has no reason to fear her and takes a lot to scare Hawk Moth/Gabriel.

      But alas, I am wholly alone on both concepts, I fear. I cannot tell if it's just an inability to voice my thought process or if I'm merely an idiot.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      By "more important" I mean "more important than the actual protagonist", which is wrong to me. Marinette is already struggling to be relevant, she doesn't need someone to outshine her on every level. Kagami's not already established as important nor was she established as going to be so in future episodes in her own episode. Keep in mind also that we were told Lila would be important this season but she has not even been mentioned. Not even in "The Collector", which takes place on the same day as her arrival. 'Tis wholly possible that description of Lila is for an episode, not the season, and also that Luka and Kagami being "distractions" is likewise limited to only an episode or two. Kagami is not a Miraculous holder. Kagami is not important, especially if she's Adrien's "love interest", when Adrien already doesn't see much screen time. In order to justify her mother being Le Paon, they need to make you care more about Kagami. And I don't mean "oh, she's cool!" or "she's much better than Marinette!", I mean they need to have you get to know her really well, which takes screen time and they'd have to show her home life. This would take up time from other characters, rather than using someone whose home lives we already have clues about (Chloe and Alya) or long established characters with families we know little about (such as Nino). It would also mean that Marinette's excuses to be with Adrien will keep appearing so that they can show Kagami without drawing attention to the fact that we're learning about her. I'm speaking as a writer: as of right now, I don't think making Kagami's mom Le Paon is a good move because Kagami is completely unrelated to the Miraculouses. It doesn't make sense from a storytelling perspective. I can't help but feel it'd be as silly a move as it would have been to make Hawk Moth Gabriel's secret twin brother that was never mentioned.

      How is Hawk Moth supposed to be afraid of someone he can akumatise and control? I would imagine she is someone who is calm and collected at all times, so Hawk Moth can't control her or read her. He can't have leverage over her, otherwise he has no reason to fear her and takes a lot to scare Hawk Moth/Gabriel.

      But alas, I am wholly alone on both concepts, I fear. I cannot tell if it's just an inability to voice my thought process or if I'm merely an idiot.

      Well, we mostly don't want a member of Marinette's family to be Le Paon just because it would make it too heavy that both protagonists are related to both villains, hence why we go for other options, like I said before. Mostly because the writers keeps writing Marinette to be related to the plot no matter what happens anyway to have the focus on her, so adding a super villain close to her already might make her the focus even more that she would take it all away from the other characters like Adrien and all the others, who don't get it so much. It's okay too, because even if she's the protagonist, she does interact with people on a daily basis that influence and make her grow, and it seems nice to learn about these characters so we can understand them better.

      Lila just got a passing mention in the collector, Marinette said "that girl", so Lila.

      Hawk Moth was afraid of Robostus, the robot almost killed him with his own weapons, so Le Paon could scare him even more as a villain, also the reason why he wouldn't akumatized her a second time, because he would sign his death.

      No we get what you're saying. You're not an idiot at all. But like you noticed, we cling to our ideas just as much as you cling to yours, so all in all, while we do agree with some of them, we still prefer to think what we like. Not saying you're wrong or anything, but until the shows give us more answers we will have different ideas on some things and others where we will agree. Happens in every fandom. Don't take it hard. Instead let's talk about how frustrating it is to wait 2 weeks before the new episodes arrives.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Well, we mostly don't want a member of Marinette's family to be Le Paon just because it would make it too heavy that both protagonists are related to both villains, hence why we go for other options, like I said before. Mostly because the writers keeps writing Marinette to be related to the plot no matter what happens anyway to have the focus on her, so adding a super villain close to her already might make her the focus even more that she would take it all away from the other characters like Adrien and all the others, who don't get it so much. It's okay too, because even if she's the protagonist, she does interact with people on a daily basis that influence and make her grow, and it seems nice to learn about these characters so we can understand them better.

      Lila just got a passing mention in the collector, Marinette said "that girl", so Lila.

      Hawk Moth was afraid of Robostus, the robot almost killed him with his own weapons, so Le Paon could scare him even more as a villain, also the reason why he wouldn't akumatized her a second time, because he would sign his death.

      No we get what you're saying. You're not an idiot at all. But like you noticed, we cling to our ideas just as much as you cling to yours, so all in all, while we do agree with some of them, we still prefer to think what we like. Not saying you're wrong or anything, but until the shows give us more answers we will have different ideas on some things and others where we will agree. Happens in every fandom. Don't take it hard. Instead let's talk about how frustrating it is to wait 2 weeks before the new episodes arrives.

      But I keep saying I don't really want it to be someone related to Marinette, either! I've said it like, three times that I don't want it to be someone from her family. I'd much rather her be Chloe's mom and Marinette be related to a past Ladybug. If it has to be someone close to Marinette, I want it to be an adult friend of hers, like how she's friends with Nadja, not her family. I do not want her to be someone from Marinette's family. I do not want Le Paon to be someone from Marinette's family. I do not think Le Paon should be someone from Marinette's family. I don't think, with her being the lead character, having Le Paon be an adult friend of hers (or, hypothetically speaking though I do not think this should happen, someone in her family) would actually take the focus away from anyone else, it would just change what Marinette does in the story and actually make her, well, relevant. It would stop making all of her appearances into excuses. That thing you hate them doing with her. She'd have an actual role to play then, so they'd stop making up excuses to put her in. That's the only reason I propose Le Paon be someone close to Marinette, but not family, just close to her. But I think if they made her descended from previous Ladybugs, and made that important somehow, the same job could be done. But I do not think Le Paon should be someone in Marinette's family.

      Don't remember that... but still, Lila hasn't really been brought up nor shown at all. You would think she'd be there when Adrien returns to school or in the cooking lesson from "Despair Bear", but she's not. She might as well not exist.

      I don't think Hawk Moth needs to be afraid of someone hurting him. He can always train or akumatise himself and cheat to beat that person. I would guess Riposte would be able to beat her mother in fencing because she has superhuman skill level as Riposte. Hawk Moth can also target her with his akumas if she is physically thratening him. So he has leverage against her, even if it's just percieved by him. He could let her thing he's afraid of her, but really, he isn't because in his mind he has leverage over her. But, if she knows something he doesn't, and is witholding that knowledge and using it to make him obey her... he can't risk attacking her. Her knowledge would be more of a threat to him than her being physically more powerful than him. Le Paon will be most effective if she has knowledge Hawk Moth/Gabriel doesn't. In order to have that kind of leverage, she must have learnt his identity, which is already a problem with him. But then she also proves she knows exactly where his wife is but she won't tell him unless he does something for her. She could also threaten Adrien, but I don't think she needs to as long as Le Paon is using his wife against him. Does that make sense?

      Like yeah, physical harm onto oneself is effective, but not to everyone. I think Hawk Moth might have been more afraid for losing control than of his lair turning against him. Cuz the guy is pretty calmish to my memory while cutting down bombs.

      u_u is it that long? I guess that's niceish, I mean, that's a little less than how long I have to wait before I can watch the first 13 episodes to my heart's content on Netflix.

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    • If you look at pictures of Le Paon and Nathalie side by side, their features do look quite similar. Could be a possibilty that they are one in the same. I really hope not, though, because Adrien has enough trauma with his mother disappearing and his father being Hawk Moth (not that he really knows yet, as he dismissed that in The Collector). Which brings me on to another theory: could Mrs. Agreste be Le Paon? I mean, there's a pretty good chance she is. She's been missing for at least a year, quite possibly planning something sinister. But I also hope it's not her, as that would break Adrien's heart into pieces. I mean, I sure would be traumatized if both of my parents were secretly extremely powerful supervillains. I don't think he'd be as affected if Nathalie was the new villain, but still upset that someone very close to him was corrupted by evil.

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    • TheNorthernLightss wrote:
      If you look at pictures of Le Paon and Nathalie side by side, their features do look quite similar. Could be a possibilty that they are one in the same. I really hope not, though, because Adrien has enough trauma with his mother disappearing and his father being Hawk Moth (not that he really knows yet, as he dismissed that in The Collector). Which brings me on to another theory: could Mrs. Agreste be Le Paon? I mean, there's a pretty good chance she is. She's been missing for at least a year, quite possibly planning something sinister. But I also hope it's not her, as that would break Adrien's heart into pieces. I mean, I sure would be traumatized if both of my parents were secretly extremely powerful supervillains. I don't think he'd be as affected if Nathalie was the new villain, but still upset that someone very close to him was corrupted by evil.

      Considering how Le Paon turns blue when transformed and how Hawk Moth's head changes shape, I don't know if comparing Le Paon's features to other people really works, but, for argument's sake: Le Paon's eye shape is very different from Nathalie's but similar to Mrs Agreste's, and her head is a quite different shape from Madame Agreste's, but similar to Nathalie's. Mrs Agreste also has a very distinctive nose that Le Paon does not have. Le Paon's nose is also different from Nathalie's, which is more upturned. Le Paon's mouth is also different from both of them. Mrs Agreste's lips are thinner while Nathalie's mouth is wider.

      So while one of them could be Le Paon, they'd have to undergo the same kind of facial changes Hawk Moth does along with other feature changes, but they don't have a mask like he does. Either that, or Le Paon is someone we have yet to see.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      But I keep saying I don't really want it to be someone related to Marinette, either! I've said it like, three times that I don't want it to be someone from her family. I'd much rather her be Chloe's mom and Marinette be related to a past Ladybug. If it has to be someone close to Marinette, I want it to be an adult friend of hers, like how she's friends with Nadja, not her family. I do not want her to be someone from Marinette's family. I do not want Le Paon to be someone from Marinette's family. I do not think Le Paon should be someone from Marinette's family. I don't think, with her being the lead character, having Le Paon be an adult friend of hers (or, hypothetically speaking though I do not think this should happen, someone in her family) would actually take the focus away from anyone else, it would just change what Marinette does in the story and actually make her, well, relevant. It would stop making all of her appearances into excuses. That thing you hate them doing with her. She'd have an actual role to play then, so they'd stop making up excuses to put her in. That's the only reason I propose Le Paon be someone close to Marinette, but not family, just close to her. But I think if they made her descended from previous Ladybugs, and made that important somehow, the same job could be done. But I do not think Le Paon should be someone in Marinette's family.

      Don't remember that... but still, Lila hasn't really been brought up nor shown at all. You would think she'd be there when Adrien returns to school or in the cooking lesson from "Despair Bear", but she's not. She might as well not exist.

      I don't think Hawk Moth needs to be afraid of someone hurting him. He can always train or akumatise himself and cheat to beat that person. I would guess Riposte would be able to beat her mother in fencing because she has superhuman skill level as Riposte. Hawk Moth can also target her with his akumas if she is physically thratening him. So he has leverage against her, even if it's just percieved by him. He could let her thing he's afraid of her, but really, he isn't because in his mind he has leverage over her. But, if she knows something he doesn't, and is witholding that knowledge and using it to make him obey her... he can't risk attacking her. Her knowledge would be more of a threat to him than her being physically more powerful than him. Le Paon will be most effective if she has knowledge Hawk Moth/Gabriel doesn't. In order to have that kind of leverage, she must have learnt his identity, which is already a problem with him. But then she also proves she knows exactly where his wife is but she won't tell him unless he does something for her. She could also threaten Adrien, but I don't think she needs to as long as Le Paon is using his wife against him. Does that make sense?

      Like yeah, physical harm onto oneself is effective, but not to everyone. I think Hawk Moth might have been more afraid for losing control than of his lair turning against him. Cuz the guy is pretty calmish to my memory while cutting down bombs.

      u_u is it that long? I guess that's niceish, I mean, that's a little less than how long I have to wait before I can watch the first 13 episodes to my heart's content on Netflix.

      Alright then. Let's cross our fingers then. Oh! I just thought how she would be more used, they promised they would make her and Adrien a couple in the future. There's the link now. Mean's she's the girlfriend of the super villain's son, now she's tied. Cause I don't see her being a descendant of a past Ladybug either.

      Oh well, we'll see Lila eventually. I hope soon.

      I don't think she has to know about his wife, just knowing about his son would be enough. Gabriel does lose it when he thinks his son is in danger, and actually seems to not want him to be hurt, since he's pratically the last link to his wife apart from the book. I don't think he could bear losing his son after his wife. Even if it doesn't look like it as Hawk Moth, but Riposte did make a point about him not wanting his akumas fighting his son in a fight. Yes, it makes sense. But I think she would be better with threatening Adrien, because unlike his wife, Gabriel is aware of where his son his and that's he's well and alive, instead of being played off on a ruse, she could just go for the obvious and threaten Adrien, seems more effective.

      Really? When do the episodes gets on Netflix?

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Alright then. Let's cross our fingers then. Oh! I just thought how she would be more used, they promised they would make her and Adrien a couple in the future. There's the link now. Mean's she's the girlfriend of the super villain's son, now she's tied. Cause I don't see her being a descendant of a past Ladybug either.

      Oh well, we'll see Lila eventually. I hope soon.

      I don't think she has to know about his wife, just knowing about his son would be enough. Gabriel does lose it when he thinks his son is in danger, and actually seems to not want him to be hurt, since he's pratically the last link to his wife apart from the book. I don't think he could bear losing his son after his wife. Even if it doesn't look like it as Hawk Moth, but Riposte did make a point about him not wanting his akumas fighting his son in a fight. Yes, it makes sense. But I think she would be better with threatening Adrien, because unlike his wife, Gabriel is aware of where his son his and that's he's well and alive, instead of being played off on a ruse, she could just go for the obvious and threaten Adrien, seems more effective.

      Really? When do the episodes gets on Netflix?

      He says they'll be "seen" as a real couple. That may not mean they actually do get together, just people think they are. Keep in mind that they both disappear a lot, often at the same time, and often return around the same time. Alya and Nino both talk about how they disappear on them a lot. Like this exchange from "Lady Wifi":

      Alya: Ughh. I hate when she goes AWOL. She's not calling me back! Where is that girl?! Nino: Seriously. My man Adrien's the exact same way. But I guess you gotta be sly when Mr. Control Freak is your daddy-o.

      Plus, in "Antibug", they both dismiss themselves to the bathroom at the same time to go deal with Vanisher. They're usually both gone at the same time (sometimes Marinette is gone when Adrien isn't, or Adrien doesn't return to class in "Princess Fragrance" like she did). People should start to suspect there's something going on, and it's kind of convenient for them even though they don't know it.

      I'll just resign myself to her reapparance but hope it's only to one episode. I've met people like Lila, and she gives me bad flashbacks to being bullied in school by a girl who refused to keep her hands to herself. But not in a hitting way except "hitting on" way.

      No, it has to be the wife, too- the same issue with Adrien applies as to Gabriel protecting himself from her. He can just eliminate her if she threatens Adrien. She has to know something he doesn't, she has to have something he needs or wants. He has to have some reason for not opting to get rid of her. Knowledge of where his wife is something he would find of value.

      Sometime in December. Rumour has it it's 1 December, but I thought Netflix only updated its library on Thursdays? If that's true, it's likely 7 December.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:

      He says they'll be "seen" as a real couple. That may not mean they actually do get together, just people think they are. Keep in mind that they both disappear a lot, often at the same time, and often return around the same time. Alya and Nino both talk about how they disappear on them a lot. Like this exchange from "Lady Wifi":

      Alya: Ughh. I hate when she goes AWOL. She's not calling me back! Where is that girl?! Nino: Seriously. My man Adrien's the exact same way. But I guess you gotta be sly when Mr. Control Freak is your daddy-o.

      Plus, there's an episode, I forget which, where they both dismiss themselves to the bathroom at the same time to go deal with an akuma. They're usually both gone at the same time (sometimes Marinette is gone when Adrien isn't, or Adrien doesn't return to class in "Princess Fragrance" like she did). People should start to suspect there's something going on, and it's kind of convenient for them even though they don't know it.

      I'll just resign myself to her reapparance but hope it's only to one episode. I've met people like Lila, and she gives me bad flashbacks to being bullied in school by a girl who refused to keep her hands to herself. But not in a hitting way except "hitting on" way.

      No, it has to be the wife, too- the same issue with Adrien applies as to Gabriel protecting himself from her. He can just eliminate her if she threatens Adrien. She has to know something he doesn't, she has to have something he needs or wants. He has to have some reason for not opting to get rid of her. Knowledge of where his wife is something he would find of value.

      Sometime in December. Rumour has it it's 1 December, but I thought Netflix only updated its library on Thursdays? If that's true, it's likely 7 December.

      Ok, then. But Adrien went to the bathroom first, Marinette asked after.

      Yeah, they are people like that, even in fiction. 

      If you think that it's better with his wife than with Adrien, okay. If she is alive, that is, or if she has actual informations who aren't fake, photoshoped or tampered in any way, maybe. Wish Le Paon's good luck with that. And if she was close to Adrien as an adult, then she couldn't just disappear out of the blue without raising suspicions, since his wife went missing not even 2 years before, so getting a second woman being missing who is close to the Agreste in a short time span like that would be suspicious, and I doubt Gabriel would be afraid of his wife if she was Le Paon.

      Lucky you.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:

      Ok, then. But Adrien went to the bathroom first, Marinette asked after.

      Yeah, they are people like that, even in fiction. 

      If you think that it's better with his wife than with Adrien, okay. If she is alive, that is, or if she has actual informations who aren't fake, photoshoped or tampered in any way, maybe. Wish Le Paon's good luck with that. And if she was close to Adrien as an adult, then she couldn't just disappear out of the blue without raising suspicions, since his wife went missing not even 2 years before, so getting a second woman being missing who is close to the Agreste in a short time span like that would be suspicious, and I doubt Gabriel would be afraid of his wife if she was Le Paon.

      Lucky you.

      That exchange goes immediately, like, Adrien is either barely out the door or he hasn't even quite made it out when she wants to go. It's more or less the same time.

      Yes. But it makes me not want to see Lila too much.

      I must not be explaining myself well... Here is how I am thinking: Le Paon is not Mrs Agreste. She may or may not be personal with the family. She is someone who knows Mrs Agreste's whereabouts. She, I think, absolutely must know where Mrs Agreste is to have any power over Hawk Moth. While threatening Adrien will indeed anger him, Hawk Moth can try and get rid of her. In order for her to be his boss, and to fear her, he has to feel like he can't challenge her. So she has to have that knowledge, and not share it, so he won't try and get rid of her for threatening him and/or his son. She has to put Hawk Moth in a situation where he does not have power over her, or at least power that he can use. Otherwise he won't truly be afraid of her for very long. Gabriel says, and I quote, "No one tells me what to do. Not even a superhero". So power isn't enough. Le Paon has to have something Gabriel wants and she has to have a strong leverage to both make him fear her, make him take orders from her, and make him unable to retaliate. Plus, if he knows his son is Cat Noir, he knows Le Paon's threats against Adrien won't do much because Adrien can defend himself. Le Paon could even be the reason Adrien's mother is even missing in the first place. We don't know why she disappeared.

      Or even if that's the truth, and not what Gabriel and Nathalie have been saying.

      To me, it makes little sense for Gabriel to only fear a physical confrontation with Le Paon. If she's a threat to him, but he loses nothing by trying to eliminate her, he has no reason to not have her attacked by an akuma or something. So she has to have something he wants very badly, and I don't think it's her Miraculous. He isn't interested in the others. If it's help with getting the Ladybug and Black Cat ones, she won't be able to take over as his "boss". So to me, it makes sense that she has some knowledge that he desires deeply. Right now, the most likely thing is that Le Paon must know where his wife is, and she must be in a position where his wife and possibly Adrien can be threatened in order for him to be afraid of her. Her knowledge of Mrs Agreste is the important thing here, not the threat- it's something Gabriel does not have but wants very much. That allows her to take a position of power and make it so he's unable to rebel very easily.

      I suppose it could be that Kagami's mom has both physical power over him and the knowledge of Mrs Agreste, but she doesn't need to physically overpower him for him to be obedient if she's witholding the information about his wife. But.... how would she make the connection between Mrs Agreste and Gabriel unless she already knew them beforehand? Marinette, Gabriel's biggest fan, is able to vaguely recognise his son but not his wife, so I would imagine she was not in the spotlight much. Nor was the story about Gabriel's wife news, or she would remember seeing her face before. But she gives no indication of it when she stops to look at Adrien's desktop. So she wouldn't be able to get the informtion through media I don't think. Consider also they moved to France from Japan, so it's even less likely she knows anything about Gabriel and his wife.

      Because's Adrien and Chloe were childhood friends, and because Adrien was not really allowed to go out before he goes to school, and how Gabriel is unfamiliar with Chloe ("Mr Pigeon"), this means Adrien's mom is probably how he knows Chloe and took him with her when she went out. So it was either by Andre or Audrey's friendship with Mrs Agreste they met. Because they probably played together at the hotel, considering Gabriel's house is his studio and he is, again, wholly unfamiliar with Chloe and she does not act like she's met him before (no "remember me?"), this might mean that Audrey has met Mrs. Agreste even if Mrs Agreste's friendship was with Andre. Audrey also already has connections with one of the Miraculous bearers and possible two-time akuma victim, her daughter, Chloe, a secondary character in the story.

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    • Having watched the episode again to work on the transcript, I gotta say- Kagami is even more.... let's go with "unlikable" than I thought? Like at the end of the episode, she's fine, but at the start of it, her voice is very rough and angry and it gets that way again as Riposte (of course). I think that's why I don't like her as much as everyone else does. I really dislike her attitude until Marinette says Adrien was the victor, which makes up most of Kagami's screentime outside being Riposte.

      Also the fact that Adrien pronounces "Riposte" at the start of the episode as "Ripose" (with no "T" sound) and after he and Marinette fence the word is said "Riposte" with the "T" sound, is quite irksome.

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    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Having watched the episode again to work on the transcript, I gotta say- Kagami is even more.... let's go with "unlikable" than I thought? Like at the end of the episode, she's fine, but at the start of it, her voice is very rough and angry and it gets that way again as Riposte (of course). I think that's why I don't like her as much as everyone else does. I really dislike her attitude until Marinette says Adrien was the victor, which makes up most of Kagami's screentime outside being Riposte.

      Also the fact that Adrien pronounces "Riposte" at the start of the episode as "Ripose" (with no "T" sound) and after he and Marinette fence the word is said "Riposte" with the "T" sound, is quite irksome.

      Really? Because of her attitude when she showed up late to the class? I suppose it was rude, but it was cool that she impressed D'Argentcourt enough to have him let her have a chance to enter. I suppose she's aggressive when she's fencing, she even taunted Adrien during their match,  and reserved and closed off outside of it. She was pretty aggressive the entire time she was Riposte, not dropping the anger once. I suppose since her family are olympic champions, they are quite competetive when they fence, and are more reserved offside of it. I think most