FANDOM


  • After watching "The Collector", I'm not a fan of this one, but there are three specific points to debate here- Nathalie, Mrs Agreste, and Audrey Bourgeois (whose theory page is here). Don't derail by talking about why she could be Mrs Agreste here, this is points for why or why not Le Paon is Nathalie. Keep it about Nathalie.

    Remember to tag your spoilers, please.


    So, Nathalie. We know she works for Hawk Moth, and she knowingly works for him. She knows Gabriel is Hawk Moth. She knows about the Miraculouses. It is thus possible to say that she desires the power herself and steals the Miraculous from the safe (or something, assuming the one in there isn't a fake) and becomes Le Paon. If it is a fake, she could have swapped them ages ago.

    Now, my theory is that Nathalie and Mr Agreste actually know full well where Mrs Agreste is. Her "disapperance" is a lie they tell to Adrien to keep him out of the Miraculous business. Mrs Agreste is somewhere else, researching into the Miraculouses, and Gabriel took back the Moth and Peacock Miraculouses and the Book to protect them. Nathalie is in on it, too, and she knows a bit about the Miraculouses because of it.. At some point she stole the Peacock Miraculous and replaced it with a fake- a possible chance would have been in "Simon Says" when she's alone in the mansion, I suppose, after Gabriel was taken away and the Gorilla was one of Simon Says's minions. I think "Simon Says" happens late in Season 1 chronologically, but there's also a chance she has not yet stolen the Miraculous nor had the idea to steal it yet.

    Personality-wise, Nathalie could be hard to akumatise because she's emotionless, though it's very possible she is the red and black akuma. For the sake of the theory, she lets herself be akumatised for the same reason as Gabriel did. Nathalie is so emotionless she might actually do well for being Le Paon.

    As to a motive, she could be tired of taking Gabriel's orders, she could just want the power for herself, or she could have an actual goal, possibly related to Mrs Agreste or the other Miraculouses. We know so little about her, it could be anything.

    I'm not sure how much I like this theory- I think the fact that she's in on the Hawk Moth thing automatically disqualifies her because she'd be his primary suspect since she has access to it and I don't think akumatising her would change that unless she can somehow make Le Paon appear to him anyway. The fact that she'd be his primary suspect for the theft is followed by the fact that she appears to get akumatised. I don't think Le Paon will be akumatised. They can't show that Hawk Moth can have control over her for their power dynamic to work. I also think being emotionless would backfire on Nathalie, because showing emotion at all would get the akuma to go after her. I also think that her getting akumatised on purpose carries a totally different weight to it than Gabriel doing it. Her doing it proves nothing other than Hawk Moth can control her.
      Loading editor
    • Argh.

      Where did you watch The Collector. I can't find any links that aren't blocked for me to watch. Once I have I will be able to give you some answers.

        Loading editor
    • 191744C
      191744C removed this reply because:
      Wrong link
      11:56, October 27, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • 191744C wrote:
      Light, Dark And Harmony Risen To Unison wrote:
      Argh.

      Where did you watch The Collector. I can't find any links that aren't blocked for me to watch. Once I have I will be able to give you some answers.

      Here's the link:

      (Link deleted)

      No illegal links please.

        Loading editor
    • Thearomalady wrote:
      191744C wrote:
      Light, Dark And Harmony Risen To Unison wrote:
      Argh.

      Where did you watch The Collector. I can't find any links that aren't blocked for me to watch. Once I have I will be able to give you some answers.

      Here's the link:

      (Link deleted)

      No illegal links please.

      Oh, sorry. Just, what does it mean for a link to be illegal? I found it on Youtube.

        Loading editor
    • 191744C wrote:

      Oh, sorry. Just, what does it mean for a link to be illegal? I found it on Youtube.

      Illegal means it's not from an official source that supports Miraculous Ladybug. It was uploaded illegally, without consent or knowledge of ZAG. While no one on this wiki can stop you from watching it where you like, we don't want links going out to sources that aren't official from this wiki. Just the rules. I'm sure one of the admins can explain it better, but I hope that helps. So we need you to delete your comment with the link, please, as I can't do it myself. An admin will do it otherwise.

        Loading editor
    • Alright, I've deleted it. Can you put a legal link then? And how do you tag spoilers?

        Loading editor
    • Thearomalady wrote:
      191744C wrote:

      Oh, sorry. Just, what does it mean for a link to be illegal? I found it on Youtube.

      Illegal means it's not from an official source that supports Miraculous Ladybug. It was uploaded illegally, without consent or knowledge of ZAG. While no one on this wiki can stop you from watching it where you like, we don't want links going out to sources that aren't official from this wiki. Just the rules. I'm sure one of the admins can explain it better, but I hope that helps. So we need you to delete your comment with the link, please, as I can't do it myself. An admin will do it otherwise.

      Just to make it easier for you to understand because I thin Thermoladys done a good job at it but needs to simplify it. So if you watch Miraculous Ladybug and you see the TFOU sign in the top right hand side. You have to go ( or call in this case) and ask TFOU if you can record it.

      Some people on Youtube stream and upload or record things Illegally which means they don't ask for consent which is why you need to be 14 or over to have a Youtube account so that you don't stream, upload or record things illegally.

        Loading editor
    • Light, Dark And Harmony Risen To Unison wrote:
      Thearomalady wrote:
      191744C wrote:

      Oh, sorry. Just, what does it mean for a link to be illegal? I found it on Youtube.

      Illegal means it's not from an official source that supports Miraculous Ladybug. It was uploaded illegally, without consent or knowledge of ZAG. While no one on this wiki can stop you from watching it where you like, we don't want links going out to sources that aren't official from this wiki. Just the rules. I'm sure one of the admins can explain it better, but I hope that helps. So we need you to delete your comment with the link, please, as I can't do it myself. An admin will do it otherwise.
      Just to make it easier for you to understand because I thin Thermoladys done a good job at it but needs to simplify it. So if you watch Miraculous Ladybug and you see the TFOU sign in the top right hand side. You have to go ( or call in this case) and ask TFOU if you can record it.

      Some people on Youtube stream and upload or record things Illegally which means they don't ask for consent which is why you need to be 14 or over to have a Youtube account so that you don't stream, upload or record things illegally.

      When I said thin I meant to say think.

      Sorry, I write to fast.

        Loading editor
    • Oh, OK. Thanks!

        Loading editor
    • 191744C wrote: Alright, I've deleted it. Can you put a legal link then? And how do you tag spoilers?

      I don’t have one, I’m afraid. Tagging spoilers is pretty easy. I’ll talk to one of the admins about making a general post about it for everyone to see. Until then, Tansyflower left the note on my Wall about it

        Loading editor
    • 191744C wrote:
      Oh, OK. Thanks!

      Your welcome, everyone makes mistakes.

        Loading editor
    • But where can I watch Collector.

      I'll take anything ( Nope I don't take Illegal recordings, nice try though).

        Loading editor
    • This theory sounds pretty neat.

        Loading editor
    • Nathalie being Le Paon has it's base as a theory, but you yourself pointed the flaws in said theory. In my opinion -and my wishes, too, because I wouldn't like her being such an important villain- we'll have to wait for more episodes from 2nd season (btw, i'm writing this coment alreading having watched episode 8) and see if they introduce more characters. Even if they don't we already -kind of- know that Le Paon's civilian form will be showed at the end of season 2; and because of that, we can't exactly theorize soundly. After all, it might as well be Nathalie (and this is just the suspense of circling around who it might be) or someone else entirely, someone we don't even know from any episode in any season and it's going to be introduced in some of the last episodes or something.


       
      Personally, I believe someone outside of everything till now has been following the miraculouses' track, be it following Gabriel Agreste, his wife (who may be wandering who-knows-where), master Fu, etc. steps. Also, it's possible that this someone knows about Gabriel keeping the peacock and has been researching, picking each oportunity the akumas make for them (for lack of knowlegde in if Le Paon works alone or not) to research where he has been keeping it. This way, they could steal it in some of the final eps. -Unless it's a fake, a copy, as you're saying.


      If Le Paon were other character we don't know yet, It would be more interesting and plot-wise-easier, as it gives her some space of action; because if she were Natalie, Gabriel would be hot on her heels, she would have to hide the PM and- well, like I said, what could she possibly do to keep going and execute whatever plans she might have in that situation? (ok, there must be a way, and i know someone's gonna point it out, but the point stands-it would be difficult and annoying). and I don't think he would let himself be played with as a subordinate by someone who he already considers one.

      As in "space of action" I'm referring to the fact that nobody would know who she is, but she'd know Gabriel's identity and he'd be hard pressed to obligue to whatever she wants him to do; turning her into her boss, as we know she'll be labeled as in season 3.

      Also, for whoever thinks the "identity reveal" thing also works for Hawk Moth in the case Le Paon is Nathalie and he wants her not to be, well, think about it; LB and CN would be in possession of the PM and give it to Fu, taking it away from Gabriel, and also, it would ruin his low profile attemps with akumatising himself, because unmasking a villain like that would be suspicious.

      To end this, It's more likely that nathalie is going to be akumatized and that's it. She's more of a secondary character than anything, and although that more-or-less got dumped when we realized she knew Gabriel was HM, it actually doesn't makes her that important yet.


      Apologies for mistakes; I speak Spanish as 1st language.
        Loading editor
    • Luzmágica4ever wrote:

      Nathalie being Le Paon has it's base as a theory, but you yourself pointed the flaws in said theory. In my opinion -and my wishes, too, because I wouldn't like her being such an important villain- we'll have to wait for more episodes from 2nd season (btw, i'm writing this coment alreading having watched episode 8) and see if they introduce more characters. Even if they don't we already -kind of- know that Le Paon's civilian form will be showed at the end of season 2; and because of that, we can't exactly theorize soundly. After all, it might as well be Nathalie (and this is just the suspense of circling around who it might be) or someone else entirely, someone we don't even know from any episode in any season and it's going to be introduced in some of the last episodes or something.


       
      Personally, I believe someone outside of everything till now has been following the miraculouses' track, be it following Gabriel Agreste, his wife (who may be wandering who-knows-where), master Fu, etc. steps. Also, it's possible that this someone knows about Gabriel keeping the peacock and has been researching, picking each oportunity the akumas make for them (for lack of knowlegde in if Le Paon works alone or not) to research where he has been keeping it. This way, they could steal it in some of the final eps. -Unless it's a fake, a copy, as you're saying.


      If Le Paon were other character we don't know yet, It would be more interesting and plot-wise-easier, as it gives her some space of action; because if she were Natalie, Gabriel would be hot on her heels, she would have to hide the PM and- well, like I said, what could she possibly do to keep going and execute whatever plans she might have in that situation? (ok, there must be a way, and i know someone's gonna point it out, but the point stands-it would be difficult and annoying). and I don't think he would let himself be played with as a subordinate by someone who he already considers one.

      As in "space of action" I'm referring to the fact that nobody would know who she is, but she'd know Gabriel's identity and he'd be hard pressed to obligue to whatever she wants him to do; turning her into her boss, as we know she'll be labeled as in season 3.

      Also, for whoever thinks the "identity reveal" thing also works for Hawk Moth in the case Le Paon is Nathalie and he wants her not to be, well, think about it; LB and CN would be in possession of the PM and give it to Fu, taking it away from Gabriel, and also, it would ruin his low profile attemps with akumatising himself, because unmasking a villain like that would be suspicious.

      To end this, It's more likely that nathalie is going to be akumatized and that's it. She's more of a secondary character than anything, and although that more-or-less got dumped when we realized she knew Gabriel was HM, it actually doesn't makes her that important yet.


      Apologies for mistakes; I speak Spanish as 1st language.

      What mistakes? You use a lot of hyphens but that's it. Your english is fantastic, mate.

      I actually think we won't know who the civilian identity of le Paon is, we'll just have suspects. Like I don't think they'll show someone with the Peacock Miraculous, we'll just have seen her civilian identity by the end of the season. That is one way to interpret it.


      I just detest the idea that both main villains live with or are important to Adrien, you know?

      But, as I'm voicing why it could be Nathalie... gotta not talk too much about why I don't support this.

      If Le Paon turns to not actually be his "boss", but his partner in crime, then Nathalie makes sense, since she already has experience in working with Gabriel/Hawk Moth. Her lack of emotion could play into her being seen as scary to him, since she's much more in control, although it's possible this person who made Hawk Moth feel fear was actually Robostus. Nathalie is in a position to work with Hawk Moth, but I don't know if they could be on equal footing.

      Nathalie is obviously someone who compromises if she can- she does this with Adrien, it's why he's in school now. If she is Le Paon, then her motive is probably Adrien. She obviously cares for the kid, since he can get her to show emotion, or at least one that isn't fear. So it's possible she could become Le Paon through this, especially if hers and Hawk Moth's goals line up, although Hawk Moth says in "Dark Owl" that he wishes to erase something in the past. What something does he want to erase? His wife's disappearance? A mistake he made? Could he want to erase Adrien from existence? Is it even a mistake from his past? Could he want to erase the Miraculouses or the kwamis from existence? What event in the past does Hawk Moth/Gabriel want to erase? What will happen if he does that? It has to be something important, so it would cause a... ahem.... butterfly effect. Which, in hindsight, it's obvious now he wants to erase a happening of his past. The entire future could be different depending on what he wished away, and someone somewhere will have to lose something in return for his wish. Adrien could lose something. Gabriel could lose something. His wish could retcon Marinette out of existence. Like if he wishes for the love of his life back, he might not lose Adrien physically, but his wish will cost Adrien the love of his life. 

      What his goal is will ultimately I think determine if Nathalie is Le Paon or not if we won't already know by the time that's revealed. I don't think Nathalie will want to get too involved with something as messy as tampering with time itself.
        Loading editor
    • Le Paon is the one who controls Hawkmoth if I am correct?

        Loading editor
    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      Le Paon is the one who controls Hawkmoth if I am correct?

      Supposedly, but I've heard that was a mistranslation and she isn't his boss, but his partner.

        Loading editor
    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      Le Paon is the one who controls Hawkmoth if I am correct?

      Supposedly, but I've heard that was a mistranslation and she isn't his boss, but his partner.

      I did read somewhere that Le Paon makes Hawkmoth look like a baby, but never that she was his boss, than again I could have missed that.

        Loading editor
    • JasmineMermaid wrote:

      I did read somewhere that Le Paon makes Hawkmoth look like a baby, but never that she was his boss, than again I could have missed that.

      I believe both of those notes appear on Le Paon's page. Both the bit where she makes Hawk Moth look harmless and where she becomes his boss. But I was told the "boss" part was a mistranslation, but I guess we'll see.

        Loading editor
    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Luzmágica4ever wrote:

      Nathalie being Le Paon has it's base as a theory, but you yourself pointed the flaws in said theory. In my opinion -and my wishes, too, because I wouldn't like her being such an important villain- we'll have to wait for more episodes from 2nd season (btw, i'm writing this coment alreading having watched episode 8) and see if they introduce more characters. Even if they don't we already -kind of- know that Le Paon's civilian form will be showed at the end of season 2; and because of that, we can't exactly theorize soundly. After all, it might as well be Nathalie (and this is just the suspense of circling around who it might be) or someone else entirely, someone we don't even know from any episode in any season and it's going to be introduced in some of the last episodes or something.


       
      Personally, I believe someone outside of everything till now has been following the miraculouses' track, be it following Gabriel Agreste, his wife (who may be wandering who-knows-where), master Fu, etc. steps. Also, it's possible that this someone knows about Gabriel keeping the peacock and has been researching, picking each oportunity the akumas make for them (for lack of knowlegde in if Le Paon works alone or not) to research where he has been keeping it. This way, they could steal it in some of the final eps. -Unless it's a fake, a copy, as you're saying.


      If Le Paon were other character we don't know yet, It would be more interesting and plot-wise-easier, as it gives her some space of action; because if she were Natalie, Gabriel would be hot on her heels, she would have to hide the PM and- well, like I said, what could she possibly do to keep going and execute whatever plans she might have in that situation? (ok, there must be a way, and i know someone's gonna point it out, but the point stands-it would be difficult and annoying). and I don't think he would let himself be played with as a subordinate by someone who he already considers one.

      As in "space of action" I'm referring to the fact that nobody would know who she is, but she'd know Gabriel's identity and he'd be hard pressed to obligue to whatever she wants him to do; turning her into her boss, as we know she'll be labeled as in season 3.

      Also, for whoever thinks the "identity reveal" thing also works for Hawk Moth in the case Le Paon is Nathalie and he wants her not to be, well, think about it; LB and CN would be in possession of the PM and give it to Fu, taking it away from Gabriel, and also, it would ruin his low profile attemps with akumatising himself, because unmasking a villain like that would be suspicious.

      To end this, It's more likely that nathalie is going to be akumatized and that's it. She's more of a secondary character than anything, and although that more-or-less got dumped when we realized she knew Gabriel was HM, it actually doesn't makes her that important yet.


      Apologies for mistakes; I speak Spanish as 1st language.

      What mistakes? You use a lot of hyphens but that's it. Your english is fantastic, mate.

      I actually think we won't know who the civilian identity of le Paon is, we'll just have suspects. Like I don't think they'll show someone with the Peacock Miraculous, we'll just have seen her civilian identity by the end of the season. That is one way to interpret it.


      I just detest the idea that both main villains live with or are important to Adrien, you know?

      But, as I'm voicing why it could be Nathalie... gotta not talk too much about why I don't support this.

      If Le Paon turns to not actually be his "boss", but his partner in crime, then Nathalie makes sense, since she already has experience in working with Gabriel/Hawk Moth. Her lack of emotion could play into her being seen as scary to him, since she's much more in control, although it's possible this person who made Hawk Moth feel fear was actually Robostus. Nathalie is in a position to work with Hawk Moth, but I don't know if they could be on equal footing.

      Nathalie is obviously someone who compromises if she can- she does this with Adrien, it's why he's in school now. If she is Le Paon, then her motive is probably Adrien. She obviously cares for the kid, since he can get her to show emotion, or at least one that isn't fear. So it's possible she could become Le Paon through this, especially if hers and Hawk Moth's goals line up, although Hawk Moth says in "Dark Owl" that he wishes to erase something in the past. What something does he want to erase? His wife's disappearance? A mistake he made? Could he want to erase Adrien from existence? Is it even a mistake from his past? Could he want to erase the Miraculouses or the kwamis from existence? What event in the past does Hawk Moth/Gabriel want to erase? What will happen if he does that? It has to be something important, so it would cause a... ahem.... butterfly effect. Which, in hindsight, it's obvious now he wants to erase a happening of his past. The entire future could be different depending on what he wished away, and someone somewhere will have to lose something in return for his wish. Adrien could lose something. Gabriel could lose something. His wish could retcon Marinette out of existence. Like if he wishes for the love of his life back, he might not lose Adrien physically, but his wish will cost Adrien the love of his life. 

      What his goal is will ultimately I think determine if Nathalie is Le Paon or not if we won't already know by the time that's revealed. I don't think Nathalie will want to get too involved with something as messy as tampering with time itself.

      Thanks, buddy ^_^ I try

      You know? I didn't really think of that, I think that's a more plausible possibility, according to the mechanics of the show until now. I mean, why outright show the villain, when you can turn their identity into a 'Where's Wally?' game? It obviuosly helps to lenghten the plot and stuff. Nice perspective you got there.

      Also, yeah, I know right? That's another reason (although I didn't give it much though at first, it was mostly an understatement in my mind, I guess) why to think about Le Paon as another person other than Nathalie. Imo, it would be redundant to put two antagonists so close. Just for what? for them to be unmasked easily and simultaneously? Nah, to plot-wise boring and flat. I don't think they'd do it. Sigh, they might as well do it, who knows.

        Loading editor
    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      Le Paon is the one who controls Hawkmoth if I am correct?
      Supposedly, but I've heard that was a mistranslation and she isn't his boss, but his partner.

      Mmm...

      Well, maybe there's that. It could be that she'll actually be his partner instead of boss. If it it a mistranslation indeed, then what else can we do apart from wait and see? I mean wait for a clarification or a confirmation; either is welcome in this dilemma of words we have here.

        Loading editor
    • My guess is firmly Nathalie. It makes sense, considering how close she is to Gabriel, Hawk Moth, and knows his secret. There have been a lot of theories that Mrs. Agreste was the former Peacock miraculous holder, but that wouldn't make sense, since she disappeared on the same trip that Gabriel found the book and the two miraculouses.

      Also, Andre being this villain is impossible, as Le Paon is obviously female. In facial features, in clothing, in all, really. Her being male just doesn't make sense.

      Anyways, since we all know Hawk Moth greatly despises being ordered around, it seems Nathalie will take it by force, (if it really ends up being her) maybe after a strong fight they have. Perhaps he'll fire her when she messes up badly, and as a result she'll break back in or something, steal the Peacock Miraculous, and use it against him almost as a bribe. Like she says she'll join forces with him, (confusing Hawk Moth because he knows he didn't akumaize her into this monster) and threaten to give away his secret identity if he refuses or tries to take her down or ignore her orders. That's my guess; my sis and I figured that out.

        Loading editor
    • Crazyatady15 wrote:
      My guess is firmly Nathalie. It makes sense, considering how close she is to Gabriel, Hawk Moth, and knows his secret. There have been a lot of theories that Mrs. Agreste was the former Peacock miraculous holder, but that wouldn't make sense, since she disappeared on the same trip that Gabriel found the book and the two miraculouses.

      Also, Andre being this villain is impossible, as Le Paon is obviously female. In facial features, in clothing, in all, really. Her being male just doesn't make sense.

      Anyways, since we all know Hawk Moth greatly despises being ordered around, it seems Nathalie will take it by force, (if it really ends up being her) maybe after a strong fight they have. Perhaps he'll fire her when she messes up badly, and as a result she'll break back in or something, steal the Peacock Miraculous, and use it against him almost as a bribe. Like she says she'll join forces with him, (confusing Hawk Moth because he knows he didn't akumaize her into this monster) and threaten to give away his secret identity if he refuses or tries to take her down or ignore her orders. That's my guess; my sis and I figured that out.

      I don't know if Nathalie could exactly threaten Gabriel with unmasking him, with the perspective you're using (him knowing it's her), bc in that case Gabriel (ok, he would be taken in by LB and CN, clearly) would uncover her in turn. That'd end in a stalemate in the show, with no more villains to fight, the identities of said antagonists on air too soon, and a rather anticlimatic fight- well, not actually anticlimatic; I think it'd still be epic, nonetheless, but not passionate or interesting enough to fuflfill the expectations, ya' know?

      I mean, the series has quite a lot of personality, in the sense that it has a rather dramatic way to develop the scenes and discoveries. When I theorize about anything in here, I try to be logical (Umm, with the mechanics of the show, that is) and make guesses that have probable possibilities of happening. Besides, the show has yet to show more complex background plot or subtle plot development in general. And until it does, we have to keep the theories simple. I.e. I don't see Gabriel firing nathalie, bc she's like one of those permanent characters that stick around no matter what. Also, hiring someone else'd be more difficult, taking into account that they'd eventually have to be brought into his secret, like Nathalie has shown to know. Alsox2, she already knows Gabriel's identity, so... she could give him away-

      ...

      wait a minute

      actually, although i don't think it's gonna happen anyways, i just saw another path (with ur perspective XD); I mean, let's recapitulate. ok, he fires her for messing something up, check. Then, if she wanted revenge, she could indeed give him away AND simultaneously, while he's being processed, take the PM and BAM, there it goes Le Paon with Gabriel only suspecting it's Nathalie, but without further proves than suspicion. But like i said; that still sounds far fetched and improbable.

      Though I still follow what my instincs dictate and think Le Paon isn't Nathalie (imo, Le Paon doesn't really look exactly like her, in shape, i mean, like- face, body complexion, height, idk)(and also i don't think they'd put the main enemies so close)

        Loading editor
    • Well, maybe so, but they would be a stronger fighting force if they were closer. Plus, we don't have an up-close, extremely detailed picture of Le Paon yet, so we don't quite know..... also, look at Gabriel. He has a very distinctively-shaped face, which I actually saw in the silhoutte of Hawk Moth's civilian form in the Origins Part 1 before his identity was revealed to all us viewers. But when he transforms into Hawk Moth, we don't see it anymore. He looks a great deal different as Hawk Moth, actually, not counting his eye color and voice. (actually you cant see his voice XD) But anyway, we don't know Le Paon's real eye color, because they are literally inhuman. Even moreso than Cat Noir's change of eyes. But she does have a similar hairstyle, though we can't exactly rely on that either because look at Cat Noir. ;) How about I just say that the creators are doing a good job at keeping her mysterious. For now... XD ;)

        Loading editor
    • hahahahaha I agree. We have little information to use, tbh.

        Loading editor
    • Luzmágica4ever wrote:

      Though I still follow what my instincs dictate and think Le Paon isn't Nathalie (imo, Le Paon doesn't really look exactly like her, in shape, i mean, like- face, body complexion, height, idk)(and also i don't think they'd put the main enemies so close)

      To be perfectly honest, how she looks can't be used to disqualify anyone. Hawk Moth does not look like Gabriel Agreste, even post-reveal. His lips are thicker, his eyes are larger, he doesn't have ears, and his head is a different shape. Le Paon could be just about anyone as long as they have the same or a similar figure to Le Paon, which no female character in the show has so far. Le Paon's hips are much narrower than any adult female character we've seen so far. Her slender hips, which are not much wider than her waist, is in line with the teenage characters.

      So Le Paon could well be a teenager despite her outfit.

      ...


      Just saying, even though I'm supposed to be arguing for Nathalie here.

        Loading editor
    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Luzmágica4ever wrote:

      Though I still follow what my instincs dictate and think Le Paon isn't Nathalie (imo, Le Paon doesn't really look exactly like her, in shape, i mean, like- face, body complexion, height, idk)(and also i don't think they'd put the main enemies so close)

      To be perfectly honest, how she looks can't be used to disqualify anyone. Hawk Moth does not look like Gabriel Agreste, even post-reveal. His lips are thicker, his eyes are larger, he doesn't have ears, and his head is a different shape. Le Paon could be just about anyone as long as they have the same or a similar figure to Le Paon, which no female character in the show has so far. Le Paon's hips are much narrower than any adult female character we've seen so far. Her slender hips, which are not much wider than her waist, is in line with the teenage characters.

      So Le Paon could well be a teenager despite her outfit.

      ...


      Just saying, even though I'm supposed to be arguing for Nathalie here.

      Yeah, that's the deal; post-transformation's appearances are not exactly the same, and trying to link them to someone in specific would be going around in darkness (GAH but it's hard not to try T-T XD).

      Heck, can you imagine Le Paon being a teenager? it's no so far off, but god goodness I always seem to take for a fact that villains are adults, for some reason (i mean in general, not ML specifically). But I don't think in this case she's going to be someone young. Too many adult suspects, imo. But... 

      ARG we SO need more info.

        Loading editor
    • Luzmágica4ever wrote:

      Yeah, that's the deal; post-transformation's appearances are not exactly the same, and trying to link them to someone in specific would be going around in darkness (GAH but it's hard not to try T-T XD).

      Heck, can you imagine Le Paon being a teenager? it's no so far off, but god goodness I always seem to take for a fact that villains are adults, for some reason (i mean in general, not ML specifically). But I don't think in this case she's going to be someone young. Too many adult suspects, imo. But... 

      ARG we SO need more info.

      No, there seems to be some kind of changes that vary from person to person. Most of them don't change much, but Cat Noir gains more catlike features, Hawk Moth grows taller and his head and facial features change, and Le Paon is closer to being a peacock anthro than a human with her blue skin, inhuman eyes, and odd build.

      Hawk Moth still seems to have the same build as Gabriel does, being tall and slender, but he's just a more menacing height with a more inhuman facial structure thanks to his larger eyes and unusually thick lips, coupled with his silver mask highlighting his face weirdly. So it's unlikely Le Paon changes her build much.

      Well, it's just a thought. Le Paon could be Kagami or Lila (which will make a lot of people happy), she could be Mireille (still the only student at the school who has not been akumatised) or she could be a student we haven't yet met. Since Season 2's page updated while I was replying here, there are now 19 announced episodes, and we know of at least four more episodes with the hairsticks villain, the small purple one with the pillow, the mermaid, and the black and white villain. That leaves three episodes, though only two if Luka is not the black and white villain and no episodes possible if the twins aren't the obvious choice of the small antennae villain and the small villain.

        Loading editor
    • I don't think this is anywhere near right, but what if Duusu got sucked back into the miraculous, and (if Mrs. Agreste was the peacock miraculous holder,) Mrs. Agreste was touching/holding Dusuu and got sucked in as well? It's off-topic, sorry about that. But honestly, I really don't know.

        Loading editor
    • I only thought of that through Rogercop (I think), where Plagg tells Adrien: If he tries to transform, the bracelet will absorb and damage Adrien's powers.

        Loading editor
    • Mrs. Agreste couldn't have been the former holder, because Gabriel found the book and the two miraculouses on the same trip she disappeared. It doesn't make any sense for her to have it before, actually it's impossible.

        Loading editor
    • Crazyatady15 wrote:
      Mrs. Agreste couldn't have been the former holder, because Gabriel found the book and the two miraculouses on the same trip she disappeared. It doesn't make any sense for her to have it before, actually it's impossible.

      That's what I keep telling people but people are stuck on the "Mrs Agreste and Gabriel were a superhero duo" thing.

      If Gabriel truly has the Peacock Miraculous, then Le Paon can only be Nathalie or Mrs Agreste. If he does not, and the brooch is just something of Madame Agreste's, then Le Paon could be any female with the right body type.

        Loading editor
    • I honestly think that the thing in his closet is the real Peacock miraculous, as it totally makes sense; Master Fu said that whoever has the spell book must also have the two miraculouses. Since we know for sure that he has the book and the Moth Miraculous for certain, I think it too probable for the brooch being there to be a coincidence. It has​ to be. It only makes sense.

      Someone came up with a theory that maybe if Hawk Moth did somehow get the miraculouses of the Ladybug and the Black Cat, he would wish for her to come back, but as the flipped result occurs, he loses the woman he loves, ending with Mrs. Agreste becoming Le Paon. However, I'm now seeing a fault in this theory: in order for her to have come back, Ladybug and Cat Noir would've lost their miraculouses, and, still not knowing Hawk Moth's identity for sure, would not be able to reclaim their jewels. And we know at least for a fact that when Le Paon arrives, Ladybug and Cat Noir are still around.

      I'm still thinking it's Nathalie, but we'll all find out eventually who it is, then we'll be satified.

        Loading editor
    • Crazyatady15 wrote:
      I honestly think that the thing in his closet is the real Peacock miraculous, as it totally makes sense; Master Fu said that whoever has the spell book must also have the two miraculouses. Since we know for sure that he has the book and the Moth Miraculous for certain, I think it too probable for the brooch being there to be a coincidence. It has​ to be. It only makes sense.

      Someone came up with a theory that maybe if Hawk Moth did somehow get the miraculouses of the Ladybug and the Black Cat, he would wish for her to come back, but as the flipped result occurs, he loses the woman he loves, ending with Mrs. Agreste becoming Le Paon. However, I'm now seeing a fault in this theory: in order for her to have come back, Ladybug and Cat Noir would've lost their miraculouses, and, still not knowing Hawk Moth's identity for sure, would not be able to reclaim their jewels. And we know at least for a fact that when Le Paon arrives, Ladybug and Cat Noir are still around.

      I'm still thinking it's Nathalie, but we'll all find out eventually who it is, then we'll be satified.

      Unless someone picked up the brooch before, it was stolen, or Mrs Agreste has the real one. Or when they found it, the Peacock wasn't with the Moth and Book. We don't know exactly how they found it. It could have been something they bought in a store in Tibet and someone already bought the Peacock. There's little grounds to assume the Peacock in the safe is the real one considering we have no clue how Gabriel found the Miraculous and the Book in the first place.

      I think that might be my theory you're talking about. Did it go something like he wishes for her back, and he gets her back physically, but she loses her personality in exchange? I know I submitted that idea at any rate.

        Loading editor
    • Probably... I forgot who posted that theory so it might as well have been you. XD

      But as i said, coincidence isnt too probable...

        Loading editor
    • Crazyatady15 wrote:
      Probably... I forgot who posted that theory so it might as well have been you. XD

      But as i said, coincidence isnt too probable...

      What coincidence? Surely the events of Paris are reaching other countries, so anyone who obtained the Peacock beforehand would naturally be drawn to Paris if they, too, want the Ladybug and Black Ca Miraculouses.

        Loading editor
    • What if Natalie begins to gain the trust of Gabriel. Marinette might begin to suspect Natalie as Hawk Moth. Gabriel has the book, but Gabriel has been akumatized. It cannot be his mom, she disappeared years ago and their absolutely NO way Adrien is related to a 24/7 supervillain. Adrien's body guard is... Adrien's body guard. Natalie is the secretary of Gabriel - which would put her close to the book, and being she's only near Adrien without being related to him, Natalie is a safe assumption for Marinette. Natalie of course is not Hawkmoth, and thinking Gabriels secret room is nothing more than a private design studio or something similar, she has no reason to be conserned. After the cops find nothing, she can return to her life. Gabriel would want to immediately disprove her, the investigation would eventually take them to the Agreste Mansion - her work. Gabriel wouldn't want to risk the lair being discovered, the police wouldn't quite understand the broach - however since Ladybug would be leading the investigation, she would identify the miraculous, and Noruu would implicate Gabriel. He would have to reveal himself to Natalie, and he would need to strike a deal.

        Loading editor
    • Yugioh z wrote:
      What if Natalie begins to gain the trust of Gabriel. Marinette might begin to suspect Natalie as Hawk Moth. Gabriel has the book, but Gabriel has been akumatized. It cannot be his mom, she disappeared years ago and their absolutely NO way Adrien is related to a 24/7 supervillain. Adrien's body guard is... Adrien's body guard. Natalie is the secretary of Gabriel - which would put her close to the book, and being she's only near Adrien without being related to him, Natalie is a safe assumption for Marinette. Natalie of course is not Hawkmoth, and thinking Gabriels secret room is nothing more than a private design studio or something similar, she has no reason to be conserned. After the cops find nothing, she can return to her life. Gabriel would want to immediately disprove her, the investigation would eventually take them to the Agreste Mansion - her work. Gabriel wouldn't want to risk the lair being discovered, the police wouldn't quite understand the broach - however since Ladybug would be leading the investigation, she would identify the miraculous, and Noruu would implicate Gabriel. He would have to reveal himself to Natalie, and he would need to strike a deal.

      What?

      Ok let me see if I can figure out what you just said, because I'm confused. You're saying Nathalie begins to earn Gabriel's trust (which she already has), and that because Gabriel has been akumatised and mostly eliminated from her suspect list, Marinette suspects Nathalie is Hawk Moth and then something about Ladybug leading a police investigation of the Agreste manor and Ladybug identifies the Miraculous she can't see and somehow finds Nooroo and realises Gabriel is Hawk Moth anyway and then Gabriel reveals himelf as Hawk Moth to Nathalie (which she already knows) to try and get her to help?

      What?

        Loading editor
    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Crazyatady15 wrote:
      Probably... I forgot who posted that theory so it might as well have been you. XD

      But as i said, coincidence isnt too probable...

      What coincidence? Surely the events of Paris are reaching other countries, so anyone who obtained the Peacock beforehand would naturally be drawn to Paris if they, too, want the Ladybug and Black Ca Miraculouses.

      The coincidence that Gabriel just happens​ to have something that looks like the peacock miraculous as well as the moth miraculous and the spell book.

        Loading editor
    • Crazyatady15 wrote:

      The coincidence that Gabriel just happens​ to have something that looks like the peacock miraculous as well as the moth miraculous and the spell book.

      The Peacock isn't a coincidence if you remember Gabriel has a line of jewellery designed to look like Miraculouses. That's what Lila uses in "Volpina" to lie to Adrien.

      But that's irrelevant, I think. That being because the brooch in the safe doesn't look like the Peacock Miraculous. Here's a full explanation if you want to know what I'm talking about. So, with those two things in mind, there is no "coincidence". If that is the real design of the Peacock Miraculous, Gabriel makes jewellery based on the Miraculouses. If it isn't the real design of the Peacock Miraculous, then it obviously isn't the Peacock Miraculous and Gabriel doesn't have it.

        Loading editor
    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Crazyatady15 wrote:

      The coincidence that Gabriel just happens​ to have something that looks like the peacock miraculous as well as the moth miraculous and the spell book.

      The Peacock isn't a coincidence if you remember Gabriel has a line of jewellery designed to look like Miraculouses. That's what Lila uses in "Volpina" to lie to Adrien.

      But that's irrelevant, I think. That being because the brooch in the safe doesn't look like the Peacock Miraculous. Here's a full explanation if you want to know what I'm talking about. So, with those two things in mind, there is no "coincidence". If that is the real design of the Peacock Miraculous, Gabriel makes jewellery based on the Miraculouses. If it isn't the real design of the Peacock Miraculous, then it obviously isn't the Peacock Miraculous and Gabriel doesn't have it.

      Okay... true, I do admit you have a good point. But if it really is just a fake, or a design of his copied from the spell book, why does he have it kept away in a safe with the spell book and not for sale?

        Loading editor
    • Crazyatady15 wrote: Okay... true, I do admit you have a good point. But if it really is just a fake, or a design of his copied from the spell book, why does he have it kept away in a safe with the spell book and not for sale?

      Considering where it is in the safe? It’s significant to his wife. Peacocks might be significant to her in some way so he made the brooch for her and only her. It could be an old brooch and unrelated period to the Miraculouses because it can’t be copied from the spell book. The spellbook doesn’t depict the green brooch. The brooch is blue like Dusuu and Le Paon in the spellbook, has five feathers like Duusu’s tail, and is a different shape. Apart from being peacocks, they look nothing alike. So it’s most likely either real or irrelevant.

      The only proof we have the green brooch is legit is it being shown in the opening but the kwamis don’t leave light trails when they move so the opening might not be a good indicator. We have never seen the Peacock Miraculous and had it called as such. It simply doesn’t add up that the green brooch is the Miraculous. It’s completely different from the other six Miraculouses. Like I seriously explained it all in the thing I linked.

        Loading editor
    • But the brooch in the safe and the Peacock miraculous literally look exactly alike. I just pulled up a different tab of the wiki and found the picture of the legit peacock miraculous, then found the episode "Volpina" on youtube and paused it at a very good shot of the brooch in the safe. I compared them, and they are completely identical. True, the actual picture is slightly lighter in color, but two reasons disqualify that arguement: one, the one Gabriel has is inside a closet, which automatically makes it darker than in am open room. Two, the makers have made mistakes with lighting before. This may as well be another one though we don't know for sure.

        Loading editor
    • Crazyatady15 wrote:
      But the brooch in the safe and the Peacock miraculous literally look exactly alike. I just pulled up a different tab of the wiki and found the picture of the legit peacock miraculous, then found the episode "Volpina" on youtube and paused it at a very good shot of the brooch in the safe. I compared them, and they are completely identical. True, the actual picture is slightly lighter in color, but two reasons disqualify that arguement: one, the one Gabriel has is inside a closet, which automatically makes it darker than in am open room. Two, the makers have made mistakes with lighting before. This may as well be another one though we don't know for sure.
      Peacock Miraculous and Weapon Page
      (point)
        Loading editor
    • Thearomalady wrote:
      What?

      Ok let me see if I can figure out what you just said, because I'm confused. You're saying Nathalie begins to earn Gabriel's trust (which she already has), and that because Gabriel has been akumatised and mostly eliminated from her suspect list, Marinette suspects Nathalie is Hawk Moth and then something about Ladybug leading a police investigation of the Agreste manor and Ladybug identifies the Miraculous she can't see and somehow finds Nooroo and realises Gabriel is Hawk Moth anyway and then Gabriel reveals himelf as Hawk Moth to Nathalie (which she already knows) to try and get her to help?

      What?

      What I mean is, Gabriel might actually have been lying to her about what his lair actually is. All we know is Gabriel gave her a sketchbook, and told her she knows where it goes. How could Natalie have known Gabriel wanted to akumatize himself, it was never an action he has done before. However, she (as far as we know) took the book to his lair. So Natalie has brought sketchbooks to the lair before, she knows that is where Gabriel asks of her to take them (or she put in the safe, meaning she hasn't really earn Gabriel's trust enough to actually enter the lair, so she would not be aware of what is in there or what he does in there). It has yet to be confirmed how much she actually knows, in fact we only are certain she knows Gabriel has a secret, and if she has brought sketchbooks to a dark room with a large window and butterflies, she might not actually know what the lair is for. She could believe its his room of inspiration or something like that.

        Loading editor
    • Thearomalady wrote:
      Crazyatady15 wrote:
      But the brooch in the safe and the Peacock miraculous literally look exactly alike. I just pulled up a different tab of the wiki and found the picture of the legit peacock miraculous, then found the episode "Volpina" on youtube and paused it at a very good shot of the brooch in the safe. I compared them, and they are completely identical. True, the actual picture is slightly lighter in color, but two reasons disqualify that arguement: one, the one Gabriel has is inside a closet, which automatically makes it darker than in am open room. Two, the makers have made mistakes with lighting before. This may as well be another one though we don't know for sure.
      Peacock Miraculous and Weapon Page
      (point)
      ListPeacock

      The Brooch in the safe

      They look identical, also we have already noted not all the images of the miraculous in the spellbook are identical to the ones in reality. Cat Noirs ring has the four claws on it, but these are not documented in the book. I am not sure we can use the book to disprove this as the miraculous, I mean it still could be, but we still can't prove it.
      Peacock Miraculous

      The Brooch in the miraculous box

        Loading editor
    • Yugioh z wrote:

      What I mean is, Gabriel might actually have been lying to her about what his lair actually is. All we know is Gabriel gave her a sketchbook, and told her she knows where it goes. How could Natalie have known Gabriel wanted to akumatize himself, it was never an action he has done before. However, she (as far as we know) took the book to his lair. So Natalie has brought sketchbooks to the lair before, she knows that is where Gabriel asks of her to take them (or she put in the safe, meaning she hasn't really earn Gabriel's trust enough to actually enter the lair, so she would not be aware of what is in there or what he does in there). It has yet to be confirmed how much she actually knows, in fact we only are certain she knows Gabriel has a secret, and if she has brought sketchbooks to a dark room with a large window and butterflies, she might not actually know what the lair is for. She could believe its his room of inspiration or something like that.

      She asks him about him going through "all that trouble" to get the book back, so she had to know. I think she didn't know he'd attack her. Plus, he hands her the book and tells her "you know where this goes".

        Loading editor
    • Thearomalady wrote:
      She asks him about him going through "all that trouble" to get the book back, so she had to know. I think she didn't know he'd attack her. Plus, he hands her the book and tells her "you know where this goes".

      From her position before the attack, it sounded to her like he was paniking over the book, plus the story he made up about the Collector was he lost his book of inspiration, and was going to make a new one using all of Paris. Plus how would she know where it goes if Gabriel didnt specify to take it to his hidden Hawkmoth lair. If this was an emergency plan, I would imagine he would need to give her more pointers, if she did take the book in there with everything she was told, she has had to bring sketch books into the lair before. All it means is she has been to the lair, not that she knows what goes on in it.

        Loading editor
    • Yugioh z wrote:
      ListPeacock

      The Brooch in the safe

      They look identical, also we have already noted not all the images of the miraculous in the spellbook are identical to the ones in reality. Cat Noirs ring has the four claws on it, but these are not documented in the book. I am not sure we can use the book to disprove this as the miraculous, I mean it still could be, but we still can't prove it.
      Peacock Miraculous

      The Brooch in the miraculous box

      Yeah, THOSE are the same object, clearly, but the book shows a completely different item. Not like Cat Noir's ring missing something, a totally different object. That's a massive difference. It'd basically like if the book showed *Felix's version of the Black Cat ring instead of the one Adrien has but without the claws that, it should be pointed out, are not the same colour as the rest of the ring. They're grey, not black. They might not actually be originally part of the Miraculous and were added after the Spellbook was made to do something to Cat Noir's powers. It could be like the special pearls Ladybug gets, but he has claws that go on his ring. the claws might serve a function of some sort to the Ring and that's why they aren't in the book, but the two brooches are clearly two completely different items. One is green with nine long, thin feathers that form a slightly curved line along the bottom, and one is blue with five broader feathers forming almost a right angle.

      Why does the book have a discrepancy with the facts? The Bee, Moth, Fox, and Ladybug are completely correct. So why is there a small change in the Black Cat's and why is the Peacock clearly a different item entirely? There has to be a reason.

      The one in the book, like I said before, matches with the themes set by the other 6 Miraculouses of matching the colouring of their generated costume and kwami. There is absoluely no green anywhere on Duusu. Plus, have we been explicitly told that is the Peacock Miraculous? No.

      Gotta put this after some words so it doesn't make a bullet- *this isn't even a one-to-one comparison, by the way. Felix's ring has more in common with Adrien's ring than the brooch in the book has with the one in the safe. Both Black Cat rings are black, feline-themed rings. All the two brooches have in common is they're both peacock-themed brooches. That's literally it.

      You have to admit there's a glaring error. You cannot just chalk it up to "the book isn't accurate" especially since they're keeping Le Paon's Miraculous concealed.

        Loading editor
    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Yeah, THOSE are the same object, clearly, but the book shows a completely different item. Not like Cat Noir's ring missing something, a totally different object. That's a massive difference. It'd basically like if the book showed *Felix's version of the Black Cat ring instead of the one Adrien has but without the claws that, it should be pointed out, are not the same colour as the rest of the ring. They're grey, not black. They might not actually be originally part of the Miraculous and were added after the Spellbook was made to do something to Cat Noir's powers. It could be like the special pearls Ladybug gets, but he has claws that go on his ring. the claws might serve a function of some sort to the Ring and that's why they aren't in the book, but the two brooches are clearly two completely different items. One is green with nine long, thin feathers that form a slightly curved line along the bottom, and one is blue with five broader feathers forming almost a right angle.

      Why does the book have a discrepancy with the facts? The Bee, Moth, Fox, and Ladybug are completely correct. So why is there a small change in the Black Cat's and why is the Peacock clearly a different item entirely? There has to be a reason.

      The one in the book, like I said before, matches with the themes set by the other 6 Miraculouses of matching the colouring of their generated costume and kwami. There is absoluely no green anywhere on Duusu. Plus, have we been explicitly told that is the Peacock Miraculous? No.

      Gotta put this after some words so it doesn't make a bullet- *this isn't even a one-to-one comparison, by the way. Felix's ring has more in common with Adrien's ring than the brooch in the book has with the one in the safe. Both Black Cat rings are black, feline-themed rings. All the two brooches have in common is they're both peacock-themed brooches. That's literally it.

      You have to admit there's a glaring error. You cannot just chalk it up to "the book isn't accurate" especially since they're keeping Le Paon's Miraculous concealed.


      Have we been explicitly told that is not the peacock miraculous? No. They even put it in the opening, perhaps they want to mislead us, still that is something to consider.

      If there is even one inconsistency, we must question the images validity, it is not like I do not have reason to question the books accuracy. It is possible the Peacock miraculous has changed since it was lost, perhaps Gabriel has no clue what it actually is.It is also possible the brooch just needs to be cleaned, it has been sitting in Gabriels safe for who know how long (I admit this is a stretch).

      If the black cat ring can change, the peacock brooch should be able to change as well. It would explain why Plagg had not notice it.

      Also might I ask where that image of the peacock page from the book came from?

        Loading editor
    • Yugioh z wrote:

      Have we been explicitly told that is not the peacock miraculous? No. They even put it in the opening, perhaps they want to mislead us, still that is something to consider.

      If there is even one inconsistency, we must question the images validity, it is not like I do not have reason to question the books accuracy. It is possible the Peacock miraculous has changed since it was lost, perhaps Gabriel has no clue what it actually is.It is also possible the brooch just needs to be cleaned, it has been sitting in Gabriels safe for who know how long (I admit this is a stretch).

      If the black cat ring can change, the peacock brooch should be able to change as well. It would explain why Plagg had not notice it.

      Also might I ask where that image of the peacock page from the book came from?

      No, but that's kind of the point. We don't know what the Peacock Miraculous looks like for sure.

      Or maybe we should question the validity of the brooch in the safe, hm?

      Talk about a stretch, did you get that out of a taffy puller? (... is a joke I have wanted to use for years) It's a different shape! Cleaning won't change that.

      Only if the claws aren't an external attachment, you know, a thing that cam be removed so it's identical to the book, and once more, adding or removing claws is a tiny difference compared to a totally different item. It's literally a different object.

      The image is from "The Collector", it's on Gabriel's screen at the end of the episode when he's looking at pictures of the Book.

      Here's the thing: There's a chance the green thing is the Miraculous, but there's a pretty good chance I'm right and it isn't. If I'm right, then it's consistent with everything else we know so far about the Miraculouses.

      If I'm right and the claws are the attachment Cat Noir uses, it sounds like a contradiction becaue Ladybug's is in her yo-yo, but Cat Noir's Cataclysm is from his ring, not his staff.

        Loading editor
    • It seems unlikely that Nathalie is Le Paon.

        Loading editor
    • Well, have you seen the Collector episode? That one gives a lot of hints.

        Loading editor
    • Chaton15 wrote:
      Well, have you seen the Collector episode? That one gives a lot of hints.

      No, it does not. All it does is show Nathalie is in on things. That does NOT make her Le Paon.

        Loading editor
    • I still argue she isnt, but I am not in the mood to have an arguement over it right now.

        Loading editor
    • Yugioh z wrote:
      I still argue she isnt, but I am not in the mood to have an arguement over it right now.

      FINE. It shows she MIGHT know. Happy?

        Loading editor
    • Thearomalady wrote:
      FINE. It shows she MIGHT know. Happy?



      Sorry if I sounded rude, it was never my intent.

        Loading editor
    • Yugioh z wrote:

      Sorry if I sounded rude, it was never my intent.

      You didn't need to add the bit about an argument, that's the bit that came off as rude.

      All "The Collector" does is show Nathalie might be in on things. It doesn't even remotely hint she's Le Paon. We have no hints as to who Le Paon is.

        Loading editor
    • Thearomalady wrote:

      You didn't need to add the bit about an argument, that's the bit that came off as rude.

      All "The Collector" does is show Nathalie might be in on things. It doesn't even remotely hint she's Le Paon. We have no hints as to who Le Paon is.


      Again I am sorry, I wasnt intending to be rude.

        Loading editor
    • Thearomalady, I'm not saying the Collector episode downright announced clearly that Nathalie is Le Paon. I'm simply saying that because she knows Gabriel is Hawk Moth and is very close to him, ( and us knowing Hawk Moth and Le Paon will be a supervillain duo thing) it seems likely. She even has a similar personality to him, though maybe not as secretive. But still, we don't know much about her. And she rarely smiles. She seems like the type to become a villainess, though for reasons unknown to us for now. I'm THINKING it's her, but I'm not saying it's absolutely her. I admit there are plenty of other possibilities, but my guess is Nathalie. You seriously don't have to argue with every opinion I write.

        Loading editor
    • Chaton15 wrote:

      Thearomalady, I'm not saying the Collector episode downright announced clearly that Nathalie is Le Paon. I'm simply saying that because she knows Gabriel is Hawk Moth and is very close to him, ( and us knowing Hawk Moth and Le Paon will be a supervillain duo thing) it seems likely. She even has a similar personality to him, though maybe not as secretive. But still, we don't know much about her. And she rarely smiles. She seems like the type to become a villainess, though for reasons unknown to us for now. I'm THINKING it's her, but I'm not saying it's absolutely her. I admit there are plenty of other possibilities, but my guess is Nathalie. You seriously don't have to argue with every opinion I write.

      I was repeating myself for the person who took issue with the notion that Nathalie definitely is in on Gabriel's secret, since it hasn't been directly stated, not anything you said.

      Considering we have no idea what Le Paon is like, the episode doesn't "provide a lot of hints". It provides precisely one: that Nathalie might be completely in on things. We do not know what Le Paon is like, we do not know how she came to be Hawk Moth's partner/"boss", we do not know why he would fear her, we do not know why she would be more intimidating and worse to deal with than he is. But considering Hawk Moth is afraid of her and she "makes him look like a baby", that would seem to point away from Nathalie, especially if he knows it's her. He could just simply take her Miraculous back and fire her for insubordination. It's not like it would be hard, he has his own Miraculous.

      I'd really like to hear a good, strong case for Nathalie, explaining why Hawk Moth would give her the Miraculous, why he would let himself be intimidated by her, why he would let her boss him around, why he would give her the power to overthrow him. He does not rely on people and he himself says he does not take orders from anyone, even a superhero. Like the person above said, it can't be treated as a fact Nathalie knows because it hasn't been stated, even if it's been very heavily implied.

      Which I should add, when I talked to Astruc on twitter the other day, he made it pretty clear that what you see in the show is pretty much how it is, there isn't a whole lot of reading between the lines to do.

        Loading editor
    • Thearomalady wrote:

      Chaton15 wrote:

      Thearomalady, I'm not saying the Collector episode downright announced clearly that Nathalie is Le Paon. I'm simply saying that because she knows Gabriel is Hawk Moth and is very close to him, ( and us knowing Hawk Moth and Le Paon will be a supervillain duo thing) it seems likely. She even has a similar personality to him, though maybe not as secretive. But still, we don't know much about her. And she rarely smiles. She seems like the type to become a villainess, though for reasons unknown to us for now. I'm THINKING it's her, but I'm not saying it's absolutely her. I admit there are plenty of other possibilities, but my guess is Nathalie. You seriously don't have to argue with every opinion I write.

      I was repeating myself for the person who took issue with the notion that Nathalie definitely is in on Gabriel's secret, since it hasn't been directly stated, not anything you said.

      Considering we have no idea what Le Paon is like, the episode doesn't "provide a lot of hints". It provides precisely one: that Nathalie might be completely in on things. We do not know what Le Paon is like, we do not know how she came to be Hawk Moth's partner/"boss", we do not know why he would fear her, we do not know why she would be more intimidating and worse to deal with than he is. But considering Hawk Moth is afraid of her and she "makes him look like a baby", that would seem to point away from Nathalie, especially if he knows it's her. He could just simply take her Miraculous back and fire her for insubordination. It's not like it would be hard, he has his own Miraculous.

      I'd really like to hear a good, strong case for Nathalie, explaining why Hawk Moth would give her the Miraculous, why he would let himself be intimidated by her, why he would let her boss him around, why he would give her the power to overthrow him. He does not rely on people and he himself says he does not take orders from anyone, even a superhero. Like the person above said, it can't be treated as a fact Nathalie knows because it hasn't been stated, even if it's been very heavily implied.

      Which I should add, when I talked to Astruc on twitter the other day, he made it pretty clear that what you see in the show is pretty much how it is, there isn't a whole lot of reading between the lines to do.

      Exactly.

        Loading editor
    • Chaton15 wrote:

      Exactly.

      What the heck does that mean? I literally just explained that Nathalie can't be Le Paon because her job position and everything does not fit. Meaning she does not have some secret plan to overthrow him or anything, since what you see is pretty much what it is if I was understanding Astruc correctly and his commentary, which was about Chloe being awful and how many akumas Marinette has caused (we are not meant to see her at fault for very many even though it's easy to argue she's mark for mark with Chloe now). Le Paon has to be someone he does not know.

        Loading editor
    • I honestly think we'll find out whether Nathalie is Le Paon when the episode in which she is akumatized occurs. If she willingly is akumatized, she probably isn't Le Paon, but if Gabriel forces her and she shows hints of wanting revenge on Gabriel, then she'll probably do that by stealing the Peacock brooch and blackmailing him into working for her.

        Loading editor
    • something might happen.

      It's called opinion, Thearomalady. I've stated what I think. If you're so against the idea of Nathalie becoming Le Paon, why'd you start this discussion in the first place?

        Loading editor
    • Interesting discussion, but has anyone considered the possibility that Gabriel Agreste/Hawk Moth might actually just ask Nathalie to become Le Paon? Not necessarily by force, though perhaps by manipulation.

      Here's why I'm wondering if this could happen: the entire show so far has centered around Hawk Moth's inability to actually get control of the other Miraculouses due to Ladybug's and Chat Noir's creativity (not to mention his clear lack of awareness of the fact that the Turtle Miraculous has a current wielder and no apparent motivation to pursue possession of the Fox Miraculous). What if Gabriel eventually decides that he needs a partner in order to counter the partnership between Ladybug and Chat Noir? At that point, he'd probably turn to someone close to him, someone who might even have some idea as to what the Miraculous are. This, I think would most likely be either Nathalie or Audrey, on the off chance that Audrey Bourgeois is closer to him than the Mayor or Chloe.

      Focusing on the reasons for Nathalie to be selected: she's evidently someone he trusts to a certain degree and believes is worth keeping around despite her and Adrien's bodyguard's multiple failures to keep Adrien under control. While the theory that Nathalie is some version of Emilie Agreste could play in here, let's assume for the purposes of this thought train that she isn't. Gabriel clearly trusts Nathalie enough to keep her instead of firing her and replacing her with a new, stricter, more controlling secretary who would definitely keep Adrien's leash very tight. While I'm not sure if she knows that he is Le Papillon (while the wiki does say so, there are no sources on that claim and the transcript for The Collector never has her specifically acknowledge it), she may still know about the existence of Miraculous (especially whether the peacock brooch in the safe is actually the Peacock Miraculous). Assuming that that brooch is indeed the Peacock Miraculous, what if Gabriel reveals to Natalie that he is, in fact, Hawk Moth, explains that he has become the supervillain to save/retrieve Emilie Agreste, and asks for Nathalie's help in retrieving the Ladybug and Cat Miraculouses? Specifically, asking her to use her mental organization and management skills as a secretary in conjunction with the Peacock Miraculous to aid him as Le Paon?

      And at that point, we have Le Paon as Le Papillon's "partner." If wielding Duusu changes/morphs Nathalie's persona in the way that wielding Nooroo changes Gabriel's persona, she could easily become a very sharp, very clever supervillain before whom Hawk Moth can only bow in respect. At which point, if she has committed to obtaining the Ladybug and Cat Miraculouses for Hawk Moth, then she could end up essentially telling him how to manipulate situations to most effectively use the akumas and/or unmask Marinette and Adrien. That would explain the interpretation of Le Paon being Le Papillon's "master" as well as the claim by the writers that Le Paon will be so nasty that Le Papillon will "look like a baby in comparison."

      And as far as how he might convince her, if she's not already excited at the idea of wielding a Miraculous and/or of saving Emilie Agreste, he might be able to manipulate her by claiming that it's all for Adrien. Save Emilie Agreste, and she'll save Adrien. I fully expect that Gabriel will soon cross the line between wielding Nooroo just for obtaining the crucial Miraculouses to wielding Nooroo for the sake of the power itself, which is why I can see him potentially needing to manipulate Nathalie into become Le Paon if she does.

        Loading editor
    • Yugioh z
      Yugioh z removed this reply because:
      error in the quote
      17:02, April 2, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Chaton15 wrote:
      something might happen.

      It's called opinion, Thearomalady. I've stated what I think. If you're so against the idea of Nathalie becoming Le Paon, why'd you start this discussion in the first place?

      I think the intent behind this post was to try and end the Natalie is Le Paon theory once and for all. The only problem with that is, there is barely any evidence to 100% prove Le Paons identity, let alone disprove any.

        Loading editor
    • Okay. We've gotten the episode "Mayura." We've seen that Nathalie is Mayura. There is no need for this discussion anymore.

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message