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  • I've been having this theory since day 1. Is Hawk Moths seceret identity Mr.Agreste? They have similar structures, the same voice actor, their eyes are always the same color as the other, and something that no one has possibly noticed. They both have cane that look the same. Tell me what you think!

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    • There are essentially there groups about Hawk Moth's identity.

      The first is that Gabriel Agreste is Hawk Moth. This stems from PV Felix's father being Hawk Moth, the fact that it's a cliche, and the fact that Papapillon said we would know who Hawk Moth is.

      The second is that Mr. Kubdel, Alix's father, is Hawk Moth. Mr. Kubdel actually has more in common with Hawk Moth (such as facial structure and expression) than Gabriel. The only problem is that Mr. Kubdel has a mustache and  Hawk Moth does not.

      The third is fairly new: Nathalie Sancoeur is Hawk Moth. This comes from the theory that Hawk Moth is a shapeshifter. It also stems from Nathalie being closer to Adrien, therefore making the betrayal more harmful.

      Papapillon won't tell us anymore about Hawk Moth's secret identity.

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    • Those three are the most well-known theories, but as far as Hawk Moth goes, I most strongly believe its Gabriel, and many other people have had this theory for ages. Evidence includes things already stated in this forum discussion, along with Gabriel never being around that often. He doesn't even show up among the adults trapped in bubbles in "The Bubbler", which can be seen as pretty suspicious. The similar voices especially seem to indicate that these two are the same, though people can argue that it's purposeful for trying to throw us off.

      WinnyGZ, who works on the show, said in a Twitter post that "[Hawk Moth's] true nature and purpose will change [our] point of view." We don't really know Hawk Moth's motives for wanting the Miraculous, but if he was Gabriel and it does have to do with the disappearance of his wife, we may find more sympathy in his intentions. And we're learning from sources that Gabriel does really love his son and just happens to be overprotective and a failure and showing it to him, so if he's Hawk Moth, perhaps that would explain why he treats Adrien in such a way.

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    • For me personally, I don't think Gabriel is Hawk Moth and if I had to choose someone it would be Mr. Kubdel. It seems more likely to me. We didn't see Mr. Kubdel appear during the Bubbler episode, and his daughter and son both became akumatised at one point, which to me is suspicious given the fact that he upset his son and he convinced Alix to take the watch which eventually lead to them both to become villains. And yes, this facial movements and structure match with Hawk Moth better, heck they both have the same nose.

      The thing is, both Gabriel and Mr. Kubdel, we don't know much about them, like Hawk Moth, so whatever reason they could have for being Hawk Moth is up in the air. Both of their wives are or seem to be missing so that's the only thing they have in common, aside from Mr. Kubdel possibly having the same voice actor as Keith Silverstein. Really anyone that is voiced by Keith is game for this.

      I'm actually one of the only people that thinks we haven't seen Hawk Moth in civilain form yet and that he's yet to be introduced. Which is probably false because of that TF1 pamphlet interview section where Sebastien Thibaudeau says "[they] wrote the ast scene of the series from the start with the revelation of Papillon's identity. In fact, we built the episodes a bit like the film The Sixth Sense: once the truth is revealed, those who followed the series will say: 'Of course! It was there the whole time!'"

      I don't know whether the reveal would be this season or the very last, but is more likely this season. I just don't think we've met the man(or woman b/c of Nathalie and Mama Agreste) behind the mask yet, someone who bears extremely close similarities to Hawk Moth. The whole 'the dad was the villain!' thing doesn't really appeal to me and I don't have strong feelings of it.

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    • Hmmmm......Could it be Adrien's mother? She did disappear for some reason, you know. I think it's either his father or mother. 

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    • Everybody knows that Gabriel wasn't one of the adults trapped in bubbles, but when I was doing screenshots for "The Bubbler" I saw this picture: here we see both the Gorilla and Nathalie (on the left). This actually changed my view on things a bit: obviously now I would exclude Nathalie from the possible candidates as Hawk Moth, but also the fact that we don't see Gabrien in this shot that is presumably taken from the sky on top of his house is really significant. Then obviously it could all be a way to throw us off, but I think this is worth pointing out.
      TB Adults flying
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    • We don't see all of the adults we normally would in that picture. There are millions in Paris. We just don't know enough, but I agree that that picture is one of the fundamental reasons people think Gabriel is Hawk Moth.

      Also, a tumblr user zoomed in on the photo, and that's not Nathalie. There's either something wrong with the hair or the shoes. I can't remember.

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    • I see nothing wrong in the hair and shoes
      TB Nathalie running

      and obviously the picture I posted earlier isn't a proof that Hawk Moth is Gabriel. I only wanted to put the picture I found here because I thought it would fit the discussion. It's pretty cool how nobody can be sure about who's Hawk Moth, huh?

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    • Look, if there are any clues about hawkmoth identity, we have to search for them.Until now, we have body characteristics(voice, a fraction of his face, etc) and quirks of personality(how he talks,what he talks, and what he can do).But first of all we need to see a full body appareance of Gabriel to have sure about somethings.

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    • We get a full body appearance of him in Le Buller. He does not have the same facial structure nor the same facial movement as Hawkmoth. (Just look at his chin.) Besides, we don't get a clear enough picture of Hawkmoth to even determine if they're close to the same size.

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    • Yes, Gabriel COULD be Hawkmoth and I would like it if he was, but there is one tiiiiny problem: the lack of Miraculous. We know that Adrien and Mari wear their own stones all the time but do we ever see Gabriel wear anythig that could turn to that butterfly bow thingy? No we don't. And we do know that the bow is his miraculous. How you ask? Because of the kwami box that we see at the end of the theme song.

      But I have also agree with Princess of Harte: Gabriel's chin really is sharper than Hawkmoth's.

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    • It's very possible that that Butterfly Miraculous has a different appearance when it isn't in use, like how Marinette's earrings are black and Adrien's ring is plain silver. Any character wearing a bow could be wearing the Miraculous. Or, they may just take it off when they're not using it to keep their identity more hidden.

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    • I belive Gabriel is HawkMoth because he seems to be the only adult who is rarely around and doesn't go out much, even during the contest. Yet we never realy hear where he is, we are just left to assume that hes working all the time. Also the fact that he and Hawkmoth have same voice actor, even though that might just be a coincidence. Still out of all the adults he seems the prime suspect for me, with his actions. As for the chin difference, that could just be due to the mask, I mean it could easily be due to how the mask looks.

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    • Tumblr nxtvybOKv11qmo624o1 500

      So look at this

      Look at this...
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    • in regards to the miraculous. It could just be the pearl looking thing in the middle of the bow, which could easily be hidden under Gabriel's cravat or Mr Kubdel's scarf

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    • I 75% sure that Gabriel is Hawkmoth as it makes the most sense in many ways, and the fact they share the same voice in English does help a lot in this theory. But we can't say that its him due to the voice actors being the same person in English but in French I think we can! But I can't find Gabriel's French voice actor listed any where on the web. But if there the same voice actor in France then yeah I well be 100% shure. But I don'y know any I am new here if you can't tell, and sorry if I mis spelled anything. As my laptop is not telling me like it does most of the time, and its late plus I may be dyslexic so sorry.

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    • Okay, adding up lots of my theories on the show, I am quite sure Hawk Moth ISN'T Adrien's father, Gabriel Agreste. I wasted so much time gathering info on various things, including where Hawk Moth's lair is placed (and also deciphering the Pharaoh papyrus and the history book's description of said papyrus, lots of searching and discussion).

      So, having said the physical appearance between Adrien's Papa and Hawk Moth's is a little different, I searched for clues that could bond the two together. Likely, place of operations ("work"). Gabriel is a known fashion designer, and HM has his observatory window closed (until his butterfly senses tingle). That way, can a designer work in complete darkness?

      Next thing, the window in particular. Adrien's house isn't convieniently placed to be sure of this, but it does not have any circular windows the size of the one in Hawk Moth's lair... The petal/butterfly motives in the mansion itself also can't hold up the theory Gabriel 'works' as Hawk Moth.

      So, where could HM have his lair? In the repetitive cutscene of an Akuma flying towards its victim, we see a famous lanmark - The Eiffel Tower - far away in the distance. Adrien's house? Just close to the Eiffel. Possibly Hawk Moth's lair is a kind of observatory, with a nice, open spot for gathering all those butterflies...

      A hint regarding how does the window work is placed in the new, 20th (FR) episode, though it's too new and big of a spoiler that I won't be discussing it here.

      Ergo, HM will be a completely new antagonist, not quite related to Marinette and, which is important, Adrien. I'm saying 'not quite', because the Antibug episode (spoil, not yet aired) was IMO one complete mishmash of the plotholes, like: "How can HM know about the detransformation?"

      Or it would just be #DadPlzFeedMe2k16.

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    • Princess of Harte
      Princess of Harte removed this reply because:
      SPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERS
      00:44, March 2, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Tansyflower
      Tansyflower removed this reply because:
      This is a spoiler for an episode we are avoiding spoilers for until its French release.
      05:11, March 2, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Origin Spoilers:


      Hawkmoth
      Hawkmoth and Gabriel Agreste are most definately the same person. In episode 25:

      Hawkmoth is seen holding a perndant with a photo of a blonde lady in it, before he transforms completely into said villian.

      Later on in the episode, the same woman is seen in a family portrait in the Agreste house, standing beside  Adrien and Gabriel. 
      Dantte

      Does anyone deny that Hawkmoth isn't Gabriel?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNUSUlVWL0c 

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    • The butterfly represents resurrection and life, he uses akuma which are black butterflies, Adrien's mom might've died and everyone says she vanished possibly cause they never found her body so maybe Hawkmoth if he is Gabriel wants to bring her back to life

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    • @Steven This is an Origin Spoiler, plz put it in spoiler.

      And food for thought for those who are spoiled by now: Reviving someone should waste a lot, even magical, energy (as we know, 1 minute a piece, with the exception of Chat Noir worth 6 minutes :3). Why waste a godlike amount of it on such actions??

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    • Sorry ok how do you do the spoiler template

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    • Adrien's mom might've been a good person with the butterfly miraculous, but when she disappeared, Gabriel might've taken a Miracle Stone from her that she could've left behind and is trying to get Ladybug's and Cat Noir's miraculouses so he can attain godlike strength and find his wife again. Also, (major spoiler alert) When Nooroo finds his evil master (whoever the heck he is), a mysterious man opens the Butterfly Miraculous Stone, and inside is a photo of Mrs. Agreste. Obviously, Hawk Moth is someone who originally was related to Mrs. Agreste.

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    • SPOILERS AHEAD! Alright, this entire comment is literally just going to be spoilers for part one of the origin episodes and the Jackady episode since those both happened to have major evidence for Gabriel being Hawkmoth, but i'm new and have no idea how to hide these spoilers so unless someone would like to slowly explain all of it to me since i am very clueless, sorry!!! Tell me how, and I will definitely do it, I just really want to get all of this out ASAP since i just spent a while thinking about it.

      1. In Origins P1, we saw a silhouette of Hawkmoth's human form that PERFECTLY matches up to an outline of Gabriel Agreste's face

      2. In Origins P1, Hawkmoth (as a human) was holding a locket containing a picture of the face of a blonde, green-eyed woman. Later in this episode, a portrait of a similar looking woman can be seen in the Agreste mansion. In Jackady, there is another full-length painting of the same woman. And near the end of Jackady, it is confirmed that the woman in all of these paintings and pictures is, indeed, Adrien's mother (and Gabriel's wife).

      3. In Origins P1, when Hawkmoth (as a human) goes to close the previously mentioned locket, you can perfectly see that there is a simple, silver ring on the middle finger of his left hand. We have never actually seen Gabriel Agreste's left hand until Jackady, where he holds up his hand towards Ladybug. The ring can be seen if you pause the episode while he's dropping his hand.

      4. When Gabriel's reaching towards Ladybug in Jackady, hE'S LITERALLY REACHING FOR HER EARRINGS ("I never noticed your earrings before, they're fascinating. May I?" no, no you may not).

      5. In Jackady, Gabriel is captured by the akumatized villain. After that has happened, we don't see any more of Hawkmoth in the episode.
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    • @Above anon

      If you'd like to add spoilers, you can always use the Hide/Show spoiler template like this:


      x_x


      {{SpoilerButton}}
      {{HideSpoiler|TEXT}}

      Personally I'm in the Gabriel = Hawkmoth camp, and I think his intentions have to do with his wife.

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    • Same here I mean yes he akumatized someone who would've hurt Adrien but who's to say he didn't have the situation under control and would've stopped anyone who would've hurt Adrien


      It'll be heart breaking if Gabriel is Hawkmoth and Adrien overhears him talking to himself about how he'll have the miraculouses soon.

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    • TheFinnishGamer
      TheFinnishGamer removed this reply because:
      Spoiler Button not working. If you want to read it, read it in your E-mail
      22:41, March 8, 2016
      This reply has been removed


    • Also, did you see the way Gabriel just looked at Chat's ring, even he was creeped out a little by it and did you notice that I think last or second to last time we saw HawkMoth he looked like he was just walking into the room?
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    • LaRougeRaven
      LaRougeRaven removed this reply because:
      failing at spoiler button
      23:11, March 9, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Mimirosette
      Mimirosette removed this reply because:
      no
      01:53, March 10, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Mimirosette
      Mimirosette removed this reply because:
      no
      01:56, March 10, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Mimirosette
      Mimirosette removed this reply because:
      no
      01:58, March 10, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Mimirosette
      Mimirosette removed this reply because:
      no
      01:59, March 10, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Are you remembering to do this

      { { SpoilerButton } }

      { { HideSpoiler|Text } }

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    • Can we close the thread now? It's basically an inquiry by now.

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    • How about this, since a few people still want to talk about this how about we make a part 2? You don't even have to be involved in it

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    • That could work. But this thread should close now. Hawk Moth could be Gabriel or a fraternal twin for Gabriel which could explain the differnt facial structures, same voices, and both interested in Ladybug's and Cat Noir's miraculouses.

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    • If you don't want to follow the discussion, you can always click the unfollow button on the first post. :)

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    • Hawk Moth could also be Mr. Kubdel. We just don't know.

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    •  

      {{{1}}}

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    • I wouldn't handle it if the show copped out of it being Gabriel at this point, honestly. There has been a lot of hints, and no one else has gotten as many hints as he has. Characters like Mr. Kubdel haven't appeared as much, and they don't have any indicated motive. Also, I feel like a twin or similar-looking character being Hawk Moth is really cliche and not supported enough within the show. Thomas would've given at least one hint within the show of it being the case if it was I'd hope, but he hasn't.

      For me, I want Gabriel to be Hawk Moth, not because I was expecting a great shocking twist with him, but because I want the emotional story possibilities that come with it. Not every secret identity reveal needs to be super surprising to the audience, but this reveal would be shocking to Adrien, and it would have to have an interesting reason to reveal for Gabriel's actions. I don't think Gabriel is or was purely evil, so I want to know what pushed him this far to try and get Ladybug and Cat Noir's Miraculouses. I can see why people would be disappointed by an obvious reveal, but I think the outcomes of Hawk Moth being Gabriel greatly outweigh the surprise or purpose with an unexpected alter ego.

      I'm sure that anything can be possible for who Hawk Moth is until the show strongly confirms it, but I'm crossing my fingers for Gabriel being Hawk Moth, my hope even stronger after some more hints that came out.

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    • This so much! I hate the "It'd be too cliché and predictable" argument against Gabriel. They've hinted, given him a clear motivation and by making him Hawk Moth developing his character. Mr. Kubdel being Hawk Moth would supply the audience with a gasp for the twist, but he's been on the screen for what, like five total minutes? How does the show or any characters benefit from him being Hawk Moth? Gabriel being Hawk Moth provides development for Adrien (assuming he discovers his dad is the villain he's been fighting the entire time), Gabriel, and opens new plot threads on the wife and the Agreste family in general. Mr. Kubdel provides shock value and nothing more. 

      EDIT:


      Even more so we're slowly learning that Gabriel tries to be a good guy, even if originally he's presented as a terrible person. He let Adrien go to public school for his happiness, and that hug at the end of Jackady (Simon Says) was pretty genuine, and I find the fact that he didn't take down any of the mom paitings interesting as well. I like to think he's so protective over Adrien out of fear that he'd leave like Mrs. Agreste did, but it ended up causing the same feeling of escape on Adrien.
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    • I'm sure Gabriel is Hawk Moth but man it'll be heartbreaking seeing how Adrien reacts to this, will he even want to stay in the same house?

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    • I don't understand what got people into thinking about Mr. Kubdel, like what hints were given? He would seem too random?

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    • His children were extremely powerful akumatized villains, he was a major part of their akumitizations, his blue eyes match Hawk Moth's more than Gabriel's, and his face shape matches more than Gabriel's.

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    • Also, Gabriel is cliché.

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    • Hmm interesting points. This is why I love mysteries, fun to theorize. If it is Mr. Kubdel, I'm hoping they explain him and his motivations in more depth. I personally don't think Gabriel being Hawk Moth would be cliché if the show continues to flesh out his character as they have been. If it's Mr. Kubdel I'd like to understand why


      he'd have a Mrs. Agreste picture and why he'd want to reek havoc on the streets of Paris.
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    • Gah! Apparently my message never worked.


       

      I think it would have to Gabriel, because if you look at Origins 1, the silhouette, the ring on his finger, the photo, there is no way it is not him. With how Adrien's hair grows longer, this might be the same thing with his face shape. And also, listen to what he says in Jackady, he says "The idea is risky, but it gives me an idea. Good luck Jackady." He has never said anything like that before, or even when he asked Jackady "What do you want to do with your army?" He has never questioned his victims before, in this manner, why question why he's going after Gabriel, and as he asked this, you can clearly tell he just walked into the dome room, that is something, Hawkmoth has never done before either. And then you never see him at the end of the episode, cursing revenge. There in no denying it now. This episode just added proof to the identity of Hawkmoth.
      }

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    • I don't see it as being Mr.Kubdel because he has a different voices than Hawk Moth, and by the time his two children were akumatized, he was still doing what ever he was doing what he was doing in the pevious scene and would have had no time to get to the akuma room.

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    • I think so because both characters have a picture of the mom. But hawk moth could also be a relative

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    • Image

      Adrien mom paint

      Dijodjijdjddji

      Hawk moth with painting

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    • It's completely unlikely that Mr.Kubdel is a relative of Hawk Moth or the Agreste family because I have one big piece of evidence. Neither of his children have blonde hair, and Alex could have dyed her hair because pink is not a natural hair color, but for her natural hair color, I see her as being more of a red or brown haired girl.

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    • My theory is that Gabriel and Hawkmoth are the same person but in separate bodies. Queue the backstory...

      Gabriel and his wife, as their equivalent of the Cat Noir and Ladybug persona, are fighting a great villian, but they are seriously outmatched. Gabriel is reckless and the villain is able to serious hurt his wife. She can no longer continue the fight and with the villain closing in to finish them both, she offers Gabriel her earrings so the combined miraculouses will give Gabriel more strength. Gabriel is victorious, but when his wife dies from her injuries, he is so stricken with guilt and grief that he loses his mind and lashes out at the world.

      Master Fu tries to get Gabriel to stop but even he is not strong enough to defeat the combined Miraculouses. He then uses a special power to separate the good and evil in Gabriel from each other, which essentially creates separate Good and Evil Gabriels. Master Fu then teams up with Good Gabriel to defeat Evil Gabriel, take away his miraculous, and banish him.

      Good Gabriel is still very sad about his wife and decides to give up his miraculous as well, and use his final miraculous power to erase all his and the world's memories about his involvement with the miraculouses, so he can live a normal life and care for his son.

      Unfortunately, Evil Gabriel finds a way to escape banishment, and is able to obtain another miraculous. He still fully remembers all the details of the loss of his wife and now thinks he can use the two core miraculouses to bring his wife back. Master Fu senses a great evil has emerged though he doesn't know it is Evil Gabriel. And so he seeks to find another pair of potential heroes to don the two miraculouses. He knows there is danger for the two miraculouses to be so close together as their combined power in the single hands of a clouded individual can lead to corruption. But he has no choice as the miraculouses have always worked in pairs for generations and only as a pair can they have a better chance to defeat evil.

      EDIT:


      My theory takes into account why Gabriel seems to have an interest in Ladybuy's earrings and Adrien's ring, as if a forgotten memory is being stirred. And also explains why Hawkmonth has a picture of Gabriel's wife. Master Fu worries about making the same mistake again, which is introducing another pair of heroes using the same earrings and ring miraculouses as Adrien's parents. As for why Evil Gabriel looks different from Good Gabriel, it's because we only see Evil Gabriel after he transforms. Or maybe he got badly scarred from his last fight and had surgery on his face. Or he is using some power to disguise himself from Master Fu.
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    • Badbob001 wrote:

      My theory is that Gabriel and Hawkmoth are the same person but in separate bodies. Queue the backstory...

      Gabriel and his wife, as their equivalent of the Cat Noir and Ladybug persona, are fighting a great villian, but they are seriously outmatched. Gabriel is reckless and the villain is able to serious hurt his wife. She can no longer continue the fight and with the villain closing in to finish them both, she offers Gabriel her earrings so the combined miraculouses will give Gabriel more strength. Gabriel is victorious, but when his wife dies from her injuries, he is so stricken with guilt and grief that he loses his mind and lashes out at the world.

      Master Fu tries to get Gabriel to stop but even he is not strong enough to defeat the combined Miraculouses. He then uses a special power to separate the good and evil in Gabriel from each other, which essentially creates separate Good and Evil Gabriels. Master Fu then teams up with Good Gabriel to defeat Evil Gabriel, take away his miraculous, and banish him.

      Good Gabriel is still very sad about his wife and decides to give up his miraculous as well, and use his final miraculous power to erase all his and the world's memories about his involvement with the miraculouses, so he can live a normal life and care for his son.

      Unfortunately, Evil Gabriel finds a way to escape banishment, and is able to obtain another miraculous. He still fully remembers all the details of the loss of his wife and now thinks he can use the two core miraculouses to bring his wife back. Master Fu senses a great evil has emerged though he doesn't know it is Evil Gabriel. And so he seeks to find another pair of potential heroes to don the two miraculouses. He knows there is danger for the two miraculouses to be so close together as their combined power in the single hands of a clouded individual can lead to corruption. But he has no choice as the miraculouses have always worked in pairs for generations and only as a pair can they have a better chance to defeat evil.



      Didn't Master Fu say something about history repeating itself (I'm not sure because sometimes the subtitles aren't very good) I don't want it to be like that but at the same time that would be interesting.
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    • Steven Bomb 17 wrote:

      Didn't Master Fu say something about history repeating itself (I'm not sure because sometimes the subtitles aren't very good) I don't want it to be like that but at the same time that would be interesting.


      Yes, I remember Master Fu mentioning that, that is why I wrote at the end about Master Fu knowing about the dangers of the two miraculouses being so close to each other. So maybe Cat Noir and Ladybug will confess their love for each other but then force themselves to be apart due to what happened to Adrien's parents...
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    • My God, French wiki. I know they have the same VA, but wait for a confirmation at least!

      French wiki pic
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    • OH. MY. GOD.
      Hawk Moth reveal French wiki

      I just read the French wiki's description for Hawk Moth and it says:

      "Lors d'une interview, l'auteur du dessin animé a affirmé que l'on fera la découverte du personnage mystérieux qui se cache sous le masque de Papillon au dernier épisode de la saison 1 de la série."

      Which roughly means:

      "In an interview, the cartoon's author said that there will be the reveal of the mysterious character that hides beneath Hawk Moth's mask in the last episode of Season 1".

      Which interview? And what is the last episode? Volpina's? The Origins?


      Because if it's the latter and the interview is true, Gabriel is Hawk Moth no doubt.

      However, what happened in the Origins isn't exactly a reveal.

      So... Will we see Hawk Moth's reveal NEXT EPISODE?!?!?!?!?
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    • NintendoSoul wrote:
      My God, French wiki. I know they have the same VA, but wait for a confirmation at least!
      French wiki pic

      Even if Hawk Moth and Gabriel Agreste are/not the same person, since they are considered two characters, the wikia would've done this anyway. It's efficiency.

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    • Personally, I think Hawk Moth and Gabriel are the same person.

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    • @Nintendo

      Sad they didn't source. I would've watched the interview myself.

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    • Guys! Watch the episode "Volpina"! It is the french dub.

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    • With Volpina, we still don't have the confirmation that he's Hawk Moth. For all we know, he could be the Peacock superhero.

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    • It's unlikely a male would be the holder of a peacock miraculous despite the fact that peacock are male. But a female being the owner of the peacock miracuous makes at least a million times more sense. So let's just say this theory is true and close the thread. Besides the miraculous was behind the portrait. It's kind of like a shrine.

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    • It actually doesn't make any sense given how progressive this show is.

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    • the peacock miraculous could have belonged to his most likely dead wife, while Gabriel most likely has the butterfly miraculous making him Hawsk Moth. However that makes you wonder why doesn't Hawk Moth also wear the Peacock miraculous? Out of respect for his wife. If he takes Ladybug and Cat Noir's miraculous's to bring her back he'll give her the Peacock miraculous back.

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    • I really don't think Adrien's mother is dead. Him stating she is missing in one of the webisodes, I doubt they would add that, just so later they can say she is dead. There is a bigger story I feel that will be told in time, we just don't know yet.

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    • I say that Gabriel Agreste is Hawkmoth because in the very first episode the Origins Part 1 they show a picture of Adrien 's Mom in Hawkmoth 's hand. If thats not enough then Rember in the episode Jackady or Simon Sayz, Gabriel tries to take Ladybug 's miraculous and he gets shocked when he sees Adrien wearing the same ring like Chat Noir.

      Evidence

      The picture of Adrien 's in Hawkmoth 's Hand

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    • Okay, so my theroy is that Gabriel is Hawkmoth but he wants the miraculous because he wants to bring his wife back to life. (I also think his wife is dead) 

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    • In the webisode"Adrien's Double Life," Adrien mentioned she's missing. 

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    • She could be dead which would explain why Gabriel is so cold and distant. He's going through the five stages of grief. I don't know which stage he's in.

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    • No, Mrs Agreste is not dead, Thomas would not have had Adrien state she was missing, if they were just going to later say she's dead. She will probably be a big part of the story in Season 2. 

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    • It might also be that she died but in costume so they had to say she vanished, here's what I think happened




      Gabriel was once HawkMoth, a force of good who used his akuma to make anxiety disappear. He was good friends with the other Miraculous users, Natalie was the previous Ladybug, the previous Chat Noir was Felix, Mrs. Agreste was the previous Peacock and so on, Master Fu was the previous leader of the group. Anyways one day the group fought a powerful enemy, they defeated him but at the cost of most of the Miraculous users including Mrs. Agreste either being badly hurt or killed. Natalie and the survivors turned in their Miraculous to their leader except the Peacock one which Gabriel was allowed to keep. Gabriel wanted to raise the dead with the power the Miraculous Book talked about but Master Fu said no and shooed him off. The next night he broke into the house and stole back his book and his own Miraculous which Master Fu took from him upon sensing his darkness. He looked for Ladybug and Chat Noir's miraculous' but Master Fu hid them somewhere else in the world already.



      The problem with wanting to raise the dead like some think is that the person coming back usually doesn't keep their soul, memories and/or emotions or they just aren't the same which would make sense if Gabriel is HawkMoth and is a greiving husband

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    • The only problem with that...


      If you listen to what they say in Origins 1, he didn't know what Nooroo's power was, which means he just recently aquried it, I believe he had found both Peacock and Butterfly in Tibet. Also when you first see Wayzz he states that he that he felt engery from the Butterfly miraculous, and Master Fu, says he thought it was lost, meaning that Master Fu even lost track of it. Master Fu doesn't know who has the Butterfly, but I think his "mistake" may have been with the Peacock Miraculous. And this if Peacock and Butterfly were around earlier, Paris seems to have forgetten them, becuase they are acting like LB and CN are the first Superheroes they have seen.
      I still stand that Mrs. Agreste is not dead.
      
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    • It really makes sence Gabriel Agreste to be Hawk Moth, because they both have the same voices, they don't like fun and party, they both are really interessed to Chat Noir's ring and Ladybug's earrings, Gabriel has a book in a hidden closet behind a picture of Adrien's mother, Hawk Moth has a bracelet or an amulet or something on his hand with a picture of Mrs. Agreste, but they are not the same person, here is why:

      When Adrien opens the hidden closet, there is the peacok Miraculous, Hawk Moth has the papillon Miraculous- Nuru, so Adrian's dad will take a very important part in season 2.I REALLY HOPE THAT CHAT NOIR AND LADYBUG DISCOVER THEMSELVES!

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    • Magy111 wrote:

      When Adrien opens the hidden closet, there is the peacok Miraculous, Hawk Moth has the papillon Miraculous- Nuru

      or maybe the peacock miraculous belonged to Adrien's mother? I mean, It seems to me he's investigating her disappearance

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    • My theory is that he isn't Gabriel. 

      White butterflies represent good while black butterflies bring bad luck... and uh this is too long.

      User blog:Miraculous-Lilygem/A Ton of Hawk Moth and Other Theories

      That's my whole theory.

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    • Okay, after reading through all the theories about who Hawkmoth could be... 

      Even though most hints as well as the Lastest Origins episode bluntly points toward Mr. Agreste, (for the sake of plot) I want to believe that Gabriel is not Hawkmoth but is in fact the owner of the peacock miraculous. He is an overprotective and absent father- yes, but this doesn’t automatically mean he’s been hiding away and transforming into a villain during his spare time. There was this theory that due to the disappearance of his wife, he could be researching about the miraculous in secret, thus the book, and how he was able to recognize Ladybug’s earrings and Chat Nior’s ring.  

      Mr. Kubdel cannot possibly be Hawkmoth because he doesn't strike as someone relevant enough to either Ladybug or Chat Noir.

      A relative not yet introduced could be Hawkmoth but this would be too obvious once he’s suddenly introduced in season 2.

      So, though pretty farfetched at this point, I'll be pinning my hopes on Natalie… (for the sake of plot.)

      1. Since Hawkmoth has the power to transform people in shape and form based from interest/talent/desire. It could be possible that the Hawkmoth’s current image is nothing but a illusion of her heart (the image of Gabriel Agreste if he were to be more gutsy, selfish, or evil?). So we could ignore that Natalie is a woman or that her facial structure is way off.

      2. Natalie sports the same color scheme as Hawkmoth. Her suit, her eye shape and expressions does show some resemblance.

      3. Exhausted as an assistant, she turns into the head honcho super villain to be her own boss. (Joke)

      4. Natalie cares for Adrien enough and puts up with Gabriel in spite how crappy the job is, giving her connections to Chat Noir at the very least.

      5. As for motives, Natalie may have worked for/with Adriens mother before, thus explaining why Hawkmoth has the woman's picture in a locket. Natalie may have known the Agreste long before Mrs. Agreste's disappearance, and before Gabriel turned sore and distant. She probably wanted the miraculous to bring back Adrien’s mom for both Gabriel and Adrien’s sake. Adrien’s mom could have disappeared due to a mistake she’d made during a miraculous fight.

      Maybe I’m digging too deep on this….  Hawkmoth might really just be Gabriel Agreste.

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    • If you watch the English Dub, It's a huge giveaway. It is Gabriel.

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    • It is definitely Gabriel Agrest. If you watch Simon says, you will see that Gabriel seems very interested in Ladybug and Cat noir's jewels. Plus Gabriel has a book on super heroes. In addition Hawk moth has picture of Adrien's mum. They have the same voice. There is a 50% chance that it is Gabriel.

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    • Yeah... It is Gabriel Agreste. Was just hoping the writers got more creative despite this being a kids show.

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    • more creative? Don't you think plot twists get a bit boring? Sometimes people like being right about their theories.

      And let's be real here, there is so much more potential for good episode plots if Hawk Moth is Gabriel as opposed to someone who doesn't make sense or isn't introduced yet.

      Gabriel being Hawk Moth, while more obvious than others, is so much better than having a huge plot twist just for the sake of having a plot twist.

      And it will still be a plot twist to Marinette and Adrien they find out who Hawk Moth really is and isn't that what matters most?

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    • @Barricorn - Relax. We're all Miraculous fans here, I love the show as much the next fan and am also excited to see Season 2, so I'm not here to start a war. So Chill.

      Was just saying that Gabriel Agrete being Hawkmoth was too obvious. There was nothing subtle about the hints or the reveal. I would like to point out that I'm not saying Miraculous Ladybug isn't creative. Supposedly, as one of the more mature audience who's watching the show, I had hoped for an unexpected surprise, but then were suddenly reminded that this is a kid's show, so what on earth was I expecting?

      Audience of the show end-up being older than it's intended market, so can you really blame us or me for wanting an out of the ordinary but believable plot twist? Have you seen how some fans had actually came up with theories by breaking down every single episode to look for hints and clues as if there was some great mystery to solve? (The city view, the location of the akumas, the timing of miraculous transformation, the meaning behind every miraculous, and so on...) Admittedly, we got too excited, took the show too seriously, and had raised the bar too high. Thus, we got a little disappointed.

      If Gabriel is Hawkmoth then Gabriel is Hawkmoth. It doesn't lessen the value of the show. We're all still excited for Season 2.

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    • The thing that makes me think Gabriel Agreste and Hawk Moth are one in the same more than any of the strong implications at the end of season 1 is things from the 2D advert that show Hawk Moth as just a normal guy with white hair like Gabriel's

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    • Cool theory. It would be quite interesting if Mr. Agreste was Hawk Moth

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    • @Kkornelia

      I am chill

      I'm not starting a war

      I didn't say you called ML uncreative

      do not put words in my mouth.

      If you're sick of things being obvious, then I am equally sick of unnecessary plot twists.

      and finally: this is the internet, people will always disagree with you.

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    • Kkornelia, Barricorn, you both need to chill.

      Kkornealia, there is always the possibility that it's not Gabriel Agreste. We won't know who it is until he is revealed to us.

      Barricorn, you're putting words into Kkornealia's mouth too. Frankly, the spacing in your statement is passive aggressive with the rules of internet English.

      This thread is a discussion over the reasons as to who Hawk Moth could be and why and why not it is Gabriel Agreste. There is no need to get angry at each other nor bash the show.

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    • Barricorn
      Barricorn removed this reply because:
      Was asking a question but I figured it out
      04:00, April 27, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Here's my opinion, he isn't. Most of us who knows Thomas Astruc's personality will know that he absolutely hates answering to spoiler-ish questions so he answers in a trollful yet smart way, to avoid getting fans upset or something. So it COULDN'T be that simple that Gab (yah im calling him that) is HM (short for Hawkmoth), cus' that'll just defeat the purpose of the show from being his image of a "plot twistful and exciting romance and action" show, I know most of you are against us people who believes that he isn't, cus' of these reasons;

      1)same voice actor-

      okay so lemme prove ya very wrong for using this as one of yor reasons on why he'sthe same person. Albeit the fact that two characters have the same VA DOESNT mean theyre the same person, take Spongebob for example, is he secretly the Ice King?! (gasp!), but srsly, thats my point. Even if you tell me theyre not from the same show so it doesnt count, No. It's like saying Spongebob is the Ice King or Sumo from the Clarence show. So No to that reason.


      2) facial structure-

      eah.....how can i explain this..?oh yah, lemme put it simple, many people may have the same facial structures, just cus two people who have the same facial structures doesnt automatically make them the same person, try twins for example, is dipper mabel? is ford stanley? of coz' not. So my theory is that, this is simply the same as the Gravity Falls theory about the twins thing. (Now dont bash on me for this, its just a theory, cus I'm 99% sure that both men tried to win Mrs agreste's heart but one miserably failed so ..all that vengeance , revenge and disappearance of the lady stuff happened, thus the show).


      3)Mrs Agreste's picture in most portraits of the agreste mansion and hawkmoths brooch-

      yah about that, i aint gonna explain that again, so ..pls just check the final sentences of the previous number :P


      so you guys cant use these 3 reasons on me saying that Gab is HM, cus' please. I for one, dont take the bait so easily. Like that time when most of you believed that Mr muggucket was the author of the journals just cus of the many "hints" and the fake image of him writing on the journals and with the cast and stuff bla bla bla. He wasnt. And how about that time when most of you still wont accept the fact that Garnet is a fusion? heres what supported MY theory of her being a fusion: her regeneration. Basically, this is just asking "which gem will she reatreat to when she poofs?" simple.both. cus shes more than one gem. Yet you guys still believed that she was an only gem, and same thing goes for the author of the journals biz, I obeserved and re watched all the episodes that could be connected to the author of the journaLS and finally it all clicked: what if STAN had a twin like dippy and mabel? it was right in front of us all along and yet most of you couldnt figure it out and even went as far as to point out other minor or recurring characters saying that maybe THEY wrote the journals.No. yet most of you didnt believe me when i told you my opinionson obth theories, but i ended up right as always. So yah. *drops mic*

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    • Hmmmmmm.......I think there is a 70% chance that Gabriel is Hawkmoth. I have asked some of my friends and all of them said it was Gabriel. In Simon says when no one is in the room gabriel looks at the portrait of Mrs. Agreste where he has a safe hidden behind it. Why was Hawkmoth trying to stop Simon says from reaching Gabriel? After Gabriel was caught by Simon says, Hawkmoth did not reappear for the rest of the episode.

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    • because Hawkmoth needed to use the bathroom (villains are human too)

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    • what about after the bathroom trip

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    • he took a nap or went to buy stuff from the grocery

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    • Lol loving this thread

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    • wait if he took a nap he would still be in a bubble too ( same as buying stuff from the grocery)

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    • Yes, I also think Mr. Agreste is Hawkmoth, though where would his lair be? Mr. Agreste would have to switch constantly between buildings unless the lair is in their manor, which may be true; as  we've seen so far, there are definitely secrets in the manor, like the compartment behind the painting of Mrs. Agreste. And of course, we all saw Hawkmoth before his transformation look at a picture of Mrs. Agreste, heavily hinting that she is his wife, thus leading me to belive that he is Mr. Agreste.

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    • And of course, we all saw Hawkmoth before his transformation look at a picture of Mrs. Agreste, heavily hinting that she is his wife, thus leading me to belive that he is Mr. Agreste.

      Or maybe we are having a similar situation as there was in Danny Phantom series between Jack and Vlad, Hawkmoth being a bitter friend/brother/rival who is trying to bring his (possibly) dead love of life back.

      Or maybe Hawkmoth is Adrien's uncle from his mother's side...

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    • Hawk Moth has a picture of Adrien's mom.

      Hawk Moth and Adrien's dad have the same voice actor.

      Hawk Moth and Adrien's dad have the same head shape.

      Adrien's dad seem REALLY interested in Marinette's earrings. Just like Hawk Moth.

      Adrien's dad was also surprised about Adrien's ring.

      GUYS, Adrien's dad KNOWS  that Marinette and Adrien have Miracolouses. He is the one and only Hawk Moth.

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    • The biggest plot twist would be if Hawk Moth was actually Adrien's father's twin...

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    • A fun theory to mess around with: Hawkmoth and Gabriel Agreste were highschool friends and holders of the butterfly and peacock miraculous respectively. They were inseperable until Adrien's mum came into the picture, and they both loved her. She chose Gabriel in the end, and this made Hawkmoth furious.

      In a battle for Adrien's mum, she disappeared or died, leaving Gabriel to hate the miraculous and what they had led to, abandoning his own. To this day, Hawkmoth wishes to avenge himself against Gabriel and find Adrien's mum to love her, but he needs the ladybug and black cat miraculous to do it.

      Gabriel was interested in the earings and the ring because he knew about the miraculous and what sort of form they came in, and he worried his son would go down a similar path. He was interested because he cares.


      There is literally no evidence to support this theory, but I feel like its more emotional. I'd love it to be true even though I know it won't be.

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    • The theory about the battle of Mrs. Agreste and Gabriel and someone else being ex-holders of miraculous IS REALLY COOL *-* See, why does Gabriel has the peacock miraculous? He has that and, fr, he never knew how it worked? 

      OR MAYBE ~this one came up now, lol~ MRS. AGRESTE WAS THE LAST HOLDER OF THE PEACOCK MIRACULOUS! That would explain why her picture is behind it and why she "disappeared" (she died as a super-hero and she couldn't reveal her identity even on her death).



      But with all the theories around there, i still think HM is Gabriel and that's not cliche, guys... I guess the THING about Gabriel maybe being Hawkmoth is not that Adrien would feel sad and thing, but that he would try to understand his father (as the sweet and altruist person Adrien is lol) and then Gabriel would explain about the plan on trying to bring his mom back AND THAT'S WHERE THE TROUBLE STARTS! Adrien would be divided between betraying Ladybug and getting her Miraculous to bring his mom back and to betray his own father trying to get him away from the butterfly miraculous and make the world safe (woaaah)!



      That's why i think that Gabriel being Hawkmoth is not a impossible thing (neither cliche). If the story started to get THIS as a plot at some point, it would be awesome tbh. The proofs are there, maybe it CAN be deceiving us from the real thing, but that's not likely to be true (i guess).

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    • What if hawkmoth is Adrien's mom 😯

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    • The amount of people who believe Hawkmoth is Gabriel does take the shock out of it. That's what makes this theory so alive and so mysterious. But maybe, just maybe, we're focusing on the wrong thing. If we just all stopped and believed Gabriel is Hawkmoth for a minute ... then what? What happens next? Gabriel is Hawkmoth, and now ... BLANK!

      We have no idea what will happen next! How will Adrien react? How will Chat Noir react? How will Marinette react, because she gushes in the Origins about how Gabriel Agreste is favourite fashion designer? Where will the plot go from here? Why is he doing all this? Does it involve Adrien's mother? Is Adrien's mother even dead? Will Adrien side with his father who is all the family he has left or Ladybug who he loves more than anyone? 

      I think the most exciting thing here should be that even if Hawkmoth does turn out to be Gabriel, while it may not be surprising for us, we still have no idea in which direction the plot will go. There are so many options and pathways open after this. The whole situation is ridiculously cliche - the father of the hero is the bad guy (Chursh, chursh. "Adrien ... I am your father ..."). But that does not mean this isn't going to be interesting. I am really excited for it! I don't mind if this is a big reveal or not.

      But then again, the characters don't know. Marinette/Ladybug and Adrien/Chat Noir haven't seen what we have, and have no reason to suspect Gabriel as being Hawkmoth. They've never even seen the real Hawkmoth. It still can be a big reveal, because it will be for them, and in the end they're the only ones that really matter. 

      I guess what I'm saying is ... I need season 2. I really need season 2.

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    • Hawkmoth is Gabriel Agreste, personally the show was giving us hints to that.

      I know it's cliche for a Hero's father to be the villain, but if Miraculous Ladybug does it right the reactions of Marinette/Ladybug and Adrien/Chat Noir might be ones of betrayal, maybe even leading to one of them being akumatized, and that might be Adrien, he would be the one most surprised, angered, and he will feel betrayed.

      So when Season 2 rolls around, I hope that a reveal, or Adrien finds something that hints Gabriel's Hawkmoth, or even a face off, and Hawkmoth detransforms in the face off revealing Gabriel. Personally I can't wait for season 2, there are so many possibilities.

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    • I agree with @JustAGirlCalledMe and @SabineOfTheForce and @ChaddyBug. Basically Gabriel is pretty much definitely Hawkmoth and the most interesting or cliff hangery or revealish part is all the questions them finding out who Hawkmoth is will throw up. And also that we all need Season 2 before next year. (Or at least before the end of next year.) Hopefully they will answer the questions that we all have in Season 2. I mean they might make us wait till Season 3. Or maybe even the other Seasons that might be happening. I'm super excited that there might be like 6 seasons but that also makes me think, how long can they drag out the reveal of hawkmoth, the reveal of themselves and the pumping up of the love square? The more seasons there is the longer its most likely to take to find out all the answers. But yeah I'm super happy and excited about there maybe being more seasons and season 2. And also season 3 hopefully coming out the same year as season 2 so we won't have to wait too long. And least for that season.

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    • I say they are the same cuz like i said he tried to take Ladybug`s earings just before Chat Noir`s call came and  when Chat Noir and Gabriel Agreste were shaking hands he held Chat Noir`s hand and stared at his ring and made the curious face. And that he was shocked when he saw Adrien wearing the same ring as our hero Chat Noir

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    • I agree I only found out on episode 25 'origins' because Hawk moth was seen with a locket with a picture Adrian's mum. I think he wants the Ladybugs and Chat Noir miraculous to revive his wife. Also Gabriel Agreste is seen trying to grab ladybugs earings and looking at Chat Noir's ring, also he has that book, and the peacock miraculous.

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    • LunaAnonymous i agree with ya

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    • (∩⚆ᴥ⚆)⊃━☆゚

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    • @LunaAnonymous and @AmnaKakahel It's a common theory. It's assumable that the reason Hawkmoth, whether he's Gabriel or not, wants the miraculous to somehow bring back Adrien's mother. It's never officially said that she's dead though. Even in the webisodes, Adrien merely states that she "disappeared". That could be a distraught boy refusing to admit his mother is dead, or it could be that she did just vanish one day and is presumed dead. Whatever the actual conclusion is, Hawkmoth very clearly wants her back, and its obvious that she's the true reason he wants the miraculous, not to take over Paris and the world.

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    • I'm on the Gabriel = HM train. 

      But i'm not denying that it might be another person too. Because what's more dramatic than HM/Someone else having a crush on Adrien's mom and wanting her for himself to have her suddenly disappear? But if Gabriel = HM, it makes it even more sadder, he's trying to find his wife, blinded by love and sorrows, and more story potential to expand through.. don;t y'all think?

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    • I think Gabriel is Hawkmoth; same voice, personality, face structure... He also shows acute interest in Ladybug and Chat Noir's Miraculouses. As for the Peacock Miraculous, I'm pretty sure it belongs to Mrs. Agreste--it is next to a pocture of her, and her color scheme resembles that of a peafowl's. In addition, the painting of her has an "eye' pattern, something iconic and symbolical of a peafowl's feathers. Also, we saw that Hawkmoth has a picture of Mrs. Agreste on a ring, and chances are, this is because she is his wife and he deeply misses her. He could be planning to use the Miraculouses to bring her back... Or maybe we'll see Mrs. Agreste in Shanghai?

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    • The bits about the voice actor and face structure so I'm gonna talk about a particular episode. I think the episode Simon Says is very telling. Simon wants to get at Gabriel Agreste. Hawk Moth says its risky but gives him an idea. I'm assuming the risk is his own villian coming after him. Then when he sees Lady Bug he makes an attempt to take off her earrings. He plays it as if He only wants to look at them but I think he had other motives. Hawk Moth only appears in scenes that Mr Agreste is left alone, Chat Noir even directs him to the atrium at one point. Hawk Moth doesn't appear again in the episode after Agreste is hypnotised. When he shakes hands with Chat he makes as if he might take off the ring but decides against it. It could even be argued that the hug he gives Adrian is to look for a ring as it's implied several times that he suspects Adrian is Chat. I mean I'd like to think it was a genuine hug, but everything he does seems to be very calculated. There is a posiblity that the writers make him shady to throw us off but somehow I doubt that. This show has been more straightforward with several things already. They didn't have to let us know Chat's identy right off after all. Anyway this is just my thoery so it can be taken with a grain of salt until we see what happens later in the show.
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    • I feel it is Adrien's father who is Hawkmoth because as in Ladybug and Chat Noir (Origins Part 1), he has a locket with a picture of Adrien's mother in it. Adrien also mentioned that his father hadn't been the same since Adrien's mother died. This could be a result of her dying. (as said before) but yeah.

      Screen Shot 2016-06-12 at 6.16.48 PM

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    • I think Gabriel Agrest is Hawk Moth/Papillion. Basically. More or less. With a twist, somehow.

      Why?

      1. As far as I can determine, both Agrest and HM/P are played by the same actor in every language translation. If someone knows of a specific translation where this is factually untrue, please enlighten me. If not, that very fact being of crucial importance in the voice casting of every single country is pointing a big finger.

      2, It is pretty obvious from "The Bubbler" that this suspicion is meant to be planted very early in the viewers' minds. There are really NO clues planted anywhere else for diversionary reasons, or to make it a "multiple choice" guessing game. It would be a vast cheat for viewers if it turned out to be some character not yet introduced in the show.

      3. Then there is the PIXIE GIRL theory (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr8Corg3WZ8 ) -- she looks just like a young version of Adrien's mother/Gabriel's wife. Those wings? Just a little bit TOO uncannily similar to the miraculous seen in Master Fu's box. Yes, the creators denied, denied, denied, on Twitter, but what ELSE are they gonna do? News of the series gets out, people already put 2 + 2 together and figure it out, what are the creators going to say? "You got us! You guys figured it out already?! We have some smart fans out there!" No, of course not. They have to DENY so as not to spoil the story for everyone else.

      That said, there will be a twist. Badbob001 has the gist of the right idea, but his theory is a little TOO detailed in its convolutions... it reads like good fanfic. There's no specific evidence for his speculations, but he's barking up the right tree, anyway. It's something like that. Gabriel either isn't quite aware that he's Hawk Moth when he's Gabriel, or he's a literal split personality, with the original being split into two halves of the same person that can exist in 2 different places at once -- some of those scene cuts between Agrest and HM are a little too quick for him to get to his Moth Lair (or whatever) from the Agrest home. Plus he puts himself in the dubious position of being hypnotized by his own Akumatized agent in "Simon Says"/"Jackady", which he would never do if he was aware of his alter ego.


      HOW I GOT HERE >>>>>>

      I was in Target less than two weeks ago and saw the Shout Factory DVD released back in May. It was $10, and I'd remembered seeing these pics of something called Miraculous coming out as a comic book series and a graphic novel/trade paperback from Action Lab (which I immediatedly pre-ordered at my comic shop after seeing the show). The pictures of the characters from the comic had looked good and intrigued me. I took a chance on the DVD for ten bucks, and after watching the 7 episodes on the DVD, became absolutely obsessed with seeing the rest of the episodes (which I was able to find on the internet) from Season 1 (and of course I'm still planning on buying all the Shout Factory DVD releases when they come out). I TRULY LOVE THIS SHOW!! I can't wait for the toys from Bandai! And I don't normally go crazy for supehero shows... the last ones I got excited about were TIGER AND BUNNY (not sure if it aired anywhere in the U.S) and before that BEN 10 (and it's sequels). MIRACULOUS is "Simply the best! Up to the test!"

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    • If Gabriel Agreste is truly Hawkmoth/ Papillion it does explainvery much about him and parallels between the two such as voice actor, Mama Agreste photo, visual similarities, etc but it also doesn't explain many other things and arises my concern for his mental health, in simon says he is nearly killed by the villian of the same name when he is made to believe he is a plane who would then fall off of the kids+ station (a building which is a tall skyscraper nonetheless and falling off would result in certian death) which shows how he will put his own life at risk to get ladybug and Chat Noir's miraculouses. Just the entire episode of Simon says can easily prove or disprove how Hawkmoth is Gabriel, such as Hawkmoth unforseen absence for most of the episode, lack of a rant after defeat, how easily he was able to notice both miraculouses This episode was able to show how desperate he wanted/ needed both miraculouses based on the measures he was willing to go to the point where he put his own life at risk .In Volpina we saw that he was holding both the peacock miraculous and the miraculous book and could likely decipher the code something only a miraculous holder or a crazed fan (Alya and Chloe) could do and i doubt that Gabriel is a ladybug fan. His occupation is also an exellent cover for his lack of presence, as a world renowned desigener he can easily say he has a shoot in tibet (hence the plane ticket) while he is really off doing Hawkmoth things. Hawkmoth is also new to the villian world and based on pictures of Mama Agrese and baby cinnamon roll Adrien it is pretty clear that she dissappeared recently, possibly even a bit before Gabriel found Norroo. It can also explain Gabriels demenour. Adrien said that when his mom left his father was a changed man, something turning into a cold-hearted villian would do. Gabriel could have found Norroo as something that Mama Agreste left behind, after finding said miraculous and realizing that it's powers were more useful than the powers of his own for his cause he would abandon the peacock miraculous in favor of the butterfly. Hawkmoth as Gabriel not only connects parallels but is hinted at too much and i doubt that Hawkdaddy wants to just fuck with our minds and make us crazy conspiracy theorists.

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    • Hawkmoth seems to know more about what's going on than Gabriel does. When Simon Says/Jackady threatens Gabriel Agrest, Hawkmoth, observing from afar, says "...It's *risky*, but it's given me an idea..."

      When Simon Says/Jackady hypnotizes Gabriel, he doesn't make him believe he's a plane, or even a bird. "SIMON SAYS... you are a *butterfly*" It's probably even more obvious in the French version, where Hawkmoth's name is Papillion, which is "butterfly" in French. My theory is that Gabriel isn't aware that he's Hawkmoth, he has a multiple personality disorder, OR he's actually been split into two beings, one light, one dark. Hawkmoth is willing to risk the danger Simon Says represents to his alter ego because he's depending on Ladybug and Chat Noir to protect him... and more importantly, to give Simon Says and opportunity to collect their miraculouses.

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    • Obviously like many other people I'm posting on this thread because I'm trying to work out if HM is Gabriel Agreste. Everything so far makes sense that it would be him except for the Simon Says episode. If Gabriel was really HM, why would he have created Simon Says knowing that he would be the person Simon was coming for. It would be putting himself in direct danger and as we saw, he almost jumped off the roof thinking he was a plane. If he was really HM, surely he would never have allowed himself to be hypnotised seeing as he is the one who controlls the villains anyway.

      Unless there's something crutial I'm missing here that someone can explain to me?

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    • I don't think Gabriel Agrest is aware that he IS Hawk Moth -- but the reverse isn't the case. In some manner that has yet to be explained, I believe that Gabriel Agrest is some sort of schizoid or multiple personality – or that Hawk Moth is a creation of his mind, driven by obsession and dark thoughts. Perhaps even an avatar or shadow self, separated from his body when he first used his miraculous in a way that it was never intended, for evil purposes. It’s also possible that Hawk Moth has no physical being at all, and exists only in the dark, compartmentalized portion of Gabriel Agrest’s mind. He may have created a mental image of this dark persona of himself, who looks out over Paris from a secret lair that doesn’t even exist in the real world. His are the dark powers of the mind, to sense and seek out negative emotions in the minds of others, into which he projects a mental image of himself, in hopes of corrupting them as his agents to gain possession of Ladybug and Cat Noir’s miraculouses. It would explain a great deal about why he never appears in person, and can only act through intermediaries.

      When we saw Gabriel Agrest in Origins Part 1, he was standing in shadow, speaking with the kwami Nooroo. NooRoo calls him ‘master’, so we know he controls the butterfly miraculous at this time. It is definitely him, as his darkened silhouette matches Gabriel’s precisely (foreshadowing the birth of the Hawk Moth persona). It’s proven as we see him holding the locket with a picture of his absent wife. At this moment, he has yet to become Hawk Moth.

      When Simon Says threatened to revenge himself on Agrest, Hawk Moth, observing this, muses "...It's risky, but it's given me an idea..." The risk would be in Simon Says hypnotizing his alter ego, but the idea would be to bring Ladybug and Cat Noir closer to protect him from Simon, and in the process, get a chance at grabbing their miraculouses, his ultimate goal, which outweighs even the danger to himself Simon Says poses. He lost that calculated risk, and the fact that Agrest behaves so comically when he's hypnotized into thinking he's a butterfly (papillion) seems to argue that Agrest somehow is unaware that he's HawkMoth.

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    • @Randomuser Namegenerator That has got to be one of the most igenuious, in depth and absolutely mind blowing theories about Hawkmoth that I have heard yet. Gabriel has skitzophrenia/multiple personality disorder? That's quite insanely genuis. 

      I actually don't know what to make of this ... and I'm that one girl that never shuts up.

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    • I forgot to add that having used his miraculous in a way unintended by its makers may have resulted in HawkMoth becoming a distinct personality, but somehow imprisoned (despite his mental powers, and the ability to generate the inky black force that will "evilize" his chosen pawns at their moment of greatest weakness) with no physical presence himself, within Gabriel’s mind.

      Why does he so single-mindedly pursue acquiring the Ladybug and Cat Noir miraculouses? Only by combining their power with his own miraculous might he be able to gain dominance of Gabriel Agrest’s personality and assume control of his body for himself, finally giving himself physical form and allowing him to carry out whatever purpose (something to do with his missing wife) his dark obsession or desire for vengeance caused him to come into existence in the first place.

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    • Here is how I see Gabriel Agrest’s history. In the past, he himself was a superhero – very likely, the possessor of the peacock miraculous (seen hidden behind his missing wife’s portrait). But then one day, something BAD happened. He made a bad decision or chose wrongly, and as a result, he lost the love of his life. It’s likely that Madame Agrest was herself the possessor of a miraculous, the butterfly miraculous. (Or it may have been the other way around, but somehow I feel as though Gabriel Agrest has not himself used the butterfly miraculous as a hero prior to when we see him in Origins.) As a result of his actions, Madame Agrest either died or left him forever, but whatever happened, she left her miraculous behind, and it passed into his possession.

      After this life-changing event, Gabriel gives up the life of hero. He doesn’t believe in heroes anymore. Without the love of his life, he more and more turns to brooding on dark thoughts, his obsession with his missing wife, and turning the power of the miraculous to evil ends. This brings us to the point where we see him in Origins Part 1, speaking to NooRoo.

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    • The more time I spend thinking about this theory of how (and why) Gabriel Agrest became Hawk Moth, the more additional bits of data I can remember from the episodes that seem to support it.

      1) Why is Monsieur Agrest so emotionally distant from his son, yet at the same time overprotective of him? As we saw in the earliest episodes, he doesn’t want his son to go to school with the other kids – he wants to keep him close at home, under his watchful eye. It seems like Monsieur Agrest believes the outside world to be a dangerous place. If he had been a superhero himself in a previous phase of his life, he would have seen a lot of that danger first-hand. And if the dangerous things out there in the world are responsible for taking his wife away from him, then he’d want to insulate and isolate himself and his family from that world, to protect Adrien from danger. Did you ever notice how Monsieur Agrest never seems to leave his home? He appears on video screens when he needs to be somewhere else. Agrest failed once to protect his wife -- he will not fail again, to protect his son and himself.

      2) In the theme song to MIRACULOUS, it talks about “the power of love, so strong”. Monsieur Agrest doesn’t believe in it any longer. His love for his wife was not strong enough to save her, and he will never trust it again. Love is not strong, it is weak. The only power strong enough to combat darkness is more darkness… darkness and raw power. Power is what gives people control over the world, not love. The darkness now dwells within himself in the persona of Hawk Moth. He will never love again, never be weak again. He remains emotionally distant from Adrien because Adrien reminds him, with his blond hair and green eyes, of his dead wife, the woman that love failed to save, because he wasn’t strong enough.

      3) As we saw in “Simon Says”, the Agrest mansion is a virtual fortress. At the press of a button, thick steel panels drop down to fortify the walls from any possible outside attack. Now, it is true that Gabriel Agrest is a well-known celebrity and a wealthy man – but isn’t this overkill for protection against home invasion by thieves who may want to purloin his money or other valuables? Yes, it is. In actuality, what Gabriel fears is more in the nature of a personal attack. The strength of those walls is meant to protect him from SUPERPOWERED enemies. Whether he fears discovery of his Hawk Moth persona by superheroes, or possible retaliation from old supervillain enemies made during the time before his wife’s death when he himself was a superhero, is an interesting question. It gives rise to the thought that there may be an even MORE powerful evil than Hawk Moth out there in the world, perhaps the very evil responsible for taking his wife from him. If Agrest became convinced that only evil was strong enough to oppose evil, like fighting fire with fire, then his quest for the two miraculouses and the ultimate power they bestow may be his way of insuring that in any contest between two such dark forces, he would be the guaranteed victor.

      4) Let’s consider for a moment, the people that Hawk Moth “evilizes”. They fit a certain profile, have certain things in common. Why doesn’t he just find the lowest of the lowlifes, the murderers and scumbags of Paris and ‘evilize’ them? But he doesn’t – instead, he chooses his agents from among ordinary people, those who are feeling emotional pain and inner turmoil. They feel that the world is a dangerous and unfair place, and that the world has made them a victim because they somehow weren’t strong enough to deal with it. The hurt that they’re feeling makes them want to lash out, and hurt the world back, the way they’ve been hurt. In fact, this is the exact same emotional state that Gabriel Agrest himself has felt, that led to the creation of Hawk Moth from the depths of his psyche in the first place. All these people are lacking is power, to give in to these dark emotions, and Hawk Moth grants them that. Hawk Moth believes that power is what puts people in control and gives them the upper hand against the world, not love.

      5) Gabriel Agrest is a well-known and celebrated fashion designer. I believe he was formerly the superhero master of the peacock miraculous, because what better parallel or symbolism could one find in a career than a male fashion designer for the peacock, the male of the bird species well-known for its elaborate and beautiful plumage?

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    • Reasonable to me! :) 

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    • You've obviously thought through this very thoroughly. I'm thinking through this myself to find any contradictions, but I have yet to stumble across any. 

      It would certainly make things interesting and very sad. A reveal like this would be agonising for the whole crew, particularly Adrien. Really though, Adrien finding out that his father was a superhero who became a supervillain after losing the love of his life and only locked himself and his son up because he was scared of losing more people even though Adrien became a superhero like he was in the first place and never wanted to be again? Damn ... 

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    • I think Hawk Moth could be a relative to Gabriel, like a brother or cousin, of about the same age, and who also happens to love Adrien's mom. Think of it, using his powers he causes her to disappear under mysterious cirumstances, which debastes both and decides to hold onto his emotions against his own blood to become Hawk Moth. Once Gabriel finds out, he becomes so sad that he can be akumatized, and Hawk Moth seizes the opportunity to have him under his service, while also trying to akumatize Adrien; but he is a little harder as he did not fell into depression as much as his dad did because he could overcome it relatively well or was too young to truly know what the situation was, and now tries to keep his mood down by "imprisoning" him in his house. Until he decides that leaving him outside could find a disappointment big enough to akumatize him.

      Why would Hawk Moth keep akumatized Gabriel for so long? Well, he could be a screen to keep him informed or to get a hold of the Miraculouses undercover of someone who apparently hasn't been akumatized.

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    • Honestly, I would hate to see them go with the "evil twin" explanation - and it would have to be an identical twin or identical cousin, or at least a brother that so closely resembles Gabriel in physical appearance and voice that he could be mistaken for him, because the shadowy figure holding the locket with Madame Agrest's picture is clearly identifiable as Gabriel. That just seems like such a cheat, to introduce a previously-unknown character into the mystery, and so trite.

      And if Gabriel ISN'T HawkMoth but was somehow akumatized, then why doesnt his appearance change and why doesn't he have powers, if he's essentially a slave to HawkMoth's will?  Besides, it doesn't really seem to work that way. HawkMoth's akumatized agents still maintain their own free will, and they have to AGREE of their own free will to a bargain with HawkMoth in exchange for the power he gives them. That's why HawkMoth needs to continually goad them remotely by saying things like "His miraculous!  Grab it NOW!!" -- and frequently they ignore his instructions, in favor of doing something else.

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    • i would ignore Hawkmotgh too, i have no beef with ladybug and if Gabriel is Hawkmoth he is dedicated af as eveidenced in Simonsayz

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    • Axonka123 wrote:
      Tumblr nxtvybOKv11qmo624o1 500

      So look at this

      Look at this...

      HOWEVER, it seems HAWK MOTH is wearing a MASK!

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    • it's a bit more than a mask.

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    • {SPOILERS}


      Why I think Gabriel Agreste is Hawkmoth:

      1)The whole "He wants to find his wife/ she was the peafowl miraculous holder/ stuff" thing. I mean, it makes sense! (If you don't now what I'm talking about, check out other people's comments for more in depth)

      2) In the beginning of the origins episode, Hawkmoth has a silver ring on the middle finger of his left hand.

      In Simon Says, Mr. Agreste has the same ring on his same hand on the same finger.

      Coincidence? Unlikely.

      File:OR1 lq (16).png
      Ring2









      3)The book in the beginning of the origins episode is the same one that Adrien found in his father's secret safe.



      File:OR1 lq (11).png


      And as a side note, some people say Gabriel can't be Hawkmoth because their facial structure is off... But it's possible that the transformation does that. Think about it. When Adrien becomes Chat Noir, his regular ears are replaced with cat ears, which must change the entire anatomy of his head! (I think...) Soo...

      That's why I think Mr. Agreste is Hawkmoth! :-D

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    • Adrien as Cat Noir does have human ears actually, however his pupils and sclera do change (in addition to hair growth), so it's definitely possible Gabriel's facial structure as Hawk Moth  is changed.

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    • The only part I disagree with about Madame Agrest is that she was the holder of the peahen miraculous. I think she was the former holder of the butterfly miraculous, and Gabriel was the former holder of the peacock miraculous. His old miraculous has since been retired to a shrine, along with Madame Agrest's picture. After the events that led to Madame Agrest's death or disappeance, Gabriel took over her butterfly miraculous, and eventually became Hawk Moth.

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    • I should explain my reasoning a little bit for why Gabriel Agrest exchanged the peacock miraculous for the butterfly miraculous. I don't think the miraculous gives the exact same powers to each user, especially that it gives a slightly different set of powers and appearance to a female user than it does to a male user, in the same way that the peacock and the peahen have different appearances, even though they are the male and female examples of the same animal species.

      People like to point to Madame Agrest's dress in her portrait as supporting proof of the theory that she was the holder of the peahen miraculous, but that beautiful dress pattern doesn't reflect the appearance of the peaHEN. It's the PEACOCK that has the ornate display of plumage, while the peahen is rather plain in appearance. Moths are rather plain in appearance too, compared to butterflies which usually have more ornate designs and coloration of their wings. A lot of moths just have a single color with no patterns at all. That dress design of Madame Agrest's could represent the ornate design of a butterfly's wings, which would have given her a much more colorful transformed appearance as the holder of the butterfly miraculous than it does to Hawk Moth, its current holder.

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    • Oh, and the other possibility about the dress is it simply could have been a gift from Gabriel to his wife. He IS a fashion designer.

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    • In the episode origins there was a photo of Gabriels wife in a locket, a miraculous? That's why I think that Gabriel Agreste is Hawk Moth. Also, his appearance could change, just like Adiren gets fully green eyes and longer hair.

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    • In my theory,Gabriel is NOT HawkMoth because in the episode jackady,He threw the card at Gabriel and then few seconds after that,Hawk Moth starts talking.So,how can he pretend he got hit then transform into hawk moth and then talk to him?And if you are saying in the orgins video hawk moth holded a picture of Mrs.Agreste But,Can't another person love her too?That in my theory i think Mrs.Agreste has a brother.


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    • Unless Gabriel both IS HawkMoth AND can be in two places at one time. THAT would be... miraculous.

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    • Possibilities:

      1)  HawkMoth is a past or future version of Gabriel who's traveled in time to this point in his life

      2)  HawkMoth is Gabriels' darker half, somehow split from him into a separate being

      3)  HawkMoth has no actual physical existence, but exists only in Gabriel's mind, from where he projects his mental image and thoughts into people's minds telepathically -- no one has ever seen him in person


      Granted, all of this is what most people would describe as "comic book stuff"...

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    • Calliope37 wrote:
      {SPOILERS}


      Why I think Gabriel Agreste is Hawkmoth:

      1)The whole "He wants to find his wife/ she was the peafowl miraculous holder/ stuff" thing. I mean, it makes sense! (If you don't now what I'm talking about, check out other people's comments for more in depth)

      2) In the beginning of the origins episode, Hawkmoth has a silver ring on the middle finger of his left hand.

      In Simon Says, Mr. Agreste has the same ring on his same hand on the same finger.

      Coincidence? Unlikely.

      File:OR1 lq (16).png
      Ring2









      3)The book in the beginning of the origins episode is the same one that Adrien found in his father's secret safe.



      File:OR1 lq (11).png


      And as a side note, some people say Gabriel can't be Hawkmoth because their facial structure is off... But it's possible that the transformation does that. Think about it. When Adrien becomes Chat Noir, his regular ears are replaced with cat ears, which must change the entire anatomy of his head! (I think...) Soo...

      That's why I think Mr. Agreste is Hawkmoth! :-D

      i find the ring as credible enough evidence as the two look identical (the rings)

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    • You're right! I can't believe that Gabriel Agreste is Hawk Moth! That's amazing!

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    • I haven't been watching Miraculous long but I have finished all of season one. There are just somethings that don't add up in all of the episodes. 

      In Simon Says that bugged me a little if Gabriel was Hawk Moth wouldn't he have stopped Simon Says from controling him. He may be able to create duplicates of people.

      In Volpina when Adrien finds the book my theory there is that his mother had the peacock miraculous. 

      Gabriel is a good person to suspect to be Hawk Moth I believe it can be him because he is in only like 2 maybe 3 episodes. Hawk Moth has a locket with a picture of his wife. 

      I am 17 and I watch Pretty Little Liars and some of these things just don't add up. I am also a person who likes to think outside the box to think of a reason why people can be in two places at once. I do read between the lines.

      But in the long run Gabriel is a great canditate for being Hawk Moth.

      What do people think about my theroies? 

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    • Photo
       okay so i know that it is extremely pixelated, but i do have some things to help prove that they are the same person. do you guys agree on this?
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    • don't forget the ring

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    • Julia Agreste 623 wrote:

      Photo
       okay so i know that it is extremely pixelated, but i do have some things to help prove that they are the same person. do you guys agree on this?

      I definitely agree with you, but I have a question: why wasn't the silhouette wearing glasses? Does anyone have ideas?

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    • the me reason Clark Kent wears glasses as a disguise so people don't suspect him to be Hawkmoth

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    • On the glasses, I wouldn't be surprised if Gabriel had taken them off, at least in that instance, or the animators tweaked it so the audience couldn't see them and figure out right away it was him.

      I bet Gabriel usually wears glasses when he transforms if he is Hawk Moth, but the glasses disappear in the transformation. After all, Alya and Nino were wearing glasses when they were akumatized, but the glasses disappeared for their akumatized forms. Perhaps Miraculous transformation works in the same way as akumatization, where glasses can disappear.

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    • Gabriel Agreste is hawk moth because in the first episode of origins hawk moth has a picture of Adrian's mom. (I tried to add the pictures to prove it but I was having technical difficulties)

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    • I guess this could be considered a spoiler... Okay so I thought for sure that Gabriel Agreste was Hawkmoth, until the Jackady episode. When Gabriel is under control of Jackady, if Gabriel is Hawkmoth, then how does Jackady still have his powers if Hawkmoth, who controls the akumas, is under control of his own akumatized victim. See, it makes no sense. I guess it's kind of impossible. I guess we'll have to see because I thought for sure Gabriel was Hawkmoth.

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    • ChatTheCat wrote:
      I guess this could be considered a spoiler... Okay so I thought for sure that Gabriel Agreste was Hawkmoth, until the Jackady episode. When Gabriel is under control of Jackady, if Gabriel is Hawkmoth, then how does Jackady still have his powers if Hawkmoth, who controls the akumas, is under control of his own akumatized victim. See, it makes no sense. I guess it's kind of impossible. I guess we'll have to see because I thought for sure Gabriel was Hawkmoth.

      To be fair, we don't know the extent of Hawk Moth's powers in this kind of situation. My theory is that an akuma and its possessed vicitm become their own entity that Hawk Moth is only linked to, with Hawk Moth being able to telepathically talk with them and briefly control them if they're not obeying him. However, they aren't affected if the Moth Miraculous holder de-transforms and re-transforms, as they exist on their own. After all, akumatized villains often act on their own, and Hawk Moth only controls them by twisting their minds with the akuma to follow him in the first place and physically threatening them when they aren't getting their job done.

      It would also explain why Hawk Moth was questioning Simon Says about this motives. Why does Hawk Moth suggest that is isn't a good idea that Simon Says is attacking the mansion for Gabriel? Usually, Hawk Moth is partially supportive of villains getting their desires as long as they hold up their end of the deal, and it's a perfect situation where Ladybug and Cat Noir would be attracted to the scene by Gabriel's kidnapping. But he tries to make Ladybug and Cat Noir's defeat the first part of the deal, even though he usually lets the villain have the first part. It's like he felt he had to remind his victim to remember the job and chase after Ladybug and Cat Noir instead of Gabriel. And look at how he's walking forward when he's telling Simon Says this; he just got there to tell him this! Hawk Moth doesn't have control, and he's trying to protect himself , Gabriel Agreste, from being a victim in his own scheme by enforcing Simon Says' deal with him. After all, he doesn't appear at the end of the episode, so he was definitely out of comission without a way to stop Simon Says from destroying him.

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    • Here's my two cents on this. In the Origins two-parter, Hawkmoth's civillian form has white sleeves. Who else wears white as part of his clothing? Why it's Gabriel! Either we're one step closer or I'm just grasping at straws.

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    • I can't believe no one has mentioned Agreste is a type of butterfly https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agreste that's gotta be a big clue.

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    • My theory is that Gabriel is hawk moth and I say this because every time he akumakizes someone Adrian is out for f the house and the book is some how important and it has hawk moth in it and if I am correct he probably knows that he needs to give it to the man and he is hiding it because he does not want anyone to know who he is

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    • Tansyflower wrote:

      ChatTheCat wrote:
      I guess this could be considered a spoiler... Okay so I thought for sure that Gabriel Agreste was Hawkmoth, until the Jackady episode. When Gabriel is under control of Jackady, if Gabriel is Hawkmoth, then how does Jackady still have his powers if Hawkmoth, who controls the akumas, is under control of his own akumatized victim. See, it makes no sense. I guess it's kind of impossible. I guess we'll have to see because I thought for sure Gabriel was Hawkmoth.

      To be fair, we don't know the extent of Hawk Moth's powers in this kind of situation. My theory is that an akuma and its possessed vicitm become their own entity that Hawk Moth is only linked to, with Hawk Moth being able to telepathically talk with them and briefly control them if they're not obeying him. However, they aren't affected if the Moth Miraculous holder de-transforms and re-transforms, as they exist on their own. After all, akumatized villains often act on their own, and Hawk Moth only controls them by twisting their minds with the akuma to follow him in the first place and physically threatening them when they aren't getting their job done.

      It would also explain why Hawk Moth was questioning Simon Says about this motives. Why does Hawk Moth suggest that is isn't a good idea that Simon Says is attacking the mansion for Gabriel? Usually, Hawk Moth is partially supportive of villains getting their desires as long as they hold up their end of the deal, and it's a perfect situation where Ladybug and Cat Noir would be attracted to the scene by Gabriel's kidnapping. But he tries to make Ladybug and Cat Noir's defeat the first part of the deal, even though he usually lets the villain have the first part. It's like he felt he had to remind his victim to remember the job and chase after Ladybug and Cat Noir instead of Gabriel. And look at how he's walking forward when he's telling Simon Says this; he just got there to tell him this! Hawk Moth doesn't have control, and he's trying to protect himself , Gabriel Agreste, from being a victim in his own scheme by enforcing Simon Says' deal with him. After all, he doesn't appear at the end of the episode, so he was definitely out of comission without a way to stop Simon Says from destroying him.

      Okay, thank you. That helps me a lot. I was so sure that Gabriel was Hawkmoth but it made me question myself when I watched this episode. That makes a lot more sense now. Thanks!

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    • Kind of obvious it's Adrien's father he even has the perfect place to hide the miraculous right under his tie

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    • Ya know... its pretty obvious that adrien's dad is Hawk Moth. Like look at the facts. He had the peacock miraculous and a book on the superheroes, so he obviously knows that its a miraculous. In the origins episode when he was still talking to Nuroo, he had a picture of Adrien's mom in his hand, so its a possible fact that he wants the combined power of plagg and tikki to get her back. They have the same voice actor and he also tried to take Chat's miraculous when he shook his hand in the episode with Simon Say's.

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    • PS: he also placed the peacock miraculous beside the picture of his wife, suggesting that she was the original master of the peacock miraculous

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    • Just watched Simon Says. Far from it leading us away from thinking Agreste is Hawk Moth, we're being deliberately led to think they are the same person. Agreste is seen walking off stage and in the following scene with Hawk Moth he is seen walking on stage, plus Agreste's interest in the earrings/ring, plus Hawk Moth's reluctance for Simon to attak Agreste. In addition to clues in other episodes that people have raised like the ring and the book.

      The time it takes to switch is short enough to fool people, like when Marinette arranged an interview for Alya with Ladybug. The only constraint it adds is that if Hawk Moth is Agreste, then his lair must be in the Agreste complex.

      The funny thing is, unless it was an act, at the end of it Gabriel hugs Adrien, so he really has feelings for his son. Given so many pictures of his wife, he must have feelings for her too.

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    • is it just a coincidence or did (in episode simon says) Simon Says make Gabriel act like a butterfly on purpose or something? I feel like that miight be another clue of Gabriel being Hawkmoth.

      Also, what if gabriel and hawkmoth aren't the same person but are enemies? Like, if Hawkmoth loved Mrs.Agreste but she married gabriel, she either died or dissapeared, and hawkmoth needed both Miraculouses to get her back, and maybe when he did, she would love him instead.

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    • If Gabriel is hawkmoth, than he could easily get the cat miraculous ring from Adrien. I mean they live in the same house! Gabriel could get it when Adrien was sleeping or something.

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    • It could be a possibility that Gabriel has a twin that is in lobe with Mrs Agreste which is why she left and why he wants the god like power. It would explain the similarities to gabriel and the differences. In the orgin episode part one it show hawkmoth untransformed in black and I colourised it and it is just like Gabriel except he doesn't have glasses or an ascot

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    • ILuvBlackCats wrote:
      If Gabriel is hawkmoth, than he could easily get the cat miraculous ring from Adrien. I mean they live in the same house! Gabriel could get it when Adrien was sleeping or something.

      Have you ever tried removing a ring from someone's finger when they're asleep? If either Adrien or Plagg woke up, they'd wake up the other, and Agreste would suddenly have a lot of explaining to do.

      (My sister and I tried to get my mother's ring off once. It didn't work.)

      Now if Agreste arranged for Adrien to be drugged so he'd be unconscious, then he could do it. But the risk to Adrien's life and health might be too high for him to do that, plus again, there'd be a lot of explaining to do as to how it happened without him incriminating himself.

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    • I think Hawk Moth is Gabriel Agreste and he wants to bring Mrs. Agreste back with the absolut power of the two miraculous! I honestly can't wait to find out if my theory is true!

      If you don't think Gabriel Agreste is Hawk Moth,just watch Simon Says and Origins episodes and pay attention!

      Imageuj
      Image

      "Love Link"

      Imager
      Image

      Adriens mom

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    • Gabriel Agreste knows what the Miraculous are, or at least probably has an idea. I mean, he has the PEACOCK in his safe, and he expressed interest in Adrien/Chat's ring. So then, why after Jackady does Hawk Moth still pursue Ladybug's and Chat Noir's Miraculous? Gabriel is extremely paranoid about his son's safety, so why would he keep putting him in danger? I have three solutions.

      1. This is the simplest one. Hawk Moth is NOT Gabriel.

      2. As mentioned in a few of the above comments, Gabriel has schizophrenia. 

      3. This is my personal favorite for some reason. Maybe, when Gabriel saw Adrien's ring, he was started denying it to himself. "My son isn't Chat Noir. Of course he isn't. Adrien would never cavort around Paris like that. I trained him better. The ring's just a statement piece." And so he continues while steadfastly ignoring the elephant in his own head.

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    •   the truth I think so because it has the picture of the mother adrien

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    • Or maybe he has a twin brother.

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    • I know someone ahs said agreste means butterfly, but I have something to add on to that. Adrien (Gabriel's son) means the dark one and agreste means butterfly, so all together, it means the dark butterfly. why else would he have a name like that unless Gabriel agreste was hawkmoth? Additionally, the logo on Adrien's orange shoes is a butterfly!

      I rest my case.

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    • Dragon Kwami16 wrote:
      I know someone ahs said agreste means butterfly, but I have something to add on to that.

      Adrien (Gabriel's son) means the dark one and agreste means butterfly, so all together, it means the dark butterfly. why else would he have a name like that unless Gabriel agreste was hawkmoth? Additionally, the logo on Adrien's orange shoes is a butterfly!

      I rest my case.

      Yes! Also this picture. The shoes and clothes Adrien wears were designed by his father so...
      Tumblr o15v52SfBO1v0q6uho4 1280
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    • Or Gabriel could have a twin brother. And had the Moth Miraculous, that could've been originally his, stolen from him. Besides, he wants to protect Adrien not hurt him.

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    • I belive this theory because i dont know if anyone else noticed but in origins part one our introduction to hawk moth starts with him holding a pendent thing (I have no idea what its called) With a picture of Adriens mom in it, if hawkmoth isn't Gabriel he must be a real creepo

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    • Well, I still think there's a possiblity of Mr. Agreste having a twin brother. Besides, he loves Adrien and he's trying to make sure he doesn't get hurt.

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    • Yellowwinx8 wrote:
      Well, I still think there's a possiblity of Mr. Agreste having a twin brother. Besides, he loves Adrien and he's trying to make sure he doesn't get hurt.

      Oml you are genius ,God bless you! i thought of this too!

      (((Spoiler))))----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}


      This might be stupid But i think that Gabriel have Twin!

      But his twin Is evil and wanted Gabriel's wife

      But Sadly The Twins falls in love with Adrien's mother?!

      Remember Simon says Episode....

      That guy Controlled Gabriel And Gabriel was dancing or any stupid thing but when ladybug Saved the day Gabriel turned back to his normal Hawkmoth supposed to watch The guy who controlled and watch him until he gets Ladybug's Miraculous....

      SOOO in my opinion that's why Hawkmoth is not Gabriel

      The ring that Gabriel and Hawkmoth maybe a prove that Gabriel and hawkmoth know each other!! And have great relationship that's why they have the same ring!

      But Hawkmoth was fighting with Mama Adrien all the whole time And when he knew that he peed himself for sure! and want's to take back his sin! But MY mind Is telling me That Mama Adrien is not Dead She will appear in the Season's 2 or 3 Last Episode!!!

      And Gabriel Knew a little a bit about his Twin's Evil Power That's why he was shocked when he saw Adrien's Ring for sure!

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    • That sounds reasonable.

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    • Yellowwinx8 wrote:
      That sounds reasonable.

      Lol,But that's my opinion ; - ;.....anyway.....

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    • Ok, I don't know if anyone ponited this out but, in one of the episodes when Adrien's dad's saw his ring he was shocked to see it on him and asked him when he got it. The thing is if it Hawkmoth wasn't his dad he should't have cared at all, but since I think Adrien's dad is Hawkmoth it kinda plays out.

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    • What if HawkMoth is Voldmort???

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    • Deepihanoa wrote: What if HawkMoth is Voldmort???

      Omg YES! I definitely agree.

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    • Calliope37 wrote:

      Deepihanoa wrote: What if HawkMoth is Voldmort???

      Omg YES! I definitely agree.

      It's definitely CONFIRMED.

      VOLDMORT HAD A NOSE SURGERY!! 

      AND BECAME HAWKMOTH!!BADUM TSS

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    • Annabeth4136 wrote:
      ... if it Hawkmoth wasn't his dad he should't have cared at all ...

      We know Hawk Moth is interested in acquiring the miraculouses, but we don't know his motives, apart from the need for power. We also know Agreste has interest in the miraculouses because of what is/was in his safe, but again, we don't know what motivates that interest. We've been fed plenty of evidence that they are the same person, in which case the motives align. However, the facts are still open to interpretation. Since their motives are still unrevealed, they could be different people with different motives.

      If Gabriel is Hawk Moth, the main thing now is that he realises (or at least suspects) that Cat Noir is his son.

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    • Tumblr nxtvybOKv11qmo624o1 500

      The problem with the bottom illustration is that the two images are not to scale. When I scaled up Agreste's image so that it's the same size as Hawk Moth's, the differences are much smaller than they are made out. The blue line is drawn well inside the boundary of Agreste's face, while the pink line is drawn along the boundary of Hawk Moth's. Obviously the mask adds some width to the nose. While still not identical, I think the characters are much closer than this illustration makes out.

      EDIT: The mask seems to cover the ears so that would also explain why it's wider at the temples.

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    • ElectricRaichu wrote:
      Annabeth4136 wrote:
      ... if it Hawkmoth wasn't his dad he should't have cared at all ...
      We know Hawk Moth is interested in acquiring the miraculouses, but we don't know his motives, apart from the need for power. We also know Agreste has interest in the miraculouses because of what is/was in his safe, but again, we don't know what motivates that interest. We've been fed plenty of evidence that they are the same person, in which case the motives align. However, the facts are still open to interpretation. Since their motives are still unrevealed, they could be different people with different motives.

      If Gabriel is Hawk Moth, the main thing now is that he realises (or at least suspects) that Cat Noir is his son.

      In "Ladybug & Cat Noir", Hawk Moth mentions getting the Miraculouses to fulfill his dearest secret wish. A crew member of the show, Wilfried Pain, also stated in a tweet that, in response to someone asking if Hawk Moth is a metaphor for human ambivalence, "[Hawk Moth's] true nature and purpose will change your point of view." I suspect that Hawk Moth's secret motive isn't bad; perhaps there is something good he is trying to do, but he's using diabolical tatics as a means to achieve it. Whatever Hawk Moth's motives may be, they seem to be shaded gray, rather than flat-out black.

      As for Hawk Moth, assuming he's Gabriel, knowing that Adrien is Cat Noir, I bet this wasn't brought up in the first season, as the season had very little continuity threading it through. "Volpina" is the only episode that definitely happened after "Simon Says", and to be fair, while he was wanting both Miraculouses, Hawk Moth was much more driven for Ladybug's Miraculous in that case. If Gabriel really did figure out Adrien is Cat Noir, or at least is very suspicious, I bet Season 2 will make it clear with his actions, or at least hint at it.

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    • I agree, HAWKMOTH IS VOLDEMORT XD

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    • RMBA1001 wrote:
      I agree, HAWKMOTH IS VOLDEMORT XD

      YEAH.

      VOLDMORT JUST HAD A NOSE SURGERY!

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    • Tansyflower wrote:
      ElectricRaichu wrote:

      If Gabriel is Hawk Moth, the main thing now is that he realises (or at least suspects) that Cat Noir is his son.

      As for Hawk Moth, assuming he's Gabriel, knowing that Adrien is Cat Noir, I bet this wasn't brought up in the first season, as the season had very little continuity threading it through. "Volpina" is the only episode that definitely happened after "Simon Says", and to be fair, while he was wanting both Miraculouses, Hawk Moth was much more driven for Ladybug's Miraculous in that case. If Gabriel really did figure out Adrien is Cat Noir, or at least is very suspicious, I bet Season 2 will make it clear with his actions, or at least hint at it.

      I just watched Antibug again and Hawk Moth was only focusing on the earrings. He was ignoring the ring. It would be consistent with knowing that the ring was now, if not in his possession, then at least within his control.

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    • Hawk Moth has a picture of MRS AGREste, more proof

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    • SPOILERS AHEAD!

      Gabriel is Hawk Moth because:

      he has a picture of Mrs Argeste and on episode 23 (Simon Says), he wants the miraculouses and scenes showing us that it is home , does not say anything to Simon says, while in other scenes it said!

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    • Gabriel Agreste can't be Hawk Moth, because Gabriel was transformed by a supervillain. I think Hawk Moth is not exit-ing his Observatory, and waiting, till the next akuma. My guess is...

      Hawk Moth is the person who gave Zmarinette the Miraculous :D He is just playing with them. :D

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    • AnatolyWein wrote:
      Gabriel Agreste can't be Hawk Moth, because Gabriel was transformed by a supervillain. I think Hawk Moth is not exit-ing his Observatory, and waiting, till the next akuma. My guess is...

      Hawk Moth is the person who gave Zmarinette the Miraculous :D He is just playing with them. :D

      Actually no beacuse in the origins Master Fu gives Adrien and Marinette their Miraculouses. And in the episode Volphina, Gabriel has the peacock miraculous. Some people say that Adrien's mother is the Peacock miraculous Holder but no one is sure about it

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    • Princess of Harte wrote:
      There are essentially there groups about Hawk Moth's identity.

      The first is that Gabriel Agreste is Hawk Moth. This stems from PV Felix's father being Hawk Moth, the fact that it's a cliche, and the fact that Papapillon said we would know who Hawk Moth is.

      The second is that Mr. Kubdel, Alix's father, is Hawk Moth. Mr. Kubdel actually has more in common with Hawk Moth (such as facial structure and expression) than Gabriel. The only problem is that Mr. Kubdel has a mustache and  Hawk Moth does not.

      The third is fairly new: Nathalie Sancoeur is Hawk Moth. This comes from the theory that Hawk Moth is a shapeshifter. It also stems from Nathalie being closer to Adrien, therefore making the betrayal more harmful.

      Papapillon won't tell us anymore about Hawk Moth's secret identity.

      How can Natalie be Hawk moth like isn't Hawkmoth male? still confusing 

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    • A really convincing and probrably true theory is the Gabriel Agreste is hawk moth. One example is the actual miraculous Jewel is a locket of sorts with a picture of mama agreste in it as seen in origins part 1.

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    • Here us proof beyond any tee doubt that Gabriel Agreste IS Hawk Moth.

      First, research origins part 1. Inside the locket we see a picture that perfectly matches up with pictures we've seen of Adriens mother.

      Second, just think, how much would an automatic retracting butterfly shaped window cost? A whole lot. Who has that money? Gabriel Agreste

      Third, rewatch Simon says (or Jackady). After ladybug goes to find Adrien at the mansion, Gabriel immediately turns and looks at the portrait of mrs. Agreste. Immediately afterward, we see hawk moth walking into his chamber fixing his brooch as if he just came from somewhere else... Like the mansion.

      Fourth, also in Simon Says, after Simon is deakumatized, there is no remark from hawk moth as in EVERY OTHER EPISODE. Why no "I'll get you next time" from HM? Because he was on the roof with ladybug and cat noir. He also shows fascination with both ladybugs earrings and cat noirs ring. With adrien again, he is shocked to see the ring in Adriens finger. Why would he be so surprised unless he realized that this is the miraculous he has been looking for.

      Finally, why would Gabriel what the miraculous? My theory is that he wants to bring back his wife with the ultimate power, and that his wife will become Le Paon, whom was revealed to be the antagonist of season 3, I say this because Gabriel had a safe of her things behind her portrait and the peacock miraculous was in it. This can't be a fake like Lila's because in irigins 1 the peacock slot in the box is empty. This is my most solid thirty, let me know

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    • Another fact I know I always forget — and I'm confident has been mentioned somewhere above — is the book about Miraculouses. Hawk Moth clearly has it in "Ladybug & Cat Noir". After all, he is having Nooroo use it to explain what he needs to know about the Miraculouses, the ultimate power from the Ladybug Miraculous and the Cat Miraculous, and the ability of his own Miraculous. It doesn't make sense that Hawk Moth would've lost the book inbetween "Ladybug & Cat Noir" and "Volpina", and it would be strange and against the point of the book's importance if Nooroo had the ability to make an exact illusion of the book to show someone. However, it does makes sense he would hide it somewhere especially protected, like a safebox.

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    • I believe it is Gabriel Agreste. However, I wonder about his motivations. I heard that Hawk Moth is scared of something, and scared for someone. Perhaps he wants the Ladybug and Black Cat miraculous to stop whatever the thing he is scared of?

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    • AmnaKakakhel wrote:
      Princess of Harte wrote:
      There are essentially there groups about Hawk Moth's identity.

      The first is that Gabriel Agreste is Hawk Moth. This stems from PV Felix's father being Hawk Moth, the fact that it's a cliche, and the fact that Papapillon said we would know who Hawk Moth is.

      The second is that Mr. Kubdel, Alix's father, is Hawk Moth. Mr. Kubdel actually has more in common with Hawk Moth (such as facial structure and expression) than Gabriel. The only problem is that Mr. Kubdel has a mustache and  Hawk Moth does not.

      The third is fairly new: Nathalie Sancoeur is Hawk Moth. This comes from the theory that Hawk Moth is a shapeshifter. It also stems from Nathalie being closer to Adrien, therefore making the betrayal more harmful.

      Papapillon won't tell us anymore about Hawk Moth's secret identity.

      How can Natalie be Hawk moth like isn't Hawkmoth male? still confusing 

      Please note that what I said here is almost a year old. It came from the theory that Hawk Moth was a shapeshifter and could therefore change genders. This was months before the release of the Origins episodes. It has since been proven false.

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    • Its Gabriel who wants to get the powers in order to get back his dead wife, who died in an accident, which makes him also so afraid that something happens to his son, at least thats what they revealed in Germany!

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    • what did they say in Germany? full story anyways.

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    • In the first origins episode, Hawkmoth was seen holding a locket with a photo of adriens mom in it. I think it's more than likely that with all the similarities that he is not Gabriel agreste. With a cartoon with such a simple plot, it's more than just a guess that they are the same person.

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    • Fryeagreste
      Fryeagreste removed this reply because:
      I'll move this comment to another topic
      00:09, November 24, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • HOW IS YOUR FONT SO TINY? WHAT DID YOU DO?

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    • I'm a little confused now, though. In the upcoming special preview summary, Adrien essentially runs away from home, prompting Gabriel to actually act like a worried parent when their child goes missing. So if he was busy worrying about his son, why make an Akuma? 

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    • Spoons017 wrote:
      I'm a little confused now, though. In the upcoming special preview summary, Adrien essentially runs away from home, prompting Gabriel to actually act like a worried parent when their child goes missing. So if he was busy worrying about his son, why make an Akuma? 

      Yeah, and mainly because Hawkmoth would know that Adrien was part of the reason the victim got mad. So why would he risk having an akuma targeting Adrien? And when would he have time? In a moment he would be worried about Adrien, and after Adrien was safe, he couldn't exactly go like "oh wait, you're not going to spend Christmas alone, but wait here just a second while I teleport to my secret lair and turn someone into a villain"

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    • I just realised that Hawk Moth's voice in the opening of Origins Part 1 is the exact same as Gabriel Agreste.

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    • did you ever notice in the first episode hawkmoth looks at a picture of a beautiful woman with green eyes

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    • Okay, but then Gabriel's book appears in the beggining of the Origins episode, along with Nooroo. Pretty suspicious. But I still want the Christmas episode to prove this Gabriel/Hawkmoth theory wrong ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    • Okay, we all know that Gabriel and Hawkmoth don't have the same face. We also know that Hawkmoth keeps a picture of Adrien's mother. So what if Hawkmoth is Adrien's uncle that we haven't been introduced to yet? What if his mother had a brother who's looking for her?

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    • TheFinnishGamer wrote:
      I've been having this theory since day 1. Is Hawk Moths seceret identity Mr.Agreste? They have similar structures, the same voice actor, their eyes are always the same color as the other, and something that no one has possibly noticed. They both have cane that look the same. Tell me what you think!

      in the magician episode when he refers to catching gabriel hawk moth says it's risky but it's given me an idea, implying that he might be gabriel and being affected by he's own villain's powers is risky

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    • on top of that in the same episode gabriel new he was coming which is odd considering his personality would mean he wouldn't watch tv so hawk moth seeing being able to see and hear what simon says sees and says would be the only way

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    • Hawk Moth can hear and see everything that his akumatized villains can hear and see.

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    • I was brownsing in  internet and found this information in wikipedia:

      https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agreste

      L'Agreste (Hipparchia semele)

      or if we try in English:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grayling_(butterfly)

      The grayling, or rock grayling, (Hipparchia semele)

      is that a coincidence that his surname is a common European Butterfly ?

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    • We mentioned that in Gabriel's page. His brand logo (other than a large "G") is a butterfly.

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    • Sorry, but I could not find that page. May you show me the link ?

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    • I believe he is Hawmoth, or at the very least, some kind of relative to Gabriel is Hawmoth, like a twin or something. Alfrely (A spanish channel) brightneed the image of the episode where we "see" his civilian form, and it ressembled gabriel a lot.

      People against this theory, appart from using circunstancial evidence, knee on the fact that his face and stature are "different", apart from that, they have the "he ain't that fast argument"

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    • Wallybr wrote:
      Sorry, but I could not find that page. May you show me the link ?

      Gabriel Agreste

      Gabriel (brand)

      Here you go!

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    • They are the same person in the origins you see adrienes mom you watch ladybug and catnoir origins

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    • Akaiyoukai wrote: Origin Spoilers:


      Hawkmoth
      Hawkmoth and Gabriel Agreste are most definately the same person. In episode 25:

      Hawkmoth is seen holding a perndant with a photo of a blonde lady in it, before he transforms completely into said villian.

      Later on in the episode, the same woman is seen in a family portrait in the Agreste house, standing beside  Adrien and Gabriel. 
      Dantte

      Does anyone deny that Hawkmoth isn't Gabriel?

      Nope I don't.

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    • Those aren't spoilers since that episode has aired already.

      Gabe and HM are also most definitely not the same people because Gabriel is shorter than HM and has a different 3D CGI puppet than HM does.

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    • Also, please don't give out illegal links to episodes.

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    • i believe gabe is hawkmoth, simply because of the clues we've been given in several episodes. they both have the same voice actor, they both have a ring on the same hand in their civilian forms, they are both obsessed with the same woman (mrs agreste), in simon says, simon turned gabe into a butterfly (and hawkmoth literally didn't appear for the rest of the episode, "coincidentally" at the same time gabriel was captive), hawkmoth tried to drive simon away from gabe, gabe was very interested in the heroes' miraculouses and scowled when he wasn't able to touch them, and gabe literally had a book about miraculouses AND the peacock miraculous in front of the picture of mrs agreste.

      but that's just my opinion tbh

      (also i probably won't reply again because i don't really do wikia comments or threads, but i thought i'd actually socialize for once)

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    • AttackOnCookies wrote:
      ... in simon says, simon turned gabe into a butterfly ...

      I don't know how Jackady/Simon says it in English version, but in French dub, Jackady tells Gabe to become Pappilon (butterfly) which is literally Hawk Moths's name.

      What I mean is that, in my opinion, if Gabriel is Hawk Moth then he sould have start act like Hawk Moth at this point because that is the idea of butterfly what his subconscious would probably give him.

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    • Look at this picture and tell me what you think
      IMG 1659

      Now tell me who does this remind you of

      Image bb

      Oh hmmm

      I'm not saying it is Gabriel but this is making me suspicious, they also have the same eyes and voice actor (Ladybug and Cat Noir oragins part 1)
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    • my thoughts on this- well from earlier comments people add in the fact that hawkmoth can be a girl, which i just wanted point out is very very unlikely. I just wanted to point it out nobody get mad plz :l :l

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    • Hawkmoth wife

      Hawkmoth's wife

      I firmly believe Hawkmoth is Gabriel. He wants the ladybug and black cat miraculous to bring back his missing wife. He is overprotective of his son, Aiden, mostly because he is aware that there is danger out in the city because HE is causing it. In the episode where he expresses interest in Mirette and Aiden's jewelry, Gabriel has not completely connected the dots, just as neither Mirette nor Aiden know the others identity despite NUMEROUS clues and how close they are as partners. He additionally has the peacock miraculous. The guardian alluded that he had made a mistake once before when assigning the miraculous. THIS IS THE THEORY I AM MOST INTERESTED IN! Perhaps Aiden's mother was the owner of the peacock Miraculous and something happened to her!!! This would explain why Gabriel has the peacock miraculous and potentially how he came into possession of the moth miraculous. I am very excited for season 2 to come out and to get a better backstory on all the other Miraculous! 
      Aidens parents

      Aiden's parents

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      • Adrien
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    • If he is Hawkmoth, I really question the man's priorities, lol. In the Christmas Special, after Adrien comes back, he goes wherever he goes to transform so he can Akumatize someone, all the while leaving his son to stew miserably in his room with a guard that almost says nothing? Really, Gabe?

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    • I saw the image of the next fox mira holder and little spoilt aletr wears glasses, the image i saw showed her/his glasses off in her/his superheroe form. Evidence that Gab is hawkmoth is because of the glasses but eviedence against that is 1. in simon says, simon forces Gab to jump of the building which will be stupid if hawkmoth wasrelying on ladybug to save him 2. in simon says it shows simon outside the gates of Gab house and hawkmoth in where ever he lives says something about is isjust work or something but to the point, if hawk was Gab how did Gab go from his secret hideout to the mansion is around 10 mins with letting Naterly (the assistant) or ladybug or cat noir to notice. I mean one or two scenes after simon says at the gate , cat noir tell Gab to activate lock down.???

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    • Dude seriously the hideout is most likely inside the Mansion

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    • Man, go read the thread on Where is hawkmoth hideout. It kinda proves that the location is not at the  mansion:-)

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    • Uh actually I think it is

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    • about the whole "gabriel can't be hawkmoth because hawk's lair can't be in gabriel's mansion" shenanigans, here's some food for thought: a villain's lair doesn't always have to be his home. in fact, it would make more sense for hawk moth's lair to not be in his mansion as to not draw attention, and generally because villains like seclusion and invisiblity. and by the way, i'm not attempting to disprove the gabe = hawk moth theory, in fact, i'm trying to support it.

      it wouldn't make sense for hawk moth's lair to be behind the portrait of mrs. agreste because the entrance to his lair is a small, hexagon-shaped cut-out in the floor that wouldn't necessarily be there unless there's a ladder to it, which seems less realistic because a stairway would be more convenient (with the shape of the portrait and all), and it seems like it would also make more sense because of how fast gabriel can turn into hawk moth: a stairway would be much more faster.

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    • If you look carefully at the akerma when it flies out the window, you can see the paris tower (in the background) but the mansion is right next to it(tower). Even if it is Gab, dont you think father vs son scenerio is a good idea for a kids movie.?...? 

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    • 20hY0shimi2
      20hY0shimi2 removed this reply because:
      I was wrong
      18:46, March 13, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • 20hY0shimi2
      20hY0shimi2 removed this reply because:
      still wrong
      18:46, March 13, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • I think that if it isn't Gabe it is Alec. You might think that is wrong because of what happened in multiple episodes but the akumitized villans might not know what Hawkmoth looks like.

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    • Alec was in the middle of presenting a TV show when both Kung Food and Simon Says were akumatized, so he certainly is not Hawkmoth. 

      Baring a Gravity Falls-like twin brother twist, the only other character that we saw in Season 1 that could possibly be Hawkmoth is Mr. Kubdel. He has the same color eyes and a similar face shape to Hawkmoth, along with a scarf that hides where Hawkmoth's broch would be. In addition, it's at least somewhat suspicious how he was able to get a hold of a supposed "antique" watch that displays a holagram, and it's also worth noting that Mr. Kubdel's children were two of the strongest akumas. Of course, given how he was in the Louvre shortly before Jalil was akumatized, his hideout would probably have to be somewhere hidden inside there. It wouldn't be the biggest surprise in the world if he was Hawkmoth to me, as I'm used to similar fake-outs watching Scooby-Doo: there's one person to whom most of the evidence is pointing to as being the villian, but it usually turns to be someone else that there were subtle clues about them being the villian.

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