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  • Lets face it, Cat Noir seems to be less powerful than ladybug, he can't purify akuma's, his weapon has less functions, he only has one special power (cataclysm as cat senses don't drain plagg) opposed to ladybug's two (lucky charm and miraculous ladybug) not to mention that he is always being put under the influence of the akumatized villians and ladybug ends up saving the day. So is Cat Noir really weaker than ladybug? I say yes.

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    • Cat Noir's job is to protect Ladybug. To him, it does not matter if he gets hurt so long as she is safe. That is why he is controlled so often; he doesn't think about how he can get them both out, just how he can protect her. If Cat Noir and Ladybug fought each other in their right minds (and this is only if Cat Noir wasn't in love with her), then Cat Noir could beat Ladybug. His only problem would be her speed because while Cat Noir is stronger, she is quicker. As to the powers, Cat Noir has other enhancements to his suit (the night vision and preternatural hearing) to aid him in aiding Ladybug.

      When it comes to Ladybug, her suit is not built for fighting like Cat Noir's suit. Her suit is built for speed so that she can get around and away in order for her to come up with a plan. She can think of ways to get both of them out of whatever situation she's in to where both of them will be safe. Ladybug can take down the akumas without Cat Noir's help, but it is more difficult for her. (If anyone chooses to use the Puppeteer episode against me, while Manon is one of the most powerful akuma, she is still a child and the people under her control all shared her young mind.)

      Papapillon once said that in a fight between Ladybug and Cat Noir that "love wins." At the time, since it was just after Dark Cupid came out, people took this to mean that Ladybug will always win, since she kissed him and broke the spell on him. The phrase "love wins" can be flipped around to Cat Noir as well; he loved her so much that he wanted to destroy her. Imagine how he fighting Ladybug while in his right mind would be considering how much he loves her.

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    • Oh, and the only function less that the staff has (other than purifying akuma) is that it lacks a mirror. Really, his staff is an advantage compared to the yo-yo since he can break it in two and fight with both.

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    • i wasn't counting his cat senses as they don't turn him back to normal the way any special power would

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    • Yeah, but those are things that he has and Ladybug doesn't. We don't currently know if Cat Noir has a second power. If he doesn't, then it could be because of the extra things his suit provides.

      It seems a bit odd that the two Miraculouses that are supposed to be equal opposites of each other are uneven with the Ladybug Miraculous having two powers instead of one, but then again, Cat Noir has more cat tendencies from his Miraculous than Ladybug does (running on all fours, enjoying scratches under the chin, et cetera).

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    • acting like the animal you personify is not a power and how can one personify a ladybug?

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    • Master Fu is 186. Most sea turtles live an average of 150 years. How can you not say that is a power?

      The majority of fans speculate that the tendencies Marinette inherited are confidence and good luck, considering how she was not confident at all before she met Tikki and when she first became Ladybug and how her life has changed since then.

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    • Chat noir is just slightly careless and cocky. If he became more disciplined like ladybug, he would do better. But thats just not his style

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    • so beacause he is cocky you believe that it effects his preformance as a hero?

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    • i think he should be stronger as in the lengend it says he has the pwer of destruction and bad luck unlike ladybug which says she is creative but chat noir just isn't really using it i guess but why wouldn't he want to show off to ladybuf after all he crushes on her. 

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    • how is Chat Noir not using his power of destruction when he clearly uses his cataclysm and i'd think he would show off and boast based on how he tries to win her affection.

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    • Volpina-illusions but I think she has another power like Lucky charm or cataclysm ! But in other thinking if only Ladybug and Cat Noir are the most powerful they also are the only one having lucky charm and cataclysm.Copycat used cataclysm why wouldn't Volpina use it (And by Volpina I mean akumatized Lila)

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    • by power like lucky charm or cataclysm you mean a unique superpower right?

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    • I think she would have a unique superpower because when Lila buys the necklace it has to lines on it and when she becomes akumatised she has 5 lines on the necklace which means that she could have a superpower and runout of poer throught the lines of the necklace.
      Lila necklace

      before akamatising

      Volpina necklace

      After akumatising

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    • it would make sense. that neclace is an exact replica of the fox miraculous

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    • When Lila was unakumatized why did she took necklace and "hug" it like it is a miraculous !

      And in the miraculous box behind the  fox miraculous we saw a symbol similar to the symbol that's on the Nathanael t-shirt !
      Tumblr nxouryqbP01qe62fxo3 1280

      Nathanel's T-shirt

      Fox miraculous symbol

      Look at the fox miraculous

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    • so, yes, you're saying that each miraculous has a special power. But i doubt Lila has the real miraculous.

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    • Lila bought the necklace!

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    • But . . . she's rich, or at least famous right? Someone could have made is for her/

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    • Lila's neither rich nor famous. She is a liar and lied the entire episode. She bought the necklace from Gabriel's jewelry story.

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    • Oh! Right, Tikki mentioned she was that good of a liar.

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    • But why would Ladybug be powerful than Volpina ? If they both have special powers I don't see the difference

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    • Why would Gabriel copy miraculouses! Maybe he isn't good designer maybe all his creations comes from miraculous book ! That would explain why we only saw a perfume that isn't similar to the miraculouses.And he is afraid to show up because he thinks someone can discover his secret.

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    • Lady Misfortune wrote:
      But why would Ladybug be powerful than Volpina ? If they both have special powers I don't see the difference

      Well first of all Ladybug would be more powerful then Volpina as Haawkmoth wants the miraculous so bad to have god-like powers from getting the cat and ladybug miraculous whch could mean they are the strongest ones and also that in the box setting the cat and ladybug miraculous sit at the top and at the bottom is the bee,peacock,fox,turtle and butterfly miraculous ao if the ladybug and the cat miraculouses are so powerful they should be on the top.


      My theory is that the miraculous under the cat and the ladybug miraculous add up to the power of the cat and ladybug miraclouses put together, which means chat and ladybug have qual amounts of power


      This may seem confusing

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    • I think I get where you're going. It was specifically stated that the most powerful of the miraculouses were the ladybug and the black cat, and that together the wielder would have insane power. I think that theory makes sense, but I'm not sure if all the other miraculous were put together that they would add up to the ladybug and black cat. I feel like the other miraculous are too powerful for that. Alone, they couldn't stand up to the ladybug and black cat. But if the foc, the butterfly, the turtle, the bee and the peacock faced the ladybug and the black cat, I'm not sure which side would win. Numbers may actually have the advantage in this case because power is fairly balanced.

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    • we also have to take power into account. we know what kind of powers some miraculouses however we don't know what kind of powers the peacock, turtle and bee miraculous have. we can only speculate that the fox miraculous has the same powers as Volpina. Not to mention that Hawkmoth has the potential to create an entire army if he desired.

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    • I don't think Hawkmoth could create an entire army. If creating an akuma was his special power - just like Lucky Charm and Cataclysm - then he would probably only be able to make one at a time, and not only that be he should have a five minute limit on it. There are a couple of solutions I can think of immediately.

      One is that Hawkmoth has found a way around the miraculous timer. I refuse to believe his doesn't have a timer, because that would be an outrageously unfair advantage to Hawkmoth. He's already using the miraculous for an unintended purpose. Why can't he fiddle around with it ever more to suit his evil desires? It would make sense.

      A second solution is that it does have a timer, but the powers don't necessarily coincide with this. Hang with me here on this one, I've got examples. In the Pharaoh, Chat used Cataclysm to destroy the bars, but the bars didn't become undamaged when he reverted back to Adrien. Similarly, Lucky Charms and Miraculous Ladybug stick around after Ladybug has detransformed back to Marinette. Therefore it makes sense that Hawkmoth should be able to create an akuma and have it still wreck havoc while his miraculous recharges. 

      In the second solution, I suppose it is possible to create an army, but it would be exhausting and take up much time. Hawkmoth would have to akumatise someone, keep them busy, recharge his miraculous, then rinse and repeat. By then, Ladybug and Chat Noir probably would've arrived to do damage control, and the whole army thing is pointless. I don't think Hawkmoth would have the opportunity. Not to mention he'd have to find enough people to be able to akumatise. The possibilty is there, but I don't think the right circumstances are.

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    • i think it's pretty clear that akumatization isn't his special power seeing as it takes little to no effort to do one, not to mention there's no special sequence to summon it like a cataclysm or lucky charm.

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    • Then why Hawk Moth didn't use his special power to beat them 

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    • It's possible that he doesn't understand how it works, or maybe since the miraculouses were intended for good purposes, his special power, if it's not akuma-creating, doesn't suit the situation.

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    • if hawkmoth can use akuma's for evil it makes me wonder what his special power is and what it can do? maybe he can transform into a butterfly or something to escape the way Volpina's illusions protrayed it to do so.

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    • Am I the only one who thinks Ladybug underestimate/undervalues Cat Noir. Like seriously, if you look at it in The Puppeteer, she doesn't even try to save Cat Noir's doll, she only saves hers. If you ask me, she is very selfish.

      And also, they need to have at LEAST 1 episode where  CAT NOIR  saves the day. Ladybug has done it TWICE, so I don't see why Cat Noir can't have the glory AT LEAST ONCE.

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    • Ladybug did try to save his doll, but then Lady Wifi froze her, and later, escaped. She DID apologize to Cat Noir, anyway.

      Although I agree that Cat noir should play a more active roll in defeating the villains.

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    • Chat Noir does deserve more credit for all that he does. Otherwise he would just appear to be ladybug's sidekick which i sometimes think that could be how Ladybug sees him.

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    • Alright, this debate goes on and on, but I can definitely put a stop to this one idea. Ladybug most definitely, 100%, does not see Chat Noir as a sidekick. She does not think of him as anything other than her equal. I have two examples off the top of my head as proof of this.

      One: After using cataclysm on the bars in the Museum, Chat is forced to leave to recharge his miraculous to continue fighting in The Pharaoh. At this point, Ladybug takes him by the shoulders and says (and I'm quoting the transcript) "Hurry up. It's gonna take both of us to defeat him." Ladybug just said she needs Chat. You don't say that sort of thing to a sidekick. If she had phrased it, "I'm gonna need your help to defeat him," that would suggest a sidekick position, but she specifically said that it will take the both of them to take down Pharaoh. 

      Two: In the episode Antibug, Marinette uses a recording of herself as Ladybug telling the media that she and Chat Noir are a team; a team. Later, she reiterates this when Antibug rebukes Chat for being second place. Ladybug tells Antibug/Chloe that she and Chat Noir are a team and she needs him as much as he ever needs her. In this scene, you can spot a look on Chat's face as Ladybug leans on his shoulder, and its a look of content. He is completely relaxed and carefree. Reading into this says that Chat Noir was never once worried that she saw him as a sidekick. 

      Ladybug needs Chat Noir. Chat Noir needs Ladybug. That's the way they see it. How we see it is entirely different.

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    • the way i see it is more statistically and until i see Chat use a miraculous chat noir (which when you think about it would very likely be a terrible idea and could destroy all of paris if Chat was a villian) or some other power i will likely see him as weaker.

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    • My final conclusion is that neither Ladybug nor Chat Noir are more powerful than the other. Put simply, each of them have abilities that suit differnt situations. Chat Noir would not be able to protect Paris without Ladybug and Ladybug would not be able to protect Paris without Chat Noir. 

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    • and yet it would be no trouble for Chat to destroy all of paris?

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    • Would it not also be no trouble for Ladybug to destroy Paris? We have only seen Lucky Charm used for good. But then, the butterfly miraculous was meant to be used for good, too. It's entirely possible that the if the ladybug miraculous were to be misused, Ladybug could be just as destructive as Hawkmoth. After all, the butterfly miraculous was meant to imbue chosen heroes with power. If Ladybug were to "taint" the miraculous by doing evil, surely Lucky Charm would present her with something to aid her goals, whatever they may be. Similarly, Cataclysm is a destructive power, but Chat Noir uses it for good. If he turned bad, he also could probably "taint" the black cat miraculous. 

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    • i would believe that when a villain can destroy everyhting they can touch and they can destroy all of paris it would be easier than a villian who can summon a random object and be forced to figure out how to use it

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    • I actually think that Cat Noir is equal to Ladybug; both are heroes and without Cat Noir, Ladybug wouldn't be able to save the day all the time. Anyway, both are very strong in their own ways so comparing them is pretty much useless.

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    • I think that Cat Noir is equal to ladybug.But,when he is in love with her,he can not focus.The reason why Cat Noir is always With Ladybug because Cat Noir Protects Ladybug.If a an evil person (Which is hawkmoth) Takes Ladybugs,Cat noir can not save the day because only ladybug purifys the akumas.But if he takes Cat Noir's Ladybug could still save the day but,be more harder and unprotected.So,they are equal like yin and yang that is why the box has yin and yang symbol in it.

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    • that is somewhat negated with his inability to do anything with an akuma and cat senses do not make up for it.

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    • I think it's mostly because he wasn't meant to destroy akumas; he just helps Ladybug and Ladybug needs his help anyway. He's also really cocky and doesn't think carefully before he does anything as Cat Noir, so that's most likely the reason why he doesn't seem stronger than Ladybug. At the end of the day both have powerful Miraculouses and both are the savers of the day, so I think they're equal, just that they do things differently, leading to consequenses.

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    • About his inability to do anything with an akuma, it isn't entirely true. He has proved to be essential in defeating the akuma. While Chat Noir does needed to get saved by Ladybug, Ladybug also needed to get saved by him several times. Plus, I think it is mostly likely his attitude that is affecting his performance, he seems to be more relaxed and less serious than Ladybug in battle. This is evident as seen in "Jackady," where when he is really very serious and focused on defeating the akuma in order to save Gabriel, and in the end he did most of the work and even outshined Ladybug.

      About not having another power such as the healing wave like Ladybug, I think that he actually has another power that will probably be revealed in Season 2 since they're the yin and yang, which meant that they're both equal.

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    • if that is the case then he should have a wave of destruction, a "miraculous chat noir" if you will and i believe they are both getting new powers next season.

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    • Thomas Astruc even said that Miraculous Holders DON'T HAVE THE FULL POWER OF MIRACULOUSES!

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    • i know they don't have the full power of their miraculouses but even then LB still has more power than Chat starting out.

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    • I think cat noir will have better powers in season 2 and may get an upgrade

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    • Hopefully because he needs something else other than Cataclysm.

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    • Glace Noir wrote:
      Hopefully because he needs something else other than Cataclysm.

      Yeah.

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    • they are intended to gain new powers next season. My hope is that he can generate cat claws

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      they are intended to gain new powers next season. My hope is that he can generate cat claws

      Thank goodness!

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    • how long did you really expect a limit to cataclysm and lucky charm?

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    • I hope that it is something really cool...

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    • We already found out Ladybug's new powers which are: Stone of the sun, stonne of the moon, pearl of the sea, pearl of the heart and pearl of mysteries. makes me wonder if Chat will have similar abilities becausethesze powers are likely quite powerful.

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote: We already found out Ladybug's new powers which are: Stone of the sun, stonne of the moon, pearl of the sea, pearl of the heart and pearl of mysteries. makes me wonder if Chat will have similar abilities becausethesze powers are likely quite powerful.

      to elaborate on this, i found an image that shows the text underneath all of the stones/pearls clearly enough to read and it looks like chat noir will be getting a significant upgrade if ladybug is getting these. (spoilers for the stones/pearls below ofc) stone of the moon: breathe and fly in space; stone of the sun: flight powers; pearl of the sea: breathe and swim in water; pearl of mysteries: infinite lucky charms; pearl of the heart: can't be akumatised

      so yeah, if ladybug will be getting any of these (assumably not all at once, that'd be severely overpowered not to mention unnecessary) chat noir will undoubtedly be seeing a lot of future upgrades too, otherwise he'd be left in the dust.

      on that note, the ability of the pearl of the heart kinda suggests that miraculous holders arent actually immune to akumatisation, doesnt it?

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    • that point is intresting but can you also show me the image where it brings up Chat's upgrades please?

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    • Opalyte wrote:

      Avatar thoyrn wrote: We already found out Ladybug's new powers which are: Stone of the sun, stonne of the moon, pearl of the sea, pearl of the heart and pearl of mysteries. makes me wonder if Chat will have similar abilities becausethesze powers are likely quite powerful.

      to elaborate on this, i found an image that shows the text underneath all of the stones/pearls clearly enough to read and it looks like chat noir will be getting a significant upgrade if ladybug is getting these. (spoilers for the stones/pearls below ofc)

      stone of the moon: breathe and fly in space stone of the sun: flight powers pearl of the sea: breathe and swim in water pearl of mysteries: infinite lucky charms pearl of the heart: can't be akumatised

      so yeah, if ladybug will be getting any of these (assumably not all at once, that'd be severely overpowered not to mention unnecessary) chat noir will undoubtedly be seeing a lot of future upgrades too, otherwise he'd be left in the dust.

      on that note, the ability of the pearl of the heart kinda suggests that miraculous holders arent actually immune to akumatisation, doesnt it?

      What on earth are you talking about? 

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    • Ladybug's new powers and the powers Chat could get. I still hope for more animal-like powers such as Chbat generating kitty claws or Ladybug being able to sense whatever insects sense with antenna 

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      Ladybug's new powers and the powers Chat could get. I still hope for more animal-like powers such as Chbat generating kitty claws or Ladybug being able to sense whatever insects sense with antenna 

      I still have no clue what you're talking about. "Stone of the Sun"??? Where did you get this information?

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    • its all from the new york comic con miraculous panel, i think!! a ton of images regarding season two were released, including one pertaining to the stones and pearls. worth looking it up if you havent yet, though there are a LOT of big spoilers!!

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    • wonder when we'll learn Chat's new powers

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    • First, we still don't exact know at those are. I just looked up Tansy's notes on NYCC and the pearls are probably toys. Second, when discussing spoilers in a spoiler-free post use the SpoilerButton and HideSpoiler template.

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    • Actually, the Lucky Charm pearl toys and the stones and pearls appear to be separate things. This link is to where the crew was talking about the Lucky Charm toys, and this is the image released of the Miraculous powers and where it was shown (along with the rest of the Season 2/Season 3 sneak peaks).
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    • I would say Chat Noir is stronger. He destroyed a freaking dimension, after all. And I say Ladybug only needs to purifies akumas, but if Hawk Moth were to use his powers for good instead of evil, I'm pretty sure Ladybug would be more sidelined while Chat Noir would be more in the fray. He's more offensive, while she's support, cause apart from bonking the yo-yo on someone's head she doesn't have any attacks, just tricks and random objects who happens to always be the right one for the situation to outsmart her opponents and beat them, while Chat Noir has a staff that can split into 2, and Cataclysm, which destoys everything. She traps them too with her yo-yo like Wonder Woman's lasso, but it's just to immobilize. If Chat Noir would use his brain more, he could beat her easy. He's way more laid-back as a civilain, while Ladybug freaks out at about anything that can happen wrong and acts rashly (steal Adrien, Alya, Chloé and the photographer's stuff instead of maybe thinking a less extreme and take another solution, which she does at the end but still.)

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    • if Chat is stronger where are his five new powers?

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    • Cat Noir is a sidekick for Lady Bug

      He gives Lady Bug a emotional and physical support

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      I would say Chat Noir is stronger. He destroyed a freaking dimension, after all. And I say Ladybug only needs to purifies akumas, but if Hawk Moth were to use his powers for good instead of evil, I'm pretty sure Ladybug would be more sidelined while Chat Noir would be more in the fray. He's more offensive, while she's support, cause apart from bonking the yo-yo on someone's head she doesn't have any attacks, just tricks and random objects who happens to always be the right one for the situation to outsmart her opponents and beat them, while Chat Noir has a staff that can split into 2, and Cataclysm, which destoys everything. She traps them too with her yo-yo like Wonder Woman's lasso, but it's just to immobilize. If Chat Noir would use his brain more, he could beat her easy. He's way more laid-back as a civilain, while Ladybug freaks out at about anything that can happen wrong and acts rashly (steal Adrien, Alya, Chloé and the photographer's stuff instead of maybe thinking a less extreme and take another solution, which she does at the end but still.)
      Ladybug is pretty smart plus she has five more power,NYCC released this spoilers.So I really think Ladybug is the most powerful one..Just my Opinion
      NYCC Powers Closer
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    • Which races some new questions: Exactly how far do Ladybug and Cat Noir's powers go as to balancing each other out? Can Cat Noir destroy one of Ladybug's Lucky Charm items, or even Ladybug herself with Cataclysm? If Ladybug and Cat Noir were enemies, could Ladybug summon a Lucky Charm weapon that was capable of killing Cat Noir? Jeez, they REALLY need to show us the full extent of their powers.

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    • Does chat noir have tail powers? If he doesn't the he could start using it as a weapon

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    • Cat noir should be more agile and flexible because cats have incredible flexibility and are very agile

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    • Midori Gurin (chan) wrote:

      Glace Noir wrote:
      Hopefully because he needs something else other than Cataclysm.

      Yeah.

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    • Ladybug should have a relationship with cat noir

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    • Tinkerkitty80 wrote:
      Ladybug should have a relationship with cat noir

      She should. But that's not the point of this thread.

      Ladybug and Cat Noir are pretty evenly matched, but I definitely think that Cat Noir is more powerful. He may only have one special power, but it's literally the power of destruction, with the limit of its devastation yet to be seen. Besides that, he's also super agile and moderately strong. Combining all that with his skill with the staff, and he could easily defeat Ladybug if he really wanted to (though of course he wouldn't). A lot of people seem to think that since Ladybug has more powers, she's stronger than Cat Noir, but he quite literally broke a demension. If he ever inexplicably decided to turn evil, Paris would be done for.

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    • It's interesting that in the episodes where Cat Noir gets turned against Ladybug ("Dark Cupid", "Princess Fragrance", and "The Puppeteer"), it's very clearly a Brainwashed and Crazy scenario rather than him fighting against her of his own accord, which makes me wonder if he might be more effective if he chose to be evil (or at least fight Ladybug) while in his right mind. Because in two of those scenarios ("Princess Fragrance" and "The Puppeteer"), Cat Noir is defeated pretty handily by Ladybug, yet he's supposed to be the wielder of the Miraculous that is of equal power to hers. So I wonder if he'd be more effective if he made the conscious choice to use his powers for evil purposes, rather than having his mind taken over by somebody else.

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    • Blueraspberyllium wrote:
      It's interesting that in the episodes where Cat Noir gets turned against Ladybug ("Dark Cupid", "Princess Fragrance", and "The Puppeteer"), it's very clearly a Brainwashed and Crazy scenario rather than him fighting against her of his own accord, which makes me wonder if he might be more effective if he chose to be evil (or at least fight Ladybug) while in his right mind. Because in two of those scenarios ("Princess Fragrance" and "The Puppeteer"), Cat Noir is defeated pretty handily by Ladybug, yet he's supposed to be the wielder of the Miraculous that is of equal power to hers. So I wonder if he'd be more effective if he made the conscious choice to use his powers for evil purposes, rather than having his mind taken over by somebody else.

      I get that, but look at dark cupid. Yes, Cat Noir got somewhat brainwashed, but he was THIS close to destroying LB with his cataclysm.

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    • Sort of but its really the power that makes him powerful, I mean think about it he can destory anything and ladybug can come up and create an item that will help her. However Ladybug is actually cleverer then Chat Noir because she comes up with all those ideas of how to use a marble to defeat Antibug, or a cloth of wool to defeat Stormy Weather.

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    • I bet Ladybug seems more important because the villain they're fighting right now has a skillset that is opposite to hers. I bet if a new miraculous holder villain emerged, he or she would have skills that need to be defeated by Cat. And remember, Ladybug didn't know she wasn't supposed to purify the akuma when she first arrived. Tiki never told her. It was an added power that she had to learn. If there was a villain paired against Cat, he'd probably have to learn the counter-attack from Plagg. Honestly, I can't wait for that to happen.

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    • Lightbearer Storycraft wrote:
      I bet Ladybug seems more important because the villain they're fighting right now has a skillset that is opposite to hers. I bet if a new miraculous holder villain emerged, he or she would have skills that need to be defeated by Cat. And remember, Ladybug didn't know she wasn't supposed to purify the akuma when she first arrived. Tiki never told her. It was an added power that she had to learn. If there was a villain paired against Cat, he'd probably have to learn the counter-attack from Plagg. Honestly, I can't wait for that to happen.

      Yeah, that makes sense! Although we must remember that Tikki did say that she must 'encapture' the Akuma... guess we'll just have to wait for season 2....

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    • I too beleive that Chat Noir could defeat Ladybug if he really wanted too. I mean in "Dark Cupid" and "Despair Bear" she was THIS close to catching a cataclysm in the face.

      Also am I the only one who wants to know what effect cataclysm has on a person.

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    • TheQueenJess wrote:

      Also, am I the only one who wants to know what effect cataclysm has on a person.

      Honestly, I'm a little afraid to find out. Maybe they just...disintegrate or something?

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    • RandomGirl1995 wrote:
      TheQueenJess wrote:

      Also, am I the only one who wants to know what effect cataclysm has on a person.

      Honestly, I'm a little afraid to find out. Maybe they just...disintegrate or something?

      Yeah, I think so too.

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    • I'm not saying I want this to happen to LB, but I do kind of want to see what happens to someone if Cat used cataclysm on them

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    • Technically the answer to the question about which one is stronger changes depending on who we are talking about.

      If we are talking about if LBMarinette is stronger than CNAdrien, then I think the answer will probably be yes, but only because Mari seems to be faster learner and is better tactical planer etc. Plus, in this case we can use the seen fights as acceptable arguments

      If we are talking about if Chat Noirs in general are as strong as average Ladybugs then thinks are not as simple anymore. In theory they should be equals since Tikki and Plagg are ying to others yang. On the other hand, we do not know other standart skills than their weapons and special powers plus Chat's ability to see in dark.

      But in the end, if we take the most powerful LB ever and the most powerful CN ever, they would be equally skilled.

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    • Granaatti wrote:
      Technically the answer to the question about which one is stronger changes depending on who we are talking about.

      If we are talking about if LBMarinette is stronger than CNAdrien, then I think the answer is probably be yes, but only because Mari seems to be faster learner and is better tactical planer etc. Plus, in this case we can use the seen fights as acceptable arguments

      If we are talking about if Chat Noirs in general are as strong as average Ladybugs then thinks are not as simple anymore. In theory they should be equals since Tikki and Plagg are ying to others yang. On the other hand, we do not know other standart skills than their weapons and special powers plus Chat's ability to see in dark.

      But in the end, if we take the most powerful LB ever and the most powerful CN ever, they would be equally skilled.

      Yes, agreed. It makes much more sense then just assuming that Marinette and Adrien are equal and the Miraculouses themselves are at fault.

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    • Thus far it has always seemed like Ladybug is the stronger/smarter/more skilled out of the two. Something I find rather annoying, especially considering Adrien has been groomed and trained for years in fencing and other skills. Meanwhile, Marinette's only training is in sewing and gaming. I am actually beginning to wonder if their powers are a factor in how they perform in battle. We know that their powers are creation and destruction, but it has been made clear that there is a second attribute to their powers: good luck and bad luck.

      Think about it. As a civilian, Marinette is clumsy and unsure, while Ladybug is confident, skilled, and (let's face it) lucky. Adrien is smooth and clear headed, but Chat is arrogant and brash. Worse, Chat always seems to suffer from what? Bad luck. This makes him come off more as the goofy sidekick then the trusty partner Ladybug claims to have so much faith in. He is always the one unlucky enough to get controlled by the villain, or if Ladybug is in danger he throws himself in it's path for her. Lucky for her. Unlucky for him.

      What if their luck attributes affect their ability in combat? What if Chat suffers from his own bad luck to the point that it hurts his effectiveness? One of the key arguments in this thread is that Ladybug has two superpowers to Chat's one. But Ladybug's two powers are each based off one aspect of her kwami. Miraculous Ladybug for creation, Lucky Charm for, well, LUCK! Cataclysm is only the aspect of destruction for Chat Noir. What if he is being negatively affected by his bad luck powers because he has never unlocked how to use them properly?

      Then again I could just be overanalyzing this and the writers made it all this way for a girl power show. If that is the case, they need to get their heads out of their ass before they start turning people away. I like this show, but watching Chat Noir constantly having to have his butt saved is just becoming irritating. It's supposed to be about the two of them and their relationship, but it comes off as being dedicated strictly to Marinette. At this point I'm wondering how Marinette could fall for Adrien once she finds out he is the goofy partner she always has to rescue like a cat stuck in a tree (yes that pun was intentional).

      If the theory about the stones that give Ladybug more power are real, then where is Chat's upgrade? Is he going to stay the same mildly helpful dofus with the exact same powers that are constantly countered while she pulls further away? I'm perfectly fine with a strong female lead, but this is getting ridiculous...

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    • If I remember correctly, LB and CN's luck worked exactly like that in the original concept. All though back then Cat miraculous user was cursed with bad luck and the Chat Noir was trying to get rid of it by getting a true love kiss (or something like that) from Ladybug.

      But yeah, the whole being lucky/unlucky could explain why Chat gets his butt kicked so often.

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    • I honestly hope that is the case and they find a way to resolve that before Season 2 ends

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    • I really wish the series was about Cat/Adrien because he seems to be the better character. Marinette has so many "Kids, don't try this at home" moments and so many lapses in moral judgment. The only problem I have with Cat is his weird dual personality thing. It's so hard to see Cat as Adrien and vice versa. The only time I've seen Cat act like Adrien is in Dark Cupid and Collector, and the only time Adrien has acted like Cat is in Darkblade and maybe Riposte. The two personalities are so different. It's kind of creepy, honestly; it's like one of the personalities is an act he's simply putting on for someone. I wonder which personailty is really his.

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    • Lightbearer Storycraft wrote: I really wish the series was about Cat/Adrien because he seems to be the better character. Marinette has so many "Kids, don't try this at home" moments and so many lapses in moral judgment. The only problem I have with Cat is his weird dual personality thing. It's so hard to see Cat as Adrien and vice versa. The only time I've seen Cat act like Adrien is in Dark Cupid and Collector, and the only time Adrien has acted like Cat is in Darkblade and maybe Riposte. The two personalities are so different. It's kind of creepy, honestly; it's like one of the personalities is an act he's simply putting on for someone. I wonder which personailty is really his.

      That actually brings up another theory I had. You know how even though kwamis can't communicate with their miraculous holders during a fight, they still know everything that happened? What if the kwami are actually merging with the wielder? Not controlling them, but causing some influence. You have to admit that Chat acts a lot like Plagg. It would also explain Ladybug being so sure and confident like Tikki

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    • I think they have equal strengths. They can both use their weapons as shields, communication devices, cameras, and many other things. They both have agility, super speed and strength, amazing skills in both hand-to-hand fighting and with their weapons, etc. The only difference really is that she has good luck and creation, while he has bad luck and destruction.

      But, as Princess of Harte said waaaayyyyyyyy up there, (the first reply if you want to see) Cat Noir is ​more protective of the ones he loves. He will have absolutely no thought of his own safety when he sees Ladybug in danger; he'll go as far as risking his life or even giving it up (Timebreaker) if it'll keep her safe. And though Ladybug is the love of his life, he also shows protection for his father in Simon Says though losing his temper with him, and expresses care and worry for him in the Collector after he transforms back to normal when Ladybug captures the akuma and repairs the damage. He wasn't even paying attention to Ladybug when she raised her fist to fo "Pound It", which was only done before because he saw her acting irrationally and instead scolded her for it.

      Princess of Harte is right: it seems that it's the Black Cat's job to protect his Ladybug. I'm just curious to know if the others did so, too.

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    • Chaton15
      Chaton15 removed this reply because:
      no longer neccesary
      17:05, February 8, 2018
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    • Shadowcatsaber wrote:

      That actually brings up another theory I had. You know how even though kwamis can't communicate with their miraculous holders during a fight, they still know everything that happened? What if the kwami are actually merging with the wielder? Not controlling them, but causing some influence. You have to admit that Chat acts a lot like Plagg. It would also explain Ladybug being so sure and confident like Tikki

      That would make a lot of sense. I have been thinking about that for a while now. It is the only thing that makes sense about Chat's personality. Obviously the person still makes his own choices, but the kwami seems to influence him/her. Plagg has a stronger personality so I guess it makes sense that his influence shows up more in Adrien than Tikki does in Marinette. It would also be funny if Adrien is adopting Plagg's personality as Cat Noir because Plagg annoys him normally, just like Cat annoys Ladybug. Anyway, I hope that's the reason, because Cat/Adrien's dual personality was getting a little...strange.

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    • How was it getting strange?

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    • Shadowcatsaber wrote:<That actually brings up another theory I had. You know how even though kwamis can't communicate with their miraculous holders during a fight, they still know everything that happened? What if the kwami are actually merging with the wielder? Not controlling them, but causing some influence. You have to admit that Chat acts a lot like Plagg. It would also explain Ladybug being so sure and confident like Tikki


      I've had the same theory! Like, since I started watching Miraculous.

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    • Glace Noir wrote: Am I the only one who thinks Ladybug underestimate/undervalues Cat Noir. Like seriously, if you look at it in The Puppeteer, she doesn't even try to save Cat Noir's doll, she only saves hers. If you ask me, she is very selfish.

      And also, they need to have at LEAST 1 episode where  CAT NOIR  saves the day. Ladybug has done it TWICE, so I don't see why Cat Noir can't have the glory AT LEAST ONCE.

      Yeah! Chat is a hero too

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    • It technically wasn't her fault that she only grabbed the Ladybug doll. She managed to loop her string around it but had only just gotten it back to her when Lady Wifi froze her. And then she apologized when he asked her about it.

      There have been plenty of episodes where Chat is the real hero. Maybe not directly, but without him, Ladybug wouldn't be able to fight as well as she does. I saw this one thing on Pinterest that was saying something like "okay everyone's talking about how Ladybug single-handedly defeated five supervillains on her own, (Puppeteer) but why isn't anyone talking about how Cat Noir totally beat up a whole police force twice?" (Copycat and Rogercop)" I also like how the episode Antibug showed that even though he's nothing without her, she's nothing without him as well. They're a strong team. But yes, I do want to see an episode where he does most of the awesomesauce stuff and actually gets credit for it.

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    • Although Chat Noir and Ladybug are meant to be a team and equals (they are meant to be Ying and Yang to one another, so neither should be more powerful than the other), Ladybug seems to have some control issues and prefers to be the leader of their team. 

      On at least two occasions, I believe possibly more, she does mention that she and Chat Noir are a team and partners, however as far as I can recall (and please correct me if I am wrong) she never specifies that they have equal roles in that partnerships. However, in Puppeteer when Chat jokingly says “Don't let her make me a puppet! You know I like to be in command!”, Ladybug is very quick to correct him with “You mean second in command”. She could have made a different comment along the lines of “don’t get cocky; we’re an equal team remember” or something similar. It could very well be her just teasing him back, but to me it seems it is only half joking at the most and at least half serious.

      Of course there is always the chance that because the creators seem to be putting more emphases on making Marinette / Ladybug being the main character of the show (she gets more screen time than any other character including Adrien / Chat Noir) it could be that they themselves sometimes forget that the two superheroes are meant to be of equal power and share equal importance in their team. This means that in some instances it comes across as if they are portraying Ladybug as the main hero and Chat Noir the sidekick.

      The whole Ladybug is the main hero and Chat Noir the sidekick thing seems more emphasised by the fact that in the series itself Ladybug seems to have more fans than Chat Noir. The creators often show the citizens of Paris fangirling / fanboying / gushing over / talking about etc. over Ladybug. You very rarely see them getting as excited over Chat Noir unless Ladybug is part the conversation as well.

      Because we see this favouritism and focus towards Ladybug in the show by the citizens of Paris, it can make it harder for us as viewers to see them as being 100% equal, which can lead to us wondering if Chat is actually weaker even though the show has stated itself that they are meant to be of equal power.

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    • SingingHedgeSparrow wrote:

      The whole Ladybug is the main hero and Chat Noir the sidekick thing seems more emphasised by the fact that in the series itself Ladybug seems to have more fans than Chat Noir. The creators often show the citizens of Paris fangirling / fanboying / gushing over / talking about etc. over Ladybug. You very rarely see them getting as excited over Chat Noir unless Ladybug is part the conversation as well.

      Because we see this favouritism and focus towards Ladybug in the show by the citizens of Paris, it can make it harder for us as viewers to see them as being 100% equal, which can lead to us wondering if Chat is actually weaker even though the show has stated itself that they are meant to be of equal power.

      That's true, but remember; we do see people getting excited about Chat. Remember Copycat? When Copycat walks into the Louvre, we see people getting excited, taking pictures ect. He's not even doing anything superhero-ey, he's just walking. Of course, he's not the real Chat, but they don't know that. And again; when the statue is unveiled; no-body complains about Ladybug's absence, except Theo. Which is understandable; after all, he has a bit of a crush on her, and he made that huge statue for the two of them, and he'd be disappointed if only one of them came.

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    • Jeanne68 wrote:

      SingingHedgeSparrow wrote:

      The whole Ladybug is the main hero and Chat Noir the sidekick thing seems more emphasised by the fact that in the series itself Ladybug seems to have more fans than Chat Noir. The creators often show the citizens of Paris fangirling / fanboying / gushing over / talking about etc. over Ladybug. You very rarely see them getting as excited over Chat Noir unless Ladybug is part the conversation as well.

      Because we see this favouritism and focus towards Ladybug in the show by the citizens of Paris, it can make it harder for us as viewers to see them as being 100% equal, which can lead to us wondering if Chat is actually weaker even though the show has stated itself that they are meant to be of equal power.

      That's true, but remember; we do see people getting excited about Chat. Remember Copycat? When Copycat walks into the Louvre, we see people getting excited, taking pictures ect. He's not even doing anything superhero-ey, he's just walking. Of course, he's not the real Chat, but they don't know that. And again; when the statue is unveiled; no-body complains about Ladybug's absence, except Theo. Which is understandable; after all, he has a bit of a crush on her, and he made that huge statue for the two of them, and he'd be disappointed if only one of them came.

      Yeah, I saw a pin like that once. I really liked it. Everyone except Theo was absolutely fine with the fact that only Chat came. When Copycat came into the Louvre, the pinner pointed out a fangirl in the background. xD

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    • SingingHedgeSparrow
      SingingHedgeSparrow removed this reply because:
      Didn't post correctly
      19:42, February 10, 2018
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    • Jeanne68 wrote:

      That's true, but remember; we do see people getting excited about Chat. Remember Copycat? When Copycat walks into the Louvre, we see people getting excited, taking pictures ect. He's not even doing anything superhero-ey, he's just walking. Of course, he's not the real Chat, but they don't know that. And again; when the statue is unveiled; no-body complains about Ladybug's absence, except Theo. Which is understandable; after all, he has a bit of a crush on her, and he made that huge statue for the two of them, and he'd be disappointed if only one of them came.


      True, but in both those cases Chat Noir was on his own. As far as I can recall we have never seen the citizens of Paris give him more of their attention when Ladybug is around, however we have seen them give Ladybug more of their attention when Chat Noir is around. Similarly, we have seen individuals gushing or talking about Ladybug when neither superhero is present, but we don’t tend to see them doing the same for Chat Noir.

      I imagine that had Ladybug been present at the Louvre or the statue ceremony it would have been quite likely that the majority of people would have been focusing on her instead.

      It’s like if you see a minor celebrity at an event most people would give that celebrity attention because they are just excited about seeing a celebrity, however if a bigger celebrity were to come along the majority of people would then turn their attention to that celebrity.

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    • That's true, I never thought of that! I still think that it's partly because Marinette/Ladybug is the main character, and so we're more likely to see the public's opinion on her, but I get your point :) I think one thing to consider, though, is that Chat is very much a supporter. He stays out of the spotlight. But yeah, I get what you mean.

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    • Yeah, I don’t think Adrien / Chat actually minds being a bit more in the shadows compared to Ladybug and it probably is done because the creators want Marinette / Ladybug to be the main character. I just think that is one of the reasons why a lot of people are inclined to believe Chat is weaker. I’m looking forward to seeing their new powers when they eventually get them.

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    • Lady Wifi picture

      Lady Wifi pic

      This is what Chat is doing while Ladybug's doing business stuff. (look in the backround awwwww)
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    • Awwww. I never noticed that before. Chat is definitely a people person. 

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    • Yeah. LB is definetely the "public face" of the duo, but that doesn't mean Chat is weaker. :)

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    • yep. ^.^ I love how good he is with kids too. <3

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    • Random BlackMan 1
      Random BlackMan 1 removed this reply because:
      b
      18:38, July 29, 2018
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    • I would really like an episode where it chat is left to deal with an akuma on his own. Just so it can give him more character development

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    • Cheng The Nerd wrote: I would really like an episode where it chat is left to deal with an akuma on his own. Just so it can give him more character development

      He basically had to in Stoneheart pt. 2, and see where it got him . . .

      But then, the rule goes to both of them: even though Cat Noir is nothing without Ladybug, Ladybug is nothing without Cat Noir. They're a team; it's made pretty clear in Antibug.

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    • I think Adrien likes to give Ladybug the spotlight when he's Chat Noir because he's used to always have cameras and stuff around him as a civilian, as seen in Gorizilla and Origins, he is really popular too. So he might actually get a small break when he's Chat Noir. Given he has to deal with both in and outside the mask, he might consider Chat Noir to be his break, though he likes to show off since he can't do so as Adrien much. But we can say that if Ladybug takes just a hit from Chat Noir's Cataclysm, she's probably dead on the spot. If she can bring people back to life, he can definitly kills them with his power. As seen in Dark Cupid and Despair Bear, she came this close to die. 

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    • Chaton15 wrote:

      Cheng The Nerd wrote: I would really like an episode where it chat is left to deal with an akuma on his own. Just so it can give him more character development

      He basically had to in Stoneheart pt. 2, and see where it got him . . .

      But then, the rule goes to both of them: even though Cat Noir is nothing without Ladybug, Ladybug is nothing without Cat Noir. They're a team; it's made pretty clear in Antibug.


      Yea but we need more. I mean it's always him getting controlled by akumas or getting into tough s*** that LB has to clean up. Why can't it be the other way around. Where ladybug gets affected by an akuma and needs chat to save her

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    • Cheng The Nerd wrote:

      Yea but we need more. I mean it's always him getting controlled by akumas or getting into tough s*** that LB has to clean up. Why can't it be the other way around. Where ladybug gets affected by an akuma and needs chat to save her

      I feel like Ladybug's too important to be affected by an akuma in the show. The duo have rarely been able to snap others out of an akuma's influence before they get the akuma itself ---even in Chat Noir's case, the only time I can remember Ladybug breaking the spell prematurely was in Dark Cupid. if Ladybug was somehow controlled by an akuma, it's doubtful Chat could snap her out of it, and then who would be able to fix the akuma? No, I don't think Ladybug being influenced directly could work. But having her incapacitated somehow, and Chat figuring out by himself how to save the day? Yes, please. It's about time he stepped out of Ladybug's shadow.

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    • I don't think either is physically stronger or faster than the other. If there was a difference I'm pretty sure it would have been mentioned in the show. The thing is that Ladybug is a much smarter fighter than Chat is, who is often quite overconfident/reckless - which is why he often gets mind-controlled and why she is able to beat him when he gets turned against her. While Ladydbug is more competent she also has FAR more flaws to compensate and make her a well-rounded and interesting character.

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    • Chat Noir once destroyed an entire dimension, guess while Ladybug can recreate the world, he can destroy it. That's pretty huge.

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    • i wish for eisodes where for once chat gets the spotlight. it really helps with character development

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    • Yeah, but since they seem keen on getting Marinette everywhere and make her important to the detriments of other characters with big potentials just because she's the protagonist, I don't think it will happen any time soon.

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    • Chi of Darkness wrote:
      Yeah, but since they seem keen on getting Marinette everywhere and make her important to the detriments of other characters with big potentials just because she's the protagonist, I don't think it will happen any time soon.

      I kind of disagree that this is what's happening, that somehow making her important is a detriment to other characters. Adrien has plenty of potential and screentime, but his potential isn't being utilised because the show refuses to challenge him - it has nothing to do with her. Marinette being used to select the other heroes makes sense from a narrative view as it gives her a greater tie to the main plot whilst also providing some much needed emotional weight to the story that she is currently lacking in comparison to Adrien. It suggests that she is being groomed for position of the next Guardian, which is an interesting direction for her - not only because it makes protecting and handling all future crises her responsibility but also because she has now put her friends into the conflict herself, in that she's united her own band of heroes.

      I wouldn't mind some Chat spotlight, but even when he does get the majority of the focus in episodes it's never really used to develop his character. I just don't have faith that the writers will let Adrien make mistakes so that he can rise above them. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong, but right now due to that lack of faith I'm not that excited for Chat-centric episodes. 

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    • A FANDOM user
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