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  • A lot of people don't like the idea of Chloe possibly as the Bee Miraculous holder, but hear me out.

    I feel like, with more development, she would be an awesome superhero.

    There are different types of good people. Marinette was brave when she saved Master Fu. Adrien was kind when he helped Master Fu. I feel like Chloe's promising trait would be to challenge what is wrong with the world. Her trait is justice.

    Although she is mean, she is strong and independent. She says it like it is. Remember when The Vanisher was attacking Ladybug? She wanted to help Ladybug and jump into action, knowing that she does not have the same powers as them and that Ladybug probably wouldn't listen to her. She didn't do it out of kindness or courage, but because she knew that the Vanisher was dangerous and she needed to be stopped, even though Sabrina is her best friend and she was mean to her earlier. It's not the cookie-cutter superhero motive, but it's a more interesting motive. As a superhero, she would get the job done, regardless of emotional ties.

    I feel like, if given a good redemptive arc, she would make a good superhero. What if she was inspired by Ladybug to be better? What if Paris was threatened or someone close to her was and she stood up and said no? It is likely this would happen as she is bossy and stubborn and always stands up for what she believes. Even the action of being stubborn would be reminiscent of a bee. When a bee is left alone, it doesn't do anything. When provoked, it fights back, regardless of the consequences.

    Also, the bee is a symbol of growth and beauty. Chloe is beautiful on the outside, but perhaps it could be symbolic of her inner beauty as well, that lies beneath all her arrogance. And growth could symbolise her growth in character.

    I feel like Chloe would be a good superhero because it would be cool to see a morally challenged superhero. Marinette makes mistakes, but ultimately she is always on her best behaviour. If Chloe, however, was given the Bee Miraculous, she would have to work to be a good person. It would be interesting to see her want to be a better person and be regretful of her past actions, but still morally conflicted (like Iron Man!)

    Also the Miraculouses affect the holders in different ways. Marinette becomes more confident, Adriend becomes more witty, but Chloe could become more sweet. Besides, sweet? Honey? Bee? Get it?

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    • Astruc Himself said on his twitter that Chloe will not be a miraculous user, not even Lila having the real one. he said so himself.

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    • ChardonnayBloo wrote:
      Astruc Himself said on his twitter that Chloe will not be a miraculous user, not even Lila having the real one. he said so himself.

      That's not quite what he said. The quote was "Mean people don't and will never deserve a Miraculous." Whether they deserve it and whether they get it are two separate things. Besides, Hawkmoth is mean and still has a Miraculous, so we know that deserving it isn't the only mechanism at play.

      True to his nickname of "NoSpoiler-Man," Astruc hasn't ever said who will or will not be getting Miraculouses in the future.

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    • Since I figured out there was a Bee Miraculous, I hoped it would become Chloé's in the future. Believe me, I don't want it to go to her because she deserves it at the moment or is the best choice, but I want it to because of the interesting story that could come from it.

      Chloé is a total jerk, and she's the last person who needs a powerful Miraculous. But what would happen for her to get it? Would she become a better person and then get it, or would she get it by accident and become a better person because of it? I want to see where the writers would take her with becoming a Miraculous holder, with so many possibilities of where to take it. She doesn't need a Miraculous to change or "reward her" for changing, but I want it for the sake of it being a fun ride--it's not like change in characters without superpowers somewhere on their path is unusual, either.

      Also, her design just screams "bee" in the first place, that it's hard for me to not see it as her (the same goes with Alya screaming "fox" and Nino screaming "peacock" to me). It could be a clever ploy by the crew to throw us off, but at the same time, I'm going to be really bothered if there's a bee-looking character and a different character who is the bee superhero existing at the same time. It seems really... odd to me.

      Part of me wonders if fans of the show are right to look so deeply into these things, expecting lots of twists and turns, or if the answers are so obvious that we're not willing to accept them. I'm sure it's a bit of both, but at the moment, I personally don't mind if some of these mysterious do have obvious answers, as I'm less interested in the surprise and more interested in the story potential they bring, including a selfish, rich brat going through both an exterior and interior transformation.

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    • Chloe' having the bee miraculous does in fact make sense and i can see what you mean about her hero potnetial but you also ignore her villain potential. She is a snobby elitist and a cruel bully hwo only stands up for her beilefs and not for others, part of being a hero is yelling for somebody who cannot speak and the only person Chloe' yels for is herself, while yes Chloe would make sense as the bee miraculous i think that she neeeds to develop into a better person beacuse of it, but i've always suspected Chloe' may be a good person deep down but she supressess it, remeber we have never seen her mother and that can easily be why she is so mean to Marinette. Marinette still has both parents and she is jealous and many other people have better realtionships with the parents they do have (see my discussion missing mommas) and she is upset with her distant and dismissive relationship with her father, she wants Adrien because she feels they are the same in terms of parental relations but they work through it differently, Chloe is mean and obnoxoius and takes it out on people while Adrien seeks out friends to replace his broken family, Chloe as a hero would actually make her more intrestin, especially if we get a look at who she is deep inside, maybe with what i mentioned. My other theory on why she is so mean is that she has a crush on Marinette and her father is homophobic and she tries to supress her homosexuality by conditioning herself to love Adrien and bully Marinette, however she is now in love with Ladybug and her as a hero can get some shipping between Ladybug and Queen Bee (or whatever you want to call Chloe as a hero)

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    • I love the theory that Chloe is in love with Ladybug! It makes a lot of sense and it would be really progressive to have some LGBT+ representation in the show. I feel like, if Chloe got the Bee Miraculous, it would be a nice analogy for an LGBT+ person coming out.

      Also, the running theme of Miraculous is being yourself. When Adrien and Marinette become Miraculous holders, they become more open versions of who they really are. When Hawk Moth akumatises people, it's not only their job to return them to their former selves, but Ladybug always goes the extra mile and consoles them about coming to terms with the insecurity that caused them to be akumatised (example: Ladybug improves Juleka's confidence, she helps Ivan profess his love)

      I think Chloe admires Ladybug, not because she's a superhero, but because she is the biggest advocate for being yourself. Chloe doesn't have any strong female role models in her life that encourage her to be herself, and if she is concealing the fact that she is gay, she is struggling to come to terms with who she really is. The reason she likes Ladybug is because she encourages her to be herself.

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    • I agree that the show needs far more representation of non-straight (and also non-cis) people, but I really don't want the show's first non-straight/cis character to be somebody who's awful to everybody.

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    • whoever said Chloe is the first? whoever said Juleka and Rose were best friends? (big Julerose shipper here) while yes, Rose admired prince Ali and wanted a love lock with him whoever said she couldn't possibly be bi or pan? I never thought of the bee miraculous as an analogy for Chloe to come out i just figured she could flirt with ladybug which is still coming out but it isn't like shouting "PEOPLE OF PARIS I AM CHLOE BOURGEIOS AND I AM A LESBIAN!!!" but i certianly hope that if that is true it can help Chloe accept herself.

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    • To clarify, in my first comment I meant to say the first *confirmed* non-straight/cis character. I totally ship Julerose too, but there's still some uncertainty over whether that's canon. I was totally ready to accept that, but the whole scene with Prince Ali has made me question it somewhat…not because I didn't think Rose was bi/pan (I headcanon her as panromantic ace), but because if she and Juleka were together, why was she courting somebody else in the first place?

      Perhaps the two of them got together after the events of "Princess Fragrance," or perhaps they broke up before then. I don't think a breakup is likely, because if that had happened, I doubt they'd have been as close as they were at the beginning of that episode. And if they got together after that episode, it would require making a timeline, and the only episode we know certainly comes after "Princess Fragrance" is "Volpina." So it could reasonably happen that way.

      Unfortunately, we don't really know enough about that yet, and so I'm waiting for further confirmation in season 2 before I take Julerose to be canon. And if they confirm that Chloé isn't straight, I really hope they confirm Julerose first, so Chloé doesn't become the show's first confirmed MOGAI representation.

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    • well Rose knew that Prince Ali wasn't staying in paris and she at the very least wanted to meet him and i can very well see the duo getting together afterwards and i think Chloe would become a much better person after coming out because she no longer has to hide it and has no reason to be cruel anymore.

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    • I think that the character arc necessary to make Chloe Miraculous-worthy would take too much time, and giving it to her before then wouldn't really result in a hero.

      Also, In pretty sure that in Antibug, Chloe wanted to fight Sabrina for revenge and to show off and be close to Ladybug, not because Vanished was dangerous. Vanished was onto targeting Chloe, remember? Therefore, if Chloe did only want to stop Vanisher, she did it for herself.

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    • I am agreeing with quite a few of these points, I can definatly see Chloe getting the Bee Miraculous and the thought of her being lesbian has crossed my mind more that once. We've also seen Master Fu around Le Grand Paris in Antibug, scouting a new user perhaps?

      I see her getting it in one of two ways: 1. She, through the help of our heroes (in superhero or civilian form) sees the error of her ways, gets a redemption arc and then Fu gives her the Miraculous once he sees her as ready. Or 2. something catastrophic happens and a new hero is needed now and with little option left Fu gives Chlore the Miraculous to allow her to save the day and it's through her exprience with her Kwami and deeds she realises her errors and changes her bullying ways.

      Never considered that their inner selves manifesting with their Miraculouses could be a metaphor for her coming out but I like the idea, I agree with the theories of her nature being one born from the lack of her mother as said above and the Miraculous could help her become the good person she can be.

      Also, while I do kinda ship Julerose I think looking at it they may just simply be very good friends, they hang out a lot, help and support each other, but just because they do this doesn't mean they're in love. Don't get me wrong, the possibility still exists for them to and Rose's admiration for Ali may be one born purely of respect for what he does but I'm not 100% sold either way yet.

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    • Thomas Austruc said he wants to inclide LGBTQIA+ characters and i'm pretty sure they also wanted to give Chloe more depth as well, being a lesbian having a crush on ladybug and the bee miraculous holder would make the love square more torturous which Hawkdaddy loves and also redeems the character.

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      Thomas Austruc said he wants to inclide LGBTQIA+ characters and i'm pretty sure they also wanted to give Chloe more depth as well, being a lesbian having a crush on ladybug and the bee miraculous holder would make the love square more torturous which Hawkdaddy loves and also redeems the character.

      Really? Do you have the link to where he said that?

      Anyway I agree with you on all of that, especially the character redemption and further complicating the love sqare parts.

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    • i feel like maybe chloe could be a very nice person on the inside, but after being influenced by bad role models she could have thought she was being "cool". maybe she'd realise how terrible she was and redeem herself; or maybe marinette reminds her of someone she hates and therfore becomes bitter... she could think she needs to be snobby to uphold her reputation, too.

      the possibilities are endless. we'll just have to wait and see.

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    • Evil-Tree wrote:
      Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      Thomas Austruc said he wants to inclide LGBTQIA+ characters and i'm pretty sure they also wanted to give Chloe more depth as well, being a lesbian having a crush on ladybug and the bee miraculous holder would make the love square more torturous which Hawkdaddy loves and also redeems the character.
      Really? Do you have the link to where he said that?

      Anyway I agree with you on all of that, especially the character redemption and further complicating the love sqare parts.

      Hawkdayy tweeted it NoSpoiler_Man @Thomas_Astruc

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      Hawkdayy tweeted it NoSpoiler_Man @Thomas_Astruc

      Do you have a link to the particular tweet? I regularly read Astruc's Twitter and I've never seen that. I'd love it to be true, though!

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    • Tumblr inline o4zezxbidC1qfmfze 540

      A screenshot of the post.

      Alas, the post must've been deleted by Thomas at some point. I went back in time to when it was originally posted (April 1), but it's gone now. It did exist, though, if this is proof to go by. The image I've added is a screenshot of it.

      I've never taken the post too close to heart, however. I think it means that Miraculouses are usually meant to go to good people, not mean people. Yet Hawk Moth has one, and even if he might be using it for a good goal, like bringing his wife back, it doesn't justify his cruelty to Nooroo, his victims, and the people negatively impacted by his akumatized villains. I think this means that the good people who should get Miraculouses deserve them, like Adrien, Marinette, and Master Fu, but those who don't deserve them can get them by accident or find a way to take them.

      For me, I take it that it won't be intentional for someone mean to get a Miraculous, but it can happen due to other circumstances. For example, Hawk Moth could give a Miraculous to a person he deems worthy of helping him in his evil schemes. Another example would be that somehow, a Miraculous gets lost and ends up in a mean person's hands. Anything is possible, and I'm sure Thomas would give a horrible person a Miraculous, despite not deserving one, if he thought it would lead to a good villain, a good redemption, or other possibilities.

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    • That wasn't the tweet in question, though. Avatar thoyrn said that Astruc had tweeted that he wanted to include LGBTQIA+ characters, and the source for that statement was what people were asking about.

      That being said, you raise some really good points about the tweet you listed! I definitely agree 100% with your interpretation of that.

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    • Yeah, the tweet said that mean people don't deserve a Miraculous. That doesn't mean they can't have and use one, just that they don't deserve to have and use it.

      I did my own seach and while I found people saying he said that I couldn't see any hard evidence of that LGBTQIA+ quote.

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    • I use to be okay with the idea of Bee!Chloe. But after a while I grew to hate the idea. Chloe is a terrible person who enjoys making pople suffer like thiese post explain.

      The Chloe Is Kind Of Terrible Masterpost

      Why Chloe Bourgeois Should Not Be A Hero: An Analysis

      And personly, most of the time that I see a post saying why Chloe should get the bee, I feel like their making excuses like saying she mean because we haven't seen her mother or that her outfit looks like a bee or that she's like Pacifica or that she "cares" about Sabrina. There was even one that said the Vanisher was about Chloe being invisable instead of Sabrina and that made me furious as it felt like an insult to Sabrina character and the idea of what Akuma's are. Yeah, Chloe is so "invisable". Like when when she sabtoaged a professional chef's cooking or huliated a guy who had a crush on her or treating her only friend likie a slave and getting her dad fired. How can no one notice her

      Sure we haven't her mother but we haven't the parents of many students like Alya or Manon's dad, Sabrina, Mylenne and Alix's mom and everyone else, we haven't seen. Also, Marinette and Adrein don't wear outfits like their miraculous.And yes, she's a rich girl like Pacifca but we didn't know Pacfica beyond mean girl and her family being frauds in Season 1 and the worst thing I seen seen Pacifca do was gave everyone a death glare and gave McGucket a dollar to win a dance contest. If anything, Sabrina is more like Pacifca as the scene in "Evillustretor" where Sabrina admits to doing Marienttes homework remind me of the bit in "Golf War" where Pacifca is in the car home and has no idea what sharing was.

      I'm more willing to see Lila have a redeption arc becasue she's clearly not as awful as Chloe. Or even Sabrina who I want to see get the Bee instead because she I think she can grow more than Chloe with it by makeing her more social and focusing  on her own needs instead of Chloes.

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    • As much as I want Chloé to be the Bee Miraculous holder, I don't deny that she has truly awful faults or think anyone is wrong for not wanting her to get it. I agree that making excuses for Chloé's actions or trying to find positives on her in incidents that absolutely don't isn't a way to justify her becoming one. I don't want Chloé to become a good person because of a sad backstory. That doesn't give her a free pass for her current actions, and I'm far more interested in a bully character who became bad on their own who has to learn to change for the better.

      Honestly, the only way for a Chloé redemption to work (with or without a Miraculous attached) is up to some really good writing by the crew. I've read and watched good stories of awful people becoming better, like Pacifica and Gideon in Gravity Falls, Diamond Tiara from My Little Pony, Peridot from Steven Universe, and others. Some work better than others, and each involve different circumstances, but with smart writing, we can come to cheer and love those characters. Chloé is really bad, but I want to see what it takes for a bad character like her to officially become more likeable and goodhearted. And if writtten the right way, I think the Bee Miraculous could fit into that, just not as something Chloé legitimately deserves anywhere in her redemtpion process.

      If not, I agree that it'd be fun to see Sabrina as a hero. I guess what holds me back is that my strangely wired mind can't imagine a person with a bee motif and a bee-themed superhero being separate people in the same show. XD

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    • Todpole wrote: I use to be okay with the idea of Bee!Chloe. But after a while I grew to hate the idea. Chloe is a terrible person who enjoys making pople suffer like thiese post explain.

      Most of us aren't making excuses for her, just theorising why she is the way she is, there must be a reason for her being that way. Yes she is a horrible person almost through and through but that's what makes a redemption arc about her so appealing, to see someone so terrible to everyone around her realise her wrongdoings, maybe through her superhero work and her Kwami's advice, and work to correct them. MLB has been giving us a few subtle morals throughout season 1.

      On the other side of the spectrum I'm hoping for Lila to become a fully fledged villain, at least until she gets a redemption arc of her own. I mean what did Lila do? Lie and steal one thing. That is hardly something to be redeemed, most of the main characters would forgive her anyway. Redemption arcs are for those who slipped over the edge, Lila hasn't even begun yet.

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    • Most of us aren't making excuses for her, just theorising why she is the way she is, there must be a reason for her being that way. Yes she is a horrible person almost through and through but that's what makes a redemption arc about her so appealing, to see someone so terrible to everyone around her realise her wrongdoings, maybe through her superhero work and her Kwami's advice, and work to correct them. MLB has been giving us a few subtle morals throughout season 1.

      On the other side of the spectrum I'm hoping for Lila to become a fully fledged villain, at least until she gets a redemption arc of her own. I mean what did Lila do? Lie and steal one thing. That is hardly something to be redeemed, most of the main characters would forgive her anyway. Redemption arcs are for those who slipped over the edge, Lila hasn't even begun yet.

      what exactly are those subtle morals also who's to say Chloe can't become a villain instead of a hero? however if she were to become a hero i would like to see her maintain her cruelity. but in the terms of her redempotion i have ideas of my own where it turns out Chloe is a lesbian and is in the closet and afraid to come out to her father and her class. the first object of business to her plan was to completely destroy the dignity of her classmates to ensure that if she came out they would not dare bully her for her homosexuality. So in a way her bullying is a way to keep her safe as Collage Francios Dupont clearly does not have a zero tolerance policy to bullying or it is rarely enforced so she becomes a bully to prevent herself from being bullied. 

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:

      what exactly are those subtle morals also who's to say Chloe can't become a villain instead of a hero? however if she were to become a hero i would like to see her maintain her cruelity. but in the terms of her redempotion i have ideas of my own where it turns out Chloe is a lesbian and is in the closet and afraid to come out to her father and her class. the first object of business to her plan was to completely destroy the dignity of her classmates to ensure that if she came out they would not dare bully her for her homosexuality. So in a way her bullying is a way to keep her safe as Collage Francios Dupont clearly does not have a zero tolerance policy to bullying or it is rarely enforced so she becomes a bully to prevent herself from being bullied. 

      Rogercop: As said repeatedly Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, something both Chloe and Marinette had to learn. Pixelator: Better to put some effort in and get something right the first time with regards to Jagged's glasses. The Mine: Admit your mistakes instead of lying to your friends. Kung Food: Don't rile up people unnecessarily (there's a good change Chloe wouldn't have sabotaged Wang Chengs dish if Marinette didn't talk back as she did)

      They're not every episode but when they do come they're relevant, often enough to give the show a good feel but not so often we feel they're being shoved down our throats.

      I don't like the idea of Chloe becoming a fully fledged villain, it seems like a way to justify getting rid of a character someone doesn't like kinda like how some bad fanfics turn the opposition to an OTP into an abusive OOC thug. Mind you I know Hawkdaddy would never pull something like that and if she did go full villain it could be quite interesting but the ending to Volpina seems to cement that role to Lila.

      I'm really liking that theory, would make for an outstanding arc for her and the whole bully or be bullied mentality is something important to address in itself. The acts of being discovered, denying it, an akuma or two and finally admiting it, I would actually like this to be right. I also like the idea of her staying mean in her civilian persona after she got her Kwami until the reveal of the above, I can just see her Kwami complaining that it's time to clean up the mess she's made after she causes an akuma.

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    • I just think Chloe a spoiled brat with too much power. For a redemption arc, I think she become ioslated and it'll be all her fault. Adrien would want anything to with her anymore, Sabrina can be serperated from Chloe and learns what real friendship is like and leaves Chloe and everyone just has enough of her and starts shunning her. And becuase of her monsterous ego, she won't understand why no one wants to be around her and might even become an Akuma again(hopefully better than Antibug) and not even Ladybug can knock some sense into her.

      And soon maybe she might get her claws on the Butterfly Brooch. You know, the one that  turns people into Hawkmoth. The one that already has a bad reputation in Paris by turning people into supervilians. The one Paris will most likly hate. And sense butterflys symbolise change and transformation, it might be the only Miraculous that could help Chloe because she needs to change.

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    • i would like the idea if Chloe did become a hero but was still just as nasty because it would break the mold saying a superhero has to be a perfect little angel.

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote: i would like the idea if Chloe did become a hero but was still just as nasty because it would break the mold saying a superhero has to be a perfect little angel.

      I agree, but that mold's been broken many times before, though. Case studies: Deadpool, Punisher.

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    • It hasn't really been seen in cartoons or kids television before. Most cartoons and kids shows are so concerned with political correctness to make their characters truly flawed. Also, it is rare that you see any nasty female hero characters. Whenever there are nasty female characters, they are usually cast as stereotypes, lie "mean girls" or "dragon ladies", but they're never heroes, like Deadpool or Punisher. Regina from Once Upon a Time is a mean but selfless female heroine and she's the best character on the show. It would be refreshing to see a female antihero in cartoons.

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    • Okay, I think its offical, everyone thinks Chloe is going to be the wield of the Bee Miraculous. I have seen it so many places its not even funny..... I like the idea. Some people don't I guess. I'm hoping the wielder of the Fox Miraculous is a guy. That would be cool, I would like to see a hero that is kind of similar to Naruto in a fight. But that uses Illusions as well, and perhaps Kitsune Fire if the Fox Miraculous is based on the Kitsune, which I'm guess it is.

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    • Tansyflower wrote:
      Tumblr inline o4zezxbidC1qfmfze 540

      A screenshot of the post.

      Alas, the post must've been deleted by Thomas at some point. I went back in time to when it was originally posted (April 1), but it's gone now. It did exist, though, if this is proof to go by. The image I've added is a screenshot of it.

      I've never taken the post too close to heart, however. I think it means that Miraculouses are usually meant to go to good people, not mean people. Yet Hawk Moth has one, and even if he might be using it for a good goal, like bringing his wife back, it doesn't justify his cruelty to Nooroo, his victims, and the people negatively impacted by his akumatized villains. I think this means that the good people who should get Miraculouses deserve them, like Adrien, Marinette, and Master Fu, but those who don't deserve them can get them by accident or find a way to take them.

      For me, I take it that it won't be intentional for someone mean to get a Miraculous, but it can happen due to other circumstances. For example, Hawk Moth could give a Miraculous to a person he deems worthy of helping him in his evil schemes. Another example would be that somehow, a Miraculous gets lost and ends up in a mean person's hands. Anything is possible, and I'm sure Thomas would give a horrible person a Miraculous, despite not deserving one, if he thought it would lead to a good villain, a good redemption, or other possibilities.

      Can someone send me the picture in the tweet, I can't read it and I'd really like to. I tried finding it, but I find it.

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    • Here is the link to the image and its talented creator.

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    • Thank you.

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    • it just makes me wonder how any bad person can manage to get their hands on a miraculous

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    • Well, how did Hawkmoth do it? Personally, I suspect he stole it. Perhaps Chloé could do the same.

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    • Hawkmoth stated that he found the moth miraculous and i doubt that Chloe actually do something herself that required her to do anything that if it failed could neagtively impact her so if anything she would have Sabrina steal it for her

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote: Hawkmoth stated that he found the moth miraculous and i doubt that Chloe actually do something herself that required her to do anything that if it failed could neagtively impact her so if anything she would have Sabrina steal it for her

      That's completely possible! But I don't think a Miraculous is something you can just find by chance. There's gotta be a more complex backstory of how Hawkmoth got it.

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    • Lilanette wrote:

      Avatar thoyrn wrote: Hawkmoth stated that he found the moth miraculous and i doubt that Chloe actually do something herself that required her to do anything that if it failed could neagtively impact her so if anything she would have Sabrina steal it for her

      That's completely possible! But I don't think a Miraculous is something you can just find by chance. There's gotta be a more complex backstory of how Hawkmoth got it.

      I see Hawk Moth finding Nooroo on the trail of Mrs Agreste, she is definatly important to him and it could be that he found the Miraculous while doing something related to her, maybe she gave it to him. (That's a though, what if Mrs Agreste isn't as innocent as she appears in those photos, what if she's as evil as Hawk Moth and that's the mistake Master Fu was talking about.)

      As for how Chloe could get it I see three options: 1. She does steal it, not sure how that would be possible, maybe Master Fu lets her do so as a test of character, 2. Fu gives it to her either seeing the potential for goodness or something happens to LB and CN and he just runs out of options or 3. Pure chance. A lot of discoveries and events happen this way, it seems very conincidental that Master Fu and Hawk Moth both chose Paris as their main base of operation. Maybe when transporting his box the bee miraculous could fall out and Chloe finds it by accident.

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    • to me it seems more of a test of character or she finds if after dropping it

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    • Unsure if this has been said but the idea of Chloé being redeemed and THEN being the bee bugs me just as much as her getting it while being mean.

      I think of it like this:

      It's normal and proper to be nice, right?

      Alya doesn't get superpowers for being super supportive of Marinette and being a key part of Marinette getting closer / more comfortable around Adrien. Nino doesn't get superpowers for sticking up for his friend and helping Adrien make up with Marinette (in fact, he gets akumatized for the former). Ivan doesn't get powers for supporting Mylène when she's upset. I could continue this, but you get my point.

      The idea of Chloé being redeemed and then everyone rewarding her for it since she changed, but ignoring all of the supportive things that other people have done that doesn't stand out because they weren't initially horrible people will only teach children that you get rewarded for acting like Chloé.

      Chloé shouldn't be gifted superpowers for learning to be what people SHOULD be naturally. A miraculous holder should be someone who constantly goes out of their way to help others.

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    • But Adrien never helped anyone before he got his miraculous with the exception of Master Fu, not that he had much oppitunity to, and while supportive he hasn't exactly helped people the same way Marinette or the others do.

      I don't think that's a solid law to base this on, and besides this isn't some definate thing that abides by laws it's a cartoon. If Chloe getting a miraculous generates good drama and fits the situation then there's no reason why it shouldn't happen, seeing someone deal with superpowers and responsibilites of such that didn't deserve or, at first, cope with could make good television.

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      to me it seems more of a test of character or she finds if after dropping it

      Yeah that's my favourite possible vision of this thing happening (if it does happen of course).

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    • Well Adrien DID help someone when he was being scolded and could loose everything, I think that's pretty worthy of a miraculous.

      And my other point still stands, being given a gift just because you learned how to be nice from being mean isn't really rewarding.

      Remember this is a kids show, meaning that it has to teach decent lessons. I don't think giving someone who didn't deserve a miraculous to create drama isn't that good of an example.

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    • When did he do that?

      This is why Chloe getting a miraculous, by accident or being given one, before becoming good is a nice direction, her Kwami could be less than thrilled at having her and try and teach her to be good in both superhero and civilian outlooks so that eventually she earns it, not through the lessons she learns but the actions she preforms.

      I agree with the last part, this show has done a good job at giving out morals. Timebreaker: your possessions are your responsibility and you should take care of them, Rogercop: Innocent until proven guilty, Pixelator: Better to do thing right first time. I could see them working a moral or two into the situation Chloe would be in with her as the real recipiant for once.

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    • I agree. To be honest, I was never a big fan of kids' shows who give "lessons." That's why I think Miraculous is refreshing; Marinette is not your typical Mary Sue good girl. She is kind and brave, but she is clumsy and she makes mistakes. Sometimes, she acts selfishly and cuts corners in order to get something done. But it doesn't make her bad; it makes her human.

      I also like the fact that the show doesn't force-feed morals down the audiences' throat. Instead of being preachy, it shows the consequences of our actions and their effects on other people by akumatizing them. It gives a positive message rather than a lecture.

      We don't actually know what's going on in Chloe's head. Do we know what she's like when she's alone at night? What goes through her mind? Is she truly mean or is being mean has become more of an impulse or a defense mechanism for her? Does she regret her actions and want to be better?

      I feel like getting a kwami would be good for her. The person that Marinette is closest to is Tikki; she is almost an extension of Marinette's personality. They share practically everything. I feel like if Chloe got a kwami, an extension of her own personality, we will begin to see who she really is; good or bad.

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    • I think it's wrong to assume for Chloé accidentally getting the Bee Miraculous means it's a lesson to kids that it's award for her; it was simply an accident, and Chloé's response to such an accident will show us what it will do for her, not that she deserves it during that time. I think that's why I want her to get it that way. Any other way does come off as a terrible idea or the unintentional message of a change in behavior always gets great benefits, unless, as I always say, the writers are clever enough to pull it off. I don't know if Chloé has strong emotional or mental reasons for being such a bully, or if she just is without any baggage, but I'd like to see if an unplanned opportunity for her to become something she asks the total opposite of, a hero, will affect her in a positive fashion. Choé's redemption, a Miraculous included or excluded, doesn't need to be a lesson for kids, but it can be an experience of how the worst people have good in them and have the potential to improve.

      Also, has everyone seen Chloé's upcoming winter outfit? Jeremy labelled it as a little spoiler, which he must mean for the Christmas episode. But if Chloé doesn't end up being the Bee Miraculous holder, my perfectionist, weird, a-bee-looking-character-must-be-the-same-as-a-bee-looking-superhero side is going to glitch out wildly. It's nothing that different, but the yellow fluff at the top is taunting us with how bee-like Chloé looks. X'D

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    • i've thought of the outcome of Chloe accidentally getting a miraculous and for some reason even if she makes a good hero i feel Master Fu who knows how terrible she is will try to get it back and she will refuse because she likes being a hero and then be on a mission to get the bee miraculous here where Fu will eventually approve of Chloe having the Bee miraculous but as i said earlier i hope that if she gets the bee miraculous the headcannon i have of Chloe being a lesbian and having a crush on Ladybug would rein true with her miraculous as a way for her to be herself at it's purest form serving as an openly gay hero

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    • I think Chloe more or less lives in the shadow of her father. Her solution to that is to manipulate that shadow to benefit herself. Also, since her father tends to never say no to her, growing up nobody probably told her what she did or said was wrong.  if she were to get the bee miraculous, it would be her option to better herself or to prove her own worth. she's a huge fan of ladybug right? having super powers a different identity would give her the option to work alongside to ladybug. I think it would be very interesting if Chloe were to become the Bee Superhero, it would lead to some nice character development. 

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    • That picture of Chloe's winter outfits proves nothing to me. It's the person's persoanitys and how a mirauclous can balance them that matters to me , not how they look or what they wear.

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    • Chloe already kinda acts like a queen bee so how could she be balanced out and still act like a bee unless she were more human after obtainig her miraculous making her less of a pest

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    • This.... Actually Makes Sense. What if Chloe has a crush on Marinette?

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    • Lilrq28 wrote:
      This.... Actually Makes Sense. What if Chloe has a crush on Marinette?

      This is off-topic but I love your profile pic

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    • I honestly don't think chloe should ever receive or come close to a miraculous, I think she would abuse the power, like she already does with her being the mayor's daughter.

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    • Dragon Kwami16 wrote:
      I honestly don't think chloe should ever receive or come close to a miraculous, I think she would abuse the power, like she already does with her being the mayor's daughter.

      She might abuse the power but she might not. There's every chance she still behaves like herself when in costume and try to exploit it to the disaproval of her Kwami. However Adrien and Marinette change personality and traits a lot when in costume, maybe Chloe would change as well to something more suited, either right away or after a few missions with the duo.

      I won't repeat what I or others have said above but I do think her being the Bee Miraculous holder would benifit her character and plot of the show. Plus we could get some comedy as she tries to work out her powers like the Trompo going beszerk in her room or, if she can fly, keep getting into funny crashes.

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    • Lilanette wrote:
      ChardonnayBloo wrote:
      Astruc Himself said on his twitter that Chloe will not be a miraculous user, not even Lila having the real one. he said so himself.
      That's not quite what he said. The quote was "Mean people don't and will never deserve a Miraculous." Whether they deserve it and whether they get it are two separate things. Besides, Hawkmoth is mean and still has a Miraculous, so we know that deserving it isn't the only mechanism at play.

      True to his nickname of "NoSpoiler-Man," Astruc hasn't ever said who will or will not be getting Miraculouses in the future.

      He obviously stole the miraculous by somebody. Even if he does have it... he still doesn't deserve to be able to use it. A lot of people are saying that it's Gabriel Agreste, but I doubt it. I think that he originally owned the Moth Miraculous but someone stole it from him, that someone could've been his twin brother, which explains their similarities. And in any case, I have a feeling that you might want to FORGET that "redemption arc". Mean girls don't change, they try to hide the fact that they're still little demons and once their victims finally snap... those witches get buried. I highly doubt that Chloe will ever change, especially since won't even acknowlegde her past misdeads. Mona Vanderwaal from Pretty Little Liars once said that if someone shows you who they really are, believe them. And Chloe has already shown me who she really was: a sociopath and a witch. And if she does get a redemption arc, she better do a lot of apologizing... especially to Marinette, Alya, Kim, Sabrina, and any one else she got akumatized. If you ask me... the only way she'll change is if her daddy finally whoops her hindquarters or she faces a near-death experience that will cause her to change.

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    • I disagree that mean characters (and mean people in real life) can't ever change, but I also disagree with the belief that a mean character is instantly good after realizing and trying to change.

      One of my favorite events from the book The Voyage of the Dawn Treader by C. S. Lewis is an arc where Eustace, a terrible person, goes through an eye-opening experience where he realizes how awful he is. Because of this discovery, he desires to change, and works to become a better person. He apologizes to the people he's wronged, and he works to be useful and kind to those around him. Is he perfectly good afterwards? Here's a quote that was at the end of his arc:

      "It would be nice, and fairly true, to say that 'from that time forth Eustace was a different boy'. To be strictly accurate, he began to be a different boy. He had relapses. There were still many days when he could be very tiresome. But most of those I shall not notice. The cure had begun" (Lewis).

      Eustace did change, and if you read the rest of this book and other books he's in, you can tell the difference in his attitude, personality, and interactions with others. But in those books, you can still see him struggle and be awful every now and then, though he never stays in those moments for long and continues to strive to be good. There are people who fake changing, but there truly are other people who legitimately realize their wrongdoing, acknowledge it with other people, and work to improve into a better person, even though it's not a smooth road to take.

      Perhaps it's because of characters like Eustace that I love reading character redemption arcs and hope that Chloé has one coming her way. She is terrible, but even the worst of people can find out how wrong they are in being so terrible. She has hurt a lot of people, but it's not impossible to figure that out and try to make ammends with everyone as best as you can. She may not want to change now, but she isn't set in stone to be a mean person forever. I don't need her to have a sad backstory; nothing can justify her being mean to anybody, though life elements can show why someone became the way they are. But I hope that her eyes can be truly opened to how despicable she is, and she can start the journey of becoming a better person, even though like any real person, she'll have relapses.

      Maybe it'll take Chloé getting a Miraculous to start seeing the truth, or maybe it won't at all. Either way, I yearn to see Miraculous tackle Chloé by putting her through an entertaining, believable redemption arc for the sake of seeing another fine example of a mean person gaining the determination to improve, repent, and be someone worth rooting for.

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    • Well, I don't see any of that with Chloe. Even after the victim gets deakumitized, she still treats them like dirt. She never acknowledges that it's her fault. Even when someone calls her out for who horrible treatment of them, she still doesn't acknowledge it and claims that she's a good person, even if it's clear that she isn't. You can't make a good person out of a bully, you can only make a bully out of a victim. The kind of redemption I'm seeing is her being a life threatening accident or having a gun put to her head. Too bad Nick (or any kid channel for that matter) won't take it that far. Besides, there's no way any of the characters are going to believe she's changed, espeically Marinette and Alya, constant victims, one of which got akumatized by her. Heck, the girl's caused way more akuma attacks than Kim, who was responsible for the first one, Marinette, who was responsible for her's and Lila's, and Adrien, who caused the Copycat's appearance. I'm sorry, but until we get confirmation that she will change, I'm just going to have to say no. She's caused so much suffering it's amazing how many of those victims didn't kill and/or bury her. Besides, something tells me that the next time she causes an akuma she might not be so lucky. All in all, that witch never learns her lesson. Besides, even if she does change... there are going to be certain people that won't believe her. As in Marinette and the people she got akumatized. Not everyone changes. And there's obviously no way, Chloe will. Face it, the girl is and always will be a bully.

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    • even if she did change i can't see her turning out all that great of a person no matter what

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    • Lilrq28 wrote:
      This.... Actually Makes Sense. What if Chloe has a crush on Marinette?

      I actually have a head cannon that she does and only pretends to like Adrien because she is afraid to come out and bullies the one she loves and everyone else so they won't dare discriminate. remember they're in middle school and it's pretty rough to be different in any way in middle school with kids looking for any weaknesses or vulnerabilities to prey upon. Chloe may have thought if she became a bully she wouldn't be bullied if she came out.

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    • The Bee Miraculos holder is not Chloe. She was akumitized and I think that the kwamis help their owners to have a balanced personality so that they will not be akumitized. So if Chloe had the bee she wouldn't have been akumitized. My theory is that the bee miraculos holder is the lady that appered in the Guitar Villain. Did anyone else seen this lady passing by Marinette? It was in an akward moment, in total silence, her face was very clear, the frame was more on her as Marinette was drawn with her back at the frame. It is only me or it's like it's a message that this lady will be someone in the next season. Because background people don't appear out of no where so simple, wih the frame more on them, on her face than the principal caracter (Marinette), just to be or remain a simple caracter.

      Screenshot 2016-09-06-22-31-03
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    • It's never been confirmed that a character tyat has been akumatized can't get a Miraculous, whether someone gives it to them, they steal it, or get it by accident. Marinette and Adrien may have the right qualifications to be given Miraculouses, which is important, but they aren't always perfectly balanced personally. I think both have had moments throughout the series that would make them susceptible to bring akumatized. Hawk Moth isn't qualified or balanced, but he still can use the Miraculous, with his kwami having no choice in the matter. The best choices for Miraculous holders should be morally strong and emotionally sound, but it's not always the case, as seen with Hawk Moth, and even people chosen to wield Miraculouses are going to have negatively emotional moments or actions sometimes.

      As for the woman, it may be possible, though I don't think it'll be her. She, like other Le Grand Paris employees (the butler and doorman), has appeared a few times. However, shots where a character notices someone in the background while going someone are not uncommon.

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    • Honestly, I really hope Chloé is the Bee Miraculous holder. I know a lot of people doesn't want her to become a hero, but since the Bee Miraculous holder is a hero and if it's really Chloé under the mask, wouldn't there be a chance of redemption for the girl?

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:

      Lilrq28 wrote:
      This.... Actually Makes Sense. What if Chloe has a crush on Marinette?

      I actually have a head cannon that she does and only pretends to like Adrien because she is afraid to come out and bullies the one she loves and everyone else so they won't dare discriminate. remember they're in middle school and it's pretty rough to be different in any way in middle school with kids looking for any weaknesses or vulnerabilities to prey upon. Chloe may have thought if she became a bully she wouldn't be bullied if she came out.

      I feel like this would be such a beautiful representation of LGBTQ+ characters in a children's show. It would be both beneficial for the storyline and the viewers. I'm not saying that her character should be gay in order to gain sympathy for her. She's done some pretty horrible things. But it would flesh out her character more; you don't like the things she does but you understand why does them. She becomes more than the two dimensional mean girl. Instead, she is a flawed, complex, genuine person dealing with struggles that loads of kids can relate to.

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    • Bee Miraculous Holder ZAG Poster
      Well, while nothing is confirmed, but the finalized Bee Miraculous holder in the ZAG Heroez poster was revealed by Jeremy on his Instagram. It's really hard to not look at that face with the narrow blue eyes, nude lips, and long bangs and see it as Chloé. Also, Jeremy put #queenbee in the description, so if her name is Queen Bee, I'm ecstatic!

      From Thomas, the NoSpoiler-Man, we do have some precautions. In response to someone asking "is she who we think she is?", Thomas replied, "Yes or No, each response would be a spoiler and I don't do that. But interesting concept art. Like Félix was." Someone asked from that if in short, that face is a placeholder, to which Thomas answered, "Yep." In another response, this time to someone asking people if they are happy Chloé is the Bee Miraculous, Thomas commented, "And here we go for several months of buzz before episodes finally reveal what it'll truly be like. Oh! See what I did? I made a bee joke!"

      I have no idea what to think about Thomas' responses, other than they are ambiguous and laced with hard-to-decipher meanings. This man should also be know as VagueCommentsAndRiddles-Man. On the last one, I will at least note that he phrased the last part like how Chloé in "The Evillustrator" stated, "See what I did? I made a cat joke!" And on the Félix mention, I'm confused. Does he mean that the Chloé-superhero idea was dumped like Félix, that she goes through an arc that shares elements to Félix, or is he just trying to throw us off? Or, in the reply related to that, is that face a placeholder, or is that a lie? I really have no idea...

      If I go by image alone, though, it really does look like and seem like Chloé will be Queen Bee. I guess only Season 2 will finally shed some light on whether this is true or we're being tricked mercilessly, though.

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    • The Bee superhero in that picture resembles Chloé, doesn't it?

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    • Well, if it is that witch, then she better prove to me that she can actually change. And she's going to have to prove that to EVERYBODY, especially Marinette.

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    • Well... I guess no one heard of Amber Bourgeois? Kenya Dadino posted drawings of her on her twitter.

      Amber Bourgeois by Kenya Danino
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    • We're trying to confirm if Amber is canon or not.

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    • Amber would be Chloé's nicer twin sister? Older or younger? And that outfit would totally be too much suspicious. New miraculous bee-themed superheroine arrives, and so is this girl dressed like a bee? Too much obvious. 

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      Amber would be Chloé's nicer twin sister? Older or younger? And that outfit would totally be too much suspicious. New miraculous bee-themed superheroine arrives, and so is this girl dressed like a bee? Too much obvious. 

      Maybe they could use her as a red herring for the heroes, maybe after the bee miraculous user appeared they've been trying to find out who it is (maybe Fu told them too thinking the current user may not be up to scratch). They find Amber and consider her traits as matching the bee hero only to be proven wrong when Chloe shows up in full bee getup.

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    • We can only wait and see, i hope Chloe will get the bee miraculous!

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    • I guess Chloe really isn't above stealing as that is the only way she can get a miraculous

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    • Peeps, WHO ELSE IN PARIS LOOKS THAT GORGEOUS, WEARING A PONYTAIL. I HONESTLY DON'T KNOW ANY OTHERS! IT'S GOT TO BE CHLOE (or some new girl who looks like her).

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    • I've been doing research on bee symbolism and Chloe would be perfect for the bee miraculous (I will explain). For millions of years bees have been symbolized as royalty and Chloe kind of acts like royalty. When I looked up about bee symbolism I found that if you see a bee it means you need to work harder in life, be more loving, be more cooperative and to show you that there is no "I" in "teamwork" Chloe needs all of that and she's always trying to move away from everyone else for an example in the episode horrificater Chloe was trying to move away from everyone else like "I don't need them" and she's not very cooperative but if she gets the bee miraculous she would try to stick together with everyone and be more cooperative and Chloe needs to work harder and and be nicer and if she gets the bee miraculous she would work harder and be more loving. If it wasn't for the fact that almost everyone hates Chloe and the creators can change things up at the last minute then I would probably say that Chloe is definitely going to get the bee miraculous. I know she probably won't be nice at her school at first but the bee kwami can slowly influence her to be better.

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    • Chloe as a hero of paris ya right, she only cares for herself

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    • Forget it. That witch is never going to get the bee miraculous. I definitely want her to have a twin sister, besides, that girl is just going to stay mean and keep causing akumas. She won't own up to whatever she did and instead burn someone else at the stake.

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    • we don't know if Chloe is going to stay mean and keep causing akumas or that she won't  own up and burn someone else because the creators could change it up but if Chloe gets the bee miraculous it will show people that even the worst of people can turn good and yes she's going to need a atitude adjustment first

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    • Littlecharmersfan wrote: Chloe as a hero of paris ya right, she only cares for herself

      Obviously she doesn't just care about herself she just doesn't express her emotions that much like in the episode antibug after Sabrina went to sit down where she was Chloe opened one eye and smiled.

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    • I agree with SweetNyal, that symbolism of Chloe's current attitude and appearence with the lore surrounding bees fits too perfectly for it to be coincidence. I do see Chloe changing with the Miraculous but gradually, becoming nicer in her civilan form with guidance from her Kwami and maybe only being truly accepted by the rest of her peers at the end of the season.

      It's also strange the US is showing Antibug, the first episode where Chloe acts nice Sabrina, near the end just before Volpina. Did they think this would work best or do they also suspect she might become good and this would set it up better? Just a nagging thought I've been having.

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    • I agree with you, @SweetStrella14

      It would be cool if Chole changes in the second season due to being the Bee Miraculous Holder. Just like Marinette and Adrien, she will probably become a more open self. Even the worst of people change, you got that right.

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    • Loosecannon8 wrote:
      I love the theory that Chloe is in love with Ladybug! It makes a lot of sense and it would be really progressive to have some LGBT+ representation in the show. I feel like, if Chloe got the Bee Miraculous, it would be a nice analogy for an LGBT+ person coming out.

      Also, the running theme of Miraculous is being yourself. When Adrien and Marinette become Miraculous holders, they become more open versions of who they really are. When Hawk Moth akumatises people, it's not only their job to return them to their former selves, but Ladybug always goes the extra mile and consoles them about coming to terms with the insecurity that caused them to be akumatised (example: Ladybug improves Juleka's confidence, she helps Ivan profess his love)

      I think Chloe admires Ladybug, not because she's a superhero, but because she is the biggest advocate for being yourself. Chloe doesn't have any strong female role models in her life that encourage her to be herself, and if she is concealing the fact that she is gay, she is struggling to come to terms with who she really is. The reason she likes Ladybug is because she encourages her to be herself.

      You do realize that Chloe's is infatuated with Adrien? And is most probably straight?

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    • I actually like the idea of Chloe getting a miraculous. I know a lot of people are against it, vehemently so, jeez you can literally feel the venom seep through, but it would teach her responsibility and maybe she would become kinder and more sensitive to other people's needs. 

      I disagree . Bad people can change if they put their minds to it. Instead of being so opposed to Chloe getting a miraculous, give her a chance. Yes she's responsible for a lot of akuma attacks but I don't believe that people can't change. -_-


      Instead of seeing the worst in people, try and see the best. Isn't that what's taught to us? To give people a chance? To see if they will change? Don't judge her yet, she might not be as evil as she's made out to be. 

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    • TiffanyJung20 wrote:
      I actually like the idea of Chloe getting a miraculous. I know a lot of people are against it, vehemently so, jeez you can literally feel the venom seep through, but it would teach her responsibility and maybe she would become kinder and more sensitive to other people's needs. 

      I disagree . Bad people can change if they put their minds to it. Instead of being so opposed to Chloe getting a miraculous, give her a chance. Yes she's responsible for a lot of akuma attacks but I don't believe that people can't change. -_-


      Instead of seeing the worst in people, try and see the best. Isn't that what's taught to us? To give people a chance? To see if they will change? Don't judge her yet, she might not be as evil as she's made out to be. 

      I've tried to find some piece of good in her, but honestly... I don't think I see any. I mean, I get that Marinette and Adrien have caused some akumas, too, though Marinette's are usually accidental and she usually owns up to her mistakes (I'm not counting Lila/fake Volpina) and Adrien's just caused only one akuma (that we know of). I don't know if I can see that with Chloe... or Kim for that matter. He did cause the first akuma. I mean, I saw him change for the better, but Chloe is going to have to do a lot to convince me and her victims that she's a reformed Queen Bee and do not make me bring PLL into the mix here. I'd like to see her change... that is if and I repeat if​ they give her a good redemption arc. I'll give her a chance, but only if she shows at least ​one​ sign that she's capable of owning up to her past misdeeds. I really don't want to have visit her in her dreams.

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    • It was shown in Antibug that Chloe thinks she's a good person, right?

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    • yes :D

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    • But, in reality, she isn't. Isn't a redemption arc supposed to show people owning up to their mistakes.

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    • Yellowwinx8 wrote:
      But, in reality, she isn't. Isn't a redemption arc supposed to show people owning up to their mistakes.

      I fully agree, though I don't think the posters above were saying that this means she's a good person. Honestly, this mind process by Chloé will make a redemption arc more interesting. To see her realize that she isn't the good person that everyone adores like she thought is going to be huge for her. It may push her to become what she always falsey believed herself to be.

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    • Tansyflower wrote:
      Yellowwinx8 wrote:
      But, in reality, she isn't. Isn't a redemption arc supposed to show people owning up to their mistakes.
      I fully agree, though I don't think the posters above were saying that this means she's a good person. Honestly, this mind process by Chloé will make a redemption arc more interesting. To see her realize that she isn't the good person that everyone adores like she thought is going to be huge for her. It may push her to become what she always falsey believed herself to be.

      Yeah, if this redemption arc is happening it needs to be a hardly fought one, her change from what she is now wouldn't be believable if it wasn't. I can picture a scene of Chloe having a breakdown when the realisation hits her and it's only through the intervention of the bee Kwami that she gets over it. To see this image she's built of herself get shattered so thoroughly would be so deep and powerful to see.

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    • Tansyflower wrote:
      Yellowwinx8 wrote:
      But, in reality, she isn't. Isn't a redemption arc supposed to show people owning up to their mistakes.
      I fully agree, though I don't think the posters above were saying that this means she's a good person. Honestly, this mind process by Chloé will make a redemption arc more interesting. To see her realize that she isn't the good person that everyone adores like she thought is going to be huge for her. It may push her to become what she always falsey believed herself to be.

      Yes that's exactly what I was trying to say . Chloep isn't a nice person. She's cruel, she's mean, horrible to others,and yes right now, she doesn't deserve a Miraculous.But getting a Miraculous might just be the push she needs to become a better person.

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    • As of now, Chloe is probably the most shallow character. Her mean girl persona is extremely two-dimensional, which is why I had the hardest believing she would forever remain as the mean girl. So I'm extremely excited that she'll be getting a Miraculous :D

      I also love the theory that she's in love with Ladybug. The only time Chloe was ever vulnerable (showed weakness) was when Ladybug hurt her feelings, and it's always been kind of odd how someone as self-absorbant as Chloe admired Ladybug. I mean, you probably can dismiss her feelings towards Ladybug as an obsession with a celebrity, but I think there's more to it than that. Especially since Chloe went as far as to dress up as Ladybug.

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    • I'm not that fond of the theory that Chloe's is in love with ladybug. She admires Ladybug and if she is a lesbian, is merely infatuated with her. However given the fact that she is infatuated with Adrien she's most probably straight or bisexual. 

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    • It's possible to be infatuated with someone and admire them at the same time. But yeah, her currently being infatuated with Adrien does throw a wrench in this theory. It's also another thing I've not quite understood about Chloe; the only significance Chloe being all over Adrien has is it annoys Marinette. Other that, it just adds to the shallowness of her character. Maybe in season 2, we'll get a rejection scene, and that could be the start of a brand new Chloe ;3

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    • Chloe is going to have to be totally unrecognisable next season if she's going to be a Miraculous holder. For a start, she's going to have to put others first, be nicer to everyone and do a LOT of apologising for her previous errant behaviour.

      This is a Zuko-level of redeeming story we're going to need if it'll convince me. I wish the writers all the luck in the world. They're certainly going to need it. I can't wait to see what they have planned.

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    • I can see Chloe getting along just fine with Ali, they look good together, they both are from high society and if Chloe is really going to get the Bee kwami and Ali the peackcock kwami, they w could share an bond much like Catnoir and Ladybug!

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    • Mybe she'll show a hidden, kinder side of her personality, like Adrien being cockier as Cat Noir and Marinette being braver as Ladybug. Since nobody knows her civilian identity, maybe she won't pretend she's better than everyone else.

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    • Randomness Unlimited wrote:
      Mybe she'll show a hidden, kinder side of her personality, like Adrien being cockier as Cat Noir and Marinette being braver as Ladybug. Since nobody knows her civilian identity, maybe she won't pretend she's better than everyone else.

      maybe but won't anyone be suspicious because Chloé will miss her classes more often. also isn't she a huge fan of Ladybug? It'll be awkward for her since she's working with Ladybug to save the Paris! 😶

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    • PelizTheMiraculousPanda wrote:
      Randomness Unlimited wrote:
      Mybe she'll show a hidden, kinder side of her personality, like Adrien being cockier as Cat Noir and Marinette being braver as Ladybug. Since nobody knows her civilian identity, maybe she won't pretend she's better than everyone else.
      maybe but won't anyone be suspicious because Chloé will miss her classes more often. also isn't she a huge fan of Ladybug? It'll be awkward for her since she's working with Ladybug to save the Paris! 😶

      I kinda want to see that awkwardness from her hero form, suddenly Ladybug is speaking to her and she's expected to fight alongside her and fight as hard as her, cue stuttering on Marinette talking to Adrien levels. I see her getting nervous yet happy at having to work with the heroes and maybe she'll take Ladybug's words more to heart as she's no longer someone she expects to do the job for her but a comrade to work with.

      Good point though about absences though, I'm assuming that when she does become a hero she fights just as often as the others do. Marinette can hide it through habits, based in fact, of oversleeping and forgetfulness and Adrien has his modelling schedule to throw off suspicion at school and school schedule to throw off suspicion at home. Chloe however is shadowed almost constantly by Sabrina, her dad keeps a watchful eye over her and, despite her other flaws, she always show up for school and social events. Absences from her would certainly raise more suspicions than with Adrien and Marinette.

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    • Evil-Tree wrote:
      PelizTheMiraculousPanda wrote:
      Randomness Unlimited wrote:
      Mybe she'll show a hidden, kinder side of her personality, like Adrien being cockier as Cat Noir and Marinette being braver as Ladybug. Since nobody knows her civilian identity, maybe she won't pretend she's better than everyone else.
      maybe but won't anyone be suspicious because Chloé will miss her classes more often. also isn't she a huge fan of Ladybug? It'll be awkward for her since she's working with Ladybug to save the Paris! 😶
      I kinda want to see that awkwardness from her hero form, suddenly Ladybug is speaking to her and she's expected to fight alongside her and fight as hard as her, cue stuttering on Marinette talking to Adrien levels. I see her getting nervous yet happy at having to work with the heroes and maybe she'll take Ladybug's words more to heart as she's no longer someone she expects to do the job for her but a comrade to work with.

      Good point though about absences though, I'm assuming that when she does become a hero she fights just as often as the others do. Marinette can hide it through habits, based in fact, of oversleeping and forgetfulness and Adrien has his modelling schedule to throw off suspicion at school and school schedule to throw off suspicion at home. Chloe however is shadowed almost constantly by Sabrina, her dad keeps a watchful eye over her and, despite her other flaws, she always show up for school and social events. Absences from her would certainly raise more suspicions than with Adrien and Marinette.

      she'll get some development obviously. How funny would it be if Cat Noir fell for the bee miraculous holder (Chloe) that would be funny wouldn't it :D

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    • Chloe wants Ladybug just as much as Chat and I bet she can figure out some way to balance her double life.

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    • PelizTheMiraculousPanda wrote:
      Evil-Tree wrote:
      PelizTheMiraculousPanda wrote:
      Randomness Unlimited wrote:
      Mybe she'll show a hidden, kinder side of her personality, like Adrien being cockier as Cat Noir and Marinette being braver as Ladybug. Since nobody knows her civilian identity, maybe she won't pretend she's better than everyone else.
      maybe but won't anyone be suspicious because Chloé will miss her classes more often. also isn't she a huge fan of Ladybug? It'll be awkward for her since she's working with Ladybug to save the Paris! 😶
      I kinda want to see that awkwardness from her hero form, suddenly Ladybug is speaking to her and she's expected to fight alongside her and fight as hard as her, cue stuttering on Marinette talking to Adrien levels. I see her getting nervous yet happy at having to work with the heroes and maybe she'll take Ladybug's words more to heart as she's no longer someone she expects to do the job for her but a comrade to work with.

      Good point though about absences though, I'm assuming that when she does become a hero she fights just as often as the others do. Marinette can hide it through habits, based in fact, of oversleeping and forgetfulness and Adrien has his modelling schedule to throw off suspicion at school and school schedule to throw off suspicion at home. Chloe however is shadowed almost constantly by Sabrina, her dad keeps a watchful eye over her and, despite her other flaws, she always show up for school and social events. Absences from her would certainly raise more suspicions than with Adrien and Marinette.

      she'll get some development obviously. How funny would it be if Cat Noir fell for the bee miraculous holder (Chloe) that would be funny wouldn't it :D

      No it wouldn't be. -_-

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    • I know you guys disapprove Chloe as a bee miraculous but don't you see how it change their lives like Marinette who doesn't have confident on herself and also Adrian who can't stood up with his father for wanting to go to school in the first place. Given the chance Chloe could change for good, it will be a good development for her. I like to to see a new side of her.

      For the sake of argument, a bee kwami's guidance is needed for Chloe. You see how Marinette and Adrian's Kwami gives them a advice for their own good.

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    • I actually like the idea of Chloe getting it by accident. Like Master Fu was set on giving it to someone but somehow bumps into Chloe and the box ends up in her bag. So, instead of someone seeing this potential within her, she learns by experience. And then she can truly see how much her actions and words affect others.

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    • Spoons017 wrote:
      I actually like the idea of Chloe getting it by accident. Like Master Fu was set on giving it to someone but somehow bumps into Chloe and the box ends up in her bag. So, instead of someone seeing this potential within her, she learns by experience. And then she can truly see how much her actions and words affect others.

      Great Idea! 😉

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    • Lilanette wrote:
      ChardonnayBloo wrote:
      Astruc Himself said on his twitter that Chloe will not be a miraculous user, not even Lila having the real one. he said so himself.
      That's not quite what he said. The quote was "Mean people don't and will never deserve a Miraculous." Whether they deserve it and whether they get it are two separate things. Besides, Hawkmoth is mean and still has a Miraculous, so we know that deserving it isn't the only mechanism at play.

      True to his nickname of "NoSpoiler-Man," Astruc hasn't ever said who will or will not be getting Miraculouses in the future.

      Mean people always could you know. . . steal a Miraculous. They can possess it for wrong or good regardless of personality, but I do hope she will not get one.

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    • Scarlet-Lafontaine wrote:
      Lilanette wrote:
      ChardonnayBloo wrote:
      Astruc Himself said on his twitter that Chloe will not be a miraculous user, not even Lila having the real one. he said so himself.
      That's not quite what he said. The quote was "Mean people don't and will never deserve a Miraculous." Whether they deserve it and whether they get it are two separate things. Besides, Hawkmoth is mean and still has a Miraculous, so we know that deserving it isn't the only mechanism at play.

      True to his nickname of "NoSpoiler-Man," Astruc hasn't ever said who will or will not be getting Miraculouses in the future.

      Mean people always could you know. . . steal a Miraculous. They can possess it for wrong or good regardless of personality, but I do hope she will not get one.

      You're late to the party. It's already been confirmed that Chloe is the Bee Miraculous holder. 

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    • To be honest, I think the one to blame is her father.

      I think she and Adrien are both missing a mother figure in their lives, however, Chloe must've lost her mother very early in her life. She never mentions any type of mother figure (and there was not another person next to her father in his reelection) and her father is constantly showering her in gifts. Her father is more focused on being mayor and staying that way, but never really giving much notice to Chloe except for giving her what she wants. Heck, if she asked for a bomb, he probably would give her one without batting an eye, because if he doesn't give her what she wants, she'll throw a fit. Why? Because her father never said no to her about anything, he just stood there and smiled and waved. He never took any disciplinary action, unlike Mr. Agreste or Marinette's parents and instead gave her all positive reinforcement.

      Now about Chloe, Rose, and Juleka possibly being LGBT+ (as much as I love my LGBT+ shippings...)

      Rose and Juleka would be a sweet pair, but comparing their interactions with others, I feel as if they are just friends or as close as sisters. Adrien and Nino seem to be the same way, same with Alya and Marinette. A lot of them have their best friend/sibling figure (as most have no other siblings, or their siblings are way out of their age group such as Alix and Alya) with the pairs of Alya and Marinette, Nino and Adrien, Max and Kim, and Juleka and Rose. One could easily argue that AlyaxMarinette and NinoxAdrien could be a thing when comparing the friend intimacy with Juleka and Rose's intimacy with each other, but we know that Alya, Marinette, Nino, and Andrien have their own respective crushes.

      Also, this is a kid's show, so I don't know how strong Nickolodean's LGBT+ policy is, and as much as I would love to see an LGBT+ ship somewhere, I think that Rose and Juleka's relationship is a sisterly relationship more than anything and I feel Rose is way too optimistic for Juleka's more dark nature.

      Now Chloe being lesbian, bi, or pan, that would definitely be interesting to see. But here's the thing: lesbian characters are widely accepted in fandoms, and here's a great post about that: http://fav.me/daso08g. If she was bi or pan, that would be very interesting because people don't really understand bisexuality and pansexuality. I think that her love for Adrien is geniune, I think her fangirling over Ladybug is just her fangirling over Ladybug. For Ali, she just likes the fact the he is rich and is almost upset that Ali was moving away from her after she got hit by Princess Fragrance's "bomb". I'm still waiting on anything to indicate LGBT+ in Chloe, in fact, she doesn't ask for a poster to be signed by Ladybug, she asks for one from Adrien. I think that she is straight, but borderline LGBT+ in some aspects as she hardcore fangirls over Ladybug and the writers have Ladybug save her a lot (it would be interesting to see how she would react to Cat saving her TBH). I'm kind of hoping that she isn't, because the little girls out there need a good role model.

      And for more LGBT+ stuff: If someone turns out to be asexual, aro, trans, genderfluid, pan, bi, or anything that isn't lesbian spectrum, the Internet blows up. Say that Adrien turns out to be ace. How would fans react (if the fans were non-ace and don't understand the concept of ace) and an ace guy as handsome as Adrien would be pawesome to see (but I don't see that idea going anywhere TvT). Just be glad I don't write this show...

      Now about Chloe being the Bee Miraculous holder...I see a great possibility for that to happen (and if it does I'll drag my brother into this show, but that's a story for another time) but if it doesn't, I'll be perfectly fine with it not happening. I want to see a Chloe backstory arc, to see where that bullying behavior came from, with or without a Miraculous. I don't care what happens to her, I just want some explanation to her behavior.

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    • Tansyflower
      Tansyflower removed this reply because:
      I have nothing against anyone's opinion, as people have their right, but this post is asking for causing issues that aren't necessary.
      07:08, December 29, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • TiffanyJung20 wrote: Honestly?I hope that none of them are anywhere on the LGBTQIA spectrum. I despise such characters, mainly because I don't connect with them.

      Huh. Why do you think you don't you connect with them? From my own experience, I've often found myself to connect with characters with other orientations than my own, but I also don't feel I need to relate to every character. Do neither of those things apply to you?

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    • CobraCatDragon2898 wrote:

      And for more LGBT+ stuff: If someone turns out to be asexual, aro, trans, genderfluid, pan, bi, or anything that isn't lesbian spectrum, the Internet blows up. Say that Adrien turns out to be ace. How would fans react (if the fans were non-ace and don't understand the concept of ace) and an ace guy as handsome as Adrien would be pawesome to see (but I don't see that idea going anywhere TvT). Just be glad I don't write this show...

      What do you mean by "ace"?

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    • Randomness Unlimited wrote:
      CobraCatDragon2898 wrote:
      And for more LGBT+ stuff: If someone turns out to be asexual, aro, trans, genderfluid, pan, bi, or anything that isn't lesbian spectrum, the Internet blows up. Say that Adrien turns out to be ace. How would fans react (if the fans were non-ace and don't understand the concept of ace) and an ace guy as handsome as Adrien would be pawesome to see (but I don't see that idea going anywhere TvT). Just be glad I don't write this show...
      What do you mean by "ace"?

      Short for asexual.

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    • CobraCatDragon2898 wrote: And for more LGBT+ stuff: If someone turns out to be asexual, aro, trans, genderfluid, pan, bi, or anything that isn't lesbian spectrum, the Internet blows up. Say that Adrien turns out to be ace. How would fans react (if the fans were non-ace and don't understand the concept of ace) and an ace guy as handsome as Adrien would be pawesome to see (but I don't see that idea going anywhere TvT). Just be glad I don't write this show...

      I'd be down with literally any of those! It seems ridiculous to me that almost all the identities represented in popular media fall within a couple small boxes. Given how diverse this show's characters are in other ways, this seems like a good opportunity here.

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    • To be honest, I'm more interested in why Chloe dislikes Marinette so much. She's mean to everyone, sure, but there seems to be this underlying, unspoken grudge against her specifically that stemmed way back even before Adrien attended public school (and now their mutual crushes on him seem to have exasperated that). It would be cool if they explored that a little more.

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    • It would accually be very interesting when it turns out Chloe is lesbian. I'm very pleased that Thomas is planning to add LGBT characters to the show. One of my best friends is openly lesbian and quess what? Nobody cares!

      Maybe Chloe fears that someone discovers she's the "non-natural" and she's just so frustrated cause her father doesn't like LGBT's and wouldn't support her if she confesses it that she lives her anger out on others. And it would be even more interesting if it turns out she has no feels for Adrien and only fakes it to hide her 'thing' for girls and that she accually likes Ladybug. I mean, she's (possibly) her biggest fan PLUS she has the costume!
      
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    • Spoons017 wrote:
      To be honest, I'm more interested in why Chloe dislikes Marinette so much. She's mean to everyone, sure, but there seems to be this underlying, unspoken grudge against her specifically that stemmed way back even before Adrien attended public school (and now their mutual crushes on him seem to have exasperated that). It would be cool if they explored that a little more.

      That's an interesting point I hadn't considered before. Why does Chloé hate Marinette in particular so much? They knew each other three years before Adrien joined their school, so he wouldn't be the main reason for their disputes. Also, Chloé is mean to everyone, but she really seems to have it out the most for Marinette.

      There could be many theories related to this. One could be that Chloé simply sees Marinette as particularly lower than her for being the daughter of a baker, though I highly doubt it. Another possibility is that when they first met, Marinette did something, intentionally or unintentionally, that humiliated or insulted Chloé, causing the rich girl to have a strong vendetta against her. My favorite thought on the matter is maybe Chloé is a bit jealous? Chloé's mother is presumably alive, but that doesn't mean that she and Chloé have a strong, healthy relationships, and André may spoil her, but perhaps it's not enough for Chloé to feel loved and noticed unless she is loud and whiny enough. Maybe she sees Marinette's normal life, loving family, and knack for having good relationships with her peers, and she is frustrated that she doesn't experience the same thing, despite being wealthy and spoiled. But hey, those are just a few ideas.

      When Chloé goes through a redemption pre- or post-Miraculous, I wonder if it would have an effect on their relationship by the time. It will be fascinating to see how Chloé's thoughts and treatment towards Marinette may evolve and she starts improving and positively changing. Would Chloé take a long time to be openly friendly to Marinette (think what Félix would have been in his development), or would she open up quickly, to Marinette's surprise and/or disdain? If she ever finds out that Ladybug is Marinette, how would she react and deal with her greatest idol/enemy afterwards? It's hard to guess what path Chloé is about to take, but I'm interested as to how it will impact her rivalry with Marinette.

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    • Lilanette wrote:

      TiffanyJung20 wrote: Honestly?I hope that none of them are anywhere on the LGBTQIA spectrum. I despise such characters, mainly because I don't connect with them.

      Huh. Why do you think you don't you connect with them? From my own experience, I've often found myself to connect with characters with other orientations than my own, but I also don't feel I need to relate to every character. Do neither of those things apply to you?

      I just don't?? It's hard for me to explain it. 

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    • TiffanyJung20 wrote:

      Lilanette wrote:

      TiffanyJung20 wrote: Honestly?I hope that none of them are anywhere on the LGBTQIA spectrum. I despise such characters, mainly because I don't connect with them.

      Huh. Why do you think you don't you connect with them? From my own experience, I've often found myself to connect with characters with other orientations than my own, but I also don't feel I need to relate to every character. Do neither of those things apply to you?

      I just don't?? It's hard for me to explain it. 

      But in general, you don't like the idea that the show could have some characters that you don't connect with?

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    • Lilanette wrote:

      TiffanyJung20 wrote:

      Lilanette wrote:

      TiffanyJung20 wrote: Honestly?I hope that none of them are anywhere on the LGBTQIA spectrum. I despise such characters, mainly because I don't connect with them.

      Huh. Why do you think you don't you connect with them? From my own experience, I've often found myself to connect with characters with other orientations than my own, but I also don't feel I need to relate to every character. Do neither of those things apply to you?
      I just don't?? It's hard for me to explain it. 
      But in general, you don't like the idea that the show could have some characters that you don't connect with?

      Yes??I mean I'd probably ignore the characters I don't connect with but yes it does bother me.

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    • This conversation is going off track. If you want to discuss different views on LGBT representation in media, please do it elsewhere, but this discussion needs to stay focused on Chloé and her role as the Bee Miraculous holder. Thank you.

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    • Tansyflower wrote:
      Spoons017 wrote:
      To be honest, I'm more interested in why Chloe dislikes Marinette so much. She's mean to everyone, sure, but there seems to be this underlying, unspoken grudge against her specifically that stemmed way back even before Adrien attended public school (and now their mutual crushes on him seem to have exasperated that). It would be cool if they explored that a little more.
      That's an interesting point I hadn't considered before. Why does Chloé hate Marinette in particular so much? They knew each other three years before Adrien joined their school, so he wouldn't be the main reason for their disputes. Also, Chloé is mean to everyone, but she really seems to have it out the most for Marinette.
      There could be many theories related to this. One could be that Chloé simply sees Marinette as particularly lower than her for being the daughter of a baker, though I highly doubt it. Another possibility is that when they first met, Marinette did something, intentionally or unintentionally, that humiliated or insulted Chloé, causing the rich girl to have a strong vendetta against her. My favorite thought on the matter is maybe Chloé is a bit jealous? Chloé's mother is presumably alive, but that doesn't mean that she and Chloé have a strong, healthy relationships, and André may spoil her, but perhaps it's not enough for Chloé to feel loved and noticed unless she is loud and whiny enough. Maybe she sees Marinette's normal life, loving family, and knack for having good relationships with her peers, and she is frustrated that she doesn't experience the same thing, despite being wealthy and spoiled. But hey, those are just a few ideas.

      When Chloé goes through a redemption pre- or post-Miraculous, I wonder if it would have an effect on their relationship by the time. It will be fascinating to see how Chloé's thoughts and treatment towards Marinette may evolve and she starts improving and positively changing. Would Chloé take a long time to be openly friendly to Marinette (think what Félix would have been in his development), or would she open up quickly, to Marinette's surprise and/or disdain? If she ever finds out that Ladybug is Marinette, how would she react and deal with her greatest idol/enemy afterwards? It's hard to guess what path Chloé is about to take, but I'm interested as to how it will impact her rivalry with Marinette.

      But many people could have the same happy backgrounds as Marinette: loving families and healthy relationships. In that case, wouldn't Chloe be jealous of everyone? Why Marinette's life specifically? I'm leaning towards the theory that Marinette probably did do something that humiliated her, although unintentionally; maybe she was the first to defy/stand up to Chloe's entitlement, which only made her Chloe's primary target throughout their school years. And that eventually wore Marinette down to the point of being almost subdued to Chloe's demands in Origins.

      Post-Miraculous, it would be fun to see them mend their dislike of each other into a frenemy-type relationship, kind of like "You can't insult her, only I get to do that." 

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    • Truly, the only reason why I'm kinda against Chloe and Alya as miraculous holders is because I feel like it's poor writing to have four Miraculous holders all from the same school, moreover the same class. If the whole show was so intent on making sure no one ever found out about their true identities, it makes zero sense to have them all from the same class. Maybe it is a coincidence, maybe Master didn't know they'd be from the same school. However, that reasoning is too cheap. He knows almost everything about them, but not that they're from the same school???

      Also, I see more benefit in bringing in new characters for the Miraculous holders for their fresh personalities and new content. Like we'd see more of Paris bc they live in different areas, new living environments, and new secondary characters for us to ship with or something. Idk, I just feel like seeing the same characters over and over again.. how do I say this.. dulls the show?? 

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    • I officially/obviously hate Chloé, so what would I care!?

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    • Lilanette wrote:
      ChardonnayBloo wrote:
      Astruc Himself said on his twitter that Chloe will not be a miraculous user, not even Lila having the real one. he said so himself.
      That's not quite what he said. The quote was "Mean people don't and will never deserve a Miraculous." Whether they deserve it and whether they get it are two separate things. Besides, Hawkmoth is mean and still has a Miraculous, so we know that deserving it isn't the only mechanism at play.

      True to his nickname of "NoSpoiler-Man," Astruc hasn't ever said who will or will not be getting Miraculouses in the future.

      It's Hawk Moth as in two words of a name, and his real supervillain name is La Papillion (the butterfly), according to the French version of the series.

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      whoever said Chloe is the first? whoever said Juleka and Rose were best friends? (big Julerose shipper here) while yes, Rose admired prince Ali and wanted a love lock with him whoever said she couldn't possibly be bi or pan? I never thought of the bee miraculous as an analogy for Chloe to come out i just figured she could flirt with ladybug which is still coming out but it isn't like shouting "PEOPLE OF PARIS I AM CHLOE BOURGEIOS AND I AM A LESBIAN!!!" but i certianly hope that if that is true it can help Chloe accept herself.

      That's spelled Bourgeois.

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    • Most of us aren't making excuses for her, just theorising why she is the way she is, there must be a reason for her being that way. 

      Agreed! ♥ ;)

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    • Chloe will become nicer person...i can't wait to see the heroine Chloe!

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    • Pegasushunt125 wrote:
      It would accually be very interesting when it turns out Chloe is lesbian. I'm very pleased that Thomas is planning to add LGBT characters to the show. One of my best friends is openly lesbian and quess what? Nobody cares!
      Maybe Chloe fears that someone discovers she's the "non-natural" and she's just so frustrated cause her father doesn't like LGBT's and wouldn't support her if she confesses it that she lives her anger out on others. And it would be even more interesting if it turns out she has no feels for Adrien and only fakes it to hide her 'thing' for girls and that she accually likes Ladybug. I mean, she's (possibly) her biggest fan PLUS she has the costume!
      

      I doubt that Chloe is lesbian, Bi or pansexual or straight maybe.

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    • But I thought Chloe has a crush on Adrien!

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    • PelizTheMiraculousPanda wrote:
      But I thought Chloe has a crush on Adrien!

      She does. That's why she's most probably straight.But if people want to think that she's lesbian or bi or pansexual, then it's their choice.

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    • Please... if there was anybody like that, she would make fun of them in a heartbeat. Besides, i don't think they'd ever do that in a kids cartoon.

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    • TiffanyJung20 wrote:
      Pegasushunt125 wrote:
      It would accually be very interesting when it turns out Chloe is lesbian. I'm very pleased that Thomas is planning to add LGBT characters to the show. One of my best friends is openly lesbian and quess what? Nobody cares! Maybe Chloe fears that someone discovers she's the "non-natural" and she's just so frustrated cause her father doesn't like LGBT's and wouldn't support her if she confesses it that she lives her anger out on others. And it would be even more interesting if it turns out she has no feels for Adrien and only fakes it to hide her 'thing' for girls and that she accually likes Ladybug. I mean, she's (possibly) her biggest fan PLUS she has the costume!
      I doubt that Chloe is lesbian, Bi or pansexual or straight maybe.

      this would be entirely possible as not only is Thomas adding LGBT charactrers to the show but that would also help with her redemption arc in a similar way to Santana from Glee. Santana was a closeted lesbian and also about as cruel as chloe', however it is later revealed that bthe reason she is so cruel is because she is frustrated and angry with the prospect of her identity and the thought that people will accept her so she bottles up her feelings as lashes out. When you think about it Santana is very similar to Chloe'.

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    • (Man this threat has grown a lot since I last posted here)

      Yeah I agree with users like Avatar thoyrn, I think Chloe may be LGBT and uses her bullying and unhealthy attachment to Adrien to keep it a secret from everyone. Another example like the Santana one by thoyrn is a character from the new Ms. Marvel comic, Zoe, who started out as a bully to the main character but over the course of the series grew friendlier and became friendly before coming out as lesbian.

      It's an interesting thought on the possibility of LGBT representation in Miraculous, be it in a new or existing character, but maybe Tansyflower is right and that discussion should be in a different thread.

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    • Yellowwinx8 wrote:
      Besides, i don't think they'd ever do that in a kids cartoon.

      Actually, kids' shows are beginning to accept LGBT characters nowadays. Like The Loud House, which has Clyde's gay parents. And when it comes to mature content in kids' shows, think about shows like Regular Show, Kaeloo and Rocko's Modern Life. Those shows have gotten so much stuff past the radar!

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    • Thomas also confirmed an LGBT character in season 2 and why not have a known character coming out be a big reveal as one is promised as well? also alot of cartoons have more mature content today. a cartoon like Steven universe, for example couldn't have existed ten years ago, which shows how far we have gone.

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      Thomas also confirmed an LGBT character in season 2 and why not have a known character coming out be a big reveal as one is promised as well? also alot of cartoons have more mature content today. a cartoon like Steven universe, for example couldn't have existed ten years ago, which shows how far we have gone.

      Where did Thomas confirm that? All he has said as far as I can remember is that he hopes to continue representing all people in his show, which isn't a strong confirmation for anything in particular.

      With the Steven Universe mention, while the US has been supportive of many shows including LGBT representation, the problem is that some other countries are not at that place yet and will either not air the show or tweak it so that two characters aren't in an LGBT relationships, which sometimes affects the money made for the show. A few dubs of Steven Universe have made it so that one character in the most notable LGBT couple as coming off as more male (with a more masculine voice), and it wasn't until the last episode of Gravity Falls that the crew was able to put in a strong indicator to the already hinted couple, due to Disney afraid that other countries would reject anything questionable like that in the show. I'm not saying that Miraculous wouldn't be able to do an LGBT character, as representation is important, but while more representation is becoming common, I don't know if Miraculous would be able to pull it off without other countries being displeased or censoring it at the moment.

      We now please need to return to focus on Chloé and not the debate of the possibility of an LGBT character in Miraculous and LGBT representation in the cartoon media. Please feel free to create a new forum discussion on the matter, and as long as everyone is civil, it will be fine, but this subject is narrowed on Chloé being the Bee Miraculous holder and what that means about her and for her/other characters.

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    • Well, I don't know if she even deserves​ to bear the Bee Miraculous. Let's face it, she's a mean girl and if she ​is ​going to change then she needs to convince EVERYONE​that she's hurt and got akumatized that she has​ changed. But, let's face it, Marinette and Alya might not even believe that she has. All I'm saying is that the exec said that mean people, as in bullies and Queen Bees, don't deserve to be a Miraculous bearer. Not that Chloe doesn't have potential, but she needs to learn how to care about others and not just herself.

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    • Who is going to be the LGBT character?

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    • I thought we were asked to leave that for another thread.

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    • If this does happen then she'll need an arc where she's torn down

      1) She makes another Akuma that forces her to see how much harm she's done in the past and that she caused so many Akumas

      2) Be it only for a few episodes, one episode, or more she needs to lose all her money, influence, and other luxeries which may or may not end with her discovering that pizza is really good and that she really is no better then anyone else once you take her money away

      3) Adrien finally gets her to stop being clingy around him and to understand that he does not and never will like her like that

      4) Probably the last step, we meet Chloe's mom

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    • For anyone still wanting to discuss the possible LGBT representation in Miraculous I created a forum for this purpose, link here. Please move any further discussion on that subject there.

      Back to the topic at hand while it seems likely that Chloe will get the Miraculous there is no guarantee that she will keep the Miraculous. She may get it, use it once or a few times, then lose it either because Master Fu considered her not worthy or one of Hawk Moth's villains steals it. Same thing could also happen to the Fox Miraculous user, we just don't know.

      Just something I wanted to point out.

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    • Evil-Tree wrote:
      Back to the topic at hand while it seems likely that Chloe will get the Miraculous there is no guarantee that she will keep the Miraculous. She may get it, use it once or a few times, then lose it either because Master Fu considered her not worthy or one of Hawk Moth's villains steals it. Same thing could also happen to the Fox Miraculous user, we just don't know.

      Just something I wanted to point out.

      Very true point. For sure, Hawk Moth wants the Ladybug and Cat Miraculouses, so we could see those two taken away from Ladybug and Cat Noir are some point, probably at the climax of this arc with Hawk Moth and Le Paon. But even if they aren't what Hawk Moth needs, the Bee Miraculous and Fox Miraculous give some sort of advantage for the heroes, so maybe he would threaten and even succeed at taking them away from Chloé and Alya eventually.

      However, I feel like the promotional artwork seen so far supports thtat Chloé and Alya are in it as superheros for the long run. While things can happen in many ways in the show as far as we know, Chloé appears prominently in the Zag Heroez poster, and both she and Alya are going to be icons in the Zag Heroez text icon set. Unlike with Volpina, who Thomas was very vague on about her being a superhero before she was officially revealed, Chloé and Alya have stronger evidence in announcements at cons and images that they both are superheroes and will be recurring. This all could still be a curve ball, but it's a lot of buildup from all these things for me to to think that these two won't be Miraculous holders and won't end up as superheroes, even if there may be bumps in the road to get there.

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    • I feel as though Chloé obtaining the Bee Miraculous would be amazing for the story line. Chloé is an overall mean person and lots of people feel that she should not get or does not deserve a miraculous, but I think we should give her a shot. Personally, I believe she will become a heroin. She is Ladybugs number one fan, I feel as though Ladybug would start to influence her. Chloé is still a pretty shallow character and she could be slowly changing but it's not showing yet. I believe this is why she obtains the miraculous, she is going to go through a change that will slowly start to redeem herself and she proves herself to be a kind hearted person through change. Also, Chloé having the bee miraculous would be considered a plot twist because how could someone so mean obtain a miraculous.  The idea actually isn't so twisted, Bee's symbolize teamwork and Unity, we know Chloé is not the type of person to believe in team work but what if that's the change. What if Chloé is slowly wanting to help people more and more because of her role model and this is her chance. In AntiBug we see she wants to be a hero but can't, even though she is not the nicest person she is resourceful and wants to help ladybug. That's possibly why she gets the miraculous in the first place and after that more changes ( teamwork, caring and helpful traits) come along after. 

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    • Maybe Chloe, as Queen Bee, will listen to the heroes saying something along the lines of "Chloe Bourgeois causes almost all the akumas around here" and realize she needs to change.

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    • I accually agree with giving Chloe a chance. I have seen people being disapointed that Alya gets Fox Miraculous and Chloe Bee Miraculous,but we must give them a chance. Zag crew possibly has a solution for this four-heroes-one-class thing.

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    • like having Chloe' expelled for excessive bullying?

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      like having Chloe' expelled for excessive bullying?

      Please, not unless she threatens to have her daddy sue the school for expelling her.

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    • not if he decides to stand his ground and finally discipline her for being an awful bully and akuma factory

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    • Something harsh needs to happen, Chloe tends to have trouble learning lessons that aren't harsh

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    • Well, if you ask me... The only way she'd change is if she faced a life situation, such as being buried alive.

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    • Or if she was forced to go through the events that she caused that made people turn into Akumas then maybe she can be chased by people who chant, "We don't love you, we never have and never will love you." Thus exposing her fear that people don't love her which she tries to avoid by forcing everyone to love her.

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    • I feel like the redemption arc is the way to go. Zagtoon would not have her steal the Miraculous; it feels disingenuous to have a superhero in the long-run who has not rightfully earned her position. Also, Miraculous Ladybug has a running theme of nobody being perfect. None of the villains on the show are pure evil; they are just people in pain who have been consumed by their sorrow. Even Hawkmoth himself is sympathetic; you don't agree with what he's doing but you understand why. Also, Marinette can sometimes be rash and judgemental and Adrien can sometimes be careless and impulsive. It would make sense if the same happened to Chloe.

      I think Chloe's meanness does have something to do with her mother; I think her mother walked out on her when she was young. It made her feel unloved, unwanted and worthless. She's built up a false sense of confidence in order to combat those feelings of neglect. She buys herself expensive things to make herself feel good about herself. She is cold and mean to people because she is afraid of growing close to people, because she might get hurt again. Her obsession with Adrien is a result of her desperate need for affection in her life, also on a more personal level, she relates to Adrien more because he lost his mother recently.

      Whenever she invests her faith in someone, like she did in her mother, she expects that faith to be repaid. That's why she cried during Antibug when Ladybug let her down; it wasn't because Chloe was being spoilt, it was because another female role model in her life betrayed her trust.

      Chloe's entire perception of herself is based on what others' think of her. She wants people to love her because she can't love herself. For the most overconfident person on the show, I think she is the most insecure of all.

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    • True, I have a feeling that that's what the show built up to during the whole first season. Of course the only way to see if that's true though is to have an Akuma bring out her dark side which proceeds to tell her all of these things and spout out everything she knows is true about herself.

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    • Loosecannon8 wrote:
      I feel like the redemption arc is the way to go. Zagtoon would not have her steal the Miraculous; it feels disingenuous to have a superhero in the long-run who has not rightfully earned her position. Also, Miraculous Ladybug has a running theme of nobody being perfect. None of the villains on the show are pure evil; they are just people in pain who have been consumed by their sorrow. Even Hawkmoth himself is sympathetic; you don't agree with what he's doing but you understand why. Also, Marinette can sometimes be rash and judgemental and Adrien can sometimes be careless and impulsive. It would make sense if the same happened to Chloe.

      I think Chloe's meanness does have something to do with her mother; I think her mother walked out on her when she was young. It made her feel unloved, unwanted and worthless. She's built up a false sense of confidence in order to combat those feelings of neglect. She buys herself expensive things to make herself feel good about herself. She is cold and mean to people because she is afraid of growing close to people, because she might get hurt again. Her obsession with Adrien is a result of her desperate need for affection in her life, also on a more personal level, she relates to Adrien more because he lost his mother recently.

      Whenever she invests her faith in someone, like she did in her mother, she expects that faith to be repaid. That's why she cried during Antibug when Ladybug let her down; it wasn't because Chloe was being spoilt, it was because another female role model in her life betrayed her trust.

      Chloe's entire perception of herself is based on what others' think of her. She wants people to love her because she can't love herself. For the most overconfident person on the show, I think she is the most insecure of all.

      so basically you think Chloe is a basic bully?

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    • Steven Bomb 17 wrote:
      Or if she was forced to go through the events that she caused that made people turn into Akumas then maybe she can be chased by people who chant, "We don't love you, we never have and never will love you." Thus exposing her fear that people don't love her which she tries to avoid by forcing everyone to love her.

      You do know that she already has been akumitized, right? And even still she still behaves horribly. I'm surprised that her father obviously has yet to beat her hindquarters. Maybe if someone whooped her, she'll be set straight. I mean... come on, we've all had it happen to us one time or another and maybe Marinette, Alya, Nino, and some others had it happen to them, too. I don't know about Adrien, but it's pretty clear that Chloe and Sabrina have never gotten a whooping before in their lives!

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:

      Loosecannon8 wrote:
      I feel like the redemption arc is the way to go. Zagtoon would not have her steal the Miraculous; it feels disingenuous to have a superhero in the long-run who has not rightfully earned her position. Also, Miraculous Ladybug has a running theme of nobody being perfect. None of the villains on the show are pure evil; they are just people in pain who have been consumed by their sorrow. Even Hawkmoth himself is sympathetic; you don't agree with what he's doing but you understand why. Also, Marinette can sometimes be rash and judgemental and Adrien can sometimes be careless and impulsive. It would make sense if the same happened to Chloe.

      I think Chloe's meanness does have something to do with her mother; I think her mother walked out on her when she was young. It made her feel unloved, unwanted and worthless. She's built up a false sense of confidence in order to combat those feelings of neglect. She buys herself expensive things to make herself feel good about herself. She is cold and mean to people because she is afraid of growing close to people, because she might get hurt again. Her obsession with Adrien is a result of her desperate need for affection in her life, also on a more personal level, she relates to Adrien more because he lost his mother recently.

      Whenever she invests her faith in someone, like she did in her mother, she expects that faith to be repaid. That's why she cried during Antibug when Ladybug let her down; it wasn't because Chloe was being spoilt, it was because another female role model in her life betrayed her trust.

      Chloe's entire perception of herself is based on what others' think of her. She wants people to love her because she can't love herself. For the most overconfident person on the show, I think she is the most insecure of all.

      so basically you think Chloe is a basic bully?

      I think that there is more to her than we think. She has done some horrible things. But I don't think she is a basic bully. I don't think she is bad at heart. I think she's in pain. She has a lot of personal issues that have been heavily implied. She is a character frought with insecurity. She's allowed her insecurity to consume her and turn her into somebody mean. In a way, she's akumatised herself. This doesn't make her a basic bully; this makes her complicated. And that's a good thing.

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    • I agree with recent posts in this discussion. Of couse I don't like Chloe,but more I think about it, I feel everyone saying Chloe is mean cos she's in mental pain is right. Like Adrien, she doesn't have a mother, and might feel the same. When she becomes hero, it of course takes some time for her to "open up" and maybe reveal the sensitive person she is. I can imagine her having a heartfelt talk with Ladybug, where she explains why she is so mean.

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    • Pegasushunt125 wrote:
      I agree with recent posts in this discussion. Of couse I don't like Chloe,but more I think about it, I feel everyone saying Chloe is mean cos she's in mental pain is right. Like Adrien, she doesn't have a mother, and might feel the same. When she becomes hero, it of course takes some time for her to "open up" and maybe reveal the sensitive person she is. I can imagine her having a heartfelt talk with Ladybug, where she explains why she is so mean.

      If​ she ever owns up to it. You know that everytime someone calls her out on her spoiled attitude, she ends up in serious denial, always claiming that she's a "good" person. If we really want her to change, then someone needs to bring Madea to France and have her beat her hindquarters!

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    • Yellowwinx8 wrote:
      Pegasushunt125 wrote:
      I agree with recent posts in this discussion. Of couse I don't like Chloe,but more I think about it, I feel everyone saying Chloe is mean cos she's in mental pain is right. Like Adrien, she doesn't have a mother, and might feel the same. When she becomes hero, it of course takes some time for her to "open up" and maybe reveal the sensitive person she is. I can imagine her having a heartfelt talk with Ladybug, where she explains why she is so mean.
      If​ she ever owns up to it. You know that everytime someone calls her out on her spoiled attitude, she ends up in serious denial, always claiming that she's a "good" person.

      Exactly... she's trying to delude herself into thinking she's a good person, or maybe she just hasn't realized how mean she's being.

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    • Randomness Unlimited wrote:
      Yellowwinx8 wrote:
      Pegasushunt125 wrote:
      I agree with recent posts in this discussion. Of couse I don't like Chloe,but more I think about it, I feel everyone saying Chloe is mean cos she's in mental pain is right. Like Adrien, she doesn't have a mother, and might feel the same. When she becomes hero, it of course takes some time for her to "open up" and maybe reveal the sensitive person she is. I can imagine her having a heartfelt talk with Ladybug, where she explains why she is so mean.
      If​ she ever owns up to it. You know that everytime someone calls her out on her spoiled attitude, she ends up in serious denial, always claiming that she's a "good" person.
      Exactly... she's trying to delude herself into thinking she's a good person, or maybe she just hasn't realized how mean she's being.

      I'm telling you, she will be after somebody tears her hindquarters up!

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    • It takes a bit more then spanking, that only does half the job...she also needs to be grounded for a couple months

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    • I think Chloe with a Bee Miraculous could fit perfectly as an anti-hero.

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    • Steven Bomb 17 wrote:
      It takes a bit more then spanking, that only does half the job...she also needs to be grounded for a couple months

      If her father were brave enough of course, but I still think that someone outta beat her hindquarters! That is the only way she will be set straight! And just so we're all clear, I do NOT believe in child abuse, but I do believe in setting someone straight!

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    • Yellowwinx8 wrote:
      Steven Bomb 17 wrote:
      It takes a bit more then spanking, that only does half the job...she also needs to be grounded for a couple months
      If her father were brave enough of course, but I still think that someone outta beat her hindquarters! That is the only way she will be set straight! And just so we're all clear, I do NOT believe in child abuse, but I do believe in setting someone straight!

      Ok good you honestly had me worried there for a moment, in that case yeah sure if it can somehow get through to her

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    • I doubt that inflicting physical "punishment" towards Chloé, whether abusive or not, would change her ways. For how many times Chloé has been in near-death situations, none of them have sparked a realization within her. To be fair, there was one case, when she was about to smash into the concrete at a high speed from Stoneheart's thorw, but even then, it was out of fear for her life and not legitimate, Chloé lying that she "didn't promise" after Ladybug saves her. Just as torture is known to not be the best way to get useful info from prisoners, in Chloé's, she may be intimidated to be nicer, but it's not a legitimate change and it feels a bit hollow because of it, at least for me. (Note I'm only talking about Chloé's response to physical discipline, not the successful or failure of using it in general.)

      If Chloé changes, I want it to be a conscious realization, evaluation, and decision to improve from herself internally, not by force externally. Maybe a traumatic event happens to Chloé and/or someone around her that lights a fuse in her mind. Perhaps, if she becomes a superhero before her change, she gets positive influence from working alongside Ladybug and Cat Noir. Even just minor moments in her life that push her deeper and deeper into kinder territory is a total possibility. Whatever the way it happens, I want it to ignite Chloé's change in that she comes to the conclusion herself, although outer comments can help, that she doesn't want to be a cruel, mean person anymore.

      As always, I will never deny that Chloé is a terrible, self-centered jerk with little regard towards basically everyone. If I knew her in real life, I would be disgusted with her just as much as Marinette and her classmates are. However, because I'm viewing her outside her world, I can see the potential that comes from her character. The moral that people can improve into better beings, come to regret and acknowledge their own past behavior, and take steps in a newer, brighter direction. I'm confident that Season 2 is going to help bring humanity to Chloé without excusing her actions by developing her more, in addition to not making it seem like she earns the Miraculous but that the Miraculous jumpstarts or continues her transformation into a legitimately self-conscious, humbled, and compassionate person.

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    • I totally agree with you,Tansyflower. I don't like Chloe,but since we know she'll become Queen Bee(or whatever her name is),I'm accually excited to see her as a superhero and how she changes.

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    • See what happens when you butt in and make replies or comments??? You literally NEVER stop getting notifications about it!!! -_- :( :'(

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    • GabbyComitotheGreat wrote:
      See what happens when you butt in and make replies or comments??? You literally NEVER stop getting notifications about it!!! -_- :( :'(

      You can unfollow it y'know...

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    • What I'm just wondering now is can she fly?

      The heroes have novel ways of getting around Paris, yo-yo swinging through momentum, staff uplifting then helicopter spinning, I'm wondering what Chloe is going to do. The trompo doesn't look fit to give her this movement (though it may surprise us) so I'm thinking flying may be a good method and fits more into the bee theme. Sure ladybugs can fly and Marinette can't but they're mostly known for their colours while bees are definite flyers (don't believe that "according to laws of aviation" thing, that was done with dodgy math). I'm not sure how they would form, maybe another function of that bag she has in costume or just energy constructs.

      Thoughts anyone?

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    • Evil-Tree wrote:
      What I'm just wondering now is can she fly?

      The heroes have novel ways of getting around Paris, yo-yo swinging through momentum, staff uplifting then helicopter spinning, I'm wondering what Chloe is going to do. The trompo doesn't look fit to give her this movement (though it may surprise us) so I'm thinking flying may be a good method and fits more into the bee theme. Sure ladybugs can fly and Marinette can't but they're mostly known for their colours while bees are definite flyers (don't believe that "according to laws of aviation" thing, that was done with dodgy math). I'm not sure how they would form, maybe another function of that bag she has in costume or just energy constructs.

      Thoughts anyone?

      I'm guessing bee wings magically sprout on her back and when she lands they disappear.

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    • I dont think chloe can be a miraculous holder as she cant move 1 meter without wrrying about her hair, it get really annoying.........

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    • MiraculousFan5 wrote:
      I dont think chloe can be a miraculous holder as she cant move 1 meter without wrrying about her hair, it get really annoying.........

      That's where the magic of Miraculous hero personas comes in. With it we can turn clumsy and stuttering girls into confident and brave heroines, softly spoken pretty boys into pun firing dorky heroes and will most likely work the same magic with Chloe.

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    • Evil-Tree wrote:
      MiraculousFan5 wrote:
      I dont think chloe can be a miraculous holder as she cant move 1 meter without wrrying about her hair, it get really annoying.........
      That's where the magic of Miraculous hero personas comes in. With it we can turn clumsy and stuttering girls into confident and brave heroines, softly spoken pretty boys into pun firing dorky heroes and will most likely work the same magic with Chloe.

      I doubt it's the magic. Remember how uncertain Marinette was when she first got the Miraculous?

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    • TiffanyJung20 wrote:
      Evil-Tree wrote:
      MiraculousFan5 wrote:
      I dont think chloe can be a miraculous holder as she cant move 1 meter without wrrying about her hair, it get really annoying.........
      That's where the magic of Miraculous hero personas comes in. With it we can turn clumsy and stuttering girls into confident and brave heroines, softly spoken pretty boys into pun firing dorky heroes and will most likely work the same magic with Chloe.
      I doubt it's the magic. Remember how uncertain Marinette was when she first got the Miraculous?

      I was using Magic in the figurative sense like "Work your magic", not literal.

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    • Miraculouses don't change personalities similar to kwamis. When they are heroes,no one can control them and they can be who they truly are. Maybe Chloe secretly wants to be good,she just doesn't know how.

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    • Wonder what food addiction Chloe's kwami will have? I've seen a couple fanfics where it favors salty foods (crackers, pretzels, etc.), and it sounds a little more interesting than it just eating sweet stuff like honey.

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    • It depends, I've seen theories that suggest that Tikki likes cookies because it's taking a bunch of stuff and making something good and Plagg likes cheese because it's taking something bad and making it good but...

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    • A food theory I've heard is that the way the food is made reflects the powers of the hero. Tikki grants creation and eats cookies that are made by combining many ingidients into something better, taking things and creating something new. Plagg grants destruction and enjoys cheese which is made by rotting milk with certain bacteria, decay turned into something good like Cat Noir's power.

      Maybe we'll know more about what the Kwami eats by their powers. Nooroo enhances people and gives them new abilities to match them so would he eat spices and herbs as they enhance food?

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    • Yeah and if the theory about The bee kwami renergizing other miraculouses is true then maybe honey?

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    • I just REALLY hope its not Chloe.....she just doen't derserve a Miraculous. It wont be right to have a bully make people feel miserable, and then gets presented with superpowers! It HAS to be some new character with the similar build as her. Plus...Thomas Austruc said we'll be seeing more of Chloe in season 2......if she was a superhero who is on screen most of the time, why would you make a big deal about seeing her more? 

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    • Cat of the Night203 wrote:
      I just REALLY hope its not Chloe.....she just doen't derserve a Miraculous. It wont be right to have a bully make people feel miserable, and then gets presented with superpowers! It HAS to be some new character with the similar build as her. Plus...Thomas Austruc said we'll be seeing more of Chloe in season 2......if she was a superhero who is on screen most of the time, why would you make a big deal about seeing her more? 

      Well, to be honest, I still don't think she deserves it either, just like a certain someone didn't deserve to be President, but we have to give her a chance and hopefully she'll realize her mistake and turn her life around. Otherwise, she'd wind up dead in a heartbeat.

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    • Chloé couldn’t be a Miraculous holder if she tried! Besides, she’s already been Akuma-tized. (Even though Cat Noir, or Chat Noir has been a victim of having bad things happen to him from the villains, but that’s only because he’s literally bad luck, due to being a Black Cat). A Miraculous Holder needs to be happy, optimistic, unable to get Akumatized; able to find good strategies to prevent ever being akumatized. That's not her! That’s not her, clearly!

      And that is why I don't believe and I don’t believe ever that Chloé is or will ever be, even ever was, a Miraculous-Holder or someone who owned a Kwami, so that’s just it! No Miraculous-holder, no Kwami for Chloé!!

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    • Akumatization isn't a marker for whether or not a person can be akumatized. A theme Thomas has incorporated into the show is that negative emotions aren't always necessarily bad, but letting them get out of control and overtake a person can lead to them making bad, morally questionable choices, like it probably is in Hawk Moth's case. There's also a theory that Miraculouses prevent people from getting affected by the Moth Miraculous' Akumatization power. Marinette and Adrien have both had negatively emotional moments that have made them easy targets for Hawk Moth if he wanted them to be, yet they haven't been akumatized.

      While there are desirable traits for the Miraculous holders up against Hawk Moth, I don't think even our current duo hits those points. Marinette and Adrien are flawed. Both can be stubborn, jealous, too afraid to act out or acting out impulsively. Marinette has been the cause, directly or indirectly, of some people who became akumatized, like Max and Lila. Adrien has also been the cause of at least one with Théo. Both can be unhappy, pessimistic, and irresponsible. Part of what makes them so enjoyable, however, is that they overcome their flaws, learning from them and making things right with those they wronged. Chloé, frankly, isn't that, being flawed but ignoring them or being unwilling to change. It's not impossibe for her to change, though, and if Marinette and Adrien are flawed yet willing to work through their flaws while not being perfect superheroes, Chloé could end up becoming like them, though she has a lot of growing to do.

      That's my thought on the matter, though. I don't intend to change anyone's opinion on Chloé, as much as I like her; she is legitimately awful right now, and it's hard to be sure we'll like her better until we see how a redemption arc and Miraculous owning works on in the show. The crew has a major task to do in pulling off this redemption to the point where even most understandably displeased fans can come to tolerate the superhero promotion.

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    • It seems to me the general consession for Chloe not to be a hero is simply because people don't like her and honestly, I find that laughable if anything. It just shows that as a whole, people are not as forgiving as they claim to be when it comes to people trying to change and WANTING to change. It leads me to the thought of what's the point of a character redeeming themselves if the majority of people won't believe them anyway? Granted, not everyone is like this and yes I think Chloe is a stereotypical mean girl but her becomin a hero and learning from it WOULD be a massive break from your basic teen super hero story. Chloe SHOULD learn to be a good person but at the same time it shouldn't deter her from being sassy as that is her personality, much like Marionette is more bubbly compared to Chloe. You can be sassy and be a good person and that matches a Queen Bee personality type. There is nothing bad about that.

      The more I read about 'reasons' for Chloe not to become Queen Bee it all boils down to more of personal reasons vs reasons that could keep the story going and growing. It all stems from people just not like Chloe on a PERONAL level vs what the story wants to do with her. She is a mean girl type and there are so few examples of shows that actually do MORE with that character other than playing it straight and taking the basic route with it. ML doing MORE with that not only would create some more interesting stories but also show that heroes don't start out as your perfect little misunderstood angels and can be people you LEAST expect, even with the person themselves least expecting they CAN or even SHOULD be a hero with their own track record. Maybe people don't think Chloe DESERVES to be a hero but our thoughts are not the final say, even extendting out to real life. We may not THINK someone deserves a second chance or can even change but there are times when we are proven wrong and it shows that even as open as we THINK we are, we can be closed minded in accepting others if they don't meet the standards WE put up for them.

      Chloe becoming QB (again....if this is real. Who knows, it could be ANOTHER BLOND???) and having spats with Ladybug would be great, especially if in the end their goals are the same; to help people. Along the way, both girls can learn lessons of one another with Maironette/LB learning that Chloe is not incompetent, can be a hero and even she looked at her from the wrong side while at the same time Chloe could learn things like the dangers of being a hero (its not for the glamor) the danger she can put others in and so on.

      I feel like I'm one of the few people who LIKES Chloe as a character. I am aware she is a trope but if there is one thing I have liked about her its that the crew have shown that she is HUMAN. A lot of the pushback stems from people who use her as an avatar to represent everyone they hate which is one of the reasons they don't want her to be a hero. That would mean the person they created her out to be is moving on and given new chances which is something THEY don't want. They WANT her to fail, they WANT her to be bad, they want her to be the one they can rub their own accomplishments in the face of beause they didn't have the chance to do so to the real people in real life. This happens all the time to characters like this and while I can understand some of the personal motive I just don't think a character sholuld be saddled with being a punching bag by the fandom when they've been developed beyond the point where they began. People don't want the idea of a character like Chloe changing and learning to be a better person. They want characters like Chloe to SUFFER which shows the mindset of the people watching.

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    • Chloe could be Queen bee, but she would probably struggle emotionally and/or mentally because of her reputation, her meanness, etc. but she would make a great queen bee because she represents a bee by the way she lives.

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    • I have a feeling something that deals with her dad will come into play with all of this. She could have many things that will challenge her if she becomes QB but what is (or WHO is) one person who could have a MASSIVE impact on her should something happen to him?

      Or we can even have something happen to Sabrina. In Anti-Bug, we see that she does care about her and knows a LOT about her, to the point she RIGHTFULLY guessed what item of hers was akumazied (I hate spelling that word but you know what I mean) when Ladybug, the hero who spends most of her time fighting Akuma-infused people just made a wild guess and got it WRONG. Sabrina could be held hostage or something or shown to jump in to save Chloe before she gets her powers and she (Chloe) gets them via the panic and thoughts that she can't save her friend.

      Right now, these are all guesses and we'll have to wait and see what happens and what path this character is taken.

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    • Actually, having something happen to Sabrina is the perfect way to impact Chloe and get her to start taking things seriously. Nice theory. 

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    • DarkClaw3 wrote:
      Actually, having something happen to Sabrina is the perfect way to impact Chloe and get her to start taking things seriously. Nice theory. 

      Thanks. As I said, it either be Sabrina or her dad, two people she holds very close and could be the target of something dangerous. Sabrina was already used once (though her akuma version was left to be desired since from the outline, she was still in her normal clothing and she never got a good 'VISIBLE' costume) so either they're going to put Sabrina in danger again or have something happen to Chloe's dad. If what a lot of theories have said about Chloe's mother being deceased is TRUE this WILL hit massivly if a threat happens on her father. Chloe (may have) already lost her mother and she'd fall apart if she had to watch her dad come to the same fate.

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    • Personally, I think that Chloe would make a great Queen Bee, but she is so stubborn, that she would probably use her power to make her famous. (Kudos if you agree) She isn't afraid to speak her mind, which, in some cases might be good but in most cases it lands her in trouble. The input I have is, when her mother left/disappeared, she was very sad, so she takes it out on everyone else, especially Marrinette, because everyone else has good relationships with their moms. She likes Adrien because, like her, his mom disappeared.

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    • JumpUpandDown wrote:
      DarkClaw3 wrote:
      Actually, having something happen to Sabrina is the perfect way to impact Chloe and get her to start taking things seriously. Nice theory. 
      Thanks. As I said, it either be Sabrina or her dad, two people she holds very close and could be the target of something dangerous. Sabrina was already used once (though her akuma version was left to be desired since from the outline, she was still in her normal clothing and she never got a good 'VISIBLE' costume) so either they're going to put Sabrina in danger again or have something happen to Chloe's dad. If what a lot of theories have said about Chloe's mother being deceased is TRUE this WILL hit massivly if a threat happens on her father. Chloe (may have) already lost her mother and she'd fall apart if she had to watch her dad come to the same fate.

      I think that if someone targeted her father, she would be affected more, because, Family before Friends, so that could be what would cause her to become a hero.

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    • Flame39 wrote:
      Personally, I think that Chloe would make a great Queen Bee, but she is so stubborn, that she would probably use her power to make her famous. (Kudos if you agree) She isn't afraid to speak her mind, which, in some cases might be good but in most cases it lands her in trouble. The input I have is, when her mother left/disappeared, she was very sad, so she takes it out on everyone else, especially Marrinette, because everyone else has good relationships with their moms. She likes Adrien because, like her, his mom disappeared.


      Queen Bees are usually seen as uppity and out-spoken but also powerful, reseliant, and (if you have ever delt with bees) DANGEROUS when ya mess with them and their hive so yeah....Chloe to a T.

      And good point on being famous. Ladybug and Chat Noir are LOVED by the media though when Chloe wanted to be Ladybug, she did show more that she wanted to be HEROIC vers loved by the media when she went in to help Lady B save Sabrina. If you look back at that episode, while Chloe can not match all of Lady B's skills her want to be just like her has lead to her learning some moves on her own as well as how to recognize Akuma points on people. As Anti-Bug she was probably one of the hardest one-on-one villans to face and that's because she already knew all of Lady B and Chat's moves from observing and learning from them and with the Akumization, her skills were HEIGHTNED. With Pollen, she'll have those skills heightned again but she will have her own free will on what she wants to do with them. The choice is hers in the end.

      I don't doubt she'd loved some attention for her heroics (once she gets the hang of them) and who knows. Maybe Chloe's LOVE for attention would get Lady and Chat to realize how dangerous it is to get THAT MUCH ATTENTION from the press as it could blow their cover. It could change how they operate as a whole for the story. I just want to see how she lies to her dad when she's out in public. And now I'm laughing at the thought that she gets him to buy her more gifts by going;

      Queen Bee: And you're poor daughter! She is so distraught! You know what would make her feel better? Perhaps taking her out to the movies! And then you can have lunch on the yaht! She told me this by the way and it touched my heart since she also said you were the best, nicest father in the world! Queen Bee would NEVER lie!

      • flies off, leaving a confused and astounded Mayor*
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    • Ha! 

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    • If Chloe's absent mother is akumatised into Style Queen, how awesome would a one-on-one battle between Style Queen and Queen Bee be? I think it could be something like the Agni Kai in ATLA. It could allow for some really intense emotional development for Chloe.

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    • JumpUpandDown wrote:

      As Anti-Bug she was probably one of the hardest one-on-one villans to face and that's because she already knew all of Lady B and Chat's moves from observing and learning from them and with the Akumization, her skills were HEIGHTNED. With Pollen, she'll have those skills heightned again but she will have her own free will on what she wants to do with them. The choice is hers in the end.

      Technically, she had her free will as Antibug as well. As with all Akuma, Hawkmoth exploited her anger and used it as his way of convincing Chloe to use her powers to destroy Ladybug, but if he wasn't a factor, she could have chosen to use those powers in other, more heroic ways.

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    • To be honest in Lady Wifi she sucked at pretending to be Ladybug so I Think she'll be rubbish at a superhero

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    • True, but you know what they say,"don't judge a book by its cover" so don't judge Chloe by one episode.

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    • Good point but she was good at being Antibug so I guess the akuma heightens there combat skills so I hope pollen does the same

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    • Yes. Although it could also be based on her power as a miraculous holder.

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    • I try not to be too biased.

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    • Maybe Marinette may give the miraculous to the holders, the bee and the fox kwami, since the last eposode was when she went to Master Fu.

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    • Can someone please close this discussion? I'm getting tired of getting notifications on it, quite honestly.

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    • Click "unfollow" on the first message to stop receiving notifictions from this thread. There's no need to close this, it's unfair to other users who still want to discussion this topic.

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    • There is no unfollow button!

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    • There is at the top right corner of the first message. Unfollow it to stop receiving notifications, sweetie. :)  Unfollow help

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    • Thanks!

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    • hey guys...when will season 2 be out and will it be on Netflix?

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    • It will be coming out in december if you want more info go to the Q&A board and there will be a topic saying Is S2 Out Yet?

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    • Chloe Bourgeois as Queen Bee :D

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    • I know iam excited right.

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    • I wonder how she would behave as a superhero.

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    • Unfortunate8Cookies wrote: I wonder how she would behave as a superhero.

      Hmm... maybe she’d be reckless at first, but then learn from Cat Noir and Ladybug. Remember that this is just speculation though.

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    • Any ideas for Style Queen? There seems to be a dark version of Queen Bee.

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    • Flame39 wrote:
      Any ideas for Style Queen? There seems to be a dark version of Queen Bee.

      Not Chloe for sure maybe a new character will be introduced like Chloe's cousin or a relative.

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    • This is Chloe Bourgeois as Queen Bee


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    • But, what if Pollen (Chloé’s Kwami) was akumatized?

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    • Unfortunate8Cookies wrote:
      I wonder how she would behave as a superhero.

      Don't you mean BEEHAVE?

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:

      Unfortunate8Cookies wrote:
      I wonder how she would behave as a superhero.

      Don't you mean BEEHAVE?

      Ha! Very funny! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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    • 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝

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    • Flame39 wrote:
      But, what if Pollen (Chloé’s Kwami) was akumatized?

      I don't think she can be akumatized.

      Nooroo, A Kwami, is the reason Hawk Moth can akumatize people therefore Nooroo would not want Kwamis to be akumatized unless he's evil which hes not as shown in Stoneheart.

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      Unfortunate8Cookies wrote:
      I wonder how she would behave as a superhero.
      Don't you mean BEEHAVE?

      I should hire you to make puns.    ;)

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    • DespairBears wrote:

      Flame39 wrote:
      But, what if Pollen (Chloé’s Kwami) was akumatized?

      I don't think she can be akumatized.

      Nooroo, A Kwami, is the reason Hawk Moth can akumatize people therefore Nooroo would not want Kwamis to be akumatized unless he's evil which hes not as shown in Stoneheart.


      Ah, but that’s where I caught you. Nooroo isn’t the leader of Kwamis, is he? He can’t stop Gabriel Agreste from Akumatizing Kwamis as long as Gabriel is transformed. All in all, there is still a tiny possibility that a Pollen gets Akumatized, thus making Dark (Queen) Bee.

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    • I hope she Reforms herself sooner or later.

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    • But what is reformation? You would have to explain that to us for it to make sense. And, who would be “Reformed?” Please explain that to us.

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    • Flame39 wrote:
      But what is reformation? You would have to explain that to us for it to make sense. And, who would be “Reformed?” Please explain that to us.

      When a character "reforms", it usually means that they go from bad to good, or at the very least, apologise or make up for their mistakes. It doesn't mean that they become a complete "goody-goody" it just means that they're a better version of themslves.

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    • My idea about how she will become a better person is through her mother Audrey. Whether she still loves Audrey or hates her (I feel like it will be the latter), her abandonment left a lasting impact on Chloe. Perhaps to compensate for her loss, Chloe tried to fill her mother's shoes in the family, which resulted in her becoming just like her mother. If Chloe resents Audrey, perhaps it's this resentment that causes Audrey to become akumatised.

      I feel like Chloe (whether she has the Bee Miraculous or not) will have to face Audrey as Style Queen and confront her over her feelings of abandonment. It would be an incredibly cathartic moment for Chloe and a huge realisation for her character. Chloe facing up against Style Queen will be like Chloe facing up against herself. We have to remember that Chloe is a coward; almost all of her actions are out of fear. Her fear of becoming like her mother could start her on the path to redemption until she develops her own sense of right and wrong. 

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    • Wow. That post was heartbreaking and informative at the same time💔💔💔💔💔💔. But nice thought about her resentment of her mother. Every man/woman has his/her breaking point, and that could be Chloé’s.

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    • I think she'll be a great miraculous holder, considering she survives season 2. There's no way they would keep her in the team if she wasn't competent. No seriously, I can't wait to see her as Queen Bee, I bet she will "bee" awesome. She might be the Anti-Ladybug, another insect themed heroine but with different powers and of course attitude. Would be interesting to see her dynamic with the other holders, I'm pretty sure Chat Noir wouldn't have much trouble with her.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      I think she'll be a great miraculous holder, considering she survives season 2. There's no way they would keep her in the team if she wasn't competent. No seriously, I can't wait to see her as Queen Bee, I bet she will "bee" awesome. She might be the Anti-Ladybug, another insect themed heroine but with different powers and of course attitude. Would be interesting to see her dynamic with the other holders, I'm pretty sure Chat Noir wouldn't have much trouble with her.

      I second this. When you give someone as egotistical and arrogant as Chole superpowers, there are always bound to be interesting results. I feel that Fu will give her the Bee Miraculous based on the fact that he sees potential in her, not because she becomes a wholely good person at some point. I mean, if you take out Chloe's negative traits, you just take away Chloe. 

      If her personality stays relatively consistent between now and she becomes Queen Bee, then I also look forward to seeing how she's interact with the other heroes. She and Marinette will chew each other's heads off for sure. 

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