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  • Just something I'm concerned about. I know I'm not the best person to talk about this and other people will know this subject better than me and I think we should address it.

    Personaly I think it is like in Evilustrtor where Sabrina admits to doing Chloe's homework for years and thinks that's what friends do and in Darkblade, after Chloe's plan for humiatling, she says it was all Sabrina's idea. But Antibug shows how horrible Chloe is to Sabrina. It's commented by the buttler thtathey constanlty fight, porbably as one-sided as the one in the flashback and Chloe doesn't seem to care that Sabrina became an akuma becuase of her. And the only reason she let Sabrina back was because Ladybug told her to.

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    • Oh, I definitely think it's abusive. Chloé is constantly exploiting the fact that Sabrina has no friends other than her, and takes measures to ensure that Sabrina can't establish any other friendships. I think the reason why Chloé befriended Sabrina in the first place was because of everything she could get out of it. At the end of "Antibug", it's implied that Chloé actually cares about Sabrina to an extent, but that doesn't change the fact that she's taking advantage of Sabrina while cutting off all ways Sabrina could get away from her, as seen in "The Evillustrator".

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    • I would definitely agree with this relationship being unhealthy. It's very one-sided; Sabrina supports and assists Chloé without expecting anything in return. That's not a bad trait to have in a friendship, but Chloé abuses it, and she never shows any gratitute or generosity in return. Chloé is clearly the main one in the wrong, but you can sadly see why Sabrina falls for it. She doesn't understand how healthy friendships work, she doesn't believe she can build a friendship with more than one person, and she thinks she has to give her all to another person without expecting the other person to respect her back (at the least). I want to see Chloé have a redemption arc, whether or not it involves a Miraculous, to see her become a better friend to Sabrina, or I hope that Sabrina finally breaks away from her and makes healthy friendships with others, whether or not Chloé is redeemed.

      In the first possible case, we know Chloé appreciates Sabrina, if not a lot, as seen in "Antibug". If she can learn to care about others, she could change and deeply care for her friend, not treating her like a servant. Wouldn't it break to get an emotional scene where a very regretful Chloé apologizes to Sabrina for her awful actions towards her, even saying she understands in Sabrina doesn't want to be friends with her anymore? Whether Sabrina agrees or not, it would be a very amazing scene.

      On the other hand, for Sabrina's character development, I want her to find away to break away from Chloé and learn how to make friends with others. I'm sure Marinette would support her in branching out and finding happiness with others If "The Evillustrator" is an indicator, though, she doesn't understand how to do it, and can immediately fall into the same system again. I could see Sabrina leaving Chloé for good, just to become the "friend" of another character who abuses her helpfulness and treats her like a follower, rather than a companion. I hope it doesn't happen that way. I really want Sabrina to overcome her issues and grow into a character who still helps others but knows her limits and what a real friend is. Maybe she'd come back to Chloé if a redemption happens, or maybe she wouldn't, but I think it would be a great message of moving beyond a bad friendship.

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    • Yes Sabrina has the right ideas of being a friend but you can't just let them run all over you I agree to both of your statements Sabrina needs to learn how to be a leader not a follower,like how She follows Chloe in her dirty tricks and even go to has far as doing the work for her.All in all I think Sabrina doesn't actually hate or dislike Marinette as seen in the evilustratorshe was grateful to Marinette for sticking up for her.I think she just needs a friend that will be true to her.

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    • Their freindship is definitively abusive. Chloe doesn't care about Sabrina at all and only wants her around so she has her personal bootlicker. Chloe doesn't even have any real friends (Does Adrien even count at this point?) It would be awesome if Sabrina abandoned her so that Chloe finally realied she doesn't have friends and isn't as "popular" as she thinks. 

      I think it's sad that there are actual, real-life frienships that are like this. 

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    • It's abusive. That blonde-haired witch doesn't care about anyone but herself. She's manipulative, mean, evil, spoiled, petty, and rotten to the core. That girl is a complete sociopath. She's a middle school, french version of Regina George for crying out loud. That witch chose to burn her own "best friend" at the stake instead of taking responsibility for herself. One of these days, Sabrina might snap and kill that witch!!!! She deserves real friends and her and Kim need to see that as long as they keep associating themselves with her, they're going to end up with guns to their heads. Heck, if it wasn't for wielding the Miraculous one of her victims would've definitly become "A" and threaten her life, and after her Sabrina, Kim, and even poor innocent Adrien, who's only crime was being friends with her.

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    • She is. She reminds me of my ex best freind.

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    • I wonder how Chloe learned that everyone should do whatever she wants because she's important (or at least thinks she is).
      If I had to guess, she was raised in a home with servants who catered to her every whim and therefore, this is how she thinks the world works when it comes to other people.

      Sabrina is definitely too meek and naive to see how bad a relationship is.
      Makes me wonder if she too was also conditioned to believe being submissive is a good thing, although I doubt her father would have encouraged such behavior, so she would have learned it elsewhere.

      However, flipside, while it's not as obvious as Chloe, Sabrina does enjoy tormenting people too, a little too gleefully for it to be just copying what Chloe does.
      Which might explain why she doesn't have any other friends, being even a little bit malicious is going to push others away.

      I do wonder how Chloe and Sabrina met though, as far as I know, it's never been described onscreen.
      While Adrien did say a little something about his history with Chloe, he's never indicated if Sabrina came as part of the package deal.
      Actually, it seems like he's never acknowledged Sabrina at all.
      Which either implies Sabrina met Chloe relatively recently or Chloe purposefully didn't introduce them for some reason.

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    • While I will say it is very abuseive sence it's chloe I have two interesting tumbur post about the two.

      How Sabrina not as good as you think,

      On how Chloe is a bigger Foil charater than we thought but with Sabrina in the mix,

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    • Yes.

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    • The emotions in this post reflect very well on how well the writers and animators have presented these two young ladies. They deserve a "well done." Now, is it their intent to develop the girls as a pair? I believe it is as this would be acceptable in today's TV shows. Anyone agree?

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    • Pair of what?
      You didn't clarify/specify.

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    • A couple, girlfriends, intimate.

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    • Sorry, no, that's not possible.
      Chloe likes boys.
      There's a scene in Pixelator where she gets trapped all alone with Adrien and she tries to kiss him.
      Also, the series has a recurring plot device she's trying to become his official girlfriend.

      DC S01EP10 (197)
      And then there's this.
      English translation: To Chloe, the most wonderful girl of the universe and the love of my life.

      She tricked Adrien into signing it without allowing him to see the prewritten message, then immediately started showing it to her fellow students.

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    • Buckmana wrote: Sorry, no, that's not possible.
      Chloe likes boys.
      There's a scene in Pixelator where she gets trapped all alone with Adrien and she tries to kiss him.
      Also, the series has a recurring plot device she's trying to become his official girlfriend.

      DC S01EP10 (197)
      And then there's this.
      English translation: To Chloe, the most wonderful girl of the universe and the love of my life.

      She tricked Adrien into signing it without allowing him to see the prewritten message, then immediately started showing it to her fellow students.

      This in no way suggests that Chloé couldn't be bi or pan. In addition, there's still a possibility that she's lesbian, as many closeted lesbians try to convince themselves into thinking they like boys before they accept their orientations. I've even picked up on some of the cues of this watching Chloé and Adrien's interactions, as Chloé seems to want to be seen dating him but doesn't seem to have any genuine affection towards him.

      Also, the purpose of having Adrien sign the poster was to have something she could use to torment other people, tying into the idea that she's using the idea of a relationship with Adrien simply for status. Having him sign the poster didn't move him any closer towards actually being in a relationship with her.

      I'm not saying that Chloé definitely isn't straight (and I also don't mean to derail this thread talking about it, since there's a more appropriate place to discuss this), but it's still very much a possibility.

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    • WilliamBillAmes wrote: The emotions in this post reflect very well on how well the writers and animators have presented these two young ladies. They deserve a "well done." Now, is it their intent to develop the girls as a pair? I believe it is as this would be acceptable in today's TV shows. Anyone agree?

      Given the current state of the dynamic between Chloé and Sabrina (considering the examples of Chloé's abuse that are documented in this thread), I think it would take a lot of development before that could be a healthy relationship. I could definitely read the dynamic as Sabrina having romantic feelings for Chloé (although platonic feelings would also make sense), but whatever feelings Sabrina has are not reciprocated. Chloé isn't just constantly mean to Sabrina—she takes advantage of Sabrina's devotion to her and cuts off all possible means for her to escape the relationship.

      This doesn't mean I don't think the relationship could progress from here, though. In "Antibug", we got to see Chloé actively noticing Sabrina's absence, and at the end she actually did something nice for Sabrina for the first time in the show so far. It's one isolated incident, but it shows the course this relationship could follow: Chloé could start to appreciate everything Sabrina does for her, and eventually would grow to actually appreciate Sabrina as a person, and would start doing things for her in return. I could see this happening—it would most likely be started off by Chloé's realization that apart from Sabrina she has no other friends. But getting to this point would take a very long time.

      I think the most difficult step for Chloé in this relationship arc would be recognizing all of the horrible things she'd done in the past. Chloé isn't somebody who's willing to admit to her own mistakes. And if she can't get past this, then even a healthy friendship with Sabrina is almost certainly out of the question, let alone a romantic relationship. But I think that if they can get to the point of a healthy friendship, then they could also get to the point of a healthy romantic relationship.

      Of course, an unhealthy romantic relationship is also a possibility. But I don't think the showrunners would go there.

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    • Chloé and Sabrina's relationship could go any direction, but for me, I'm more interested in seeing a plot with them transforming their friendship into something healthy than a romantic progression for now. Chloé could be interested in one or both genders romantically, but she won't go far in any romance if she doesn't learn how to make healthy platonic relationships first. Don't get me wrong, I want Chloé to experience romance someday (I've already admitted that I have my guilty, unlikely-to-happen ships including her), and her interactions with Adrien show that she does have crushes, whether or not they are based on a person's personality or social status. But when it comes to her and Sabrina, I think a better story about their relationship is their friendship changing from an unbalanced mess to a balanced bond.

      Their friendship would be an interesting contrast to the friendships between Marinette and Alya and between Adrien and Nino. Those duos hit it off really quickly despite only having just met, so it would be unique for Chloé and Sabrina, two friends for years, to have to work at making their friendship on the same caring level that the other duos experience, especially as Chloé is the main problematic between them. If the end of "Antibug" suggests anything, is that there is hope that Chloé and Sabrina could positively mend their friendship for the better, but it depends if Chloé is willing to change her ways and Sabrina learns what real friendships are like and is willing to forgive Chloé while not letting her get away with treating her badly. This could or couldn't happen, and it's really up to Sabrina if it's worth staying friends with someone who treated her so carelessly for so many years, even if Chloé has a redemption arc, acknowledges her faults, and works on improving their friendship.

      On the Sabrina not being that innocent herself mentioned months ago, I'd agree that Sabrina can be awful on her own without Chloé needing to force her. However, it doesn't excuse Chloé's treatment of her, and it's sad that a girl that seems to have a shy, kind heart hasn't experienced true friendships and has been friends with Chloé long enough to have nothing against being a jerk herself. I hope Sabrina would also realize her issues and apologize for her own less-then-likable behavior, but I think it'll be easier for the people around her to forgive her than forgive the 95% terrible Chloé. What scares me is that Sabrina's lack of understanding on good friendships could lead her into another problematic friendship. Here's to hoping that there is an interesting path ahead for Sabrina, and no matter if there is some unpleasant turns she takes, she will end up on the right side of things and in good, healthy relationships, her friendship with post-redemption Chloé included or excluded.

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    • I think we had the same general idea there, Tansyflower! I also really like your point about how Sabrina is much easier to forgive.

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    • Buckmana wrote:
      I wonder how Chloe learned that everyone should do whatever she wants because she's important (or at least thinks she is).
      If I had to guess, she was raised in a home with servants who catered to her every whim and therefore, this is how she thinks the world works when it comes to other people.

      Sabrina is definitely too meek and naive to see how bad a relationship is.
      Makes me wonder if she too was also conditioned to believe being submissive is a good thing, although I doubt her father would have encouraged such behavior, so she would have learned it elsewhere.

      However, flipside, while it's not as obvious as Chloe, Sabrina does enjoy tormenting people too, a little too gleefully for it to be just copying what Chloe does.
      Which might explain why she doesn't have any other friends, being even a little bit malicious is going to push others away.

      I do wonder how Chloe and Sabrina met though, as far as I know, it's never been described onscreen.
      While Adrien did say a little something about his history with Chloe, he's never indicated if Sabrina came as part of the package deal.
      Actually, it seems like he's never acknowledged Sabrina at all.
      Which either implies Sabrina met Chloe relatively recently or Chloe purposefully didn't introduce them for some reason.


      Late reply, but Chloe probably was raised spoiled as, since the day she was born, he has always been the "mayor's daughter." (The mayor was elected for his fourth term in DarkBlade and, in France, one term for being mayor is 6 years.)

      She was always and always treated like a princess. At the moment, we have no clue where Chloe's mom is and if she is even alive. And it's not a mystery how she really became spoiled, as in the second part of Stone Heart, Andre says that an attack on Chloe is an attack on Paris itself...


      I like to believe that Chloe and Sabrina might have meet when they were little because of Rodger (Sabrina's dad) being a police and all. Maybe Rodger and Chloe's dad talked and were talking about their children, and stuff.

      If not, then they probably just met at school and Sabrina thought that Chloe was "so cool." ((I have a head cannon that Sabrina had a crush on Chloe when they were little and probably still has one, so she use to try and be best friends with Chloe.)

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